petea
Registered:1253548000 Posts: 96
Posted 1268798397
Reply with quote
#1
Luckily this was with my fist test cutting. All was going great. I had it in the clear cup and then all of a sudden the leaves started to droop and eventually dropped. Overwatering I suspect. Is there any hope of salvaging this cutting? The leaves are off and i replanted into a new cup with fresh perlite and vermiculite and put it in the bins Jon uses. I hope it makes it. Any thoughts? Pete
__________________ Pete
Allentown, PA
Zone 6
Dieseler
Registered:1215735852 Posts: 8,252
Posted 1268835867
Reply with quote
#2
As of now what does the root system look like , white, tan , mostly all dark ?
petea
Registered:1253548000 Posts: 96
Posted 1268836554
Reply with quote
#3
Martin, all 3 gets darker as you get to the bottom. These are also the biggest ones. The cutting itself looks fine, not mushy at all. Pete
__________________ Pete
Allentown, PA
Zone 6
satellitehead
Registered:1257988353 Posts: 3,687
Posted 1268839552
Reply with quote
#4
I keep my mix almost completely dry, for what it's worth. If the cup has so much water in it that it feels "heavy" or even has any significant weight to it, then you're probably overwatering, and can/will suffocate or kill the roots. Condensation on the side of the cup is normal, but if you can see your potting material stuck to the side of the cup completely wet, you're probably overwatering. I've gotten to the point where I'm using a much chunkier, looser mixture (lots of Perlite, no vermiculite, with a little half-scoop of non-soil, non-slow-release-fertilizer potting mix), which leaves me watering every 3-4 days, but the water - for the most part - runs right through the mix.
I attached two pictures to try to demonstrate what I think is "proper watering". The clear cup, this is just before I watered. There is no condensation on the sides of the cup. The material is not "clearly wet", and it is not sticking to the inside of the cup. The lack of condensation, and lightness of the cup (it feels almost empty) is my indicator that the potting material is not wet enough.
The orange cup, you will notice that there is condensation, but no actual "clearly wet" material inside the cup. None of the material is sticking to the inside of the cup. The roots are happy. This cup was watered the night prior to taking this photo.
Attached Images
orangecup.jpg (174.43 KB, 80 views)
clearcup.jpg (169.22 KB, 77 views)
__________________ Jason
Atlanta/Grant Park area - z8
Dieseler
Registered:1215735852 Posts: 8,252
Posted 1268845370
Reply with quote
#5
Hi Petea, roots will tan thats ok long as there not getting real dark . If there darker towards bottom of cup its my guess that is area where its the wettest and or staying wet. Leaves sometimes fall as well and eventually grow back as the root system increases . My experience in past with some is upper part of plant (leaves) gets too much of a head start before bottom part of plant (root system) and they drop. Long as your roots continue and not get really dark and turn mushy on you plant should get more in balance in time. As roots come out there white as they age more they turn tan but not real dark as in almost black. If they are turning real dark day by day then you probably overwatered them as young tender roots cannot uptake much water and will suffocate themselves (drown). Also another possible scenario if you took the plants out of bin too fast with out slowly assmilateing them to dryer air, leaves will fall just by touching there stem. There are exceptions ive ran across though but not many by taking off dome or out of bin all at once. My thoughts are replanting in another cup without disturbing its roots and with your mix that drains well and is just to the point where its just barely moist may help it. Just my experiences i have had . Let us know in time what happens.
gorgi
Registered:1188888396 Posts: 2,864
Posted 1268847893
Reply with quote
#6
I went through that experience. Leaves suddenly "droop" and eventually the whole (rooted) twig dies off! On a close examination (in my case), I had noticed that the twig rotted somewhere between the roots and the leaves, thereby "breaking" the pluming connection. I did manage to salvage a very FEW by "upping" the soil, together with a (vented) dome. Others do cut off the (bottom) part of the rotting twig and re-plant the still-good top-part. In both cases, one hopes that there is still enough energy left in the wood? (which sadly, most often, usually is not the case). In my past post-analysis, when rub/squeeze-ing the mid section - the dark mushy bark just came off.
Another (very unlikely) cause for "drooping" leaves, is when they are "begging" for water [very easy to determine by just looking at the soil]. I agree with you that "over-watering" is the real culprit here... Good luck...
__________________ George, NJ_z7a.
nelson20vt
Registered:1259864353 Posts: 1,847
Posted 1268919428
Reply with quote
#7
Gorgi I too have been having thi issue for a while now where the cutting rots between the roots & leafs any idea what would cause this? here is a pic of my Marseilles vs Black that rotted that way.
Attached Images
SAM_0069.JPG (419.88 KB, 69 views)
__________________ Mississauga, ON, Canada Z5B/6A
pitangadiego
Moderator
Registered:1188871011 Posts: 5,447
Posted 1268920854
Reply with quote
#8
When they rot in the middle, is the problem at or near the soil line, or some place between the root and the soil line in the middle of the soil/potting mix? Might make a difference in trying to identify the cause.
