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Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > Shipment of Tree Pots came in today!!!
 
 


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ADelmanto

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Just got my delivery from Stuewe of 4"x9" tree pots. Can't say they were cheap but I think they are perfect for growing fig trees. I'm a roots first kind of guy so the deeper I can start my cuttings the better. I think I can keep them in these pots for a year. We'll see. If you trade rooted figs with me someday, they will in these pots. I do have some extras that I would trade for figs. Send me a PM

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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
I think your figs will grow better and your chances of getting figs will be better in a bigger pot after a few months.  Mine have outgrown 3 gallon pots in less than a year.  I couldn't up pot them because of space but I will when I move them outside this year (now that I've moved).  Best of luck with whatever you decide.
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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Nice thing about these are they train the roots to grow down,also reusable.
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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADelmanto
I'm a roots first kind of guy
so the deeper I can start my cuttings the better. .


Forestry Nursery men are "roots first kind of guys" too.
They plant SHALLOW, not deep.

If you plant deep,
there is no place "down" for the roots to go.
Although this is not as critical for trees without taps roots, like figs,
you still want downward growing roots,
you plant deep, there is no room for them to go down.

:-)
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ADelmanto

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
I plan on planting my figs deep, like a tomato, because it will put out roots all along the cutting. I would not plant an acorn on the bottom of the pot. Different concept altogether. :-). Unless I'm completely wrong. Anyone see a flaw in my plan. I plan to pot up this weekend.
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gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
I have been using those 4x9" Stuewe tree-pots for my bigger-than-average fig twigs.
They are not cheap; but they are grrreat (long and narrow)!
The fluted sides also encourage the roots to grow down (rather than circle around).
A milk crate will nicely hold 12 such pots.
The drain holes are rather big. I partially block them with pine bark.

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 

Tomato = Annual
Fig = Perennial

Acorn = Seed
Fig = Cutting

Your logic is faulty.

An acorn is a seed, you wouldn't plant it deep,
nor would you plant a tomato seed deep either.
Cutting is different than a seed.

Tomato that you plant deep is in the ground,
no bottom to that container   :-)

Who would see a flaw in your plan ?,
a professional with forestry experience.
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ADelmanto

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
However a potted oak tree would not put out side roots if planted too deep. It would suffer and die. A fig puts out roots wherever it touches the soil, all along the stem (hence my tomato reference) I'm not 100% sure that I'm right, but my cuttings are rooting all along the stem so why not burry all of the roots? I plan on leaving just a little sticking out of the top, not burry the whole thing, just 90% of it.
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hungryjack

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 

Actually, if you planted that oak too deep, it would not die.
What would determine the success of that oak in the ground
was how it was grown while in the container !
If you allowed the tap root to exit the bottom of the container
you would end up with an unhealthy or dead tree in the ground.

Well, since  you prerooted your fig cuttings, you have no choice now.

If you were rooting directly in the containers,
and had a 8" cutting,
best for the tree would be to bury 2" and leave 6" above the soil.
This would require you to control humidity above the soil for a high success rate.
Many hobbyists have trouble with this task,
so their solution is to do the opposite,
6 inches of the cutting into the container and 2" above the soil.
This will help with the success rate when it comes to # of plants started
compared to those that died.
It will not produce the best situation for the fig trees' root development.

Optimum growth of the roots was sacrificed for increased rate of cutting/start success,
because of the difficulty most experience with controlling humidity above the soil.

If you can control the humidity,
then the cuttings can be planted in the optimum way,
and you will produce the best root mass possible,
which in turn will produce the best tree when planted in the ground eventually.

Also, those large holes on the bottom of the containers
are there for a reason, its to air prune the roots when they reach the bottom of the container.
Professionals will place those containers on wire mesh tables,
tables that offer the most air space, they don't want container bottoms in contact with a solid surface.

Roots coming out the bottom of tomato plants - not desirable.
Roots coming out the bottom of tree transplants - really bad.


If you want to experiment,
take a prerooted cutting,
cut it into 3.5" long sections and plant HORIZONTALLY and shallow in your containers,
about 1 inch below soil.  Do a couple this way, and the rest bury deep.
In 4- 6 months  unpot the test plants, and compare the root structure,
you will see the difference.
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hungryjack

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
If you want to treat a fig tree like a tomato plant,


the right time to do that is when you are transplanting into the ground/earth.

