Thanks a lot Pete! That is some very valuable information..Will try some of these Mixes. Thank You,for taking the time to post this .....:)

John at Almost Eden emailed their potting mix recipe.  Would it be appropriate to paste it here?  Maybe I should ask John first.  Every plant I got from them was outstanding.  Thanks for the efforts here.  

Frank,
You're welcome and thanks for commenting.
When I first started growing figs I trialed Al Tapla's posted recipes and used them successfully. I've tried other recipes, but have found that the modified 5-1-1 has been the best overall performer, combining the benefits of 5-1-1 and the Gritty Mix.


Charlie,
You're welcome and thanks for commenting.
I've purchased several small fig trees from Almost Eden and they used a large portion of sand in their mix. Please post the recipe, it's completely on topic and will be appreciated, especially if its used to grow fig trees.
 

Potting Soil mixture.

This based on 1/3 yard tractor scoop:

4 scoops pine bark mulch, fine-ground

1   3.5 cu. Ft. bale peat moss

1 scoop of Hadite

½ scoop sand

6 lb 18-6-12 Osmocote  8-9 mo.

4 lb 14-14-14 Osmocote 3-4 mo.

4 lb 0-46-0

12 lb dolomitic lime (brown pellets)

2 lb Mag-trace elements

2 lb wetting granules

  We add extra hadite for cactus mix, as we use it.  Perlite could be used instead.

When I feed it is with Osmocote 14-14-14, no burn, slow-release, but seldom fall feed, as do not want tender top groth in winter freezes.   Hadite is the stuff cinder blocks are made from, used for aeration.

Thank You & Good Growing,

John McMillian

Almost Eden

Kelby,
Thanks for the reply.
That ratio is ~;
Nursery Mix  3.5-1-1      17.5% - 65% - 17.5% (pine bark mulch - peat - perlite)

I don't have any more info than published by manufacturers.
I dumped out approximately 2 cubic yards of used 5-1-1-1 mix out of containers at the beginning of this past season. It was in use for 2 years and all still in good condition, with only a loss of some of the fines and peat (to decay and leaching). There was minimal signs of compaction of the mix. These 2 year old trees that were pulled from their buckets were root bound or almost root bound after only 2 years in the 5 gallon buckets. At the end of this season, 3 years of use, the mix is still not compacted, but all the 1 year and older trees have to be root pruned.
.
IMO, the trees would require root pruning long before the mix was decayed and compacted. My guess would be 3 - 5 years service life of a 5-1-1-1 mix.
 


Charlie,
Thanks for posting the recipe.
Almost Eden's ratio is ~;
AE mix 4-1-1-1/2              60% - 16% - 16% - 8% (pine bark mulch - peat - hadite - sand)

This based on 1/3 yard tractor scoop:

4 scoops pine bark mulch, fine-ground

1   3.5 cu. Ft. bale peat moss

1 scoop of Hadite

½ scoop sand

Bob C,
Thanks for commenting.
You've harassed your way onto my subscription list for next year ; )
This year has poor pickings due to extreme die back...
What's your current mix and ratios?

A 3.5 Cu Ft bale expands to ~ 7 Cu Ft. I usually place the additives in the "Peat" portion and that's the reason for the final ratios...

I stand corrected, thanks.

As for me, I can't get pine bark fines and anything commercial is too expensive.  I order 3-7 cu yards of large pine bark chunks (PBC) and shovel that into a pot until it's about 1/3 full depending on how deep I want the new plant.  The name (PBC) is deceptive because there's lots of mechanical breakage so there's everything from dust to 3x7" pieces.  2 years ago I scored dozens of free 5 - 40 gal pots and enough 7 gal pots that I used the 7 gals for almost everything to evaluate and 10 - 30 gals for some of the higher end stuff.  This year it was dust to 2x2x1" chunks.  Much more fine stuff than last year.

I make a mix: 64% peat moss or Pro-mix HP or both, 12% Napa floor dry, 8% each of worm castings, cow manure, Espoma Tomato Tone.  Those are very approximate numbers.  Nothing is measured and sometimes things are substituted or added. 

