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Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #51 
Tom, I read your original post and think I followed most of it and it is interesting.  However, this part doesn't make sense to me:

"You may not see the anthers, the anthers may be deformed and only produce a little pollen. But ALL THE POLLEN poduced will be female and genetically like the mother. You are making clones in seed form! "

Pollen is produced by meiosis, correct?  I.e. the parent plant is diploid (2n) and the pollen is haploid (1n).  So first of all, how can you say the pollen is genetically like the mother?  The other gamete, the egg, is likewise formed by meiosis.  So if the process you describe is going on i.e. formation of pollen and egg within a single plant that then fuse to form a 2n seed, the seed would not be a clone of the parent plant.  Each of the gametes would inherit one copy of every chromosome (or chromosomal region) from the parent plant (2n).  Figs are not in-bred thus they are not going to be homozygous at every locus.  So each new seed (2n) would have a new combination of the alleles at every loci in the genome.  It would certainly have a lot of similarities to the parent but it wouldn't be a clone of the parent.

Admittedly I'm not an expert in plant breeding so if I didn't catch something you wrote which explains this please let me know.
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congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #52 
Maybe one of these fig breeder PhDs can EXPLAIN MULE FLOWER TO ME!!! YOU BETTER HAVE A 'REALLY GOOD' EXPLANATION!!! Oh, AND LET'S TALK ABOUT THE HERMAPHRODITE BELL CURVE, WHICH IS REAL AND PISTILLATE HERMAPHODITES AS IT RELATES TO OBSERVATIONS 'YOU EXPERTS' HAVE MADE....:) BOY, IT WILL BE JUST LIKE A 'PhD COMMITTEE MEETING' FOR THEM...:) EXCEPT I AM ASKING THE QUESTIONS...:)
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #53 
If no PhD fig breeder dares to challenge me, THERE IS A REASON WHY!!! The reason is, THEY REALIZE THAT THEY ARE WRONG!!!
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #54 
Evidence suggests there are self-fertile fig...temporally sterile, but FERTILE!!! Yeah, we need to discuss 'MULE FLOWERS' and this notion of diecious too.....
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #55 
The thing I like is that it might be really easy to make S1 synthetic hybrid fig with known fruit characteristics. A unique blending of the two and ALL FEMALE SEEDS FROM ALL FEMALE POLLEN!!! Yeah, you would only get a few plants, SO??? All the plants should be female/pistillate hermaphrodite and good. A blending of two choice cultivars....Why grow out a mess of plants when you can make S1 hybrids of great plants?
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #56 
Again, this is all dependent on whether common fig breba produce pollen and evidence suggests some landrace varieties do produce viable pollen and self themselves to ensure reproductive success. GA3 probably gets you more all female line bred or S1 seeds depending on what you pollinate.
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #57 
I just want to find out if these line bred selfed plants from Canada are pistillate hermaphrodite and looking at his description and the 'dwarfing' of the plant suggests inbred lines of a pistillate hermaphrodite.
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #58 
This is a 'COMMON' reproductive success strategy in ALL DIECIOUS (EWE!) PLANTS! For it to be in fig is NO REAL SHOCK!!! Call it for what it is when we know for sure.....I am just letting you know that I AM LOOKING INTO IT AND ENCOURGE OTHERS TO DO THE SAME!!!
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #59 
Again I ENCOURAGE ANY PHD FIG BREEDER OR OTHER CALL ME OUT ON THIS IF YOU CAN!!! START BY EXPLAINING 'MULE FLOWER' PLEASE, WHEN EVIDENCE SUGGESTS ITS NO MULE!!! THE NOTION OF DIECIOUS AFTER THAT AND THEN PISTILLATE HERMAPHRODITE.....OK?
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #60 
We are going to have a LOT TO DISCUSS....JUST LIKE A PHD COMMITTEE MEETING....WITH ME ASKING THE QUESTIONS...:) GET READY, I CAN BE A 'TOUGHEE' WHEN IT COMES TO STUPID ANSWERS, EXPERT OR NOT!!!!
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #61 
Even if vaible pollen is produced infrequently in Breba fig, the fact that some people (Japan?) are using GA3 to stimulate male flower production is FURTHER EVIDENCE THAT ALL FIG ARE HERMAPHRODITES with some landraces with Breba being pistillate hermaphrodite. Given the QUALITY of the geneticists in Japan, as I worked with one of the best at Cornell visting, Hiro...GRID Data Center....I have no doubt that technique works....It works in Cannabis and hop! Also, if this can be done, even if you must use GA3, why not do this EXCLUSIVELY? All you get are all female S1 hybrids or inbreds. That's what you want and no wasted space for males as they are now not needed....
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #62 
It's probably going to take a while for a fig PhD to answer my challenge on the notions of 'MULE FLOWERS' and 'DIOECIOUS'.....:) That is 'MULE FLOWERS' and 'DIOECIOUS' as it relates to fig...:)
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #63 
The pollen is like the mother because the mother produces the pollen....It is just pollen with the mother's DNA....
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #64 
So, you have 1N 'FEMALE POLLEN and it selfs a 1N female ovary of the main crop for an inbred or another variety for an S1 synthetic all female hybrid.
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #65 
I have to go to my twitter now...Please ignore my strong words, but I am a really good plant breeder and when I see possible mistakes, I WILL POINT THAT OUT!!! I could be wrong! Without a doubt, it might be apomixis, but everything I know about the 'hermaphrodite bell curve' and what people report on fig suggest to me that all fig are hermaphrodites on the bell curve with pistillate hermaphrodites and all females as outliers on that curve. GA3 and probably silver thiosulfate can induce male flowers on plants which are naturally pistillate hermaphrodite under certain enivionmental conditions as a survival mechanism which is prevalent throughout all Dioecious (ewe!)/Hermaphrodites.
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #66 
I got to go...cheers all...:)
brettjm

