Convert any small container into a SIP...Sub-Irrigated Planter for Growing Cuttings

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ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1388123273	Reply with quote #1

Only tools required for an existing container are a tape measure and scissors. "Almost any container can be converted easily and inexpensively into a functional SIP", as I posted in an earlier SIP Topic (by member nycfig). This topic was started as "proof of concept"... The Mini SIP or Miniature Sub-Irrigated Planter has a lot of positive benefits as it pertains to growing rooted fig cutting or starting fig cuttings, it provides for simple "automatic" watering of the potting mix. With a minimal investment in time and material any existing or new Cup, Deli Container, 1 gallon Nursery Pot, plastic grow bag or Band Pot can be converted into a Mini Sub Irrigated planter. The 2 required materials are wicking fabric (Pellon Thermolam Plus TP970) and Pea Gravel or Foam Peanuts. They are used to form an Aeration platform, Wick and Water Reservoir, these are all that are required for any container. 1. The wicking fabric is cut into strips and placed in the bottom of the container, extending up 3-inches into the potting mix, the actual strip width is 1 inch for containers smaller than 1 gallon, 1-1/2 inch for 1 gallon. the length is 8 inches plus the bottom diameter of the container. For 1 gallon nursery pots this is approximately 14 inches long. 2. 1-inch deep gravel or foam is then placed in the bottom of the container, to form a reservoir and or the aeration platform (aerated bottom of the potting mix container). 3. The container is then filled with pre wetted mix and planted with the pre-rooted cutting. The reservoir is only filled (if it has a built in reservoir) or placed in the filled watering container (separate reservoir or tray) when the potting mix is almost dry. If rooting the cutting directly in the container, the reservoir is left empty. The reservoir should only be filled once the plant has started growing (roots and leaves). Costs: 1 Yard of 45-inch wide Pellon Thermolam Plus TP970... $3.97 @ Walmart. (enough for at least 69 with 10% waste... 1 gallon containers @ $0.07 each) 1/2 Cubic foot bag of Gravel... $3.68 @ HomeDepot. (Enough for 30... 1 gallon containers @0.14 each) Total; Additional cost to convert 30 containers only is $8.30 or $0.28 each... for 60 containers its $0.21 each Additional time is cutting strips and their placement in the bottom of container before filling with potting mix... Less than one minute per container. The only other consideration is the potting mix's ability to wick the required amount of moisture, in the case on fig cuttings, a minimal amount is required. A mix of Coir, Peat and sifted Perlite @ 2-2-1 or a Peat and Perlite @ 3-2 works well. You will have to test the wicking ability of your preferred mix. Note: cotton fabrics (Terry and Denim) have been used successfully as wicks, but Thermolam TP970 has been tested with consistent results. I personally have used Pellon Thermolam Plus as a wick in SIPs for over 4 years. I will not be starting my cuttings until march, but I will be fabricating all my mini SIPs, 5 gallon Easy SIPs, 30 and 55 gallon barrel SIPs for Spring Planting. I will also be testing several different mix recipes for their ease of manufacture and wicking ability. The results will be posted in this Topic. Soda Bottle SIP design...From another Mini SIP Topic (by member FMD). The 2 Liter SIPs that I've fabricated were cut at approximately 4" not 5" up from the bottom. <edit> Two 1/2" wide wicks have been installed in the bottle, through a 1/4 inch hole in the cap (edited diagram)... Two 1" wide wicks as shown in the original diagram, saturate the bottom of the planter, which is death to fig cuttings.. The Pellon Thermolam Plus (item # TP970) mentioned in the diagram is a stock item at Walmart @ $3.97 / Yard, SKU# 551772065... 1 yard provides enough material for 182 - 2 liter SIPs (including 10% for waste or 202 without waste). That's about $0.02 per SIP More information on these and other similar designs can be found at http://www.insideurbangreen.org/recycled-popsoda-bottles/ Click on image below to enlarge. One, Two and Three Liter Soda (Pop) Bottle Planters - Step 1 http://www.flickr.com/photos/greenscaper/sets/72157604735985648

eboone

Registered:1378418906
Posts: 1,100

Posted 1388148516	Reply with quote #2

Thanks for sharing this, Pete. Do you think a 20 oz soda bottle would work for this method for initial planting of rooted cuttings or would it be better to plant them in a 2L bottle for their first pot? __________________ Ed Zone 6A - Southwest PA --------------------------- Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid), Col Littman's Black Cross. And any cold hardy early fig.

timmy2green

Registered:1304271666
Posts: 196

Posted 1388154372	Reply with quote #3

This is interesting, I haven't read much on it. What are the benefits? Does it work for outdoor plants? __________________ Saratoga, NY - Zone 5a Wish List: Sbayi, Poona, Panevino Dark, Lebanese Red, Sumaki, Raspberry Latte, Negretta, Italian 258, De La Reina MP.

