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gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #1  
I recently tasted my first Improved Celeste (O’Rourke) fruit and 
was impressed...


EDIT 9/20/08: MY IMPROVED CELESTE IS NOT AN O'ROURKE!
              THE LEAVES DO NOT MATCH THE DESCRIPTION.
              (added leaf picture, also see post #6)

Attached Images
jpeg ImprovedCel2_W.jpg (112.56 KB, 738 views)
jpeg ImprovedCeleste1_W.jpg (246.30 KB, 667 views)


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George, NJ_z7a.

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 

How different is it from regular Celeste? LU improved it by crossing it with a capri fig as I understand, but what changed? is the flavor any different?
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gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
My taste buds are no longer that good! All I can say it tasted pretty good , for example
better than the Golden Celeste (Champagne - see pic).
Of course all figs are moody, and one should never count on any one single opinion.
Also, can anybody show a pic of  the Giant Celeste (Tiger), mine is still on order.
All these 3 figs came from LSU and were recently officially released/re-named.
(added leaf picture 9/20/08).

Attached Images
jpeg GoldenCeleste_w.jpg (106.32 KB, 146 views)
jpeg GoldenCel2_W.jpg (206.16 KB, 101 views)


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gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Actually, I think that I no longer have a 'standard' Celeste fruit to compare it with.
I had a 15+++ year old (Tiny) Celeste;  I dubbed the 'Tiny' part, because up to
this day the fruit remains the tiniest produced fig on my property.  Two years
ago, I needed to destroy the (in-ground) mother plant after saving tons of cuttings.
I do recall that the fruit was very sweet (typical of any Celeste), but my new cutting
has not produced fruit yet; so it has been quite a while since I tasted any
standard Celeste fig.
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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks,
on my shopping list I have Tiger (giant celeste), and O'Rourke (Improved Celeste). I got the Golden Celeste.
I spoke to mr. robin and mentioned that LSU Everbearing splits very badly when it rains.

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gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #6  
MY IMPROVED CELESTE IS NOT AN O'ROURKE!
THE LEAVES DO NOT MATCH THE DESCRIPTION.
I just emailed my source for a possible
explanation and/or id of my IC.

 
Attached Files
pdf LSUnew_figs.pdf (202.46 KB, 289 views)


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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
George,
good catch, after reviewing the photos, your improved celeste might be a Giant Celeste. At least the leaves on your tree closely resemble the giant celeste (tiger).
Who's your Source?
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gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
My source is (SSE - GA IN C 06);  Improved Celeste (described as:
another newer fig, from friend, from Louisiana).

I was alerted by a good fig-poster via private email (thanks!) to check the leaves,
because of own similar IC mishap occurring from yet another source (LA).
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Posted Reply with quote  #9 

Is the UCD Golden Celeste the same as the LSU one that was renamed Champagne?
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gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
>>> Is the UCD Golden Celeste the same as the LSU one that was renamed Champagne?

No , see:
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/figs4funforum/vpost?id=2894998&highlight=golden
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Posted Reply with quote  #11 

The "Not" improved Celeste does look like the "Mega Celeste".
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gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
I did not think so, I do have a Mega Celeste next to it that produced some earlier
fruit and they looked different to me.
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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
I guess that my Improved Celeste fruit in post #1 was not really the first.
I just discovered a picture taken ~1 week earlier.

Attached Images
jpeg ImprovedCelesteFruit_W.jpg (172.98 KB, 588 views)


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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
So, if my Improved Celeste is an O'Rourke_NOT; does anybody know of
any source that carries the true O'Rourke fig (with Brunswick like leaves).
Is it possible that my 2006 IC is not fully mature yet?
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gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 

I now think that I get it!

There are 2 distinct fig cultivars that are different.
(a) Improved Celeste (has been circulating for a while)
and
(b) O'Rourke (the new LSU release).

Prof E.N. O'Rourke (the person) bred many figs at LSU, one of them was recently named after him.

I, like some other fig people, was under the WRONG impression that IC = O'R.
There is nothing in the LSU document that relates the two figs.