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Posted Reply with quote  #67 
Not sure if you're trolling or you're just missing your target audience.  My guess is you're over the head of 90-95% of the forum (including yours truly), and you're posting like crazy with lots of CAPS.  Generally, posting in such a manner does not produce the desired conversation you're looking for...again...assuming you're not trolling.  Your best bet is to give it some time and let people respond. 

If you're here for the debate/conversation, welcome to the forum.
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waynea

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Posted Reply with quote  #68 
Welcome to the forum Thomas, you sure have a lot of posts on this interesting topic.
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #69 
The reason why Japan is injecting Breba with GA3 is because it works! From a plant breeding perspective creating 'all female' pollen in a pistillate hermaphrodite female prized fig cultivar for use in crossing with another different prized female results in 100% female plants that have traits of BOTH prized females. You save time, space, money and you get superior synthetic F1 hydrids call S1's. People have been using this technique for years now in Cannabis and hop to produce all female seeds. Go online and type in Cannabis feminized seed. Some of the S1's with Blue Dream and whatnot are AMAZING! The same thing apparently can happen with fig! The Japanese are using this techinque and IT WORKS and they know they are creating S1 hybrids. Go get the paper on inducing male flowers in Cannabis and READ IT! The same concentration of GA3 will most-likely work for fig too! GA3 is availble on eBay I bet! All other chemicals can be bought now on eBay or Amazon and no need for a 'University account' at Sigma Chemical or something. People, THIS IS EASY AND IT WORKS, THAT IS WHY YOU READ ABOUT JAPAN DOING IT!!! THEY ARE NOT STUPID, THEY ARE CREATING NEW AND EXCITING SYNTHETIC F1 FIG HYBRIDS USING GA3, YOU CAN DO IT TO!!! WAY EASIER AND QUICKER THAN GROWING CAPRIFIGS AND YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING WITH THE SYNTHETIC CROSS!!! THAT IS THE BIGGEST PLUS IS THAT YOU GET ALL FEMALES WHEN YOU HAVE PISTILLATE HERMAPHRODITE XX POLLEN! The all-female fig induced by chemicals or stress will have 100% XX pollen. You get 100% superior females to choose from! Nice to hear that Japanese plant breeders realize that common fig is pistillate hemaphrodite and with GA3 you can increase the amount of XX pollen and get all-female S1 progeny of superior female cultivars! I think all you 'want-to-be' fig breeders go on eBay or Amazon and get some GA3 and give it shot! NO EXCUSES PEOPLE....THERE ARE MANY NON-PHD'S DOING THE SAME THING IN CANNABIS RIGHT NOW AND MAKING GOOD MONEY SELLING FEMINIZED SEED! IF JAPAN IS MAKING S1 FIG HYBRIDS, THE TECHNIQUE WORKS BECAUSE FIG ALL FIG ARE HERMAPHRODITE WITH MANY BEING PISTILLATE HERMIES AND JAPAN IS SMART ENOUGH TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE ALL-FEMALE/FEMINIZED XX POLLEN VIA CHEMICAL STRESS! Hopefully some of you will read this and want to give it a try. My plate is full with orchids right now and fig is a side project, but I just wanted to clear up some things...:) Way to go Japan on the S1 fig hybrids...CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THEM...:)
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #70 
Also, if you plan on trying this S1 hydrid production using GA3 induced feminized pollen, dissolve the GA3 in a little ethanol of grain alcohol before mixing in water as GA3 is NOT very soluable in water. If Japan is doing this, YOU NEED TO BE DOING THIS!!! It looks to be the best way to maximize fig breeding efforts and word from Japan says it works and they are doing it! Giddy-up want-to-be fig breeders...:)
DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #71 
You have hijacked a thread by Bass and have completely changed it's direction.  Start your own topic, please, and use terms normal folks can understand.  Also, go to the control panel and put your planting zone in the signature field. 