That is when you "plant it deep"


Good Luck with your orchard this year.
:-)
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ADelmanto

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Cool will do!
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hungryjack

<SNIP>

If you were rooting directly in the containers,
and had a 8" cutting,
best for the tree would be to bury 2" and leave 6" above the soil.
This would require you to control humidity above the soil for a high success rate.
Many hobbyists have trouble with this task,
so their solution is to do the opposite,
6 inches of the cutting into the container and 2" above the soil.
This will help with the success rate when it comes to # of plants started
compared to those that died.
It will not produce the best situation for the fig trees' root development.

Optimum growth of the roots was sacrificed for increased rate of cutting/start success,
because of the difficulty most experience with controlling humidity above the soil.

If you can control the humidity,
then the cuttings can be planted in the optimum way,
and you will produce the best root mass possible,
which in turn will produce the best tree when planted in the ground eventually.

<SNIP>.



As I understand it, the sentiment above is that it's best for the eventual plant if you keep most of the fig cutting out of the rooting medium and in a humidity dome.  I disagree.  If you keep the cutting in the rooting medium then the branch that starts growing will grow out into room air and will not need adaptation to normal air later.  Many people lose their plant at the stage where they try to get it out of the humidity dome.  Any dead plant's roots are worse than any live plant's roots.  I make sure my new shoots come out into room air with lots of light for that reason.  In a year the roots will be similar no matter what.
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gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
This is how (for better or worse?!) I root my (F.carica) fig cuttings, and
though I do not get a 100% strike, I am satisfied with my success rate.

For a very looong time, I used ~20-32 ounce foam-cups - my absolute favorite!
They have many benefits:
Cheap, easy to punch drain holes with just a 1/4" (*/+) screwdriver,
tall/narrow shape, easy to ship (as starters), slightly (air) porous, etc...
One disadvantage is that roots are not visible (vs rigid clear-cups) till they
go thru the drain holes - actually developing-roots like the dark-side.

I usually stick the unrooted fig twigs ~1/2" - 1.0" above the bottom of the cup.

Reason (a) being to avoid the more-wet soil at the very bottom
(where is too wet also depends on the soil mix being used).
Slightly longer twigs, may go to the very bottom, sometimes right above a drainage hole.

Reason (b) being that I do believe that the more fig-wood is in contact with soil,
the better chances are for them roots, to just root! Mission accomplished...

Above the soil level, I am happy to have 1 or 2 nodes, or ~2'' for a 'tip' cutting.
I do not always use a vented dome for moisture....

As always, we want roots before leaves.

Edit: For small twig quantities, I may pre start the roots in moist Sph. moss.
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Posted Reply with quote  #14 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcantor


As I understand it, the sentiment above is that it's best for the eventual plant if you keep most of the fig cutting out of the rooting medium and in a humidity dome.  I disagree.  If you keep the cutting in the rooting medium then the branch that starts growing will grow out into room air and will not need adaptation to normal air later.  Many people lose their plant at the stage where they try to get it out of the humidity dome.  Any dead plant's roots are worse than any live plant's roots.  I make sure my new shoots come out into room air with lots of light for that reason. 

In a year the roots will be similar no matter what.


Sorry, but University experiments/professors and top of the line professional propagators
all disagree with you.

I would also suggest you are making an assumption with that comment,
and not actually run any controlled scientific tests to prove your beliefs.

Your other comments just prove my point
about the hobbyist trouble with controlling humidity
above the soil,
and modify their propagation techniques to compensate for this.
That modification is at the expense of the root development.

Also, I did not suggest the use of a humidity dome,
neither am I fan of it,
the humidity dome and its associated problems gets used
because the propagator has difficulties controlling humidity properly without it.


Obviously most varieties of figs are very easy to propagate,
you could toss a half a dozen cuttings over your shoulder,
then a couple of shovels of soil next and walk away,
good probability a fig tree will root and grow.

Point is, many people spend considerable time, effort and money
to care for their fig babies, in order to produce better trees and quality fruits,
but many of these efforts will yield no real beneficial results,
in some cases hurt the trees progress,
simply because of poor/lack of technique.
Improving ones skill set in this area,
will then translate into a large improvement in the trees propagated.

You know, there is a reason why we have Agricultural Colleges  in this world.
:-)
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
How do you recommend people control the humidity without humidity domes?