And therefore, my IC is just that (an IC).

Note the distinctive leaf shape of the real "Rourke" fig shown in the LSU document (post #6).
 
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gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
With the help of a good fig-friend, I am currently rooting some
(genuine) O'Rourke fig twigs. Hoping that at least one of them will make it.
Yes, they came very recently  direct from LSU....
Looking forward to see how the fruit compares with my Improved Celeste.
Pl. do not misunderstand me; I do love the IC I have; it is a keeper....
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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
I already know they are both "excellent" tasting siblng figs and both are worth having in a fig collection. The many gaps in this particular tread came about when I deleted all of my former postings on this fig forum.

Dan
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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Spread them around Gorgi...........I DID
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Dan_la

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Cecil, there was a time when LSU had full intentions of selling exclusive licensing rights to the O'Rourke, Champagne, and their Tiger fig....and "spreading them around" would have been frowned upon by anyone purchasing those rights. ALL of those who had been sent bid offers (I saw and read one that was sent to a retail nursery) from LSU, chose not to buy those exclusive retailing rights because they did not see any way to make any money out of it. And they assumed these particular figs were already out in circulation. Assumpitons made by LSU and assumptions made by local retail nurseries are at the core of the LSU fig confusion that we now see today. There is more to this story that I will not put on the internet........

Dan
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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Dan,

When I asked for those cuttings from LSU (you know who I'm talking about)

I told him I fully intended to "spread them around" nothing was said about me not doing that..........So I kept my word and am damn proud of it~!
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Dan_la

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
No problem Cecil.....remember I am responding to this particular thread that was written in 2009 and all of my original posts to this tread are no longer there as I've stated. And I believe that you know why they are no longer there. When you received those cuttings it was AFTER the bidding process was over. I remember when you got them. There was a lot of stuff going on before you obtained those cuttings and during the time of this thread..........and a lot of clarifications that have been made since then.  Some other relevant stuff that I know about the confusion that exists, just cannot be put on the Internet.......

Dan
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gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
Hi Cecil,
You know I sure will. Actually, I already gave a twig to a fig-friend,
who I am sure, will later distribute it further...
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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Hi gorgi,

Your past history tells me you will share them, that's good!
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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
@ Gorgi  -- I am at my brother's place(Malaysia) and has 2 LSU Tiger figs in ripening state. It's a coloured fig. I will email picture to you as I do not know how to post here.
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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
I just went out and checked my little O'Rourke IC

It has at least 2 main cropper figs on it now!  Maybe more to come!

This was planted in March this Yr. in ground.(rooted in 010)

I will post pix when and if they ripen.
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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
I purchased my O'rourke about 2 years ago from Mr Robin. Currently it is loaded with figs even though still a pretty small tree. Until I read this thread, I thought O'rourke and Improved Celeste were the same, but thanks to Dan's description of the lobed leaves I now know that my tree is definitely the O'
Rourke. So now I have to find me an Improved Celeste. I would be happy to exchange scion or purchase a plant if some one is willing...   

Barry
gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Barry,

I bought an O'Rourke from JR ~2-3 years ago.
Sorry to say, the young leaves seemed not to be consistent with
LSU 's description for O'R's.

Also read a similar report from another fig person.

Not sure if mine is still alive, I  may need to go hunting it down
and re-examine the leaves..

Most probably it is one of the Improved Celeste's.
Still a very good fig, if you do not already have one.
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Posted Reply with quote  #28 

Now I'm confused.

gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Look at my post #6.

There is an LSU .pdf file attached with pics that shows how (mature) O'R leaves
should look like (Brunswick finger-like).
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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
George,

I see what you mean, my leaves do not look like those in the pic of O'rouke leaves, however, my tree does have a couple leaves with 5 lobes, so going by what Dan said I thought I had the answer.
gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Five lobes should do it (being an O'R)....
Now I really need to go hunt mine down...
JR tends to change fig-twig sources from year to year.
Thanks.
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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
Here are pix of my O'Rourke and Not O'Rourke leafs

Attached Images
jpeg Improved_celeste-O'Rourke_leafs_(Medium)_(Medium).JPG (50.90 KB, 97 views)


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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
I checked the F4F section in hopes of finding more information about IC and O'Rourke. I didn't find O'Rourke, but found a listing for "IC Not". Is this O'Rourke, or something else?? What are the important differences (i.e., not in terms of telling them apart, but of flavor, fruit size, productivity, hardiness, souring/splitting, fruit drop, heat tolerance, etc.) between IC and O'Rourke?
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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
Ken,

I cant help you on the taste because both of my IC & O'Rourke are only in the second year.

