Grasa, are your roots (root scions, I guess) dug from your garden soil just prior to grafting?

I've only tried root grafting of feijoa previously and it ended in failure.  I don't remember what lead me to give it a try but I remembered doing some searching online and finding that camellia are sometimes root grafted.  Since then I learned from a friend who grafted feijoa onto a seedling plant and then, after growing planted the plant with the union well below the soil surface and tying a wire around the stem below the graft union, encouraging the top to form roots.  Feijoa are sometimes challenging or very challenging to root so this is a method to get around that problem.  Since feijoa can sucker, I guess that is the reason for tying the wire around the stem.  The same might be true of the fig rootstock suckering, I suppose.

George, regarding alignment of the cambium layer, I've seen others use bark grafting methods where the scion was slipped under neat the bark similar to what Grasa is doing for roots and it works fine.  I think that since the bark is lifted up the entire gap between the wood and the bark acts as part of the vascular system.  In my chestnut rind bark grafts (see some photos at http://www.chestnuts.us/gallery.htm if you wish), one side of the scion is matched up with the stock's cambium layer but the other side of the scion is under the flap of bark.  Both sides of the scion form a union (signs of some unions are still visible today nearly eight years after grafting and becoming quite large, 6" or more in diameter).  So I think it's reliable to prepare the wedged root and slip it below the bark.  It's certainly appears to be working for Grasa.

James, I will give my views of the potential advantages even though you didn't ask me directly.  Some varieties of various species are known to tolerate wet soils or cold soils better than others and some seem more efficient at providing vigor while some will dwarf a plant.  I see all of these as being reasons why root grafting can provide benefits for some varieties of figs that might be grown in less than ideal conditions or, perhaps, a variety of low vigor.  I do not see a disadvantage of the union being planted below the depth of the soil as the grower will have a plant whose stock is facing conditions no worse than if it was rooted on its own roots but still getting the benefit of the grafted roots that are perceived to have some particular benefits.  This method probably has no long-term benefit over conventional grafting but a person may not have a rooted cutting or tree of the desired rootstock at the same time as when they obtain the scion they wish to grow.  I imagine I can dig up many roots from my LSU Purple for grafting tomorrow, if I wanted.  I recently purchased some potted trees at Home Depot primarily for the purpose of grafting to get faster production from my desired varieties.  I believe root grafting won't produce fruit as quickly but is a lower cost option.

I am not understanding the out come. I like the work done and think very good job, but once the real roots come out of scion it will feed from them. With this it will be roots from it's true scion with no advantage or disadvantage. My point is, your not changing the make up of the tree. I like that your are experimenting and documenting with pictures, from this we all learn.



luke

The only advantage I see is that some cuttings refuse to root, and with Grasa's method, she gives the cutting a chance to survive with a root bringing moisture and nutrients to it.  I think no matter which fig the roots come from, the cutting will produce the figs of it's own variety.  I'm not a rocket scientist for sure, but we do have this vineyard, and also grafted citrus and roses.  Any shoots coming from below the graft are considered suckers, and will take nourishment from the desired variety.  Root stock is usually pretty aggressive.  Not sure if a root on a fig would do the same as grafted grapes, roses and citrus.  Grasa will let us know, I'm confident of that:-))
Suzi

Remember when I was given a "leaf cutting"? I was also given many roots... I planted them, it was warm outside.... they never sprouted anything, my leaf cutting died also.  Those things don't work.
Roots cannot by nature grow bark, leaves... So, in my own lay mind, I am with Suzi, I don't think the root  grafted will not alter the variety, or it should not.  I just want them to grow stronger and survive out cold and rain. I just came back from the outside.. the ground is frozen several inches deep, and my Fig Tree is happy as always. So is the several small trees I made from airlayers.  If I can make the new varieties grow half as good, I am satisfied. Thanks for all your comments. I like challenges and and love my figs.

I am pretty sure LSU Purple is the RKN resistant fig.

I don't think I have any doubts the tree will come true to the scion wood and not the roots.  My concern was the root grafting method seems to have more room for problems than traditional grafting methods.  As I see there are three potential issues which are negated in a graft union being above the soil line.

