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jeffpas

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Reply with quote  #1 

I keep reading everywhere that fig trees need a full 8 hours of sunlight a day.

But that is clearly not the case with my figs.   Of the two I purchased the larger one is getting about 2 hours direct light and the smaller about 15 minutes.


Both have yellow, burnt edge leaves and the larger one displayed massive heat stroke today, blotching and burning on almost all of its leaves, in about 85 degree weather.   Its fruit is ripening but several are drooping even though not fully ripe, as if they are about to be aborted.   The tree is clearly under stress.    Moisture meter says they are fully wet but I can't trust the meter, so I added more water which seemed to help.

I moved both trees into the shade and I guess will leave them there for some time now.  I have to say this is a surprise.

 

  P1010676.JPG 

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jeffpas

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Reply with quote  #2 
The meter says it needs to be 'calibrated'.   How ridiculous is this?   If I knew what the ideal moistness was I wouldn't need a meter!  I guess I just have to kill a few plants until I get it "calibrated" right......
rcantor

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Reply with quote  #3 
As long as your mix drains properly a fig of that size will not be hurt by frequent watering.  Depending on your weather some people have to water 2x/day.  If the top inch or 2 is dry, water the plant.  Excess fertilizer will also burn the leaves.  If the soil mix stays saturated the leaves can also turn yellow.  If there's a drain hole you can judge the moisture level of the mix by sticking your finger in there.  If there's no drain hole then the mix is likely to be over saturated.
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jeffpas

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Reply with quote  #4 

There are a number of drain holes in both, but I'm forever defeated having plants by the 'yellow when overwatered, yellow when underwatered' phenomenon.   I have killed plants by overwatering before, though even though the meter said very wet it clearly needed water this time.

Surely the yellow browning, curling leaves and splotchiness is from too much sun, or not enough water?   

jeffpas

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Reply with quote  #5 

Oh no:

 

https://dengarden.com/gardening/Brown-Leaf-Tips-whats-wrong

 

".....unsightly brown at the very tips of the leaves or around the edges of the leaves, there are a few things that may be happening. The simplest explanation of this phenomenon is that you have been over-watering your plant...."

"

  • Yellow leaves caused by over watering will be a mosaic of both yellow and green throughout the leaf and the leaves will still be firmly attached to the plant.
  • Yellow leaves caused by under watering will be solid yellow and will fall of or detach with little to no effort.

"

 

I have both splotchy leaves firmly attached AND solid yellow leaves on the same plant, some that have fallen.

Ewwwkay then......

 

 

 

 

fignutty

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Reply with quote  #6 
Throw away the moisture meter. You can't depend on them. The problem is likely too much sun for the conditions present.

If your mix drains as well as it should then you can water every day in this heat. I'd say your plants are too dry and/or not rooted in well enough. That means regular watering is needed.


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RegencyLass

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Reply with quote  #7 
I have lots of houseplants and, like any potted plant, providing the correct amount of water is crucial to their survival. Too much and they die, too little and they die.  What works for me is I just poke my finger in the soil and if I can feel the soil slightly damp at about an inch deep, then it doesn't need watering.  If I don't feel any dampness, then I give the plant a good soaking. If the pot isn't partially buried in the ground, it's important to have a "plate" under the pot that holds about an inch of water to prevent all of the water from just running straight out and away from the pot before the roots even get a chance to soak any of the water up. 
 

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jeffpas

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Reply with quote  #8 

>> throw away the moisture meter >>

I may as well throw away the plant too.   Years of experience killing plants has proven my finger or my guesswork is not a reliable indicator and I need help this time.

These pots are very deep and belled on the bottom (see pic) at least 16" so a few inches down isn't going to tell much.    Which is why I bought the 17" probe.

I gave the plant a good soaking today even though the uncalibrated meter reads 10 wetness on a scale of 1-10.   There is drainage and no plate, though its hard to forget I just recently killed a hibiscus tree OUTSIDE by overwatering in the 90 degree heat, it died of root rot.  Trying to be smarter this time.

If it drops all its fruit by tomorrow, then I suppose I'll have an answer.

 

 

 

fignutty

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Reply with quote  #9 
Jeff:

I understand you are frustrated. But I don't think it's that complicated. It hasn't helped that you've started three posts on the same issue. That spreads out the relevant information. So I read all three posts again and find that these are newly up potted plants. That's important because that means the new media has few if any roots yet. That's going to read 10 on your meter even when the original rootball, where there are roots, is too dry.

So most likely the soil is too dry where there are roots even when the new soil is dripping wet. Get the media with roots wet once a day and your tree should be OK.

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jeffpas

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Reply with quote  #10 

Well I'm not frustrated, just that the plant is yellowing and dropping leaves and trying to discover and take appropriate action before its too late.   As I said earlier I recently had a Hibiscus tree die after 2 months effort due to a watering issue, in fact it was two, both died.    The new moisture meter I purchased and my post being efforts to help prevent a repeat.

