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dfoster25

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Hello:

So, I've had good luck getting most of the twigs rooted and transferred from Sphagnum moss bags to soil and pots.   Some of them had green sprouts off the twigs right away and are growing well.   However, some of them that only had green buds have stalled.  They are rooted and just not popping their buds and some of the buds just dry up.   I've checked the root ball and the roots still look ok.  Not white, but light brown.  Fig roots are usually this color though and they look healthy.

Is this normal?   What do I do?  Just wait? Put them back in a warm storage tote.

Attached Images
jpeg not_sprouting_1.JPG (138.42 KB, 105 views)
jpeg not_sprouting_2.JPG (107.81 KB, 85 views)
jpeg not_sprouting.JPG (159.40 KB, 103 views)


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dfoster25

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Oh, & this is why I still claim the "Newbie Title" by the way.
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garden_whisperer

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
I would take roots over green growth at a cutting level any day of the week. i have some cuttings with sprouts and no roots and some as you say with healthy roots and no sprouts. as long as the roots are alive you will get sprouts in due time. some just may take awhile.
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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
My Maltese Falcon stalled like this since about end of november and it's finally slowly sprouting, I just left it and kept watering it, I don't know if it will keep growing but I just left it out in the light with the rest of the figs.  If you scratch the side of the cutting slight with your finger nail then you can see if it's still green, which I bet it is and if those buds never beak there should be some dormant buds that will come out.
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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfoster25
Hello:

So, I've had good luck getting most of the twigs rooted and transferred from Sphagnum moss bags to soil and pots.   Some of them had green sprouts off the twigs right away and are growing well.   However, some of them that only had green buds have stalled.  They are rooted and just not popping their buds and some of the buds just dry up.   I've checked the root ball and the roots still look ok.  Not white, but light brown.  Fig roots are usually this color though and they look healthy.

Is this normal?   What do I do?  Just wait? Put them back in a warm storage tote.

Let it be and there on their time not ours. ; )
jenniferarino83

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
I agree with Martin, leave it alone and stop smothering the poor thing silly :-)

Great job by the way. And for what it is worth, you got the basics down. I am happy for you

Jennifer
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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
did i mention my Socorro Black cutting didn't put out leaves till 4 months later? i'm surprised it's still alive. it was one of two tiny cuttings that i had so i didn't give up. i'll be pumping fertilizer this year and hope to get some figs off of it by next year. 
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lukeott

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Dan, Looking at the pics everything looks fine, just need a lttle patience. The only thing that I don't like is that you left way to much of the cutting above the soil line. I can see where you started the roots in spag. moss, then you didn't use all of them. They just died off above the soil line.  You really need to bury the cutting to the top node. Sometimes I even have the last node half under the soil. You don't get a bigger tree by having more cutting sticking out of the cup. I not saying you can't grow a cutting like you have it, just saying, give yourself better odds. You really need to find taller cups or container. The baggy's are cheap enough. I have some bags that I could send you if you want to try them, just let me know by pm or email.

luke
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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
By the way, it's not to late to bury more of the cutting.
dkirtexas

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
I did scratch testing today on some cuttings I started in first week of September, still green, no leaves, don't know about roots, crazy, cuttings taken off the same limb, with same everything are 8" tall with 4-5 leaves!  LSU figs are really crazy sometimes, some are great and some are really slow, no rhyme or reason to them.

Patience is the key
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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
this one is Conadria Paradise Nursery. it's been in the bin for.. i don't remember. but i have 3 out of 36 cups that i moved that's not doing anything. i noticed it today while airing the bin. 

give it time. 

Inline image

Attached Images
jpeg IMG_0485.JPG (107.12 KB, 321 views)
jpeg IMG_0486.JPG (140.01 KB, 49 views)


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Pete
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OttawanZ5

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
I agree with the posts suggesting not to worry about the (no-) shoots if there are plenty of roots as is the case with your cutting.
I had the same situation with a number of cuttings. The roots were increasing but the bud at the top node did swell a bit in the first week but then stopped at that size for many weeks. I had no concern knowing that apical dominance does not work at this stage so some other bud at a node inside the rooting medium must have taken over and growing. After a few weeks I saw the rooting medium bulging upward at two different locations and then saw two shoots emerging from the soil while the main cutting stayed as it was with the top bud still alive but almost dormant. 
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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
ifferant cuttings root and shoot at differant times, even cuttings from the same tree. i have some sals c and sals g cuttings that some are rooted and leafy and some dont even have roots but bursting buds. others have roots and no top growth.

