Effects of Caprification of Fig Flavor

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starch

Registered:1444492067
Posts: 123

Posted 1453763247	Reply with quote #1

Does caprification of figs affect the flavor of the fig? Other than flower pollination to produce seeds (which will change the texture of the fig), does the flavor change: become fuller, richer, produce more honey, etc.? I know there are many fruits whose flavor is enhanced by pollination (persimmons come to mind immediately). I am wondering about figs? __________________ Location: USDA Zone 9b / Sunset 13. Chandler, AZ Currently producing fruit and scions: Violette de Bordeaux, Panache, Black Mission, Black Jack, Smith, Col de Dame Gris, Marseilles Black VS, Red Lebanese (Bekaa) Small Trees / Currently rooting: lots Wish List: Ponte Tresa, Italian 258, Genovese Nero (not Rob's)

levar

Registered:1392366658
Posts: 195

Posted 1453766803	Reply with quote #2

Yes. Whether that's for the better is a matter of personal taste. __________________ Wishlist Figs: Fiaschetta lunga di Campagnola, Unk Pastiliere, Cajun Gold, Marangiana, Rigato del Salento, Black Ischia, St. Rita, Dottato d'Élia, Watt's Zingarella, Zidi, Macool, 187-25, Peter's Honey, Peloponnisiaka aspra sika, and Martinenca Rimada. Atemoya: Geffner

Smyfigs

Registered:1443660141
Posts: 1,658

Posted 1453771552 · Edited	Reply with quote #3

Theres probably some info on line about this--research. Good question! I would like to know also. __________________ Meg-Hardiness Zone 10a Looking for... Socorro Blk Wuhan Jolly Tiger Lamperia Preta Herschtetten St. Jean Black Ischia "The best way to show my gratitude is to accept everything, even my problems, with joy." ~ Mother Teresa "Do not pass by a man in need for you may be the hand of God to him." ~Proverbs 3:27~ "He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed, miracles that cannot be counted." ~Job 5:4

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1453771608 · Edited	Reply with quote #4

Yes, for some varieties by a lot, for some by a little. __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

levar

Registered:1392366658
Posts: 195

Posted 1453774770 · Edited	Reply with quote #5

Found it! Here's a side by side comparison done by user Lampo http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1287834093&postcount=6 Here's the whole thread: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/common-figs-and-pollination-7492161 There's also a thread around here somewhere in which Jon, the guy who runs F4F, said he preferred Black Madeira and VdB uncaprified in his area. I can't find it or I'd link to it. I've had a decent amount of both caprified and uncaprified figs, but I only know for sure that I've had Kadota both ways and I think it's really good in either state. Still, I'd like to try as many as possible. You're in AZ so you can probably ask someone to ship blastophaga to you and see what happens. But just keep in mind that even caprified figs in bad conditions (too rainy, too cold) will still produce lesser quality fruit. Quality relies so much on a combination of factors. __________________ Wishlist Figs: Fiaschetta lunga di Campagnola, Unk Pastiliere, Cajun Gold, Marangiana, Rigato del Salento, Black Ischia, St. Rita, Dottato d'Élia, Watt's Zingarella, Zidi, Macool, 187-25, Peter's Honey, Peloponnisiaka aspra sika, and Martinenca Rimada. Atemoya: Geffner

starch

Registered:1444492067
Posts: 123

Posted 1453779076	Reply with quote #6

Smyfigs: thanks! Greenfig: gotcha. It makes sense it would be cultivar depdendent levar: This is tons of great information! Thanks for finding those links! We don't have the fig wasp down here and I was wondering if I wanted to go to the trouble to establish a colony (would it be worth it). And it seems like it is much more complicated than I thought. You have to have several caprifigs to not only house the wasps at the right time of their lives (they go from living in male figs to being born in female figs in several cycles through the season) but also providing pollen at the right times to. It looks like there was some attempt at this in AZ in the 1900s: https://books.google.com/books?id=Ix1FAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=introducing+fig+wasp+to+AZ&source=bl&ots=M3GoEdty_I&sig=Pktx8WFGWJl-3wSVebeg7poWOpA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiC14L0h8bKAhXJr4MKHQKTCTQQ6AEIPzAG#v=onepage&q=introducing%20fig%20wasp%20to%20AZ&f=false But your other idea, just get some figs wasps and seeing how my figs react to being pollinated for one crop might be a very interesting experiment! Then I could see the changes first hand and determine if it might be worth the effort to establish a colony. Thanks for the info and ideas! __________________ Location: USDA Zone 9b / Sunset 13. Chandler, AZ Currently producing fruit and scions: Violette de Bordeaux, Panache, Black Mission, Black Jack, Smith, Col de Dame Gris, Marseilles Black VS, Red Lebanese (Bekaa) Small Trees / Currently rooting: lots Wish List: Ponte Tresa, Italian 258, Genovese Nero (not Rob's)

