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Jsavkov

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
I have over 30 varieties, and was told this is most likely a hardy Chicago, and this disorder is only on this tree and my Angelos dark, which I was told is very similar to a Hardy Chicago????? Is this whatever it is common in hardy Chicagos?
Thanks

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Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Hardy Chicago does not have this disorder,as you call,this Fig mosaic virus present on fruits also.
However there was a certain fig sold by a certain nursery ,which i had one,and it came under the name,Italian Black,and it was identical to Chicago Hardy,but diseased with this exactly disorder.
Got rid of it.
I suggest you do the same.
Jsavkov

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman2
Hardy Chicago does not have this disorder,as you call,this Fig mosaic virus present on fruits also.
However there was a certain fig sold by a certain nursery ,which i had one,and it came under the name,Italian Black,and it was identical to Chicago Hardy,but diseased with this exactly disorder.
Got rid of it.
I suggest you do the same.



A lot of my trees have FMV, these 2 trees are the only ones that show this on about 10% of the fruits, I have trees where the leaves look like phocomelia arms on a person totally warped and small very sick looking, but fruit is 100%, the leaves look great on these particular trees, but some fruit is nasty looking, could it be something else?
Thanks
Sas

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
I've grown figs mainly from cuttings but never saw any fruit on any of my trees like I see on yours today. From what I've seen so far, some varieties including nursery sold varieties might have FMV, which is exhibited in the deformation of leaves or slow growth, but not the fruit.
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Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
It is nothing else but FMV,
Mt Etna type figs when infected with FMV,it exibits it on ,leaves and fruits ,at the same time,or on one of the 2.
Sas:FMV,can show on leaves and fruits,it depend on cultivar and on the particular strain of Fig mosaic virus.

Edit note:The strain of FM disease,that show up on fruits is the most harmful,on fig tree.
There are situation when fig trees ,show leaf mottling and discolorations ,for reason other than Fig M V, namely stress or mites feeding on leaves.
But when you see fruits like the above,that is very serious and no doubt it is a harmful strain of FMV.
I urge anyone that have this problem,get rid of that plant,for the good of the fig tree itself ,and for the gardening community in general.

See if you can open this link: It is U Ca  Davis research

UC Pest Management Guidelines




http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVvPC8rhXyTIABAEnnIlQ;_ylu=X3oDMTBybGY3bmpvBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMyBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--/RV=2/RE=1471767362/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fipm.ucanr.edu%2fPMG%2fr261100611.html/RK=0/RS=EGdymrAgdZ.Gv918E7OLG5.S.r0-
figpig_66

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
I didn't know that fruit was affected by Fmv just the leaves. If you bliw the pic up it looks like something is growing on it.
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Jsavkov

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by figpig_66
I didn't know that fruit was affected by Fmv just the leaves. If you bliw the pic up it looks like something is growing on it.




I'm being told now by a very reliable sorce, its insect damage, makes a little more sense, if u blow up pic you see like chew out on the fig, cause I'm telling u no leaf problems at all, and the growth is extremely vigorous on both trees
hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
They are necrotic spots caused by FMV, or some other virus and/or a combo of several, notice there are ringspots.

If this other person identified an insect as the cause they would know the type of insect, what did they say it was? If they just said "insect damage" I would not count them as reliable when it comes to agronomy.

p.s. it has already been established through research that those spots are caused by FMV, so there is nothing for us as amateurs o even argue about! http://journals.tubitak.gov.tr/agriculture/issues/tar-09-33-5/tar-33-5-6-0807-20.pdf
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Jsavkov

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
They are necrotic spots caused by FMV, or some other virus and/or a combo of several, notice there are ringspots.

If this other person identified an insect as the cause they would know the type of insect, what did they say it was? If they just said "insect damage" I would not count them as reliable when it comes to agronomy.

p.s. it has already been established through research that those spots are caused by FMV, so there is nothing for us as amateurs o even argue about! http://journals.tubitak.gov.tr/agriculture/issues/tar-09-33-5/tar-33-5-6-0807-20.pdf


So it's only that bunch at the top of the tree, the other 50 or so Figs on the tree are perfect, do I just remove that section completely?
Thank
hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
The infected growth is not a danger to your other trees as long as the vector Aceria ficus is not present. You can wait and decide later if you'd like. Is this tree special to you in any way?
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Jsavkov

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
The infected growth is not a danger to your other trees as long as the vector Aceria ficus is not present. You can wait and decide later if you'd like. Is this tree special to you in any way?