i found my  problem at first with rooting cuttings was wanting to know what was going on. i assumed if it was growing on top its growing on bottem. i have killed many cuttings in my day looking to see if they had roots starting. (baggie method never worked for me) so i always plant right in a pot. now i am using 16 oz clear cups from walmart. i have lost 5 out of 200 and thats only because i scored to deep. see my post on score rooting in perlte. now that i can look in and see roots without disterbing them my root rate has jumped dramaticly.
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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
5 in 200? that is fabulous... good for you!
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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
It looks fine, and the roots look good, IMO.
Leave it alone and let it grow in its own time.
ForeverFigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
   Question for Luke (lukeott).  I'm new at this, so this question is not a challenge, but I'm just trying to clarify things in my own head.  In your reply #9 you said that it's still not too late to burry the cutting deeper.  I've always been told that when you transplant that you should never bury deeper than the original soil line, that it will damage or kill the plant.  Does that problem only apply to more mature trees and not to cuttings?  I have wanted to go deeper with some of my cuttings when transplanting from 32oz. deli cups to 1gal. pots.  But I always hesitated to do so because of what I thought was the rule of thumb about soil line.  Maybe Luke or some other members could help me out with this one.  Thanks.
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dfoster25

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Just read all the response.   Thanks for the advice.   If there is one thing I've learned with figs, it's you have to have patience.  They take their sweet time doing everything, but patience is not always a virtue I have.

I'm dealing with 5" pots along with 8-10" cuttings.   I had one cutting die because the cutting was touching the bottom of the container.   It wilted similar to a post I saw last night.   When I popped it out the stem had rotted.   Too much water was also a combination of the problem there.   Long story, but I try to put at least 1/2" of soil in the bottom of the pot first when planting.

I shall just wait I guess.
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dfoster25

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Here's an update.

Most of the figs that have went south are White(woody) Genoa from an Ebay seller.  Out of 10, I may get 1 good plant.  I'm not really worried on missing out on this variety, but it's the principle of the whole thing.  I don't like failure. The wood is black and the sprouts shrivel and die.  Roots turn brown and the plant just seems to run out of gas and die.

Today was a frustrating and dissapointing day.   On the ones that are not doing anything, I decided to pop the cuttings out of their pots and look for roots.  Several are rooted fine, but still just sitting there.   However, I did find rotting:  1  Maltese Falcon (my only one), 2 Black Mission, several White (Woody) genoa.  You could say too wet, but I haven't done anything different that what I did with other varieties that are doing fine.   Due to storage of energy in the cuttings or variability beyond my control? 

Attached are pictures of the Black Mission.   This one came from a friend, and while Black Mission is not that unique of a fig, I was so looking forward to having success with it.

the two photos are a month apart. 

Attached Images
jpeg Rooted_Joh_Gaydos.JPG (441.92 KB, 66 views)
jpeg rotted_John_Gaydos.JPG (457.10 KB, 62 views)


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TONYSAC

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Cut it in half get rid of the rot put it back in the moss and let it root again and way more roots then in the first photo you just posted like 10 times that amount bigger then a golf ball worth of moss stuck to the cutting and then pot it up into perlite soil mix with the moss stuck to it ...It looks way to wet for my IMO.
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FiggyFrank

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
You might try adding more perlite to your mix once it roots.  What is your ratio now?
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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Get Physan 20 and water with that for the mold, I do agree that with most everyone that leaving it and watering very very careful is a good way to go, but I also like your idea of putting it into a warmer location to see if that doesn't wake it up. Oh and it is very likely that you do have shoots under the soil that are advancing faster than the visible stagnent shoot 
OctopusInc

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
I like to snip off the sprouts (and even the terminal bud) until roots form so the plant puts all of it's energy into roots rather than trying to develop leaves.  If you do this though make sure you cover the spots you cut with grafting wax, otherwise it will commit energy to sealing the wound.
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Dan,

Too much water might have been your culprit. But it also may have been soil and temperature. I have been using Perlite/MG Seed Starting mix with my cuttings in a 70/30 or 80/20 proportion. Potting soil and mixes are not sterile and are usually inoculated with mold and fungus spores unless they are sterilized. Once cupped, temperatures should be maintained about 75 deg F for fast root growth, at least for the first few weeks. I usually water the mix and let it drain, before potting the cutting and never "water in" just tap lightly on bottom of cup. Too much moisture will always cause root rot, until the roots are established.

The picture of the rooted cutting shows a well rooted and callused cutting, which should have grown nicely once placed in the cup. Did you use rooting hormone on the cutting?

<edit>
The pictures of your rooting and growing procedures look good.

From my initial rooting experiments last May, I found that temperature and moisture are the two factors that affect rooting the most. The cuttings will rot if they are too wet and or too warm. Being cold 50-60 degrees will only slow down rooting if the mix is not too wet (though it may increase chances of mold)

Measure the actual temperatures at the cuttings, you may be surprised.
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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
It is hard, but I try not to mess with it until I'm really sure it's ready to transplant.  Popping it in and out of the pot every day to check the roots when it's still young could break roots, weaken the cutting, and encourage rot. 
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lukeott

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Vince, When your starting cuttings the first thing you hope for is roots, because that's what feeds the plant. Doesn't always work that way, but you want to have the most possible chance for roots to grow. If you look closely at one of Dan's first pictures, he had roots growing near the top of the cutting. But when planted in short cup, the roots just died, instead of feeding the plant. You ask about planting and what is normal for other trees or bushes. Fig cutting are not the same. They do not have an established root ball that form into it's desire depth or a trunk. Once the cutting has taken enough to transplant into a larger container or ground, you can plant all of cutting if so desired, just leaving your new growth above soil level. If you look back in past post, you will see how some members do not like the shape from a single branch growing sideways. So when they transplanted, they buried it on it's side, so the branch is sticking straight up. I'm not very good at explaining with words, so hopefully I made sense.


