Updated on my VdB=negronne issue

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Quackmaster

Registered:1370361410
Posts: 769

Posted 1376660398	Reply with quote #1

This was a tree labeled negronne sourced from Dalton Durio, he swore that negronne and VdB are the same This one had VdB on one side and negronne on the other side of the tag and it is sourced from James Robin, I still never seen fruit from either to make the real comparison, I've been waiting to see if the tree in the top pic would ever display leaves with the long finger like lobes that I associate with VdB but it hasn't. Only time will tell. __________________ Ryan Zone 9a SeLa, wish list:

bullet08

Registered:1284496248
Posts: 6,920

Posted 1376660759	Reply with quote #2

VdB and Negronne are either same or very similar figs. looking at the pix you posted, the bottom one looks just like my VdB/Negronne. the top one doesn't look like mine at all. __________________ Pete Durham, NC Zone 7b "don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill "the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher *** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. * * and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...***

tylerj

Registered:1347291507
Posts: 646

Posted 1376661440	Reply with quote #3

I'd wait to see how that top one develops. I thought I had a similar issue with a Ronde de Bordeaux plant I received because its leaves were nothing like I've seen in pictures. Within a month the long narrow finger leaves started forming though. I think they refer to the leaves in your pic as juvenile leaves. __________________ London, Ontario zone 6a Wish List: Martinenca Rimada, Genovese Nero AF, Galicia Negra, Brooklyn White

Quackmaster

Registered:1370361410
Posts: 769

Posted 1376661515	Reply with quote #4

That's what I figured Pete, thats how most of them look. When I went to Durio's I went through all his "negronne" trees and picked out 3 of them, one for me, one for my dad, and one for my sister and they all looked like the one in the top pic. So I don't know if he knows something I don't or if something got mixed up on his end. Just the little I know dalton I'm willing to bet he wouldn't do that on purpose. He brought us way to the back of te nursery where he keeps all his young trees and starts, and that's how they were on the table. __________________ Ryan Zone 9a SeLa, wish list:

jake

Registered:1352891024
Posts: 313

Posted 1376661659	Reply with quote #5

I have a VDB with both types of leaves. One type on one limb and the other type on another limb. __________________ Jake Zone 8B Crystal clear Gulf of Mexico,White sand beaches,Citrus trees, Large hurricanes,and tornadoes. Wish list: Scott's Yellow ( now have cuttings, Spring will tell)

Quackmaster

Registered:1370361410
Posts: 769

Posted 1376662008	Reply with quote #6

Yea guys I will defenitly give it more time, I will be amazed if the figs are identical from two trees that look so different. __________________ Ryan Zone 9a SeLa, wish list:

bullet08

Registered:1284496248
Posts: 6,920

Posted 1376662654	Reply with quote #7

i heard dalton is reliable... more time might show more mature leaves. __________________ Pete Durham, NC Zone 7b "don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill "the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher *** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. * * and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...***

Quackmaster

Registered:1370361410
Posts: 769

Posted 1376663807	Reply with quote #8

Your right, that's all I've ever heard. I've only met him once and he is a real stand up guy. And also I hope no one gets the wrong idea because I sure wasn't trying to talk bad about him if that's what it sounded like, he has a lot of great trees and loves what he does. I'm sure I'm just jumping the gun with my little tree. __________________ Ryan Zone 9a SeLa, wish list:

rafaelissimmo

Registered:1335639347
Posts: 1,473

Posted 1376666170	Reply with quote #9

A photo of my "Negronne" with figlets aplenty. Source: Hollybrook orchards. Looks like the VdB. Attached Images photo.JPG (52.80 KB, 129 views) __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

cis4elk

Registered:1347840383
Posts: 1,718

Posted 1376672613	Reply with quote #10

I started 2 VdB cuttings last winter/spring. One had single lobe leaves like that for awhile, but by time it got to about what seems like the size of the one in your pic it started putting out leaves more like the other. Now they are the same. Some of the leaf shapes in this thread may have some interest to you. http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Doesnt-look-like...-Petit-Negri...-but-is-it-5930769?highlight=petite __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