GRamaley

Registered:1357742252
Posts: 791

Posted 1388158747	Reply with quote #4

Thanks for sharing, I love reusing items!! Timmy, it is a way to not over water your cuttings and figlings, they draw the water they need. __________________ Gloria --------------- 7a, maybe 8

ChillyNPhilly

Registered:1356891528
Posts: 365

Posted 1388159732	Reply with quote #5

Hey Pete, these look great, I want to give this a try. Thank you. __________________ Donna Philadelphia Zone 7

FMD

Registered:1309800590
Posts: 1,327

Posted 1388160217	Reply with quote #6

Pete, thanks for sharing your experience with the wicking material Pellon Thermolam Plus TP970. I have been looking for something that would do the job for years. I hope that over the coming months figsters will try the mini-sip rooting system and post on their successes/failures. __________________ Frank Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b North Florida Figs

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1388160778	Reply with quote #7

Ed, You're welcome. IMO 20 oz may be too small a container, but it should work, the wick just needs to be reduced to about 1/2 inch wide. I used 16 oz cups last season without wicks and they were root bound within a few weeks when the ambient temperatures were above 70 deg F. Attached is a 32 oz Deli Container after only a few weeks at temperatures above 70 Deg. F. Timmy2green, The benefit for cuttings is in maintaining proper moisture in the cupped stage or initial potted stage, usually where most cutting failures occur due to too much moisture or over watering, at least in my experience. The SIP allows for a moisture regulated growing environment without the worry or risks of over watering. Building and using mini SIPs... http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=6155374 (member WillsC) http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=6416006 (member FMD) Using full sized SIPs outdoor... refer to attached links. http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1274588219&postcount=1 (member Drivewayfarmer) http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1276699900&postcount=1 (member Snaglpus) http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1280740601&postcount=8 (several Links) Former member Dominick's (NYPD5229) SIPs and http://images.yuku.com/image/jpg/2471628151442452683fdccdbce6e3a7ef6de3f5_r.jpg and his Youtube Video Gloria and Donna, You're welcome. and Thanks. Frank, You're welcome. Thanks for starting your SIP Topics. I'm posting this simple design with that thought in mind. I will be posting my results here.

Smaritza

Registered:1357076942
Posts: 319

Posted 1388273052	Reply with quote #8

Thank you for posting this!!!! Now I can use all of my holiday soda bottles to make SIPs. It's much easier than I thought. __________________ Smaritza Bronx, NY Wishing for: Ronde de Bordeaux, Aubique Petit, Pananas Purple, Longue d Aout, Lebanese Red, Ischia Black, Scott's Black, Martineca Rimada, Tarantella, Jolly Tiger, Nero,

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1388328492	Reply with quote #9

Smaritza, You're welcome. If you use the Soda bottle, Please test the wicking ability with your mix. If too wet or too dry you can reduce or increase the wick size. Also, the reason for the split (dual) wicks is to keep moisture away from the bottom of the cutting, where it may cause rot, if introduced too early in the rooting stage. Good Luck. The Plan is to start in Mini SIPs and Step up progressively to larger SIPs or Plant in ground after growing in 5 gallon SIP for 2 years. The next step up from the mini SIP is the Colander SIP or "Easy SIP", then to a Full 5 gallon SIP or Barrel SIP. Note Easy Sips are 3 to 3-1/2 gallon planters, due to the reservoir and planter being in a single bucket. The Colander SIP or 1 Bucket Easy SIP uses a colander to form the reservoir and Aeration platform. The reusable shopping bag forms the wicking chamber. The planters soil volume is 3 to 3-1/2 gallons depending on the bucket used. *Assembly: Step 1* Measure 4 inches up from bottom of bucket and drill 1/2" to 3/4" holes on opposite sides of the bucket. Remove handles and or outer lip of colander with scissors or shears. Check colander for fit inside bottom of bucket. Assembly: Step 2 Place colander upside down inside bucket. Place 10-1/2" piece of pipe or bamboo centered on colander (the legs of the colander will keep it from rolling off and if it is rotated the legs will automatically center it). Assembly: Step 3 Place bag inside bucket and create "wicks" at opposite ends of the bag, the same ends as the drilled holes, the bag will "screen" the holes keeping out insects. Pack wicks with potting mix. Fill container with mix and plants. An Easy SIP was built with mostly recycled material... 1 5-gallon plaster Bucket... Free 1 10 inch Colander from Dollar Tree......... $1.00 1 Reusable shopping bag from Walmart.... $0.50 1 10 inch piece of plastic pipe... Free Note: If the bucket lid was available, it could have been used to replace the colander. The reusable shopping bag ($0.50) would have been the only purchase. An Easy SIP was built with materials available at Walmart... 1 5-gallon 70 Mil Bucket... $2.97 1 10 inch Colander......... $1.97 1 Reusable shopping bag.... $0.50 1 10 inch piece of Bamboo... $0.05, 1 spoon from a set of 4 plastic mixing spoons..$0.22 or a Piece of a heavy duty plastic hanger @ 3 - 10" pieces/hanger...$0.15 SIP ideas... http://www.insideurbangreen.org/sub-irrigated-buckets/ http://www.insideurbangreen.org/2009/03/subirrigated-bucket-planter-.html http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5149/5666867531_5b6679bdbd_z.jpg http://www.postoilsolutions.org/documents/Earthbox.pdf (my first exposure to Bucket SIPs and Earthbox Clones in 2004 originally from this website...http://www.josho.com/gardening.htm) YouTube Videos... (Alaska Grow Bucket) (Milk Crate) (Bags and Reservoir ) (2 bucket Quick Build) (Global Bucket 2 bucket) Attached Images 5_gallon_SIP_weedblock.jpg (88.90 KB, 79 views) 5_gallon_SIP_weedblock1.jpg (101.16 KB, 66 views) 5_gallon_SIP_weedblock2.jpg (96.20 KB, 59 views)

