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Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > Rooting in water vs over watering ?
 
 


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Taverna78

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
How can a fig root in water and grow yet if it's rooted in say smag moss and potted it can die from too much water?
figpig_66

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Its because it is smuthered. No air access. In water it is still getting air.
This is what i think is happening. I have no luck at all in water. Never rooted. But it didnt rot either
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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
If you're considering rooting in water, keep in mind the roots are more fragile and will have a higher rate of failure once moved to a potting mix/soil.
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Taverna78

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Oh no I have a almost foolproof way to root cuttings but I have a problem not understanding how I could overwater a cutting in a pot. I don't believe there's breathable oxygen for a plant in water?
Taverna78

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taverna78
Oh no I have a almost foolproof way to root cuttings but I have a problem not understanding how I could overwater a cutting in a pot. I don't believe there's breathable oxygen for a plant in water?
Taverna78

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Frank you are from Italia? What part ?
Yeehova

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
I rooted a Desert King in water last year. It took longer than other methods and it seemed like I had to change the water all the time. I think that a mixture like coco coir that allows air and water to the roots and which is also resistant to rooting its the easy to go.
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Taverna78

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
I understand the difference between the two methods and how the separate methods work water vs media rooting. My initial question was how can you overwater and kill a rooted cutting that was rooted in media and potted yet you can root and grow a fig cutting in water? It makes no sense
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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
I have no answer, but I think your question is valid.  I'm also hoping someone can explain this conundrum.
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Taverna78

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonCentralTexas
I have no answer, but I think your question is valid.  I'm also hoping someone can explain this conundrum.




Me too. It's just mind boggling. And if someone has the answer maybe they'd have an answer to if I think ive overwatered a cutting and isn't looking good is there a way to bring it back before it dies?
hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Water does not hold much oxygen and what it can is used rapidly by bacteria in the potting mix. It is a funny concept, for instance watering a cutting in perlite 3x a week will kill the roots, while 3x a day will not. Forget to water for one day and the plant may die though. The oxygen either needs to be replaced by air or fresh water for the roots to remain healthy.
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jdsfrance

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Hi Taverna78,
Sounds crazy, but still it is real life.

One thing is, while rooting in water, I had to change the water every two or three days or the cuttings would look dirty and mushy and would probably have rotten - but I didn't allow the status changing to rot.
In dirt, once the water is in the soil, you can't change it. It could be that the dirt itself will start to rot and contaminate the cutting.
I don't have any better explanation .

Now a good experience would be to fill a bottle with dirt, add water , and keep the bottle full of water with a cutting in it, and see what happens ...
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hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Pics of the cutting in question would help. At least describe the container, potting mix, temperature, lighting etc.
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Taverna78

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
Water does not hold much oxygen and what it can is used rapidly by bacteria in the potting mix. It is a funny concept, for instance watering a cutting in perlite 3x a week will kill the roots, while 3x a day will not. Forget to water for one day and the plant may die though. The oxygen either needs to be replaced by air or fresh water for the roots to remain healthy.


Ok so going off your perlite statement I have most of my cuttings in 100% perlite and some with 50/50 perlite vermiculite. The ones in pure perlite are not doing so well (sad cause those were very expensive) and the ones in the mix are doing ok some better then others. So should I be watering 100% perlite cuttings with small roots every day being in a plastic storage box in 20oz cups and cup kids with storage box lid and heat mat?
Taverna78

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
Pics of the cutting in question would help. At least describe the container, potting mix, temperature, lighting etc.


100% humidity. 70-78F degree. Few cups 100% perlite. Few cups 50/50 per/verm. Tree 100% perlite. Heat mat that is 10degree above room temp inch below the storage box. 2 120w frosted blue tip plant grow lamps on for 12 hrs a day and heat mat comes on at night when lights go off to keep humidity.

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hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
The initial stage, in the humidity bin (or with a cup on top) uses air as a supply of oxygen. So you should have used pre-moistened perlite, or watered one time and then not again because they will not dry out in high humidity.