I put a 1" layer of mix in the pot on top of the 1/3 full pine bark chunks.  I alternate PBC and mix probably about 3:1 by volume until the plant is situated and the pot is almost full.  If it's Spring I put in some osmocote and cover that with a layer of PBC.  I always bury as many nodes as practical in case a freeze destroys the upper part of the plant.   This is for up potting established plants.  To pot recently rooted cuttings I use 90% Promix HP, 5% PBC and 5% mix with some osmocote on top.

Last year I up potted almost everything from 1 gal to 7 gal.  This year I ordered extra PBC to cover my inground Hardy Chicago and cover the mudway from my back porch to the open ground.

The reason I didn't post this before was that the last 2 years have been so bleak that I can't promise that this is a good way of doing things.  One plant grows to 6' in 2 months with a nice, thick stem and the one next to it has a few thin branches that hardly grow at all.  Neither bear good fruit.  I mostly blame the weather but I can't be sure the soil isn't part of the problem.  Hopefully next year the weather will be great and I can evaluate the soil more accurately.

Pete

In post # 12 you state that Peat is high porosity, and perlite is in group No.2, aerating. Now, Pro-mix hp refers to high porosity, and that is because the formula calls for more perlite in the mix than the Pro-mix bx I believe it is called. So my question is, if more peat means Porosity for you, and more Perlite means aeration, why do they call it Pro-mix HP if it has more perlite?

Thanks

Rafael

I use a modified version of Al's 5-1-1 and wrote an article on it a while back:

http://www.threefoldfarm.org/blog/making-your-own-potting-mix

I've seen tremendous results with this used in conjunction with a drip irrigation system and a bit of fertigation. I've also really liked using Root Pouch pots, though I haven't done real serious comparisons in terms of the results achieved versus plastic pots. I'll have to keep an eye on this thread as I've been looking for a mix that has the qualities of my current one but can be made even more inexpensively (ideally with locally sourced ingredients).

Interesting that Bill's Figs uses 100% mushroom soil. We've used 100% mushroom soil in our vegetable beds and have seen great results with it, but I wasn't sure whether it would drain well enough in pots. I imagine it holds up pretty well if he's been using it.

Bob C,
Thanks for the reply and the detailed info.
I've never done this but, a small wood chipper could be used to reduce the large chunks to make uniform sized Bark Mulch for the potting mix.



Rafael,
There is a bit of confusion with the technical term "soil porosity" and the adjective porous.
The smaller the mix particles, the larger the volume of air spaces, this also increases water holding ability, and increases soil porosity. Porous and porosity is also used to describe the larger air spaces and air volume held in soil which is partly where the confusion arises. When I first started making custom potting mixes over a decade ago, the terminology was confusing, so I made the distinction between Porous or quantity of small air spaces and Aerated or quantity of large air spaces, because its easier for me to visualize, one is fine grained and the other is large particles. Its the difference between a 32 oz. container of Peat and a 32 oz. container of Coarse Perlite, the peat container will hold much more water because it has higher soil porosity.

ProMix-HP is refering to the increased Aeration of the mix caused by the additional Perlite, but technically they are actually decreasing the soil porosity, by decreasing the quantity of small air spaces. Hope this helps.... Many other manufacturers make the actual distinction between soil porosity and aeration in their descriptions.



Tim,
Thanks for posting and sharing your mix recipe and results.
Congratulations and Good Luck with the new farm...
That website had been linked in another topic, and I had planned on liking it in this topic.
I use the same brands of Bark and Perlite but use the Premier or another Canadian brand Peat Moss
I'm also looking at locally available ingredient alternatives which is why I'm trialing a few Sand-Gravel Mixes (with a compost/mulch top layer) that were successful in the past.

Thanks Pete. We're very excited about the farm. Would love to have ya come down to talk soils and figs sometime!

This whole thread has me thinking about potting soils and the desired characteristics for trees. Here are the characteristics I could think of that are important to me, not necessarily in order of importance. I wonder if some of these characteristics might have to come at the expensive of another (ie - highly organic vs. longevity).