Quackmaster

Registered:1370361410
Posts: 769

Posted 1376672752	Reply with quote #11

Thanks, I'll just keep watching it grow, lol __________________ Ryan Zone 9a SeLa, wish list:

Quackmaster

Registered:1370361410
Posts: 769

Posted 1376681150	Reply with quote #12

Oh boy, I might be down to only the one with the big leaves, we had really heavy rains for a few days and the ground is saturated, now that the sun is out it looks like it is cooking the VdB with the long lobes. Oh well, can't win them all. __________________ Ryan Zone 9a SeLa, wish list:

tylerj

Registered:1347291507
Posts: 646

Posted 1376687678	Reply with quote #13

my VdB leaves wilt in full sun.... It does much better in location with afternoon shade. __________________ London, Ontario zone 6a Wish List: Martinenca Rimada, Genovese Nero AF, Galicia Negra, Brooklyn White

Quackmaster

Registered:1370361410
Posts: 769

Posted 1376687991	Reply with quote #14

It gets a little shade in the morning but after 12 noon it is in the sun for the rest of the day. It never really wilted until after we had all that rain for a couple days. I made some shade for it though, hopefully it will be ok. __________________ Ryan Zone 9a SeLa, wish list:

pitangadiego

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Posts: 5,447

Posted 1376693873	Reply with quote #15

The one on top doesn't look like VdB or Negronne. However, My Vista OL ("odd leaf") had leaves lie that for about 3 years before beginning to look "normal". __________________ Encanto Farms Nursery http://encantofarms.com http://figs4fun.com http://webebananas.com "pitangadiego" everywhere

Quackmaster

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Posts: 769

Posted 1376696721	Reply with quote #16

Quote: Originally Posted by pitangadiego The one on top doesn't look like VdB or Negronne. However, My Vista OL ("odd leaf") had leaves lie that for about 3 years before beginning to look "normal". Jon, when you say vista that is black mission, correct? That might be the same as the tree I bought from top Tropicals, it was labeled black mission but it has some really long lobes just like most VdB's. __________________ Ryan Zone 9a SeLa, wish list:

Darkman

Registered:1325731541
Posts: 629

Posted 1376706126	Reply with quote #17

My young VDB has all finger leaves. It is less than a year old potted from cutting. Thanks for the afternon shade tip. I now know where I will plant it. __________________ Charles in Pensacola AKA Darkman Zone 8b/9a Winter of 09/10 low 19 Winter of 10/11 low 19 Winter of 11/12 low 29 Winter of 12/13 low 31 Winter of 13/14 low 19

Grasa

Registered:1347083219
Posts: 1,819

Posted 1376710003	Reply with quote #18

just when I joined this forum, I won VdB cuttings from a generous member of this forum. I made them root and their baby leaves are identical to yours.(mulberry/heart style and in a few month the long finger leaves developed and no move of those young leaves. I enjoy my little tree very much. I am allowing one figlet to grow just to see what it would be like. __________________ Grasa Seattle, WA

MichaelTucson

Registered:1333340598
Posts: 1,216

Posted 1376710771	Reply with quote #19

I have a VDB (aka Negronne) that made both of those kinds of leaves this year. It's definitely VDB and from a reliable source. Last year it made only the deeply cut "finger-like" leaves, but this year it had those and the single-lobed leaves on the same tree. I think there's just a lot of variability to leaf morphology. Maybe it's triggered by culture/environment variable. (p.s. Aubique Petite also makes multiple kinds of leaves, often on the same plant limb-by-limb, and from what I've read that is a common feature of Aubique Petit. Mine has done that for two years running). Mike central NY state, zone 5a __________________ Pauca sed matura.