Once you start watering though, it might be wise to follow Rich's directions and treat them as hydroponic plants- "Dutch Buckets" as he briefly described to me watering at least once a day. Perlite is a finicky media, it dries from the top down and holds very little water compared to others, so using it alone does not work very well to let air in between waterings.
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Taverna78

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
The initial stage, in the humidity bin (or with a cup on top) uses air as a supply of oxygen. So you should have used pre-moistened perlite, or watered one time and then not again because they will not dry out in high humidity.

Once you start watering though, it might be wise to follow Rich's directions and treat them as hydroponic plants- "Dutch Buckets" as he briefly described to me watering at least once a day. Perlite is a finicky media, it dries from the top down and holds very little water compared to others, so using it alone does not work very well to let air in between waterings.


Or instead of going down the hydroponic route (I just can't see that working this far into it) would it be wise to gently remove them from perlite and repot in a good potting soil?
hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
That is one way to do it. I think people have had good success floating the perlite away with water to avoid root damage. In that case you will use moist potting mix with added perlite, 50/50 usually, and slowly introduce the plants that have roots to lower humidity. Wait until the containers are very light, nearly dry, until you water again and then continue. They will use more water as they grow more leaves and roots and dry the mix faster.
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Taverna78

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
That is one way to do it. I think people have had good success floating the perlite away with water to avoid root damage. In that case you will use moist potting mix with added perlite, 50/50 usually, and slowly introduce the plants that have roots to lower humidity. Wait until the containers are very light, nearly dry, until you water again and then continue. They will use more water as they grow more leaves and roots and dry the mix faster.


Can you suggest a easily found media to mix 50/50 with perlite? Preferably something fungus gnats won't like. Got a few already
hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
I use Promix MP Organik or sometimes BX. Promix HP can be used straight out of the bag because it has much more perlite already. I also used coco coir last year with 25% Growstones (a recycled glass product like perlite), it was a little trickier to fertilize but worked well.
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Taverna78

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
I use Promix MP Organik or sometimes BX. Promix HP can be used straight out of the bag because it has much more perlite already. I also used coco coir last year with 25% Growstones (a recycled glass product like perlite), it was a little trickier to fertilize but worked well.


Wow I guess i never realized there is so much media. What happened to dirt ha! Can these be found at a big box store?
hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
I have seen Promix HP at Lowes before.
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hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
It is a seasonal item though so you probably want to call around.
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DonCentralTexas

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Taverna,

I also root in 100% perlite.  From your pictures i can see plenty of condensation which to me indicates your humidity is too high.

I water with diluted Foliage Pro after i see roots.  I look through cup and if I see lots of water droplets I don't water, but usually water every couple days, but note, I personally stopped putting the lid on because I was having so many problems transitioning them from high to low humidity, never failed that I would lose all leaves and stress over the cutting til the leaves sprouted back.

With that said, Yes I believe the humidity bin can grow the fastest.  I'm not trying to be confusing, everyone's mileage may vary, and I agree with hoosierbanana "Rich's method" has seemed to help lots of people.  
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Taverna78

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonCentralTexas
Taverna,

I also root in 100% perlite.  From your pictures i can see plenty of condensation which to me indicates your humidity is too high.

I water with diluted Foliage Pro after i see roots.  I look through cup and if I see lots of water droplets I don't water, but usually water every couple days, but note, I personally stopped putting the lid on because I was having so many problems transitioning them from high to low humidity, never failed that I would lose all leaves and stress over the cutting til the leaves sprouted back.

With that said, Yes I believe the humidity bin can grow the fastest.  I'm not trying to be confusing, everyone's mileage may vary, and I agree with hoosierbanana "Rich's method" has seemed to help lots of people.  


I may of describes my delimma incorrectly. I actually ROOTED the cuttings in smag moss in a humidity bin. Then took the rooted cuttings and put some in perlite vermiculite 50/50 into a peat pot then put perlite below and above the peat pot. and some in pure perlite. So being that the cuttings are already rooted should I get them out of perlite and into regular potting soil. Or leave in perlite and just continue watering them now on a daily basis with the cups removed off the top but leaving the lid on the humidity bin?
Also I believe the water you are seeing is because I sprayed with a spray bottle before the pictures. It's normally not that wet but there are still little water on inside of cups
DonCentralTexas

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
As my wife would say "stupid semantics", she's an English teacher.  