I wouldn't know are they native to nj? This one not so much but the Angelos dark is! How do I check for these Fig mites?
hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
The mites only live on fig trees and cannot survive cold winters. They would come from another grower who has them. They are very, very small, to see them you need at least 30x magnification. There are cheap handheld microscopes or some that clip to a cellphone.

The mites cause symptoms when they infest trees that are making new leaves, pale spots and blotches form as the leaves expand. So if there are no pale spots on any trees you most likely do not have them.
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Jsavkov

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
The mites only live on fig trees and cannot survive cold winters. They would come from another grower who has them. They are very, very small, to see them you need at least 30x magnification. There are cheap handheld microscopes or some that clip to a cellphone.

The mites cause symptoms when they infest trees that are making new leaves, pale spots and blotches form as the leaves expand. So if there are no pale spots on any trees you most likely do not have them.


Here is the newest growth on both trees, what color are these mites? I looked at about a dozen leaves via 30x Jewelers loop, and saw a total of 3 little white bugs moving rather quickly, I used to breed snakes and when there was a mite problem, it would be thousands everywhere, and they were black

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Jsavkov

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
The mites only live on fig trees and cannot survive cold winters. They would come from another grower who has them. They are very, very small, to see them you need at least 30x magnification. There are cheap handheld microscopes or some that clip to a cellphone.

The mites cause symptoms when they infest trees that are making new leaves, pale spots and blotches form as the leaves expand. So if there are no pale spots on any trees you most likely do not have them.


Here's another pic

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pacifica

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman2
Hardy Chicago does not have this disorder,as you call,this Fig mosaic virus present on fruits also.
However there was a certain fig sold by a certain nursery ,which i had one,and it came under the name,Italian Black,and it was identical to Chicago Hardy,but diseased with this exactly disorder.
Got rid of it.
I suggest you do the same.


Hi Herman2,
I have one unknown fig tree (abt 2 and half years old, bush style, purple skin with reddish inside) looks like also has FMV problem as per image attached from member JSAVKOV (almost identical the same) and you suggested to him that it is better to get rid of it. Do you mean to remove the entire fruits or the entire fig tree ?  Is there any way not to remove the tree to kill this FMV issue that you can adv me to solve the problem and not to remove the entire tree ?

Your great help will be much appreciated.



















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Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
pacifica ,If your fig is not a rare very expensive variety,get rid of the tree,
if the tree is very rare and expensive cut it down to soil level in the Spring,and it might just grow a new much healthier,and will not show the FMV on the fruits anymore,only on leaves,here and there.
Sometimes it works and sometime it does not.
My Ischia Black,(10 years old)had a bad case of Fig disease,(on leaves only tho),and after was killed ,a couple of times by Winter cold,( being planted in ground), I have to  recognize,that the plant,is much healthier now.
Ischia Black is rare and ,makes delicious fruits,so i really did not have the heart to discard,and so I planted it a little farther from other trees i have.
So far so good,it is  4 foot tall this Summer,and have a dozen fruits ,plus it had a couple of Breba.Of course it will never be Malta Black,and make a hundred or more ripe fruits every each year.
So fig affected by FMV,do not have an abundant harvest,and that is a fact.

And one more thing: Do not buy fig trees during Summer,from climates where Acaria fici is present,and also ,make sure you buy dormant plants,from those climates,and only bare rooted ,,because ,acaria fici winter in potting soil at base of tree,and if you buy a potted tree from such climates,  next Summer,they will multiply in your garden,and spread the FMV,from the diseased tree to the rest of your trees.
By the end of Summer Season,all your trees will be infected,and next Winter the Acaria fici dies but your orchard is totally infected,and will stay that way.
Happy gardening
hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Justin that does look like fig bud mite spots, they are eriophyid mites and look like grubs, they move very slowly, they should be most abundant on the underside of the top leaves and buds. If white bugs you saw looked like spiders or typical mites then they were probably predatory mites, I saw lots of them when I had this problem. I have a 40x handheld microscope with a little led light and they were tough to make out well, just like squirmy elongated white to yellow grubby things.