timmy2green

Registered:1304271666
Posts: 196

Posted 1388430876	Reply with quote #10

Thanks Pete and Gloria! __________________ Saratoga, NY - Zone 5a Wish List: Sbayi, Poona, Panevino Dark, Lebanese Red, Sumaki, Raspberry Latte, Negretta, Italian 258, De La Reina MP.

Smaritza

Registered:1357076942
Posts: 319

Posted 1388461233	Reply with quote #11

What's the best soil mix to use? On hand I have sphagnum peat moss, perlite and vermiculite. I was thinking about ordering something else like coir. I also saw another post where someone used the K cups for wicking.. Suggestions? __________________ Smaritza Bronx, NY Wishing for: Ronde de Bordeaux, Aubique Petit, Pananas Purple, Longue d Aout, Lebanese Red, Ischia Black, Scott's Black, Martineca Rimada, Tarantella, Jolly Tiger, Nero,

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1388462033	Reply with quote #12

Smaritza, I plan on using the Coir/Peat/Perlite mix @ 2-2-1 ratio, but Peat/Perlite at a 3-2 ratio also works well. I've had very good success with the Coir/Perlite seed starting mix (Burpee brand from Lowes) which is a 6-1 ratio. Its all trial and error at this point, based on your personal mix recipe. IMO, the vermiculite will make the mix too wet (hold too much water). If you try the soda bottle use only one wick as a test. Wicking test... 1. Put 1 inch of water(approximately 4 oz.) in the reservoir and place the assembled planter (with an almost dry potting mix) in the reservoir 2. Check the distribution and amount of water by emptying the planter's potting mix after all the water has been absorbed. I am currently testing a single wick setup. The bottle cap was drilled with a 1/4 inch hole and one wick that is split in half length wise inside the bottle. It seems to be working better (less water being wicked into the bottom of the SIP) than the two wick setup in the diagram. I will post a few pictures tomorrow. <edit> note attached pictures of the wick and of the wick in use in a 2 Liter SIP. The wick ends up, 2 inches below the surface of the potting mix, allowing for a dry surface layer 1 inch deep. This dry layer should eliminate Fungus gnat infestation. All the visible moisture...darker colored mix, was due to wicking. 1 inch of water was placed in the SIP reservoir and it was all wicked into the almost dry mix. This is the brand Coir that I'm currently using in the tests it was purchased at Adams Fairacre Farms.... .