AND, SINCE YOU LOVE ALL CAPS, Make a proper introduction.

And, I bet your seed dude from Canada gets his seeds this way:

How to Germinate Fig Seeds

Things You'll Need

  • 2 to 3 fresh ripe figs
  • Bowl
  • Slotted spoon

Instructions

1.        Soak two or three fresh, ripe figs in a bowl of clean water for one to two days. Use your fingers to break open the figs, exposing the seeds and pulp. Return the figs to the water for an additional one to two days. Scoop out any pulpy material that floats to the top; any viable fig seeds will sink to the bottom of the bowl. Pour the water in the bowl through a strainer and spread the seeds on a paper towel to allow them to dry slightly.

2.        Combine equal parts peat moss, perlite and finely ground volcanic rock to create a coarse, well-draining growing medium in which to germinate your seeds. Pour the growing medium into a 4- to 6-inch-deep tray with drainage holes in the bottom.

3.        Mix the fig seeds with 1/2 cup of wood ash or fine horticultural sand. Distribute the mixture evenly over the surface of the growing medium in the tray.

4.        Water the seeds to settle them into the growing medium and encourage them to germinate.

5.        Place the tray in a location that receives four to six hours of bright sunlight per day. Water, as needed, to keep the growing medium evenly moist; the seeds should germinate and sprout in approximately seven to 10 days.
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congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #72 
If the guy in Canada used GA3 to create his Breba pollen, why not create S1 hydrids and sell those seeds on eBay? No, that suggests he did not use GA3 and the Breba pollen was naturally produced and the seeds are therefore inbred....SO BASS IS PROBABLY CORRECT AND THIS IS NO HIGHJACK!! IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I SAY....GO AWAY...YOU DON'T HAVE TO READ MY POSTS...I'M SURE OTHERS WILL WANT TO READ THE 'CORRECT INFORMATION'!!!
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #73 
Thank you BASS, YOUR POST IS MOST-LIKELY CORRECT!!!
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #74 
My gosh...HIGHJACK A POST.....GET A CLUE PEOPLE!!!!
DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #75 
This is not twitter.  You wait for a response!  Get it?
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waynea

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Posted Reply with quote  #76 
It is best at this point that all members not respond anymore, please.
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #77 
Also, I AM NOT THE ONE THAT BROUGHT UP GA3, THAT WAS SOMEONE ELSE ON THIS POST AND I AM JUST REPLYING TO IT IN MY 'COMPLETE INFORMATION' WAY....IT'S OBVIOUS THAT THERE ARE THOSE ON HERE THAT DON'T LIKE ME 'CRITISIZING' OTHERS....Well, IF YOU HAVE THE WRONG INFORMATION AND YOU ARE A PLANT BREEDER, I WILL CALL YOU OUT, WHILE GIVING 'ALL PEOPLE' THE INFORMATION I HAVE ......AS IT RELATES TO THE TOPIC BY 'BASS'.....WHICH IS 'NO HIGHJACK'...SO GET OVER IT!!!
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #78 
What does How to Germinate Fig Seedhave to do with BASS saying Breba figs have pollen that can be collected and used? Your post HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COLLECTING BREBA POLLEN OR STIMUALTING INCREASE OF BREBA POLLEN FOR CROSSES WHICH I REPLIED TO!!!
greenfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #79 
I think it is called a linguistic diaria ...
With a faulty ALL Caps keyboard and a Cannabis background, the effect is quite dramatic.
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congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #80 
I think that person has just HIGHJACKED THE POST!!...:) No, I REALLY DON'T THINK THAT NOR CARE. IT AMAZES ME THAT PEOPLE ARE THIS SCREWBALL WHEN A PHD IS GIVING THEM INFORMATION. IT'S THIS 'REGULAR PEOPLE' THING THAT IS NOT COOL!!! Oh, SO PhDs are not regular people right? Again, just repsonding to a screwball post!
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #81 
Man people DO NOT LIKE PhDs too much, right? I hear this SO MANY TIMES....YOU'RE NOT REGULAR PEOPLE LIKE US!!! WHATEVER PEOPLE????
congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #82 
I am just GIVING YOU USEFUL FIG BREEDING INFORMATION AND IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ IT BLOW AWAY AS THERE ARE OTHERS THAT WANT TO READ ABOUT 'POTENTIALLY EFFICIENT' FIG BREEDING USING FEMINIZED BREBA POLLEN THAT BASS STARTED TALKING ABOUT!
waynea

