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susieqz

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
in the far distant past i read that waste water could be  used for veggies.

i have a plumber that can have my kitchen sink vent into a hose. i'm not gonna try the washing machine with all those dyes.

no poisons go in my sink, but there's soap and little food particals and grease. i think that's like low grade fertilizer.

thing is, there's also lots of salt. i've often looked at pasta water and thot it seems  nutrient  rich but i've never used it because it has lots of salt.

the soil here is alkaline, so much
so that i'm not sure i can even use lime on my figs.

so, that's the question. can i use kitchen water on inground figs? if i can, i can grow more figs.

if not can you think of other plants that can use this water? i'm planning on kiwis, wisteria, honeysuckle and lilacs.
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susie 
wish list:  nothing. i can't grow cuttings  . right now, i have  6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' 

i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Susie,
I believe that by Code the Kitchen Sink is not considered Grey Water. It is treated the same as a Flush Toilet (Black) due to solids and bacterial contamination. The washing machine waste is considered Grey. Some explanations are available at this website.
Quote:

In New Mexico, no permit is required to use a greywater system when the flow is less than 250 gallons per day.

More information

House Bill 711, passed in 2005, related to water:

shall not require a permit for applying less than two hundred fifty gallons per day of private residential gray water originating from a residence for the resident's household gardening, composting or landscape irrigation if:

  1. a constructed gray water distribution system provides for overflow into the sewer system or on-site
    wastewater treatment and disposal system;
  2. a gray water storage tank is covered to restrict access and to eliminate habitat for mosquitos or other
    vectors;
  3. a gray water system is sited outside of a floodway;
  4. gray water is vertically separated at least five feet above the ground water table;
  5. gray water pressure piping is clearly identified as a nonpotable water conduit;
  6. gray water is used on the site where it is generated and does not run off the property lines;
  7. gray water is applied in a manner that minimizes the potential for contact with people or domestic pets;
  8. ponding is prohibited, application of gray water is managed to minimize standing water on the surface and to ensure that the hydraulic capacity of the soil is not exceeded;
  9. gray water is not sprayed;
  10. gray water is not discharged to a watercourse; and
  11. gray water use within municipalities or counties complies with all applicable municipal or county
    ordinances enacted pursuant to Chapter 3, Article 53 NMSA 1978;

For the expert

Read the full version of the greywater regulation in New Mexico here.

and
Quote:

What is greywater?

 Greywater is the water that comes from your baths, showers and washing machines.

Recycling household greywater for gardening use is an excellent way of saving water and saving money! Unlike rainwater, which is only seasonally available, greywater is available every time you shower or wash your clothes.

How can I use greywater?

Greywater is suitable for irrigating most garden areas including ornamental beds and lawns. Even native gardens can thrive with greywater, simply alter the type of detergent that you use to one that is low or has no phosphorus.

and their Grey water recycling product...
How Aqua2use Grey Water Systems work

BTW, Gypsum is recommended for use on alkaline soils to increase the Calcium levels.
Good Luck.
bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
hmm... sounds interesting. but wouldn't that water promote mold and all sort of Nast stuff?
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Pete
Durham, NC
Zone 7b

"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
susieqz

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
well pete s,i'm ignoring codes due to my wilderness location. what is gray water then?

um, mold? will that grow in the desert? pete, are you saying this might make me sick?

if there's a chance of eating unhealthy figs i can use this on non food crops, if salt isn't a problem.
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susie 
wish list:  nothing. i can't grow cuttings  . right now, i have  6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' 

i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.
WillsC

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Far as I know a sink would be considered gray water same as washing machine water.  The term black water I thought was reserved for water that came in to contact with animal (including human) waste.  Had to look it up...Pete is right.  Water from sinks other than the kitchen sink is graywater but from the kitchen sink it is considered blackwater.....go figure.  
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Susie,
If you process meat (wash) in your kitchen sink, you can have bacterial contamination of the waste water, That's why by Code its considered Black.
This website also has a simple system for grey water reuse with some explanations,
Quote:
Greywater or graywater is household waste water from all plumbing fixtures except toilet and garbage disposal, which is blackwater. Rural homeowners with individual sewage disposal septic systems commonly divert at least their washing machine water away from the septic tank. The longer your septic tank has time to settle out solids, the better. And the less bacteria killing soaps and detergents in your septic tank, the better. Diverting graywater also reduces the load carried by your septic system leach field, greatly extending its life expectancy and effectiveness. In recent years, attention has been drawn to recycling graywater to conserve water and make better use of its fertilizer potential. Phosphate rich soaps and cleaning chemicals are considered pollutants when discharged directly into waterways, primarily because they accelerate algae growth, which in turn leads to oxygen depletion for fish and other marine life. The beauty of this 'pollutant problem' is the fact that mild household cleaning supplies are excellent sources of nutrition as liquid fertilizer for irrigation of trees, privacy hedge rows, and ornamental planterbeds.
It can be as simple as being filtered, like the posted diagram above (Step 2 Filter).