Smaritza

Registered:1357076942
Posts: 319

Posted 1388462667	Reply with quote #13

Thanks Pete! __________________ Smaritza Bronx, NY Wishing for: Ronde de Bordeaux, Aubique Petit, Pananas Purple, Longue d Aout, Lebanese Red, Ischia Black, Scott's Black, Martineca Rimada, Tarantella, Jolly Tiger, Nero,

coop951

Registered:1217167527
Posts: 595

Posted 1388464431	Reply with quote #14

Hi Pete Love reading your posts. In the deli cup version with the peanuts and wick, does that go inside another container that is the reservoir? Hard to see. This cold weather is a great time for us to be building these SIP's as I am making some of my own versions. We are all a bit antsy Happy New Year Professor Coop __________________ Coop Northern NJ Zone 7a

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1388465736	Reply with quote #15

Hello Coop, Thanks. The "New Container" has one or more holes on the side at 1" from the bottom forming an integral reservoir. The "Existing Container" (or any planter) that is already drilled with holes in the bottom is put into a 16 oz cup (or bowl) which serves as as the external reservoir. For containers or planters with bottom holes they can also placed in a group into a larger basin reservoir or even the 1020 tray which will hold nine 32oz SIPs. I had a few days down time due to the season, so I decided to put them to good use, organizing and fabricating planters. A Happy and Healthy New Year...

RobBanks

Registered:1355024162
Posts: 57

Posted 1388469534	Reply with quote #16

Thanks for the exhaustive research, Pete. Amazingly generous contribution. __________________ Robert Zone 8b, Washougal, WA Currently growing: Negronne, Stella, Atreano, Hardy Chicago, Desert King, Lattarula

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1388770333	Reply with quote #17

Robert, You're welcome., and thanks. The hard work was done by others like "greenscaper" and J. Lister who posted their SIP building instructions on the Web. My only contribution is tweaking the wicks for better capillary action when applied to growing fig cuttings. Warning: Caveat when using Mini SIPs for growing fig Cuttings. The wick will continue to water the soil until the reservoir is empty or the potting mix is saturated. If the reservoir is oversized, or refilled as soon as it is emptied soil saturation may occur. The correct amount for the first few initial watering can be calculated by weigh or by observation. By weight, the amount of water is found by first weighing the dry mix (not bone dry), then weighing again after it is "watered" and drained. (My definition of "watered" is damp to the touch, but without any visible water.) By observation, the amount of water is found by slowly adding water from a measuring cup to the container's volume of dry mix (not bone dry), while gently mixing, to get it "watered" in a large bowl or basin (like mixing ingredients for a cake). That amount of water is the actual amount that's required for the first few initial watering. After root and leaf growth the the cutting will dictate the frequency and amount of watering. For the Soda Bottle SIPs, 5 cups of mix requires 6 oz - 8 oz of water, based on if it is the fast draining or slow draining mix (large or small Perlite ratio). If using the SIP to root cuttings, the potting mix should be pre-wetted and the reservoir should remain empty until the the cutting is transpiring the moisture (grown roots and leaves), no additional water is required in the rooting stage. Attached are pictures of a 6 qt Shoebox SIP made from a Sterilite 6qt "Plastic Shoebox" available for $1.00 at most Retail Chain Stores. .

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1389488124	Reply with quote #18

A SIP made from a 70 qt Rope Handled Tub. The tubs exterior should be lightly sanded and painted with Outdoor Latex Paint for UV protection (from UV degradation). The assembly is the same as the Colander Easy SIP. 70 qt SIP is approximately a 12 gallon planter with 3 1/2 gallon reservoir. Material list : 1... Mainstays Rope-Handled Tub... $5.97... Container and Reservoir. 1... Sterilite 12 qt basin #0657... $1.97... Aeration Platform 1... 20 inch piece of 1 HDPE water pipe... Reservoir Fill pipe 1... 17 inch piece of 1 HDPE Water Pipe... Aeration Platform Fabric support 1... 48 x 48 inch piece of spun landscape fabric (weed block)... Aeration Platform and wick pockets. 1... 5 1/2 inch piece of 4 inch drain pipe or 1... 32oz #5 Plastic Cup... Basin support under Aeration Platform. .

coop951

Registered:1217167527
Posts: 595

Posted 1389491457	Reply with quote #19

Super Nice Professor, I always look forward to your newest SIP designs. You show us there is a world of possibilities out there Love it Coop __________________ Coop Northern NJ Zone 7a

eboone

Registered:1378418906
Posts: 1,100

Posted 1389496517	Reply with quote #20

Pete, you are the adaptive genius of SIPs! I have a few questions so I understand better. Is the container under the Sterlite basin just for support? Is the purpose of the 17in pipe just to hold up the landscape fabric on 2 sides? Is that to keep from rede ing the water reservoir size or to prevent increased wicking? Is the 20 in pipe for a water intake down the inside of the tub? Are those styrofoam peanuts inside the wick pockets in the last posted picture? Purpose? Thanks! __________________ Ed Zone 6A - Southwest PA --------------------------- Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid), Col Littman's Black Cross. And any cold hardy early fig.