Darkman

Registered:1325731541
Posts: 629

Posted 1376750025	Reply with quote #20

Does anyone think that the type of leaf produced might depend on the age/maturity of the plant where the cutting was sourced? __________________ Charles in Pensacola AKA Darkman Zone 8b/9a Winter of 09/10 low 19 Winter of 10/11 low 19 Winter of 11/12 low 29 Winter of 12/13 low 31 Winter of 13/14 low 19

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1376762427	Reply with quote #21

Ryan, There seems to be several different cultivars that have been named Violet de Bordeaux. From all accounts Negronne and VDB have been cross named for so long that the names have become interchangeable. I have a named Violet de bordeaux/Negronne from Edible landscaping (it came with a tag from a west coast nursery with both names). It has never produced single leaves (3 and mostly 5 lobed) and a sucker that it produced last year has only produced 5 lobed leaves this year (the first 4 emergent leaves the sucker ever produced last year were singles). Inline imageMike "MichaelTuscon" posted pictures of his Aubique Petite (in a topic about Petite Negri) that produces entire branches with single lobed leaves. From older posts this may possibly be the single lobed cultivar that you've posted. I would be curios to see pictures of the multi-lobed leaves when they develop (whether they resemble Petite Aubique or VDB/Negronne). Charles, IMO the source of the cuttings dictate the leaves produced, based on the cultivar that the source is replicating.

Quackmaster

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Posts: 769

Posted 1376762876	Reply with quote #22

Thanks Pete, and everyone else, when and if it produces leaves with the long lobes I will post it. __________________ Ryan Zone 9a SeLa, wish list:

scott_ga

Registered:1189222943
Posts: 302

Posted 1376790485	Reply with quote #23

I also have a Vdb/Negronne sourced from Edible Landscaping 2 branches have mostly 'mulberry' type leaves (these branches get less sun). The rest have the typical long fingers. I have 5 plants started this year from this fig; 3 have the long fingers, 2 have the mulberry leaf. they are all about a 18" high. I bet in time yours will produce the long fingered leaves. Scott __________________ Scott North Georgia Zone 7b

Quackmaster

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Posts: 769

Posted 1376834433	Reply with quote #24

Thanks all, the more feed back the less I'm worried about it __________________ Ryan Zone 9a SeLa, wish list:

Quackmaster

Registered:1370361410
Posts: 769

Posted 1468682499	Reply with quote #25

I answered on fb, I said right. Since I made this post I've come to realize that all the long fingered leaf trees can put out single lobed leaves. Ives seen the single lobes on vdb, negronne, nero 600m, aubique petite, vista, raspberry latte, etc, etc. __________________ Ryan Zone 9a SeLa, wish list:

Quackmaster

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Posts: 769

Posted 1468682587	Reply with quote #26

So with that said, the one on the right can be vdb but the one on the left looks to be too jagged around the edges, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. __________________ Ryan Zone 9a SeLa, wish list:

Quackmaster

Registered:1370361410
Posts: 769

Posted 1468682654	Reply with quote #27

Quote: Originally Posted by ThaiFig So to bump up an old thread, which one of these is VdB, left or right? I got every response imaginable on FB. Do you know, or are you trying to find out? __________________ Ryan Zone 9a SeLa, wish list:

SCfigFanatic

Registered:1450004954
Posts: 469

Posted 1468685016	Reply with quote #28

My vdb put out single lobe leaves when it was less than 2 years old. Now there are only long fingered leaves. I believe it is just part of the plant maturing. Doug __________________ South Carolina zone 7b-8

brianm

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Posts: 971

Posted 1468696094	Reply with quote #29

The one on the left is a tissue culture. The one in the right is typical VDB __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra,UC Davis Black Ischia, Maltese Raven

cis4elk

Registered:1347840383
Posts: 1,718

Posted 1468698574 · Edited	Reply with quote #30

I haven't seen leaves like the one on the left from my VdB type family of trees. The right yes. I think until you get ripe fruit to judge from the one on the left all bets are off. Imo I'm not saying it isn't, just saying it possibly isn't. __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

brianm

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Posts: 971

Posted 1468725232 · Edited	Reply with quote #31

First two pictures are typical VDB. Next two are tissue culture. Attached Images IMG_20160716_47541.jpg (84.57 KB, 37 views) IMG_20160716_54489.jpg (101.82 KB, 40 views) IMG_20160716_12431.jpg (65.10 KB, 35 views) IMG_20160716_4541.jpg (92.83 KB, 35 views) __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra,UC Davis Black Ischia, Maltese Raven

