Topics

Synonyms to fig varieties

Aaron, you sent me a PM with a link to this thread so I guess you wanted me to contribute.  So here it is: I think this is a poor use of limited time.  Two frustrating things about figs (besides birds) is giving an unknown a name and for inappropriately assigning synonym status to similar figs.  I see some synonyms listed above that I don't agree with.  Enough said.

Harvey, you are so right!  I noticed a fig in my excel spreadsheet that I didn't recognize.  I read all about it and realized I GAVE A SEEDLING A NAME!  ME!  Myself!  "Miss Ranillo," named because it germinated under a Tempranillo  wine grape vine canopy.  A little seedling that grew in a 3 gallon pot where I had spread a bunch of Black Mission seeds from figs purchased at the grocery store.  It's MY name for MY seedling, and it's now about 4" tall.  I put some Hardy Chicago cuttings into that pot when it looked like no seed would germinate.  One day a baby appeared.  It's not a shoot from HC.  It could be a Black Mission.  It will take years to find out.  But, Miss Ranillo is a temporary name.  I don't know what the answer is.  One of my unknowns is named Wild One.  There are no rules, and that is how all these synonyms come up.  No matter how much we would like it all straight, it's not a perfect world.

Suzi

I have to agree with Harvey. I can see what you are trying to do but I think it has more potential for adding to the confusion than clearing up the already confusing enough world of fig names. It's not too bad if each named fig had unique common names associated with it. The problem develops when common names are associated with more than 1 fig. When that fig is collected, mis labeled, and shared the confusion grows and corrupts. No one has done anything unethical or intentionally dishonest but the error still exists. Putting a list together like this would be like giving Justin Beber the keys to your Lamborgini. You know that sooner or later it will go bad. I trust Jon at Encanto. I use his list as my refrence.

I'd like to clarify one thing - Jon's list of synonyms is not accurate either, it's simply what he has found reported elsewhere, in most cases.  Jon's list shows Black Ischia has a synonym of Black Provence.  I wrote Jon about this before and he said he didn't attempt to confirm the accuracy of the snynonyms and didn't have time to do so or to make all corrections when pointed out.  Black Provence has a different leaf form and lacks the reddish petioles of Black Ischia (Ischia Black).  I bought Black Ischia from Richard Watts that was really Black Provence.  He told me on the phone that he say it was listed as a synonym for Black Ischia and renamed it that.  A lot of help that synonym designation was. NOT!

Keep on with what you are doing Aaron, we can challenge the stuff later. This is a good start, and maybe later we can have fruit and leaf pics to somewhat clarify some things here. Sometimes I see a particular fig and I want to match up my leaves with a posting/topic. Will be keepin an eye on this Topic. Good Luck !!!

Yikes Harvey. I think we're all doomed! Lol!

Yup Harvey it came to RW named as Black Provence and he changed its name this is just the tip of iceburg how things can get confused, couple that up with folks passing stuff around then showing pictures of said plant and another poster gets confused
and says "wait a minute that looks nothing like my well known cultivar.


Aaron types in part -  BTW, does any one know if Negretta, Petit Negrone or Negrone same fig?
Answer -Negretta is very different.

Also as a side note there is a fig given name "Unknown Negretta" by a member which is also very different and in my humble opinion should not have Negretta even in that name yet another instance when confusion can set in.

When most of us older folks are dead and buried and no one around to correct mistakes - enough said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bullet08
jon's db has most listed.


Imperfect as it is, that's what I'll stick with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyC
Aaron, you sent me a PM with a link to this thread so I guess you wanted me to contribute.  So here it is: I think this is a poor use of limited time.  Two frustrating things about figs (besides birds) is giving an unknown a name and for inappropriately assigning synonym status to similar figs.  I see some synonyms listed above that I don't agree with.  Enough said.
Harvey, that's exactly the reason I am trying to do this ;)
meanwhile I haven't touch any of the info here yet, just lining them up for editing, hoping collectively we can all put our knowledge together and FINE TUNE the final list. Thanks for the input, feel free to correct anything.

Longue d'Aout is also known as SLOCAN, MERDOSCOLA MELANZANA. I grow these
varieties and they are all LdA. Main crop is tasty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armando93223
Keep on with what you are doing Aaron, we can challenge the stuff later. This is a good start, and maybe later we can have fruit and leaf pics to somewhat clarify some things here. Sometimes I see a particular fig and I want to match up my leaves with a posting/topic. Will be keepin an eye on this Topic. Good Luck !!!
yes Armando, as I have mentioned earlier, the next steps to this process would be to add pictures of fruit and leaves , not just one of each mind you... the same tree can produce several shape leaves and fruit.