pitangadiego

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Registered:1188871011
Posts: 5,447

Posted 1453784264 · Edited	Reply with quote #7

Yes, everything affects flavor, color, etc. Caprification affects taste and color. Clearly we are talking about figs that are not Smyrna types, since they can't be tasted without being caprified. In my experience most figs have greater flavor when caprified, but some do not taste as good. Interestingly, for me, Black Madeira has never tasted as good when caprified as it does when it is not. No way to know how much weather, soil, fertilizer, water, etc. affected the caprified figs I have eaten. That is part of the issue with figs - they are so responsive to their environments that it is very hard to make comparisons between figs grown in different conditions. When figs on the same tree can be honey colored and strawberry colored depending on what week they ripen, it gets a little dicey trying to make dogmatic statements about how much this factor or that factor affects flavor. __________________ Encanto Farms Nursery http://encantofarms.com http://figs4fun.com http://webebananas.com "pitangadiego" everywhere

Vladis

Registered:1390659900
Posts: 352

Posted 1453791276 · Edited	Reply with quote #8

Исследования влияния опыление инжира kapri fikusami был проведен в НБС Ялте у большинство сортов инжира вкус улучшается. __________________ Зона 8Б ,Туапсе, Россия.

starch

Registered:1444492067
Posts: 123

Posted 1453818227	Reply with quote #9

Jon, thanks for the response! That's right, I was talking about non-Smyrna figs. That is an interesting observation: greater flavor but does not necessarily taste as good. And I agree, that just watching the figs ripen week to week makes a huge difference in taste. My VdB is fairly consistent flavor-wise across the crops. But Black Jack on the other hand is very bland for the early crops even when they are perfectly ripe, but the later crop in the same season is much fuller tasting. Definitely lots of variables at play here :) __________________ Location: USDA Zone 9b / Sunset 13. Chandler, AZ Currently producing fruit and scions: Violette de Bordeaux, Panache, Black Mission, Black Jack, Smith, Col de Dame Gris, Marseilles Black VS, Red Lebanese (Bekaa) Small Trees / Currently rooting: lots Wish List: Ponte Tresa, Italian 258, Genovese Nero (not Rob's)

starch

Registered:1444492067
Posts: 123

Posted 1453818349	Reply with quote #10

Vladis, here was the translation I found: "Studies of the effect pollination of figs kapri fikusami was held in Yalta, NBS from most varieties of figs taste improves." Gotcha. It seems like that is the general trend from what I have been reading too. But as Jon points out, that is not always the case. Thanks! __________________ Location: USDA Zone 9b / Sunset 13. Chandler, AZ Currently producing fruit and scions: Violette de Bordeaux, Panache, Black Mission, Black Jack, Smith, Col de Dame Gris, Marseilles Black VS, Red Lebanese (Bekaa) Small Trees / Currently rooting: lots Wish List: Ponte Tresa, Italian 258, Genovese Nero (not Rob's)

pitangadiego

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Registered:1188871011
Posts: 5,447