The Leafs in the photo are as follows, from left to right

O'Rourke from James Robin

center is O'Rourke from LSU

Right is LSU IC not_O'Rourke from Vinnie Johns

I hope that helps?
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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
George,
Thanks for starting this topic. It was one of the first that I found that documented the IC and O'Rourke. It also helped to clarify the confusion of the released and unreleased LSU cultivars. Attached are pictures of my improved Celeste. It has been ripening figs in the current colder temperatures (30's to 40's nights and 60's days) and they are sweeter than those that ripened a month ago, it has also been drier. This cultivar has also proven to be cold hardy and is earlier and more productive than the O'Rourke. It also may be one of the most underrated fig cultivars.

BTW, I think that the Champagne is a good tasting, productive cultivar, although it is not as cold hardy as the improved Celeste.

Attached Images
jpeg LeafS_Celeste_improvedCelestePP_9-21-13.jpg (145.28 KB, 53 views)
jpeg FigS_Celeste_improvedCelestePP_9-22-13.jpg (82.52 KB, 57 views)
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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
@Pete - In a previous thread a great discussion was presented on the LSU Improved Celeste and O'Rourke fig issue.

The post was in July of this year and was stared by JD.  This thread presents the recollections of the LSU Fig Field Day this year and Dr Charlie Johnson's discussion on this topic.  If I could do a copy and paste with my Mozilla Browser I would but I can't.  I think I believe that there is no Improved Celeste, I am not sure.

I have O'Rourke and Champagne and am looking forward to next year.
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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
Danny,
That is true. There is no released Improved Celeste, because the Released Improved Celeste is O'Rourke. LSU Field Day Topic,
LSU Improved Celeste Discussion
There are several improved Celeste, one of which is pictured and has been discussed for several years. Also discussed (in that topic and in earlier topics) was that there were several cultivars that were allowed to be trialed off site (or were spirited off site) over the decades that testing was being done at LSU. I personally have 2 other figs that were purchased as improved Celeste, but were "good" Celeste that did not drop figs and were 30% to 50% larger than regular Celeste, but had the same Celeste look and Taste.
The distinction would be whether it is an LSU Released version or not. From that discussion and others, it seems that there are several cultivars in circulation that are not released versions.
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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
Pete,

What is the taste difference between IC(O'Rourke Not) and the other IC's.  And do the others ripen as early?  I have an IC that I started from cutting early this spring, no ripe fruit this year, it has mostly 3 lobe with some 5 lobe leaves. I was hoping it was going to be the 1-3 lobe IC(O'Rourke Not) that ripens early and holds brebas. I guess I'm trying to determine whether I need to pursue cuttings from that IC(ON) again or not.
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
Calvin,
IMO, the improved Celeste that look like large Celeste have the same taste as Celeste, Very sweet with a light brown sugar after taste. The IC (not) pictured has a light maple flavor (or raw cane sugar) and is not as sweet as regular Celeste. The Celeste cultivars all seem to be early ripening, if kept above freezing temperatures over winter.

The pictured IC (not) will have 5 lobes (or 3 lobed with thumbs) when it is over fertilized or grown rapidly (longer internode spacing). You will have to wait for the second year to see if you have the correct cultivar. I attached additional pictures of leaves and figs under the fig of the Day "Celeste" Topic

<edit> I have not been growing them long enough to be able to answer that question as to ripening dates. I will say that the IC-Not has been ripening figs continuously for a month, while the other Celeste ripened their figs almost all at once.
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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
Thankyou.
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