I don't believe in the UC Davis DNA test on figs.  And another person at UC Davis agrees with me.  There is a lot that I do not agree with at all.  Especially since some in question, I grow in NC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieseler
Yup Harvey it came to RW named as Black Provence and he changed its name this is just the tip of iceburg how things can get confused, couple that up with folks passing stuff around then showing pictures of said plant and another poster gets confused
and says "wait a minute that looks nothing like my well known cultivar.


Aaron types in part -  BTW, does any one know if Negretta, Petit Negrone or Negrone same fig?
Answer -Negretta is very different.

Also as a side note there is a fig given name "Unknown Negretta" by a member which is also very different and in my humble opinion should not have Negretta even in that name yet another instance when confusion can set in.

When most of us older folks are dead and buried and no one around to correct mistakes - enough said.
Martin, your (older generation's) opinions are very important to all of us. Any thing that will correct a mistake will be appreciated. please don't give me "enough said, enough said attitude. :) you are already giving valuable examples of how wrong things happened and how to stop them... keep up the good work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by snaglpus

I don't believe in the UC Davis DNA test on figs.  And another person at UC Davis agrees with me.  There is a lot that I do not agree with at all.  Especially since some in question, I grow in NC.

Dennis, we all should know by now that, a single fig tree will produce several types of leaves and slightly different shaped fruit... DNA test is foolproof, as long as it HAS been done. The question is did they run the test on all the figs in their list!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron4USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by snaglpus

I don't believe in the UC Davis DNA test on figs.  And another person at UC Davis agrees with me.  There is a lot that I do not agree with at all.  Especially since some in question, I grow in NC.

Dennis, we all should know by now that a single fig tree will produce several types of leaves and slightly different shaped fruit... DNA test is foolproof, as long as it HAS been done. The question is did they run the test on all the figs in their list!


The DNA test performed by USDA Davis is not even close to being foolproof.  They did a relatively small sample of genes compared to testing typically done in other species.  I am no geneticist but shared the report with a good geneticist friend of mine.

SoniSoni, Aaron,

Your above lists show somewhere:

BLACK MADEIRA FIG IN PORTUGUES IS BREBA PRETA

This does not seem to be correct
Instead I would say:

Black Madeira is synonym to Figo Preto - its Portuguese name in the Madeira Islands
and Violeta in continental Portugal

BEBERA PRETA is a totally different cultivar

Where are you Nelson ?

Francisco

LDA and Figo Preto are two different figs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoniSoni

I've been jotting down synoyms when ever I see them mentioned.  IDK how accurate these are but here it is and IDK how to better organize them.

UCD # 0445 = Calabrese Long

Adriatic - Lamperia

Afgan A - Caucasus 3

Archipel,  Malcoms Super Giant, Drap Dor, and Encanto Brown Turkey

BLACK MADEIRA FIG IN PORTUGUES IS BREBA PRETA

Brown Turkey, CA Brown Turkey, Walker, Braun Turkey, Black Jack and Blue Giant Aubique Noire, Negro        

*** California Brown Turkey, aka San Piero or Black Genoa...??

'Brunswick' ('Magnolia, Vashon Violet

Largo, Brown Naples, Common Blue, English Brown Turkey

Brunswick, Rattlesnake, Capitola Long, Doree and Red Italian, Magnolia?

Celeste (aka Malta, Celestial, Conant, Sugar Fig, and Tennessee Mountain Fig)

Calvert-

Col de Dame – Maho -

Cosenza- Chiapetta

Deanna, Orphan, UCR 278-128 and Algerian Watts

Delmatie _ Stellaemon, Dokkar, LSU Everbearing, White Texas Everbearing, Kadota and Trojano

Dalmatia - Magnolia,Madonna

Genoa, White Genoa, Harvey Adriatic and Genoa'Genoa'

Green Ischia-  Verte, (is not Strwbery verte) Coeur - Verdale -

Improved Celeste- O'Rourke supported in the notes, LSU Ag Center,

Italian 258 - Italian 320

Jurupa, Excel?  Gulbun?

Kadota,White Endich, Florentine, Honey, Dattato

Latarulla (not Laterolla) Latarulla is same as Italian Honey Black Mountain fig

Lemon,aka Marseilles,  Dokkar, LSU Everbearing, White Texas Everbearing?