Posted 1453868899	Reply with quote #11

Another issue is heat. Earlier ripening figs often do not have as much heat, so have less flavor and sugar. Black Jack can range from tasting like a Brown Turkey in cooler weather to something close to a Black Mission in really nice hot weather. Black Madeira seems to loose its ability to ripen after the first few cool days. They will continue to ripen, and even if the weather is quite warm or hot after the cool days they do not ripen as well as they would have before the cool days. There are a lot more subtleties and variations than we generally realize. When most figs ripen in appropriate weather, and are great, we can be lulled, and we are often slow to recognize the variations in the environment that might have a more profound affect on a given variety while others are unaffected. __________________ Encanto Farms Nursery http://encantofarms.com http://figs4fun.com http://webebananas.com "pitangadiego" everywhere

snaglpus

Registered:1244258188
Posts: 4,072

Posted 1453869651	Reply with quote #12

Caprified Excel, Brown Turkey, Calfornia Brown Turkey, Black Mission, and Panachee are out of this freaking world in richness and taste. The size and texture is also very different. __________________ Dennis Charlotte, North Carolina/Zone 8a

AltadenaMara

Registered:1422990132
Posts: 375

Posted 1453870170	Reply with quote #13

Quote: Originally Posted by Vladis Исследования влияния опыление инжира kapri fikusami был проведен в НБС Ялте у большинство сортов инжира вкус улучшается. Google Translate: "Studies of the effect pollination of figs kapri fikusom was held in Yalta, NBS from most varieties of figs taste improves." That would be an interesting study to read. Is there a link to it on the Internet? Это было бы интересное исследование, чтобы читать. Есть ссылка на него в Интернете? __________________ Mara Southern California Zone 1990= 9b 2012= 10a 2020=?

Vladis

Registered:1390659900
Posts: 352

Posted 1453874951	Reply with quote #14

Мара,These are printed in the book "Varieties of figs." 1975 release. The book is published in Russian. Translation into English I have not seen in the internet. __________________ Зона 8Б ,Туапсе, Россия.

starch

Registered:1444492067
Posts: 123

Posted 1453905225	Reply with quote #15

Quote: Originally Posted by pitangadiego Another issue is heat. Earlier ripening figs often do not have as much heat, so have less flavor and sugar. Black Jack can range from tasting like a Brown Turkey in cooler weather to something close to a Black Mission in really nice hot weather. Yep, that is exactly what I saw last year. 3 crops. Went from blah, to meh, to pretty darn good! all as the heat kept building all summer Quote: Originally Posted by pitangadiego Black Madeira seems to loose its ability to ripen after the first few cool days. They will continue to ripen, and even if the weather is quite warm or hot after the cool days they do not ripen as well as they would have before the cool days. That is very interesting! I am hoping to grow one myself and I am thinking my consistently hot summers will be really beneficial for ripening with this one. FrozenJoe seems to have really good luck with these! Quote: Originally Posted by pitangadiego There are a lot more subtleties and variations than we generally realize. When most figs ripen in appropriate weather, and are great, we can be lulled, and we are often slow to recognize the variations in the environment that might have a more profound affect on a given variety while others are unaffected. I think you are very right about this. I am rooting a bunch of stuff this year, not only for variety but just to see what does well for me. You read a review of a fig but then you have to think that the growing conditions there might affect taste differently than growing conditions here. As always: mileage may vary :) __________________ Location: USDA Zone 9b / Sunset 13. Chandler, AZ Currently producing fruit and scions: Violette de Bordeaux, Panache, Black Mission, Black Jack, Smith, Col de Dame Gris, Marseilles Black VS, Red Lebanese (Bekaa) Small Trees / Currently rooting: lots Wish List: Ponte Tresa, Italian 258, Genovese Nero (not Rob's)

starch

Registered:1444492067
Posts: 123

Posted 1453905316	Reply with quote #16

Quote: Originally Posted by snaglpus Caprified Excel, Brown Turkey, Calfornia Brown Turkey, Black Mission, and Panachee are out of this freaking world in richness and taste. The size and texture is also very different. Cool that is good to know! Since I am growing Panache and Black Mission, that is another data point to help me think about this. Thanks! __________________ Location: USDA Zone 9b / Sunset 13. Chandler, AZ Currently producing fruit and scions: Violette de Bordeaux, Panache, Black Mission, Black Jack, Smith, Col de Dame Gris, Marseilles Black VS, Red Lebanese (Bekaa) Small Trees / Currently rooting: lots Wish List: Ponte Tresa, Italian 258, Genovese Nero (not Rob's)

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