SuperMario1

Registered:1441853363
Posts: 441

Posted 1468791569 · Edited	Reply with quote #32

Brianm, Yours are probably 2 different strains. The left look like the Vista, which UCD confirmed was the same as a strain of "VDB" sourced from a reputable person which I nevertheless believe was mislabeled at some point and sold to many collectors as VDB. There is another strain called VDB that looks like the ones on the right, and may be the same fig as Nero 600M. The "Vista/UCD genetically analyzed VDB", and the other VDB floating around are 2 different varieties. I am unsure if there is a 3rd variety going by VDB; however, I do have a VDB that throws limbs with single-lobe grape like leaves and other limbs with the long fingers on them similar to the leaves on the right. I can give you cuttings from one of my "Vista" and from one of my other "VDB" that are not tissue cultures so you can see what I am talking about. Hit me up trade season if you want to see how the "Vista" will look like the one on the left and the other will look like the one on the right. They are easy rooters. :) __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra, Violetta, Violette de Sollies, Dan_la's Black Beauty 10, Craven's Craving, Most important: YOUR FAVORITE FIG. A lot of people put emphasis on popular/exotic cultivars, which is great because it highlights some of the better fig varieties; however, I am most interested in the figs our members love regardless of pedigree. Currently Growing: a bunch of varieties.

Figinfever

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Posts: 245

Posted 1468958114 · Edited	Reply with quote #33

Quote: Originally Posted by SuperMario1 ... I do have a VDB that throws limbs with single-lobe grape like leaves and other limbs with the long fingers on them similar to the leaves on the right... One of my tissue culture VdB looks like what you described. All the others are long finger leaves. I wonder if the difference is only in the leaves or if the figs taste different as well? Has anyone experienced eating figs from both and can answer one way or another? Attached Images image.jpeg (597.47 KB, 18 views) image.jpeg (763.58 KB, 20 views) image.jpeg (837.01 KB, 18 views) image.jpeg (834.76 KB, 19 views) image.jpeg (960.29 KB, 16 views) __________________ Dan, West Central FL 9a Wishlist- Great tasting dark or light figs with deep red interiors: White Madeira, Craven's Craving, Portugal Black Madeira, Sultani, Violeta, USDA Black Ischia, Dall'Osso, CdDB or CdDB-N

SuperMario1

Registered:1441853363
Posts: 441

Posted 1468972717	Reply with quote #34

I have tasted both and have not noticed a difference yet, but those were first year fruits. This will be year two for both. __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra, Violetta, Violette de Sollies, Dan_la's Black Beauty 10, Craven's Craving, Most important: YOUR FAVORITE FIG. A lot of people put emphasis on popular/exotic cultivars, which is great because it highlights some of the better fig varieties; however, I am most interested in the figs our members love regardless of pedigree. Currently Growing: a bunch of varieties.

SuperMario1

Registered:1441853363
Posts: 441

Posted 1469053543	Reply with quote #35

Edit: Apparently Nero 600M also throws some of the single lobed stems so it is likely that it is the same as the non-vista VDB. see thread: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/nero-600m-7033563 __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra, Violetta, Violette de Sollies, Dan_la's Black Beauty 10, Craven's Craving, Most important: YOUR FAVORITE FIG. A lot of people put emphasis on popular/exotic cultivars, which is great because it highlights some of the better fig varieties; however, I am most interested in the figs our members love regardless of pedigree. Currently Growing: a bunch of varieties.

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