__________________ Encanto Farms Nursery
http://encantofarms.com
http://figs4fun.com
http://webebananas.com
"pitangadiego" everywhere
nelson20vt
Registered:1259864353 Posts: 1,847
Posted 1268921364
Reply with quote
#9
Jon I would say between roots and soil line but closer to the soil line, atleast thats the problem I have had.
__________________ Mississauga, ON, Canada Z5B/6A
petea
Registered:1253548000 Posts: 96
Posted 1268921960
Reply with quote
#10
Have you had mold spores apear in top of the soil mediums? I did, and this was right before all of this started happening
__________________ Pete
Allentown, PA
Zone 6
nelson20vt
Registered:1259864353 Posts: 1,847
Posted 1268922311
Reply with quote
#11
Pete out of all my cuttings that rotted this way I never noticed any mold on the soil line. Only after I noticed leafs droop and then inspect the cutting when I would run my thumb on the bark It would peel right off just below the soil line mark.
__________________ Mississauga, ON, Canada Z5B/6A
petea
Registered:1253548000 Posts: 96
Posted 1268924336
Reply with quote
#12
yeah mine had little white balls of fuzz all on top of the soil
__________________ Pete
Allentown, PA
Zone 6
gorgi
Registered:1188888396 Posts: 2,864
Posted 1268944744
Reply with quote
#13
Nelson, Thanks for capturing the perfect picture. I see good green (leaves [-or where they used to be]) at one end, and roots on the other, with a bad (rotten) bark-break somewhere in between. That is EXACLY what I meant. Once a good-doing twig; it suddenly goes kaput...The only "living" tissue of a twig is from just under the bark-out, and once that rots, the root/leaf (plumbing) connection in broken.
As to what causes it, my prime-suspect is overwatering, (not sure?) possibly combined with a less draining medium, lack or air circulation and even not enough light? (all encourage mold).
Any nasty "fungus gnats" larvea present may also cause damage (for mold to settle-in). [Very notorius to invade a GH/inside-home environment]
In my case, it does this not happen very often, but often enough for me to notice. Unless, the twig is a "precious" one, now I do not even bother to salvage it (not worth my effort).
Pete, No, in my case, I did notice any obvious mold signs on the surface (e.g., that tell-tale white fluffy stuff). By any chance, did you use some potting meduim containing any not-so-ready compost? [fungus gnats do love that stuff].
__________________ George, NJ_z7a.
nelson20vt
Registered:1259864353 Posts: 1,847
Posted 1268948179
Reply with quote
#14
Gorgi I lost atleast 10 cuttings this year this way, I made sure I prewet the medium first and used allot of perlite in the mix and was usually 3-4 when I checked with the moisture meter. However I did have all the ones that died domed for about 3 weeks unless the condensation from the cups made the mix too wet or it the moisture in the cup was way too high not sure.
__________________ Mississauga, ON, Canada Z5B/6A
svanessa
Registered:1189292564 Posts: 905
Posted 1268949100
Reply with quote
#15
Don't know if this will help but what little water I give my new trees I keep away from the cuttings themselves. I usually put the water down the side of the bottle, keeping the cutting itself dry. I only give them a splash at best, 1-2 tablespoons a week unless they beg for more. ;-) So far, so good. Sue
__________________ Sue
Zone 9B, 1946'
Ramona, CA
San Diego County
paully22
Registered:1195324538 Posts: 2,719
Posted 1268962317
Reply with quote
#16
Nelson, I feel sorry for you. Can I cheer you up with a Col de Dame Noir & AdrinA or some variants of good quality if my spare cuttings root successfully. No promises but I can put your name down if the spares makes it.
nelson20vt
Registered:1259864353 Posts: 1,847
Posted 1268995839
Reply with quote
#17
Paully that would be great and best of luck with those cuttings.
__________________ Mississauga, ON, Canada Z5B/6A
paully22
Registered:1195324538 Posts: 2,719
Posted 1269009704
Reply with quote
#18
Nelson. Will keep you posted. So far CCDN is very promising.
Dieseler
Registered:1215735852 Posts: 8,252
Posted 1269010466
Reply with quote
#19
Hey Paully Can I cheer you up with a Col de Dame Noir & AdrinA or some variants of good quality . I like that in ya! I could use some cheering up.... No no just funning i have enough plants for this season. I could not help myself Paully when i read that and its very nice of you to help him out.
nelson20vt
Registered:1259864353 Posts: 1,847
Posted 1269010786
Reply with quote
#20
Thanks Paul will keep my fingers crossed. Its True Martin, Paul really is a great genuine guy and has helped me out allot and im very thankfull for that.
__________________ Mississauga, ON, Canada Z5B/6A
satellitehead
Registered:1257988353 Posts: 3,687
Posted 1269049295
Reply with quote
#21
Quote:
Originally Posted by nelson20vt Paul really is a great genuine guy and has helped me out allot and im very thankfull for that.
Ditto on that one.
__________________ Jason
Atlanta/Grant Park area - z8
paully22
Registered:1195324538 Posts: 2,719
Posted 1269062558
Reply with quote
#22
Martin, Nel, Jason -- Likewise lots of fig friends have helped me with my collection either in kind or with info. I would not be where I am if not for all the help. Thanks to all who shared so willingly.