I'm not sure why the forum is showing 3 threads on this same issue, I only opened one.     In fact I only see one thread in the forum when I look now(??) not sure why that would be the case.

The meter read 9 close to the plant and 10 (wettest) at the bottom of the pot, but the plant appears still to be needing water.  Three of the base leaves have yellowed completely and curled/browned as of today, around the lower portion of the trunk.  

I added, so we'll see how it goes.  It seems my own dumb luck I purchased a water meter that seems not to work.

 

 

 

 

 

Rewton

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Reply with quote  #11 
It would be helpful to know where you live and what potting mix you are using.  Oh, and yes, potting up in the peak of summer is usually not a good idea unless the roots are not disturbed.  However, I always disturb the roots when potting up i.e. I do some root pruning to keep root circling in the pot to a minimum.  If you don't do this it will likely cause issues later.
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fignutty

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Reply with quote  #12 
It's possible that your plant is too wet. But only if the media doesn't drain well or the pot isn't draining.
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jeffpas

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Reply with quote  #13 

I used a Menards black potting mix and mixed in some Perlite for drainage.   The pots are 30 gallon, quite tall with bell shaped bottoms.  Each one has about 6 holes in the bottom and a small layer of rocks.

Enough holes so that when I water it water drains out the holes and on to the porch.  

The yellowed leaves are all firmly attached, do not come off, if that is any help.   Some of the big leaves also have some light yellow spottiness.

Because the pot is so deep and flared at the bottom, I have always suspected the soil would not dry out fast.   This is why I've been afraid of overwatering since the beginning.

 

 

jeffpas

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Reply with quote  #14 

here's an updated picture with the spots

 

P1010678.JPG 


snaglpus

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Reply with quote  #15 
Your tree has the fig mosaic virus, aka FMV. Your fig is fine. All but one of my in the ground trees had FMV until I planted them in the ground. Some handle it better than others.

Welcome to the world of figs!

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jeffpas

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Reply with quote  #16 

Still not sure which direction to go in.   However what about the possiblity that the tree, having stood in the direct sun this afternoon, got hot roots with the black soil?    The pot itself was pretty warm before I moved it.

If that was the case, some kind of mulch might be advised to keep the heat off the soil.  I happen to have cedar mulch here.

However, if this its overwatering, that I imagine would be the last thing you would want to do.

 

It might be worth it to compare the picture from my first post in this thread, to the most recent one as there was a watering in between.

Did it improve, get worse, or remain the same?   To me the leaves seem to be pointing up more after watering, even though perhaps the spottiness increased?

Sheesh.

 

jeffpas

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Reply with quote  #17 

@snagplus, just read your post.   Wow, I just looked that up and apparently it seems to have just broken out with this.   The other fig has not yet been infected.   

Does it ever grow out of it?    I am reading it is spread by some kind of aphid so the likelihood it will spread to the other tree seems 100%.

Although would this cause the complete yellowing and browning of some leaves, also? 

rcantor

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Reply with quote  #18 
Mottling can also be a sign of micronutrient deficiency.  wait until the top gets somewhat dry and fertilize with something that has 11 or 13 nutrients.  Don't use a long acting fertilizer since you're near the end of the season.
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Tonycm

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Reply with quote  #19 
Jeff I wouldn't worry too much about the FMV, it goes along with growing figs. Try to keep it as simple as possible.
just make sure your trees have some fertilizer,
keep the soil moist,
give your trees as much sun as they can take without wilting.
With some practice you'll get the hang of it.
One thing you might want to consider is the shape of the pot. The top of the pot should be wider than the bottom or at least the same size. The reason for this is when you need to repot or root prune your tree it will be easier to slide it out if the top is wider than the bottom. The shape of the pots you have in the picture looks like it will be hard to remove the trees to do any maintenance on them.

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FigWhisperer

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Reply with quote  #20 
jeffpas,
"Cactus Mix" type of potting soil seems to be the best balance for figs, but you have to realize that this type of mix dry faster.
You might want to re-pot it and change the soil as much as you can without disturbing the roots too much, to improve drainage.
I don't see immediate threat that plant is in, once in a while, a yellow leaf here and there is very normal.
lastly, bell bottom pots will be problematic for future re-potting, the roots tend to grow across the walls of the pot the plant is in and if the neck of the pot is smaller in diameter than the base then polling the plant out of the pot will be close to impossible.

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jeffpas

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Reply with quote  #21 

Yes, very well aware of the bell bottom pots and their drawbacks.   However at 30 gallon I am never going to a larger pot, its already almost too big to be manageable.   The tree is going to be kept under 8 feet as it has to come indoors.    I don't ever plan to repot, so the only time I see it coming out, is after it is dead.