• Since the union is below ground, the cutting has the opportunity to produce it's own roots.  We already know the advantages for grafting onto a desired rootstock.  What happens if/when the cutting produces it's own roots?  Do you begin to/completely lose the potential for vigorous growth the rootstock would have provided you?
• When the tree produces volunteers, how does one know which variety it is?
• I'm sorry, I'm taking cold/flu meds (but I'm not sick) and they make me loopy.  I can't remember what I was going to type here.  When I do, I'll fill it in.

@ James.
Jack and Suzi both touched on some of the reasons why I thought this was a good idea.

Here are the reasons I"m trying it:
1) I'm hoping the well established roots will give a lowly cutting a "jump start". No worrying about delicate roots forming and possibly failing.
2) I'm thinking/hoping we ought to be able to do the root graft, pot it directly into your soil of choice, and water it in a more "normal" fashion (remains to be tested).
3) I have plenty of good roots available. More so than available trees to graft onto.
4) Gives me another (maybe more solid?) option for starting all of the cuttings that I have. 

As far as long term benefits such as a more vigorous root stock? I'm thinking this is where traditional grafting will continue to be more beneficial. Although Jack did make a good point. The roots that were grafted on should continue to carry whatever characteristics it had from the parent tree. In spite of the fact that the cuttings will, no doubt, form roots of its own eventually.

For example, if I were going to graft Black Ischia in hopes of it doing better on a more vigorous rootstock, I wouldn't do the root graft. I'd want it to depend entirely on the rootstock without forming any of its own roots. Just some of my thoughts....

This reply is just a continuation of my last post really.

I remembered one more reason why I like this idea of root grafting. You should be able to use a much smaller piece of scionwood and still get good, if not great, results. Many of the grafts I've done on rootsocks outdoors have had only one or two nodes. That's all that's needed since the scion is being fed by the rootstock. I'm thinking something similar may apply here. Maybe to a lesser degree but that remains to be proven yet.

Grasa. I hope you don't mind but I was planning to link this thread to the other one I started that's similar to this.

Bill, you're pretty darn smart! LOL, I just came here to post the same thing.  Tonight I grafted a portion of my Lebanese Red stick, using just one bud and did my first root graft of a fig.  I'm hoping it has better results when I tried root grafting feijoa a few years ago.  I also used a cleft graft to graft on another portion of the stick onto a potted Improved Brown Turkey and then used the final two bud portion of the same stick to root in the new bag method using Dip n Grow diluted 5x.

Axier, I've thought that the cutting might form roots later on but in cases where we are working with a variety that has low vigor, I'm not sure that they will be in greater number than the grafted roots.  In natural conditions, we see branches of a tree which can become dominant and I believe we "might" see stronger roots continuing to have dominance over the roots from the variety being grafted onto (the cutting).  That is a theory I have, anyways, and it would be interesting to test this much further.  Still, I think grafting onto an existing plant of rootstock is best but that plant is not always at hand.  I dug up roots at 11PM last night to try the root grafting.  Much easier to procure some roots than a rootstock plant, especially at that time of night. ;)

@Harvey. As the saying goes. Great minds think alike, right?  I must admit though. I've been called many things but "smart" isn't usually one of them. Not unless it's followed by that little three letter word - "a##". LOL!

I think it was a good idea to wrap the entire piece with the Parafilm. Should give the small cutting the best chance for making it. Should also greatly reduce the possibility of any mold trying to grow on it.

Now Harvey. I really do hate being the first person to say anything but I know others will be thinking it also. Just in case you're not already aware of it, that root looks like it has a little RKN living in it. I hate being the bearer of bad news but it really does look like it to me. Anyone else notice that?

Yes, I noticed that, but think it might be something else.  RKN is mostly a problem in sandy soils, I thought, and my soil is quite heavy.  The root came from a Panche tree that is quite vigorous.  I thought about digging around for some more but it was cold and dark at 11pm! ;)

Ground is frozen here!  I had many wood chips as mulch, but my chickens are scratching those chips. I tried getting more roots out there but cannot dig in that hard soil. My tree is so 'dead asleep'.

WOW!!!!!  Some amazing work!  It's fun to see several fig forum members following a similar thought pattern.  This is great.  Thank you for your working and adding to the body of the knowledge on this forum.  Inspiring effort.

I'm wondering what the success rate is with root grafting. I just watched a video of someone root grafting a gooseberry using the cleft graft method. I tried it myself in hopes that I might have more success with rooting more difficult cuttings.

Reviving this old thread hoping to hear some updates on how this turned out