As far as no controlled studies, guilty as charged  :)  I'd love to work at an ag college and do studies but it doesn't seem to be my lot in life.

Tell us more about what the studies have shown with your rooting method.  What happens with the different methods and how long have they followed them. 

Inquiring minds want details!  Nothing makes me happier than to be proven wrong.  That's when I learn.
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ADelmanto

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
I'm here to learn not teach, all of this is new to me. What I can't wrap my head around is why one would not want to maximize the amount of roots you could get from a cutting. If I have a 6" cutting and leave 1-2" sticking out of the top of my 9" pot I still have 4-5" of pot under the bottom of my cutting. Plenty of room for all of the roots that could fill the pot before I up potted them. Is that 6 months or a year I don't know. Humidity dome or not it seems to make sense to me. Hopefully all of my cuttings are getting potted up this weekend and getting placed on an outdoor 4'x12' shelf that I topped with heating coils and cedar mulch. Over top of that I have a 2-3' "High Tunnel" greenhouse. I have to experiment to make sure I can keep at least 60 degrees in there overnight before I put my babies in there. Wish me luck!
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
What kind of heating coils?  Where do you get them?  I would want cuttings over 70 degrees. (no studies  : )  We all have stuff to learn and stuff to teach.  Don't be stingy  :)

From my experience you'll fill that 4x9 pot with roots in 3 mo or less.  You won't see it be rootbound because all the roots are forced down and then get exposed to air.  The more soil the roots can grow into the bigger the tree they can support and the more fruit.  You could leave them in your 4x9 pots for a long time but you wont get optimal growth of the tree.
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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gorgi
This is how (for better or worse?!) I root my (F.carica) fig cuttings, and
though I do not get a 100% strike, I am satisfied with my success rate.

For a very looong time, I used ~20-32 ounce foam-cups - my absolute favorite!
They have many benefits:
Cheap, easy to punch drain holes with just a 1/4" (*/+) screwdriver,
tall/narrow shape, easy to ship (as starters), slightly (air) porous, etc...
One disadvantage is that roots are not visible (vs rigid clear-cups) till they
go thru the drain holes - actually developing-roots like the dark-side.

I usually stick the unrooted fig twigs ~1/2" - 1.0" above the bottom of the cup.

Reason (a) being to avoid the more-wet soil at the very bottom
(where is too wet also depends on the soil mix being used).
Slightly longer twigs, may go to the very bottom, sometimes right above a drainage hole.

Reason (b) being that I do believe that the more fig-wood is in contact with soil,
the better chances are for them roots, to just root! Mission accomplished...

Above the soil level, I am happy to have 1 or 2 nodes, or ~2'' for a 'tip' cutting.
I do not always use a vented dome for moisture....

As always, we want roots before leaves.


gorgi,

I do almost the same but with 2 differences. My cups are clear and at the bottom of the cup I put 1" of perlite or gravel for a better drainage, the rest is light soil. I compared with a baggie method and found no difference in the development when the cups (covered with a upside ziplock bags with punch holes) are on a heating mat.
By difference I mean:  
a) get roots in a baggi + potting in a 16 ounce cup, light soil + leaves appear and
b) potting straight in a cup/small pot + leaves appear.

and in the b) I don't have to deal with the baby roots, which a huge plus. 
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Sas

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
This tree has been sitting in this pot for over 6 years. I never pruned it.I sometimes forget to water it. It was constantly stressed in 110 degree summers. This this the first year ever that I'm giving it some organic food. Last year it gave me two figs of unbeleivable sweet taste. I originally bought this fig tree as a white fig tree from an Austin Nursery. Never bothered to check what kind of fig it was. At that time I thought that figs were either white or black. Little did I know that there were hundreds of varieties...To make things worse this fig tree never received direct sun. So this year I moved it to a sunny location and I'm feeding it some organic food. I'm hoping to get more figs out of it if I don't kill it first... I will post some pictures when the figs are ready.

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
There are quite a few assumptions being made about the problems of transplanting into a pot too deep.  I've read many studies about pots, root development, etc. and have an ag degree and think I do okay farming.  I've spent a fair amount of time talking to Dr. Carl Whitcomb who is pretty well respected on the matter of root development in pots.  I have grown hundreds of chestnuts in pots and later transferred out into the field.  I would not transplant any of these deep into a pot.  Figs are quite different and easily develop roots from the trunk if covered with soil.  Chestnuts (same family as oaks) root very difficultly while figs are very easy with a branch that touches the soil usually rooting very quickly.  Sticking 6" of stem into the soil will usually result in a larger root system than if 2" is stuck in the soil.