Inexpensive - Locally-available ingredients in large quantities
Long-lasting - Ideally 3ish years
Aerated and porous
Water-retention - High but without compromising aeration and porousity
Heavy - For stability, but not overly heavy (ability to move 15-25 gallon pot with just 1 person)
Highly organic
pH - 6.5-7

Ideally also:
Simple to mix - 5 or less ingredients in easy-to-mix proportions
Fungally dominated (been reading a lot about this lately...not sure if this is ideal or realistic though in a container environment)

Sand/gravel mixes are interesting to me for the fact that you can get them in such large quantities very inexpensively (which probably explains their use at larger nurseries). Will be excited to see how your experiments pan out. I appreciate your analytical nature, Pete.

Some of these like aeration and stability could also likely be influenced by the container as well.

Bob C,
Yes, the sand based mix would be used in 5 - 10 gallon containers, and the weight would be a benefit for top heavy trees. I've had very healthy root growth in a mix of mostly 1/2" crushed Gravel (Blue Stone Gravel) and Coarse Concrete sand.



Tim,
You're welcome.
I'd love to help, though my knowledge on soils and fig trees is at the hobbyist level.
As I mentioned in the OP most of the information is already posted on the Internet. The understanding of How and Why the ingredients are used in the mixes can lead to ingredients that can be substituted from locally available material. That's why I've done ingredient comparisons between the different mixes. The pH and Nutrients can be included at the final stages because there is an enormous amount of information and experience readily available. I'll be happy to PM results on the different sand mixes and ratios next season.

Since fertilizers and additives are more personalized I usually disregard the fertilizer portions of the mix recipes personally opting for a simple organic approach. IMO, good Compost, topsoil and or Peat seeded with Espoma-tone Organics and mineral additives can provide all the nutrients and beneficial soil microbes needed for healthy growth, even in completely inert mixes.

Containers definitely influence growth, Ive used spun landscape fabric as pot liners and it increases root branching, decreasing the quantity of large tap roots.

Regarding Pine Bark Fines, are these similar composted pine bark mulch or are they 'raw' and not broken down?   I called my local lumber yard, they sell 'fresh' pine bark mulch $12 a yard, wondering if it would work as in a mix or if I'd need to compost it first.

Zone5figger,
Partially composted is recommended, but the composting can be hastened by adding soil microbes like Mycorrhizae.
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg0212444023053.html

This is an excellent thread.   I am appreciative of the information being shared.   I am still learning about soil mixes and slowly experiment over time.  

I started off with a modified "gritty mix" of equal portions of coarse perlite, small pine bark bits and calcined clay.   I added dolomitic limestone to the mix, minimum 2 cups per 20 gallons of mix.   I've started adding more over the years based on reports from others. I found that this mix resulted in a good distribution of roots but did dry out rapidly. The well distributed root mass was really amazing, contrasting to the issue of the roots all ending up in the bottom of the pot.

I've since modified it by adding to the mix above about %25 well decomposed compost and some medium sized sand.   It seems to be better for my purposes.    I also have experimented with different fertilizers but think that is not within the scope of this thread and don't have any worthwhile conclusions at this time.

I've not studied container mixes in great depth, but have relied on suggested mixes (and supplement recommendations) from others.   I checked with some fig growers a few years ago and found that mixes were all over the map, yet were very satisfactory for each of the growers.  Here are a few. (dolomitic limestone is added to all)

1)  Gritty mix - already mentioned
2)  Gritty mix mixed 50:50 with ProMix or Ultimate Potting Mix
3)  2 parts pinebark (small size), 1 part composted cow manure, 1 part perlite and a handful of ground limestone.
4)  ProMix (or other quality potting mix) but adding more perlite
5)  Equal parts of a) composted "top soil"  b) calcined clay  c) coco bean hulls or shells d) coir
6)  mixture of top soil & compost, pine bark and perlite - equal proportions of these three
7) Composted manure, perlite and well composted compost - equal proportions
8)  Some folks were experimenting by substituting peat with coir (coconut fiber)
9)  Bill Muzychko's mix http://figs4fun.com/bills_figs.html   "The mix has lots of organics in it.   It has a lot of dirt in it"    Don't know the exact details, but his large container grown figs look great.