Ok, I see.  IMO I wouldn't pot the rooted cuttings up until I see significant roots, branching roots, and some top growth, I would leave them in the perlite cups until that time.

Then I would "pot them up" ( I usually go to gallon containers from cup phase) into a potting mixture of at least 1/2 perlite (from said cup).  Like Hoosierbanana suggested Pro Mix BX is highly rated for it's consistency of giving good results.  Lots of others have their favorite soil mix, for example I use pine bark fines, very cheap and readily available here, but you'll get lots of different answers as to which mix is preferred.

Whatever you do make sure the mix drains well.  Personally, I would rather water more often with a porous mix than water less and take a chance with rot.  

People are going to get mad at me, but I start with perlite cups, I skip the whole place in baggie/whatever method.  I do have losses, but most of the time it's after the pot up stage.  Just be sure to be gentle with the roots, they will stick to the sides of the cups, and gently place media around the roots.

I'm currently trialing a even simplier method (I don't have results yet so try at your own risk).  Into 1/2 gallon Root pouch add Pro-Mix + Perlite wet, add cutting, place on heat pad, don't let completely dry out, wait.  That's it.  That way I'll avoid pot up death since roots won't be disturbed.

Good Luck
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Taverna78

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonCentralTexas
As my wife would say "stupid semantics", she's an English teacher.  

Ok, I see.  IMO I wouldn't pot the rooted cuttings up until I see significant roots, branching roots, and some top growth, I would leave them in the perlite cups until that time.

Then I would "pot them up" ( I usually go to gallon containers from cup phase) into a potting mixture of at least 1/2 perlite (from said cup).  Like Hoosierbanana suggested Pro Mix BX is highly rated for it's consistency of giving good results.  Lots of others have their favorite soil mix, for example I use pine bark fines, very cheap and readily available here, but you'll get lots of different answers as to which mix is preferred.

Whatever you do make sure the mix drains well.  Personally, I would rather water more often with a porous mix than water less and take a chance with rot.  

People are going to get mad at me, but I start with perlite cups, I skip the whole place in baggie/whatever method.  I do have losses, but most of the time it's after the pot up stage.  Just be sure to be gentle with the roots, they will stick to the sides of the cups, and gently place media around the roots.

I'm currently trialing a even simplier method (I don't have results yet so try at your own risk).  Into 1/2 gallon Root pouch add Pro-Mix + Perlite wet, add cutting, place on heat pad, don't let completely dry out, wait.  That's it.  That way I'll avoid pot up death since roots won't be disturbed.

Good Luck


Wow this stuff gets intense! More or less the only reason I'm using perlite is majority because fungus gnats won't nest in it. I ask heard that peoe do grow in it as well. Looks like I need to stop at Home Depot I the way home!
DonCentralTexas

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
One can grow in perlite, often greenhouse tomatoes are grown this way....but they are watered (fertigated) several times a day.  It's hydroponics in a nut shell.

Your right, I haven't seen any fungus gnats with perlite.  I personally like it, but as I mentioned it's the pot up from cups to gallons where I would experience problems, so I'm trying to figure out how to avoid the cup to gallons pot up to begin with.
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m5allen

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
This year, for the first time, I am rooting cuttings in water, just to try it out.  I am anxious to see how it goes. 
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Taverna78

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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonCentralTexas
One can grow in perlite, often greenhouse tomatoes are grown this way....but they are watered (fertigated) several times a day.  It's hydroponics in a nut shell.

Your right, I haven't seen any fungus gnats with perlite.  I personally like it, but as I mentioned it's the pot up from cups to gallons where I would experience problems, so I'm trying to figure out how to avoid the cup to gallons pot up to begin with.



Try peat pots. Then you won't disturb the roots or plant at all when transferring from cups. That's how I have mine. Cutting in peat pot inside 20oz clear cup. Once I see roots I remove the plant still in the peat pot and replant the whole thing. Peat pots disintegrate quickly
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