Thanks Toronto Jo,it was seeing your big sticks in bottles that finally convinced me about bigger cups lol.When you look at a 4 node cutting I've learnt that 4/2 does not = 2 fig trees lol,sometimes 4/2= 0 fig trees.Johnny K,looks like you got it Figuered out alright,nice goin,now you are gonna have to find space for all those __________________ Haroon,Birmingham UK,Europe,USDA zone 8