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Posted Reply with quote  #83 
Again, please do not respond to this thread, he is winning when we respond, let the thread die, all he wants is a response, he wins, please do not respond.
rafaelissimmo

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Posted Reply with quote  #84 
Time to ease up on the amphetamines dude.

Sorry Wayne, couldn't resist.
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congatom

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Posted Reply with quote  #85 
You people appear to be SCREWBALL! Let the thread die? I am giving you USEFUL INFORMATION...What a bunch of IGNORANT SCREWBALLS!! I am giving you information on how to IMPROVE fig breeding and you BITCH??? WOW!!! How many of you would have known from the post on the Japanese paper on GA3, 'why' GA3 was being used? How many know about XX all female pollen? I am giving you current breeding information and you BITCH!! MY GOSH SCREWBALLS!!!

Oh, by the way this is the one inch equation that explains the universe: E=MI(g) ...IT'S THE UNIFIED FIELD EQUATION AND GO TO MY TWITTER SCREWBALLS AND READ UP!!! 

@DrThomasParker1 on Twitter!!
Samantha

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Posted Reply with quote  #86 
Hi there, 

I have a rather simple question, I'm hoping it's simple. I live in Melbourne, Australia, my fig has dropped all its fruit for two consecutive seasons. The fruit are very small when they drop. It could be because of water or heat but I think it's more likely that they are not being pollinated. Do you know if there is anything I can do to attract fig wasps to my fig tree?

Many thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Sam
jdsfrance

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Posted Reply with quote  #87 
Hi Samantha,
Long story short : NO . Get a fig strain of the common type... Remove and destroy you tree ... Sorry for your, but that's what happens sometimes.
Hence, the not that good reputation of fig trees ... At least here in my Zone7, a fig-wasp free zone. Of course when you are in a fig-wasp zone... You can't understand where the problem stands ...
But for us in fig-wasp free zones, we have to carefully select our figtrees ... or we'll be giving them a bad reputation ... of droppers .
Good luck !
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Likeo

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Posted Reply with quote  #88 
Hey, will the viable seeds turn into a common fig?
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Figs: Conadria and Little Ruby
Samantha

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Posted Reply with quote  #89 
Hi there,

Thanks for your advice, I'd really like to keep the tree if possible, it used to fruit beautifully and it's a stunning tree. Are there any other options?

Cheers,
Sam
rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #90 
Samantha, you'll get better answers if you start your own thread.  We'll need more information and preferably photos of the figs and their insides.  If you don't have the wasp you are unlikely to have a caprifig.  If you do have the wasp you might have a smyrna fig and you'd need a pollinator.  Common figs don't need the wasp and those are the only ones likely to be sold if there's no wasp in your country.

Wait until you're able to start a new thread and then you'll get better answers.
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Zone 6, MO

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Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
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Posted Reply with quote  #91 
I'm pretty interested
Bass

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Posted Reply with quote  #92 
Samantha, 
you stated that your tree has fruited beautifully in the past, which indicates that it might be a common type or if it's a Smyrna type it got pollinated somehow. There might be other factors besides lack of pollination that could be causing your fruit to drop. Photos of the fruit can help, also a photo of the tree. 
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Likeo

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Posted Reply with quote  #93 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcantor
Samantha, you'll get better answers if you start your own thread.  We'll need more information and preferably photos of the figs and their insides.  If you don't have the wasp you are unlikely to have a caprifig.  If you do have the wasp you might have a smyrna fig and you'd need a pollinator.  Common figs don't need the wasp and those are the only ones likely to be sold if there's no wasp in your country.

Wait until you're able to start a new thread and then you'll get better answers.
You can't post a new topic for some reason
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Smyfigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #94 
Yes, theres a problem. I havent been able to post anew topic for days!
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anekitoe

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Posted Reply with quote  #95 

Nice topic,

how do we know the proper time to harvest Capri fig to let them dry and collect pollen?
CharlesC

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Posted Reply with quote  #96 
Condit mentioned he did his pollinations in June.  Northern hemisphere.  There are early, mid, and late season capris, plus weather differences, so getting pollen somewhere in May-June-July would be a good bet.
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