I stated before that I've been transplanting my rooted cuttings into the deeper 4" x 12" Stuewe pots.  Most get stuck a little deeper than when I rooted them but not all.  I like the deeper pots because I can leave 2-3" of empty space at the top (for easy watering) and still have plenty of soil.  I don't plan to keep my figs in these pots for long, maybe planting them out into the orchard 3-5 months after first being stuck in these pots.  But they can survive in them for quite a while just fine and I've kept some back-up plants in these for quite a while.  Attached is a Calvert that has been in this pot for two years.  It has lived most of its life in my shadehouse but was just moved into my greenhouse about a month ago because I want to get it growing and plant it in my orchard in a month or so.

The only disadvantage to these pots I've experienced is that stacking them together in trays of 16 like I do results in shading out since the plants are so close.  Pretty soon I'm going to remove every other pot and replace it with an empty pot to space them out more.

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ADelmanto

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Thanks for the backup Harvey. I just potted up 166 cuttings today. I have plans for about 100 more in a month or so. I've never potted up fig trees before but I don't think I could have done a better job if I do say so myself. I'll post pics in a new thread in a day or two.
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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
I was potting up figs into larger pots today and thought I'd share my experience with a 4x12 treepot.  This is an Italian Honey I got from Bill Saxon and started rooting on January 24th. I think I put it in the treepot about a month later and now, on 3/29, the pot is pretty well filled up with roots so I'm moving it up.  It's now in a 5 gallon pot filled deep enough just to keep at the same depth it was before, about 10-11" and is outside.  Our weather is mostly upper 40s to low 50s at night and mid 70s during the day.
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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Hungryjack, I am unclear on the experiment you suggest in post #9. Do you control for the number of nodes on each 3.5 inch section? I assume you are talking about multiple 3.5" rooted cuttings as opposed to one really long rooted cutting cut into sections. Won't there be meaningful variation in roots and leaves from rooted cutting to rooted cutting? How deep is "deep"? I assume you mean >3.5". Do you anticipate the deep cutting will have to struggle much more than the the shallow cutting to get vegetation above the surface? Why horizontal planting as opposed to vertical? Your suggested experiment sounds as if you have done it or something similar. My experience is a suggestion like this means you've done it yourself before. If so, what did you see?

You seem to be well read on the subject of roots and producing young trees that thrive upon moving out of pots into the ground. It would be helpful to me, and I think others, if you could provide links or PDFs or scientific journal citations. I for one really enjoy reading primary sources of information. Thanks!
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Posted Reply with quote  #24 

After reading about these pots on this site, I gave Stuewe a call and ordered my own.  Unfortunately, they are backordered and I won't receive them until early May.  I doubt my cuttings will have taken off too much by then (but I can always hope, right?).

I like the depth as well as the space savings.  I have all of my cuttings in the 4-6" length so I doubt they will be growing up and crowding too much too early.

I'm not looking forward to explaining to my wife all the space these figs will take after they are potted up from the Stuewe size pots.  Any marriage counselors out there?

Andrew
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Posted Reply with quote  #25 

Get yourself a  large Igloo dog house Andrew, it'll be big enough for the dog and you.  My wife told me a few years back, either the figs in about 8 sterlite containers hid in two rooms had to go or me, make a choice.  Lucky for me, the weather was beginning to warm so I moved the figs in containers out to the covered porch and they were still out of the harsh weather.  This years looks like two containers will be plenty. Fig collection addiction being what it is, :-) plan on asking for forgivenes and take her out on dates more often.
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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
I ran into the same problem, Andrew. Oh well. By the time they get here in May I'm hoping I can use them for my latest round of cuttings, at least. I'll have to use something else in the mean time for the current cuttings. I want to get them out of the clear 36 oz cups and into small black pots.
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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Nicole, I set my cuttings up in trays with Root Riot on Easter Sunday - I have a feeling that your cuttings are way ahead of mine.  As a beginner I'm also making the huge leap of faith that I don't kill all of them before I even get started.

Maybe we can use them to grow carrots? ...

Andrew
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