I hesitate to put the trees through more trauma now by repotting again with different soil, after they were just repotted.    I had cactus mix but had not heard anyone suggest this on the Web before now.    I had mixed with Perlite as I said for drainage.

The biggest challenge for me will be finding that precise amount of watering, as the symptoms, and death, appear virtually identical between overwatering and underwatering.  And I agree yes the moisture meter was a bust too as it came needing 'calibration'.    Unfortuantely it was the only one with a long enough probe sold for less than $300.00 (which given the plant was $50, is just out of league).

It seems to look like all figs carry Mosaic and it springs up in times of stress, sort of like a case of psoriasis.   A few leaves have curled up yellow and fallen off now, a few more have curled a bit but still there.   So far no figs dropped, continuing to guess blindly with the water as always hope it rides out.

 

 

Herman2

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Reply with quote  #22 
You do not plant a young plant in 30 gallon pot.
It is recipe for disaster.
Your plant needed to go in,a 5 gallon the most,this year.
Best luck to you
ricky

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Reply with quote  #23 
I think that your pot may be problem, When you water your fig tree, I am wondering how water reach bottom belly area where lots of white fresh roots there waiting for water.



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hoosierbanana

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Reply with quote  #24 
FMV symptoms do not suddenly appear, fig bud mite symptoms do though as their population increases during summer! Nutrient deficiencies do not cause randomly arranged chlorotic spots, but fig bud mites do!
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hoosierbanana

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Reply with quote  #25 
And the idea that all fig trees carry FMV is a sales tactic!
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jeffpas

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Reply with quote  #26 

>>>>

You do not plant a young plant in 30 gallon pot.
It is recipe for disaster.

>>>>

 

Okay, the only reasoning I can find online for not planting a tree in a large pot, is that there is not enough roots to suck up the moisture and allow the pot to dry out in between waterings.

So, in order for this statement above to be true, assuming the plant is 'in disaster', the answer would HAVE to be the plant soil is too moist, and that it is being overwatered.

Secondly..... removing it from the direct sun and putting it in the shade, would I assume slow the drying of the soil further, and make things worse.

This agrees with the moisture meter, so maybe we have an answer.

As far as all Fig trees carrying FMV, it seems to be a popular myth if it isn't true.    There's a chorus of people on garden sites repeating it.  The basic story goes, most figs have it, display it in times of stress, except those grown directly from seed who later become infected through insects anyway.

 

 

 

Herman2

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Reply with quote  #27 
Jeff:You are right in both conclusions,in post 27.
Edit note: I am not talking about the FMV discussion,but about the first 2 conclusions you arrived to.!
Best Regards
hoosierbanana

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Reply with quote  #28 
Fig bud mites are not insects, and they are the only thing that spreads FMV. Not one of those people who spoke on FMV ever checked their plants for fig bud mites when they decided on the cause, they are microscopic and cause symptoms similar to FMV. If you sit and think on it for a while you can understand why people can't tell the 2 apart. 
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hoosierbanana

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Reply with quote  #29 
Go ahead and get a 40x lighted handheld microscope and look at undersides of the smallest leaves an buds.
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ricky

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Reply with quote  #30 
Hi Hoosierbanana, I got few fig trees early spring from a fig collector, ALL Fig trees from his unheated green house or winter storage are full of sickness including FMV, I got rid of 2 trees, One of his outdoor fig tree grows well and fine without FMV, My question is  that, Does fig mite die in cold winter?, it seems to me that it die during winter.
Also, I isolate those fig trees at down wind, other side of my house 100FT away, I still find that FMV leaves recently on my 6 years old in ground fig tree, My point is that, It seems that it is easy for FMV mites to spread out.






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hoosierbanana

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Reply with quote  #31 
Ricky it is not so simple to say what temperature they are killed at, I read they do survive mild freezes in Japan. They can be spread from tree to tree on birds and other animals, the wind, and also hands, tools and clothing. 

Figs are mostly overlooked by researchers, much of the information from Universities is also flawed. Ignoring the vector of the disease as a factor is like keeping malaria patients in a swamp!

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Reply with quote  #32 
I would agree with what has been said above. Throw out the moisture meter they are useless.
Make sure your soil mix drains well and isn't containing too much peat.
Shape of pot matters and too big is an issue, it wicks water away from roots and when they reach it they enter a swamp and root rot occurs.
Stones in pot actually push away wetness up into the root zone.
If your trees get full sun all day they may get burnt by it sure, but make sure you use fertilizers that are very slow release to not burn the roots. Osmocote, worm castings, mushroom compost are good for top dressing. There are others I am sure. Be patient you will figure out a system! I water weekly when mild and every 4 days when hot but live in a mild place (85 degrees is hot) I use a watering can to not compress the soil and water until the water begins to run out of the drainage holes. On young trees I agree it's better to have a slightly root bound tree than one in a huge pot. If the pot feels light water then ;)

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