Longue D'Aout/ -Figo Preto Fig

Magnolia- Madonna, Dalmatia

Marabout - UCR 291-4

Nero-  Blk Greek

Noire de Caromb, Cuello Dama Negro and Charles Allen, Douqueira Negra

Panachee - Italian 256, (per Celt) pinache is Bordisotte Blanca Rimada “ It's a stripped version of either col de dame or bourjasotte”.

Paradiso, Monstrueuse and Ischia Green, Genova, Genovese

Pastiliere - Rouge de Bordeaux

Purple Genca' ('Black Genoa'; 'Black Spanish'

Roeding - Capri A

Ronde de Bordeaux, Figue de Bordeaux, Précoce de Barcelone

Sal's, Dark No. 1 Portuguese and Abruzzi

San Joao - Roscoff

San Petro -Yougo 7

Santa Cruz Dark - Giant Amber

St Jeromes , Black Triana

Vista, Mission. VdB, Beers Black - Violette de Bordeaux ,

Verte –Calverte  some say maybe Ischia Green ,  But Verte becomes more yellow and not a tight eye

Violette de Sollies-Black of Bourjasotte, Burjassot Negre, Solliès, , Bourdissot, Negro Largo,

      Brogiotto  Nero, Parisienne, , Negro Largo (Espagne)

White marseilles – Lemon.

White San Pedro - Italian 372

Aaron,

This is what I learn/noted from the forum
Ma Si Yi = Masui Dauphine
Bu Lan Rui = brunswick
Jin Ao Fen = orphan

I hope this will help you with the list

Norhayati

http://figs4fun.com/Varieties.html

http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/tax_site_acc.pl?DAV%20Ficus%20carica

The first link fits the criteria of what you are wishing to accomplish but not all varieties have pictures.

The second link has unverified synonyms (USDA) 

Hope I didn't waste your precious time of recreating Jon's Database, please don't send me PM's of just a link to your thread.  I can read just fine and if I had wished to participate in it before hand I would have, just because you view me as an active member does not mean I appreciate your spam and self promotion.  Good luck with your database.

Quote:
Hope I didn't waste your precious time of recreating Jon's Database, please don't send me PM's of just a link to your thread.  I can read just fine and if I had wished to participate in it before hand I would have, just because you view me as an active member does not mean I appreciate your spam and self promotion.  Good luck with your database.  


ditto               

ditto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron4USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by snaglpus

I don't believe in the UC Davis DNA test on figs.  And another person at UC Davis agrees with me.  There is a lot that I do not agree with at all.  Especially since some in question, I grow in NC.

Dennis, we all should know by now that a single fig tree will produce several types of leaves and slightly different shaped fruit... DNA test is foolproof, as long as it HAS been done. The question is did they run the test on all the figs in their list!


The DNA test performed by USDA Davis is not even close to being foolproof.  They did a relatively small sample of genes compared to testing typically done in other species.  I am no geneticist but shared the report with a good geneticist friend of mine.
we are coming back to my point, if it's done correctly, it is foolproof.

my my... we have some grumpies here.
Anyway,if you have nothing good to say at least please let me continue working on this. 

I'm sure newer generations will appreciate and enjoy participating to this challenging project.
We will, dissect/re-write and re-organize the OLD list which (as several oldies admit) is not entirely correct and is confusing.
Thank you for all who keep providing data to work on and being so positive about it ;)

This is not to promote myself (after all, i am not a dealer of cuttings nor trees).
I want to create an accurate and updated list of detailed database for future figsters.

there is no such a thing as "foolproof". given enough chance and time, someone will prove himself or herself to be a fool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chivas
http://figs4fun.com/Varieties.html

http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/tax_site_acc.pl?DAV%20Ficus%20carica

The first link fits the criteria of what you are wishing to accomplish but not all varieties have pictures.

The second link has unverified synonyms (USDA) 

Hope I didn't waste your precious time of recreating Jon's Database, please don't send me PM's of just a link to your thread.  I can read just fine and if I had wished to participate in it before hand I would have, just because you view me as an active member does not mean I appreciate your spam and self promotion.  Good luck with your database.
Chivas, sorry you look at this entire thing as of my own promotion? Although the information you provided is very valuable, it also is very old,complex and confusing and multilayered. What I want to create is much simpler and easy to read (no guessing) type of chart-like database. One may turn it into a poster or download in PC for better use. The re-done version will be what's latest all about FIGs information at you fingertips :)

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