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Gordenia

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Looking for Kyoho grape . Please send PM
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Gordenia
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Where are you located?
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Zone 6, SE MICHIGAN
-14F 1-7-14
-23F 2-?-15
   6F 1-18-16
Gordenia

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zone 6A.
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Gordenia
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I'm looking for good grape scion.   Never heard of this one though.   
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Zone 6, SE MICHIGAN
-14F 1-7-14
-23F 2-?-15
   6F 1-18-16
Gordenia

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It is very rare and according to one supplier I found -huge  and.............. expensive.

 

********Kyoho grapes are grapes of the kind of cultivation, the shape of the largest species among the grapes produced in Asia by Japan , it is called "the king of grapes in Japan.**********



Also looking for Cotton Candy- but it is almost impossible to find.

What do you consider "good grape" ?

Not my photos: images1.jpg 

images.jpg 


Is not it a "good grape" ?




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Gordenia
Erick

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I've got the concord, Thompson seedless, and reliance verieties.. This three are hard to beat. I've got a few more verieties I'm wanting to get but love these..
AltadenaMara

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Those are very "good pictures" of a grape that just tastes okay when grown without chemicals or hormones in my yard, or in California in general. There are a number of grapes (Price, Muscat of Alexandria) , even my seedless ones (Thomcord, Diamond Muscat, Reliance), that taste better and I guess would "bulk up" to super market size almost as big as Kyoho with severe thinning, hormones and fertilizers. I read the same hype and advertising as you a few years back, which is why I grew it. If you "eat" with your eyes, then this can be considered a very good grape -raised in Japan by obsessive, dedicated gardeners under perfect conditions. Even when I bought the Kyoho grapes locally at Oriental markets, I was even more disappointed. I prefer to enjoy the taste of richness, complexity, and specific flavors and scents, even mouth feel, from what I'm eating. Size to me means nothing. Some of the most concentrated and seductive flavors in fruit are in the smaller fruits.  
    My last two Kyoho vines received five to six hours of hot afternoon sun. Thinking perhaps that wasn't enough. I've planted my latest Kyoho in a location where it gets all day sun, hoping this would bring out the hyped taste of it. It almost died. I haven't given up on it in terms of it having a flavor that makes it a keeper. It just hasn't delivered over six to eight years so far.
    Best of luck with your search. i hope you find and grow the "king of grapes" and are happy with it.    

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordenia
It is very rare and according to one supplier I found -huge  and.............. expensive.

********Kyoho grapes are grapes of the kind of cultivation, the shape of the largest species among the grapes produced in Asia by Japan , it is called "the king of grapes in Japan.**********

Also looking for Cotton Candy- but it is almost impossible to find.

What do you consider "good grape" ?

Not my photos:   Is not it a "good grape" ?


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Mara  Southern California  Zone 1990= 9b   2012= 10a  2020=?

 

HanburyHouse

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Here in SoCal, Kyoho is often found at the CRFG scion exchanges. Lots of folks grow it. I didn't realize it was hard to come by. If you can't find a retailer that ships to your area, maybe try the Germplasm at Davis. Here is a link to Kyoho in the hybrid grape selections held there: http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/acc/display.pl?1018347
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Gordenia

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Thank you for information and link.
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Gordenia
Gordenia

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Just contacted Germplasm at Davis- it is too late , may be next season.
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Gordenia
Gordenia

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Found cuttings from China on eBay. Any information about importing cuttings from China?
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Gordenia
HanburyHouse

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordenia
Also looking for Cotton Candy- but it is almost impossible to find.

What do you consider "good grape" ?


Is not it a "good grape" ?




Unfortunately, the other grape you mentioned, Cotton Candy grape is a patented variety from international fruit genetics. It will only be available to licensed growers under contract. The growers have to pay royalties on the fruit production as well as plants. They have already taken one of their licensed growers to court over it. I doubt us backyard grape hobbiests will have access to plant material from it for quite awhile. It was developed from a cross of Princess with some of the Arkansas hybrids.

If you are just starting out with grapes, have you sampled or looked into any of the Arkansas varieties? I have 3, Gratitude (no fruit so far, but based on prior UofArk releases I am very optimistic,) Jupiter, and Neptune, plus a bunch of other varieties. Out of those many varieties I grow or have grown in the past, Jupiter is my favorite grape, slightly Muscat and nice crisp texture and decent sized berry, around 2.5+ gm. But haven't tried Reliance. I have read lots good things about it, especially for colder climates.