The mites on that growth are all potential carriers of FMV and can spread symptoms to your other plants. I would spray all of your fig trees as soon as possible, the most effective miticide to use is called spiromesifen and can be purchased in small amounts on eBay as Forbid 4F, the usage rate is .6-1.2 ml. per gallon so it does not take much. It is a chemical pesticide but relatively safe, whether you eat the figs or not is up to you, there are other sprays you can try that are safer but they will not be as effective.
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Jsavkov

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosierbanana
Justin that does look like fig bud mite spots, they are eriophyid mites and look like grubs, they move very slowly, they should be most abundant on the underside of the top leaves and buds. If white bugs you saw looked like spiders or typical mites then they were probably predatory mites, I saw lots of them when I had this problem. I have a 40x handheld microscope with a little led light and they were tough to make out well, just like squirmy elongated white to yellow grubby things.

The mites on that growth are all potential carriers of FMV and can spread symptoms to your other plants. I would spray all of your fig trees as soon as possible, the most effective miticide to use is called spiromesifen and can be purchased in small amounts on eBay as Forbid 4F, the usage rate is .6-1.2 ml. per gallon so it does not take much. It is a chemical pesticide but relatively safe, whether you eat the figs or not is up to you, there are other sprays you can try that are safer but they will not be as effective.




Thanks man I'll get it now, and like I said I looked at over a dozen leaves and all I saw with my weiss 30x loop was fast moving white mitey/ arachnidy things and not many of them 3 on 1 leaf 1 or 2 on another and the rest looked clean, and they were very very small almost didn't see them Im talking microscopic small!
Again thanks for the help
ricky

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Are they look like this?


fig_mites1.jpg 

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pacifica

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herman2
pacifica ,If your fig is not a rare very expensive variety,get rid of the tree,
if the tree is very rare and expensive cut it down to soil level in the Spring,and it might just grow a new much healthier,and will not show the FMV on the fruits anymore,only on leaves,here and there.
Sometimes it works and sometime it does not.
My Ischia Black,(10 years old)had a bad case of Fig disease,(on leaves only tho),and after was killed ,a couple of times by Winter cold,( being planted in ground), I have to  recognize,that the plant,is much healthier now.
Ischia Black is rare and ,makes delicious fruits,so i really did not have the heart to discard,and so I planted it a little farther from other trees i have.
So far so good,it is  4 foot tall this Summer,and have a dozen fruits ,plus it had a couple of Breba.Of course it will never be Malta Black,and make a hundred or more ripe fruits every each year.
So fig affected by FMV,do not have an abundant harvest,and that is a fact.

And one more thing: Do not buy fig trees during Summer,from climates where Acaria fici is present,and also ,make sure you buy dormant plants,from those climates,and only bare rooted ,,because ,acaria fici winter in potting soil at base of tree,and if you buy a potted tree from such climates,  next Summer,they will multiply in your garden,and spread the FMV,from the diseased tree to the rest of your trees.
By the end of Summer Season,all your trees will be infected,and next Winter the Acaria fici dies but your orchard is totally infected,and will stay that way.
Happy gardening


Thanks very much Herman2 of your quick respond. 
This variety is unknown and not expensive. Since the leaves looks healthy like normal plus I live in Vancouver, B.C. of zone 8b , cold weather will be from Oct till early April with little snow in Fall etc. do you think that I should cut the tree by half by now then cut another half in Fall after dormant ?