 Also another Website with pages of information and diagrams on greywater. And a simple approved design from the website
Good luck
susieqz

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
thanks, will 'm thinking washing machine water might poison me.

thing is, we are starting year four of a sever drought. this place is a desert and water conservation is a way of life.
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susie 
wish list:  nothing. i can't grow cuttings  . right now, i have  6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' 

i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.
susieqz

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
ooh pete, yuck! is that contamination hurtful to plants? or people thateat plants?
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susie 
wish list:  nothing. i can't grow cuttings  . right now, i have  6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' 

i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.
Chivas

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Dish soap will act as a wetting agent to the soil (although not to a great degree since usually most people don't do dishes with a great amount of soap) and a little bit of salt won't hurt the plants, sodium is needed and some farmers actually add sea salt to their fields when needed based on soil tests, my guess is you wouldn't have a ton of salt in your dish water.
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susieqz

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
thank you, chivas. i'll at least use it on non food plants, since pete s says i can filter thru sand.

the bacterial contamination thing scares me. guess i won't use it on figs.
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susie 
wish list:  nothing. i can't grow cuttings  . right now, i have  6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' 

i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.
hardycincinnatifig

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
I use anything but meat and human solid waste.  I maintain a low salt diet,  drink lots of water,  low meat, and high in fruits and vegetables.  This assures a pure clean source of urine of low salt for my trees and annual veggies.  Keep in mind that some plants are damaged and kill by urine.  Soap water from dishes will hydrate dry soils much better than pure water so I mix my fertilizer in this water.  If you use a wash pan it is easy to just dump where you kneed it most.  Washing machine can drain in a 55 gallon drum with an over flow to drain and a valve outlet in the bottom to fill a watering can.  

DON'T GET CAUGHT if it is illeagle in your area
susieqz

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
thankyou hardycinci. the washing machine is full of chemical dye tho. not sure i want that on food crops.
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susie 
wish list:  nothing. i can't grow cuttings  . right now, i have  6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' 

i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.
dkirtexas

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
The largest fig tree I have ever seen was in a back yard in Valdosta Georgia and it was over 50 yrs old and had dishwater draining straight from the sink to the tree.  The thing that amazes me today was that it did not kill it due to the amount of water straight on the roots.  Who knows about the bacteria, mold, and other things but there was a hog pen probably 100 ft away and who knows what was in the soil there.  Everyone, including myself ate the figs and the only ill effects were from eating too many!

Suzie, most of us do not understand the water issues that you have in NM, use the water that you have is my advice.
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Thx, glad to be here

Danny K "EL CAZADOR DE HIGO"
Waskom Tx Zone 7B/8

Wish list: anything anyone wants me to have. LSU RED.  Any LSU fig.
susieqz

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
THANKS DANNY.

 the drought is going into its forth year.  the government classifies this place as  semi arid grassland, which means only good for cows. but now its desert. very nasty.

the amount of figs i grow is determined by the water i can provide. i have plenty of land but it's  worthless. mostly, everything is brown. that's why i fenced in a small area that i can water, but even there i can't have a lawn. i'll use  very expensive astroturf instead.

when it might not rain for 6 months at a strech, you have to be creative with water.
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susie 
wish list:  nothing. i can't grow cuttings  . right now, i have  6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' 

i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.
Tonycm

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Susie I would use the sink water for the trees. My guess is any bacteria would probably be kept in check by other organisms breaking down to a neutral substance or it just simply not affect the tree at all. Straight Washing machine water might be harmful to the tree with the stronger soaps, bleach or fabric softeners etc. so I would stay away from that.
   If you have a leech bed that would be ok. The overflow for my septic system comes out and keeps the ground moist near a pecan tree. It's been coming out like that since the 1940's, in fact the whole neighborhoods systems are the same as mine. Needless to say the tree is rather large. We eat the pecans from it and it hasn't gotten anyone sick or 6 feet under yet. The only thing I wouldn't do is to plant a root crop like potatoes, then things might be a bit iffy.
Get wild and crazy and give it a go.
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BexleyRabbit