Like AltadenaMara, I like variety and complex flavors in my grapes, not just sweet. I also choose with disease resistance in mind. And I actually like growing small grapes because they make the best raisins, especially when the season progresses and all my varieties are producing more than we can eat fresh or turn to jam. Big grapes take too long or dry unevenly, using my vintage oven pilot light.

I grow plenty of grapes that I don't get upset if the birds go after some, but Big grapes get nibbled on by birds, then attract fruit beetles to do more damage. Birds just grab and go with the small grapes, so it is less of a problem. The two small grapes I grow are Canadice and Interlaken. Canadice is spicy and Interlaken is kind of citrus/ honey like. Canadice is the superior of the two varieties.

AltadenaMara, how do you like Reliance in SoCal?

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AltadenaMara

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HanburyHouse
AltadenaMara, how do you like Reliance in SoCal?


Reliance has surprised me with it sweet flavor and vigorous growth. It was slower than the other grapes to get established, but now is spreading out well and is productive. I must confess that on a hot day when the grapes become dryer and the flavors more concentrated, all of them taste very good.

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Gordenia

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So, you can not grow Cotton Candy grape from seeds?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordenia
So, you can not grow Cotton Candy grape from seeds?


No, successfully growing Cotton Candy grape from seed probably isn't likely. A Seedless grape vine can be used to pollinate a seeded variety, but the stenospermocarpic seeds in seedless grapes stop developing/abort and generally are not viable. Lon Rombough described grape breeding and Seedlessness much better than I can, in his book "The Grape Grower" which is an excellent resource for backyard grape growing, so is the website he created, bunchgrapes.com. I highly reccomend it, especially if you do want to grow your grape varieties from seed. With starting plants from seeds, not just grapes, you might not get a plant with all the same traits as the parent, including Seedlessness.

Please don't import any plant material from out of the country, via ebay, not without going through the proper channels. Illegal importation is how all sorts of awful stuff like HLB, citrus greening, and the insect that spread it got into this country and is destroying the citrus industry in Florida and is moving westward. Legal importation of plant material requires a quarantine period to screen for pests and disease and has fees and paperwork. There are other U.S. based growers listing kyoho on eBay. Here is one in SoCal I found, but it is just an example that there are sellers in U.S. http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAPANESE-GRAPE-KYOHO-DEEP-PURPLE-FLAVORFUL-1-Rooted-Vine-from-Cutting-/271823717787?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f49f4c59b

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HanburyHouse

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Reply with quote  #16 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AltadenaMara
Quote:
Originally Posted by HanburyHouse
AltadenaMara, how do you like Reliance in SoCal?


Reliance has surprised me with it sweet flavor and vigorous growth. It was slower than the other grapes to get established, but now is spreading out well and is productive. I must confess that on a hot day when the grapes become dryer and the flavors more concentrated, all of them taste very good.


Thanks! I didn't see it at the crfg scion exchanges this year, nor seen it anywhere locally, so I wasn't sure if it liked our climate as well as the Arkansas "Planetary" varieties.

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Gordenia

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Reply with quote  #17 
What about "Joy" new variety - seems very similar to Kyoho ?      Anybody has any information?
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AltadenaMara

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Joy, Faith, Gratitude, and Hope are the newest grape varieties coming out of the University of Arkansas’s research program to develop market style productive grapes for the wet, buggy South East. I don’t grow any of the new ones, but I grow their popular Jupiter variety on its own trellis.  It’s disappointing, to be honest. The flavor is bland and it didn’t even sweeten up to the point where it was worth picking last year. The birds weren’t as fussy. UoA's Venus was seedy and also bland-now gone. Their Reliance is good and actually has some flavor, even though it’s more mild than my favorites. It ripens at a good time between other good grape varieties.

 California is as much “grape paradise” as it is ‘fig paradise”, so all the factors that make a good supermarket grape aren’t as important for me. As a home gardener, I only grow fruit for their strong flavors and especially like the Muscat flavor in grapes. If I wanted bland, supermarket grapes, I’d buy them at the grocery store. I read somewhere that strong flavored grapes are weeded out by university programs because they don't sell to people raised on bland supermarket grapes and expect that lack of flavor. 


One of the most innovative programs in the local schools was a "Fruit of the Week" program sponsored as an extension of the school lunch program. The schools all provide fresh fruit at lunch time, like Red Delicious apples, but they taste so bad the children won't eat them. In "Fruit of the Week", one fruit was taught every few weeks with its own curriculum materials and the program provided quality fruit for the children to try in class and even take home. Fruit trees were planted at the schools. It resulted in more attention being given fresh fruits by the school lunch people, better quality fruit served and more fruit being eaten instead of dumped. I drove by one of the local schools where I worked at the time and only one fruit tree had survived over the years. I guess they weren't watered over the summer. One grandfather had started a strawberry patch there for the children but it passed when he did.     