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dfoster25

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
I used a mix of Fafard 52 along with 50% perlite.  So my guess would be it has about 60-70% perlite. 

Yes, I use Dip N Gro at 1:10.  Maybe this is causing too much roots to form that the plants can't support.  

The Black Mission cuttings were short, a little green, but rooted great from the sphagnum moss bags.   I've had cuttings from Navid, RCantor for example that just went nutzoid and rooted/sprouted without problems.   There just seems to be so much variability from source to source and variety to variety.

I potted these up initially about 4 wks ago and put them in a clear tote with the lid on, by the window.   It seemed cold to me and so I moved them over the register a few weeks ago, but I think the damage was already done.

The ones that are left are rooted, but still not doing anything after a month. But as I said, I will continue to wait.  Roots are a light brown color.

Thanks to everyone that is trying to help out.   The loss of the Maltese Falcon really ticks me off.  I'll try to add some more photos soon.
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dfoster25

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 

photo 1  shows what the figs look like in the tote

Photo 2 shows how the tote is situated over the heat vent

photo 3 is the tote covered with towels to trap heat

photo 4 shows figs growing next to the window at the beginning of the growing stages.  There are Hollier figs that are younger than the ones that are still sitting there in the dormant tote.  Some of the Genoa figs were at this stage when they began wilting.

Photo 5 shows my third and oldest tote full of leafed out figs.

thanks

Attached Images
jpeg fig_in_the_tote.JPG (46.29 KB, 42 views)
jpeg tub_over_vent.JPG (28.51 KB, 33 views)
jpeg covered.JPG (25.94 KB, 20 views)
jpeg stage_1.JPG (46.47 KB, 40 views)
jpeg stage_2.JPG (43.58 KB, 39 views)


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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
Looks fine, they do stall sometimes.  If you are worried, sometimes the winter's effect in the coldness of the floor will affect the speed, so a 80 - 90 degree seedling heating mat under your tub/tote may help encourage wakening and snuggling of the babies!
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dfoster25

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
I placed a thermometer in the plastic tote.   The reading is 80 degrees.
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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Dan, I've started my cuttings at the same time - Dec 22, all started in damp sp moss.  A few rooted within 7 days, I waited for more roots and cupped on the 16th.  there are some that haven't rooted yet and are still in sp moss.

Out of those I cupped on day 16, about 7, 3 had sprouted out, about a week later 3 more sprouted and the 7th is just starting.  I've cupped up 3 more about a week ago, s are just starting an the third is growing roots and it looks like the terminal bud dried - but there are roots!!
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dfoster25

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Tiny-Worms-4516006

Update.  I lost all 9 of the White Genoa and a JH adriatic (from another source).    I had hopes of being able to save 1 of the 9, but sure enough, the leaves began to wilt yesterday and it's gone.

Above is a link to another thread, but I don't think my problem is the same.   Attached are 4 photos showing the best I can what I'm seeing.  I believe these are neither microscopic nematodes or Fungus gnat larvae.  

Not really worried about the White genoa.  I'm worried about it spreading, as it may already have done to the JH adriatic.

Any ideas what these are? 

Attached Images
jpeg Genoa_twig.JPG (67.31 KB, 25 views)
jpeg genoa_worm_1.JPG (98.82 KB, 32 views)
jpeg genoa_worm_2.JPG (108.10 KB, 32 views)
jpeg genoa_worm_3.JPG (162.11 KB, 35 views)


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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
It seems to be caused by soil being too wet and at the same time it remains too cool.  Too much water keeps the soil cold and it causes rot. I have had the same problem a few times. We are so afraid of drought that we drown our plants.
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dfoster25

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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Thanks Sal. Ordinarily, I would agree. But those white worms are troubling me because I don't know what they are. I had healthy roots and top growth only to have this come in and take them out. Not happening on most of the other varieties. Yet!
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Posted Reply with quote  #34 

Yeah fungus gnat larvae have a dark head, and a darker midline.  I agree that it isn't that - at least from the pics.  I have no idea... :P  Hopefully someone can help out...
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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
Few years back i was rooting in S.Moss and noticed those white wiggly things.
They my have been in yours to begin with as well.
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Posted Reply with quote  #36 

I had similar. I was able to cut the damage area and start the rooting process again. I saved a few. I did not see these worms you have, but my cuttings were soft and something had eaten the middle core of the cutting.  Sucks! that is all I can say. It sucks!
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