Worst come to worse if I really need to remove the whole tree as mentioned, can I plant another fig tree in the same area as there is only a place that I can plant another fig tree there. What do you think ?
Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
First Check leaves for mites,if present:

Spray the plant ASAP with what ,Hosierbanana,is advising namely:

spiromesifen and can be purchased in small amounts on eBay as Forbid 4F:

In order to kill the existing mites off leaves.
Once the mites are killed,they will not go in the soil ,next Winter.
I am not sure if the mites will die,from Winter in zone 8,so your best bet is to kill them ASAP,and deny,them the chance to go in the soil around your trees.

If there is no mites,your healthy tree will stay healthy.
With mites ,i see problems.
Your best bet :kill the mites first if they are present.
Once the mites killed,you can take tree out and plant a healthy one in that spot.
hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 

Yes they look just like that Ricky, but harder to make out because young fig leaves are very hairy and the mites are only a fraction of the size of one hair. 

Justin, the population can go up and down rapidly based on weather, predators, plant growth and other things. This study goes into detail about their behavior on an abandoned orchard in Egypt if you would like to read more. http://www1.montpellier.inra.fr/CBGP/acarologia/export_pdf.php?id=139&typefile=pdf
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ricky

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Thanks for that Egypt documents, It seems that if you see lots of FMV leaves/figs after June/July, it is likely FMV mites existing as it peak cycle.

Another question is that, Those FMV mites move very slow, How can they transport them to other trees so fast? who is helping them? For Aphid , Ants love to transport them as spring time, then Adult aphids can fly to other flower plant for reproduction. 

For people who like  Spiromesifen, it is very powerful to kill mites, but  I am wondering that will it kill bee?, I tried Green XXX oil products, They are low power wasting your time, If you do not mind to apply them 3 to 5 times, then use them, VDB do not like them.
--- Spiromesifen is a tetronic acid insecticide developed in 2006 by Bayer and used primarily to fight mites and whiteflies. While highly toxic to fish and other non-target insects, acute toxicity from inhalation and skin contact is listed as low risk. Information on this chemical is a bit hard to find; checking datasheets from the regulatory bodies of the E.U. gives more details.

Anyway, I think that those mites are so small, smaller them young leaves hair, I am wondering anyone with good luck with those 60X click on microscope for Cellphone, Will it work?
click on microscope1.jpg 



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johnnyq627

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Geez you guys are really blowing this out or proportion I think.  I'm pretty sure Justin's source was me.  I'm pretty sure the Angelo's Dark came from me.  These type of fruit blemishes appear on some of my trees at times.  I do not believe it is the same as the referenced FMV issues that can show in fruit as this often occurs on some of my healthiest trees and then "scabs" over for the lack of better words, leading me to believe it is insect related and not the FMV affliction.  The fruit ripens just fine and to cut the tree down due to it is nonsense.  I believe it is insect related as I often see ants and other insects on the figs (could be coincidence and I'm by no means an insect expert to identify what the insects are).  I usually just leave the tree alone, but have also sprayed it with neem oil and it stops the issue, hence my assumption on insect damage. 


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Jsavkov

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyq627
Geez you guys are really blowing this out or proportion I think.  I'm pretty sure Justin's source was me.  I'm pretty sure the Angelo's Dark came from me.  These type of fruit blemishes appear on some of my trees at times.  I do not believe it is the same as the referenced FMV issues that can show in fruit as this often occurs on some of my healthiest trees and then "scabs" over for the lack of better words, leading me to believe it is insect related and not the FMV affliction.  The fruit ripens just fine and to cut the tree down due to it is nonsense.  I believe it is insect related as I often see ants and other insects on the figs (could be coincidence and I'm by no means an insect expert to identify what the insects are).  I usually just leave the tree alone, but have also sprayed it with neem oil and it stops the issue, hence my assumption on insect damage. 




Your 100% right Nick the more I look into it and speak to other growers, they say the same thing, one guy told me it's probably wasps, and it only happens to his my Etna types, which is what these two are, also there are little white sugar crystals on all the fruits, from what he says are likely puncture wounds from said insects but only the mt Etnas show bruising like this, cause like I said perfect leaves on all of them!
johnnyq627

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
It's a difficult subject as there are many different things that cause "spots" on fruit... insects, disease, mold, sunburn. This forum is also filled with people all over the country and world who have different pests and afflictions in their areas.


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