Some of the above have probably already been mentioned.   I just think that it is interesting that a diverse variety of mixes works well.   Aside from the basic soil mix, other important factors include:  watering schedule, fertilizer & mineral supplements, mycorrhizae, pot size, soil temp, sun exposure, etc.

Byron (Ingevald)

I encourage all my container grown figs to root into the ground.  They don't blow over, the container mix and size is less critical and root pruning is automatic  :)  Most do so in their second year without any special treatment. I pull up as much of the external roots as I can when bringing them in for the winter as a head start for next year.

Byron,
Thanks for commenting and sharing your info.
Yes, testing the potting mixes with actual growing plants results in real time information on their behavior under different locations and growing conditions. Fig growers use mixes that "are all over the map" but there are many common properties between all these mixes. Common variables among the different mixes can be repeated or substitutes can be made (found) for individual ingredients. IMO, the starting reference point should be the ingredient ratios of successful potting mixes. The ratio of particle size and material properties can lead to mixes with completely different ingredients, but the similar porosity, aeration and plant growing properties. 
for example, I've found that crushed gravel or pea gravel works as a good substitute for Perlite in a potting mix, it reduces compaction which increases aeration, but the drawback is a small additional weight to the mix. Calcined Clay is a good substitute for vermiculite, it has similar properties, again the only drawback is the small additional dry weight. One commonality between perennial (long lived) commercial potting mixes and successful custom mixes is pine bark mulch/fines. Comparisons of the ratios and particle sizes can lead to more locally available possible substitutions.



Bob C,
I've tried that procedure http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=4728896 and had commented on its success in another topic. When a well aerated potting mix (low peat or fines) is used and mulch is mounded above the drainage holes or the pot is partially buried, the roots will quickly grow out into the mounded mulch and ground usually within only a few months. Side holes near the bottom of the pot works best.

<Edit>

Hello, I am a new member and I joined in behalf of my father who's started growing fig trees just recently. I saw this thread and shared it to my dad, he said that it was a very useful information. Thanks for sharing this info Mister Ascpete we greatly appreciate it.

Thanks Pete, it is always better to have more information, no one mix is perfect, no matter what anyone says. Having more information help you know how to adjust for your climate and situation. I rely a lot on what Dennis posts because he have successfully grown and rooting a ton of fig trees in my area. It would be silly to think one person has the answer for everyone....

Vitalia Young,
Welcome to the Forum Community.
You're welcome. Thanks for commenting.
You may wish to start a new topic introducing yourself to the forum community.



Gloria,
You're welcome and thanks for commenting.
Although I agree that there is no "one perfect mix" due to the different ingredients, locations and personal preferences, decades of published research shows that there are quantitative properties (water and air retention) that can be applied to all growing mediums which can insure optimal growing conditions. The basic properties of proven mixes can be compared to similar available materials to achieve similar success with available materials. One example is the Nursery Industries' use of high % Peat Moss in annual mixes and high % Pine Bark fines in perennial mixes. They are used for cost and weight but also for the measured properties that they bring to the potting mix, water retention, air retention, etc.

One anecdote that I have personally used is that "the 5-1-1 or Gritty mix dries out too fast but is a good mix for growing figs", it has lower water retention and higher aeration. Automated irrigation could solve this problem which would allow it to be used almost anywhere, but most have opted to use more water retentive mixes or modify the recipes.
Another example of quantitative properties is the rooting of dormant fig cuttings. The two major variables that can determine success rates are temperature and humidity around the cutting. IMO, regardless of the dozens of procedures and techniques used when the temperature is maintained within a narrow optimal range (72* - 78*F) the humidity is also easily held at its optimal range (85% - 90% RH) and it results in the highest rooting success rates.

Welcome to the forum Vitalia, please start a thread as a new member with intro and you will get several more welcomes.

Waynea,
Thanks for commenting.
Please share your answer to the OP question.
What is your current potting mix recipe for Containers and or SIPs? 
Thanks.