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Mara  Southern California  Zone 1990= 9b   2012= 10a  2020=?

 

Gordenia

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Thank you for answer. Seems like you know more then other members about grape.
But after all this forum about figs, so I kind of understand members ignoring my questions.

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AltadenaMara

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I don't think people are ignoring the question. They just don't have an answer for you. As you said, this forum is about figs, not grapes. If I hadn't googled: grape vine "Joy", I wouldn't have known what you were talking about. Best of luck with it. 
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Mara  Southern California  Zone 1990= 9b   2012= 10a  2020=?

 

Gordenia

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Reply with quote  #21 
True.
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fignutty

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Reply with quote  #22 
My favorites are Flame, Summer Royal, Princess, and Crimson. These are better than the hardy seedless grapes like Reliance but have much less disease resistance and aren't as hardy.

The best tasting grape by far of any I've grown: Summer Muscat. Try that and you'll understand why Muscat flavored grapes are special. But the berries are small and crack badly even in my greenhouse.

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Steve in Alpine TX 7b/8a
Wish list:  Sangue Dolce, Siblawi, Victoria, Emalyn's Purple, Colonel Littman's Black Cross
Gordenia

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Thank you. I will try to see if it will grow in my climate.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fignutty

The best tasting grape by far of any I've grown: Summer Muscat. Try that and you'll understand why Muscat flavored grapes are special. But the berries are small and crack badly even in my greenhouse.

Thanks for your comment. Last year was my first year with Summer Muscat, so there wasn't much fruit. The birds beat me to most of them before they were ripe. After your post, I'm really looking forward to the harvest this year, might even bother with netting. It's in a prime spot in the back yard, sharing a trellis with Sweet Seduction.
    My Reliance is planted next to the sidewalk, so gets a double blast of heat from the sidewalk/street as well as above with full sun. This concentrates the flavors and makes it perhaps better than it would be otherwise.

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fignutty

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Mara:

Summer Muscat is definitely worth netting. Sure wish I could figure out how to grow bigger berries that don't crack. This is IMO one of the best flavored fruits anywhere anytime. Hope you like yours.

Gordenia:

Where are you located? The grapes I grow are very difficult in humid climates and a total loss where it drops below zero F.

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Steve in Alpine TX 7b/8a
Wish list:  Sangue Dolce, Siblawi, Victoria, Emalyn's Purple, Colonel Littman's Black Cross
Gordenia

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I grow grapes in pots and keep in basement during the winter.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fignutty
Mara: Summer Muscat is definitely worth netting. Sure wish I could figure out how to grow bigger berries that don't crack. This is IMO one of the best flavored fruits anywhere anytime. Hope you like yours. 

I was disappointed at first with the small size of the Blueberry grape which is the size of blueberries. It surprised me last year by being the earliest of any of my grapes. The flavor was unremarkable. But I just pretended they were blueberries, and since there was nothing else around to eat, it was okay. My poor blueberries are all struggling with the heat, drought, and mineral, alkaline water, haven't been productive for a while now. It's good to have something fruiting at that time. 

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Mara  Southern California  Zone 1990= 9b   2012= 10a  2020=?

 

Gordenia

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Yes, for some reason blueberries are not easy to grow. I have few pink bushes for 3 years- no berries yet.                 
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Reply with quote  #29 
I'm putting together my 2016 order right now, and I just found your grape.  It's not on my list because we only grow wine grapes of certain varietals that grow well and produce in our climate.  I'm looking to increase our vineyard production with the Groasis Waterboxx so that in our drought, we can still grow our vineyard with zero irrigation.

You probably already have this, but here you go......

456 DVIT 616 - Vitis vinifera subsp. vinifera - Kyoho - Japan -- rank: 934
DVIT 616 Vitis vinifera subsp. vinifera VITACEAE (wine grape) 'Kyoho' Developed in: Japan Maintained by the Natl. Germplasm ... loose; berry large; skin deep purple; flesh similar to vinifera, flavor foxy like Herbert; soluable solid contents varying ... Site Old Name ---------- ----------- ------ ------------------------------------------------ NOM-CHANGE 06-Aug-2002 SBML Vitis vinifera Source History Accession was developed. 1935. Japan. Developers ...
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/acchtml.pl?1007564 - 3468 bytes -


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Zone 9b, Southern California. "First year they sleep, Second year they creep, Third year they leap!"  Wish List:  I wish all of you happy fig collecting!  My wishes have been fulfilled!
Gordenia

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Thank you.      
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