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Personally, I wouldn't risk any gray water on fruit especially figs.
Ong888

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Suzie.... I do not know the regulation for the water waste in USA, but for my experience....... The tree, they need the water and not only clean water that can help them to produce a good fruits...... I always use water waste from my kitchen ( not the one with soap content ) to water my fruit tree ( not spray the water waste on the trunk or the leaf just around the tree soil ) and that increased the fruits amount and the growth of the tree. They have bigger leaf and more prolific. That just my experience, and I'm not saying as a scientific guy...... Especially the water from the meat wash...... They contain more substances that the tree needed. Or you can fermentation the organic waste ......



Ong

Jakarta, Indonesia
susieqz

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
thanks everyone. all these great replies have given me  much great  data. since both tony and ong actually have trees that are using questionable water i guess i'll try that.

my well will only pump  a limited amount of water per day.
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susie 
wish list:  nothing. i can't grow cuttings  . right now, i have  6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' 

i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.
ADelmanto

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Suzie,

I design and build rainwater harvesting systems. I made some assumptions and based on 17" of rain per year and one side of your roof being approx 75' x 20' if you could harvest all of that water you would be able to use approx 14,000 gallons per year.

http://www.oregonapwa.org/conference/fall09/Presentations/RainHarvest.pdf

http://www.rainxchange.com/

You can plug in your info in the design calculations in the upper right side of the above link to see how much water you can harvest in your exact location. If you added all of the downspouts from your house you can double the amount I mentioned.

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susieqz

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
thank you AD.  we used to get 20'' of rain, but now it's under 10'. in summer when i need it it can be zero.

but. i've bookmarked those sites for when it gets back to normal, if it ever does.
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susie 
wish list:  nothing. i can't grow cuttings  . right now, i have  6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' 

i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.
ADelmanto

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
You said the reason you wanted to use a grey water system was because you can only get a limited amount of water from your well per day. If you used some kind of holding area weather it be an above or underground system, you could fill it very slowly all winter from the well, and use that water all summer. I would think you would want a 5000 gallon system underground, basically fill it for 8 months and use it for 4 months.
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susieqz

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
thanks AD. i'll look into that, but a 5000 gal tank may be beyond the reach of my finances. i just spent $2500 plus 100s of hours of labor to build a fence to protect my garden from sand storms. they used to be once/year, but last year they were every few days.
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susie 
wish list:  nothing. i can't grow cuttings  . right now, i have  6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' 

i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.
susieqz

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
yeah dan.  i'll be mulching like crazy. i'm thinking a layer of cardboard with 4'' of pine bark on top of that. living area will have  astroturf to hold in any rain water i happen to get.
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susie 
wish list:  nothing. i can't grow cuttings  . right now, i have  6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' 

i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Susie,
Your greywater could also be routed to a passive contoured swale (utilizing the soil and mulch as the filter) for watering your trees. Watch the attached Video, they produced Edible Figs in the first year in the desert... The "swale" would replace the "mulch basin" from this "Approved Design" (http://www.oasisdesign.net/greywater/createanoasis/LaundryToLandscape.pdf) and meets "Code" as posted earlier.  Good luck.
[lid101_new]



More Videos of the constructed desert swale. http://www.youtube.com/user/Livingwithnatute/videos

and files explaining design and construction..
http://permaculturetokyo.blogspot.com/2007/03/water-catchment-strategies-for-drylands.html
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/stormwater/standard-details

Google search "swales for water retention"

 
Attached Files
pdf LID300.pdf (33.20 KB, 4 views)
pdf LID302.pdf (39.15 KB, 4 views)
pdf LID303.pdf (37.63 KB, 4 views)
susieqz

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
thank you pete. i'll study these in detail.
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susie 
wish list:  nothing. i can't grow cuttings  . right now, i have  6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' 

i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.
susieqz

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
YOW, PETE!!
i can actually do that!

I SHALL DO THAT !
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susie 
wish list:  nothing. i can't grow cuttings  . right now, i have  6 trees showing no signs of fmv. i'd like to keep it that way' 

i was told that if i couldn't deal with fmv, i should grow peaches, so i got a peach tree to live with my clean figs.
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