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1389498152	Reply with quote #21

Coop, Thanks, Its not actually a "new" design. All SIPs have a reservoir, an aeration platform and a wick. They can be formed in many ways, this was just adapting an existing design to fit this container and almost any container can be adapted. Also the 70 qt sip was inspired by 3 Topics, by Timmy2green, by JustFigs. and by Bullet08. Ed, 1. Yes , its supporting the center of the basin. It can be made out of drain pipe. I usually use perforated corrugated drain pipe in the bottom of my larger sips, but its not available at Walmart : ). Drainpipe is inexpensive and made of Black HDPE. 2. Yes, the 17" pipe is holding the landscape fabric above the aeration platform, decreasing the possible wick size. 3. The 20" pipe is the fill pipe and can be used to check the reservoir level with a dipstick, if needed. 4. The foam peanuts were used to fill and show the two (2) wicks at opposite sides of the planter. It was just easier to see and photograph when they were filled with the foam peanuts. Sorry about the confusion. It just took me a couple of minutes (2) to assemble.

timmy2green

Registered:1304271666
Posts: 196

Posted 1389536601	Reply with quote #22

Haha, "inspired" is a generous word when it comes to my contribution. Let's just say I'm glad to see someone could learn from my failures. If you're gonna fail, fail forward! Nice work Pete. Do you need to paint the entire inside and outside of the tub, or just the parts that get direct light from the sun? Is the paint toxic to the fig roots? Also, I've seen high quality injection mold nursery pots online for less than $10 in this larger size. It sounds like they would already be UV protected from our previous discussion. But they would have holes in the bottom already. Does that make them unusable for SIPs? Timothy __________________ Saratoga, NY - Zone 5a Wish List: Sbayi, Poona, Panevino Dark, Lebanese Red, Sumaki, Raspberry Latte, Negretta, Italian 258, De La Reina MP.

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1389545137	Reply with quote #23

Timothy, Thanks, I was not planning on making a SIP this size, but I didn't want to hijack your topic, so I posted it here. Only the outside areas exposed to sunlight need to be painted. Latex based paint once dried is nontoxic and the inside of the planter in contact with soil is not painted. There are also paints made specifically for Plastic, but I've never used them. No, Nursery pots can be used as SIPs. For a nursery pot with holes the "reservoir" can be a container placed inside the bottom of the pot. This container would form the Reservoir, Aeration Platform and Wick all in one. This was discussed in a SIP topic started by ADelmanto. They can also be placed into a larger container or reservoir, like the Hybrid Kiddie pool or Milk Crate Videos in Post #9. Or a plastic liner could also be placed in the bottom of the nursery pot to form an "internal reservoir". Picture sequence using a nursery pot to make a SIP with an external reservoir (or internal reservoir if a liner is installed). The "filling" can be anything, foam peanuts, gravel, drainage pipe or empty perforated bottles or cans. The height of the "wick" depends on the water depth of the reservoir, the wicks cross section area is 10% of the Nursery Pots Cross section area.

timmy2green

Registered:1304271666
Posts: 196

Posted 1389632623	Reply with quote #24

Thanks for the info! I'm gonna read up more before I ask anymore questions, but I did rig up 4 mini SIPs last night to test out. __________________ Saratoga, NY - Zone 5a Wish List: Sbayi, Poona, Panevino Dark, Lebanese Red, Sumaki, Raspberry Latte, Negretta, Italian 258, De La Reina MP.

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1389659435	Reply with quote #25

Timothy, You're welcome.Good Luck with your SIPs. I haven't built any of the mini sips with the dual cups and straws, because I have been concentrating my time on testing the 2 liter sips and the 32 oz sips with fabric wicks. IMO the fabric wicked SIPs are easier to mass produce with my available time and materials, and I will need more than a hundred. One thing that I noted earlier in Post # 17 is if the reservoir is oversized or continuosly filled, the potting mix will become saturated. This would apply to any mini SIP. It would be a problem with SIPs that are used for growing Figs and any plants that are sensetive to too much moisture. This should be tested before you start using the SIPs on Fig Cuttings 30 gallon barrel SIP: Materials 1... 30 gallon Barrel... Planter and Reservoir... Free ($10.00) 1... 6" Nursery pot... Wick... ($1.00) 1... 4' piece of 4" corrugated drain pipe... Aeration Platform supports... ($3.00) 1... 24" piece 1" pipe... Fill pipe... ($1.00) 1... 24" x 24" Piece of Plastic Garden Fence... Aeration Platform... ($1.00) 1... 24" x 24" piece of spun landscape fabric... Aeration Platform... ($1.00) 30 gallon Barrel SIP: Prep. Cut off top of barrel with a saw, the top 8 inches. Leave the rib on the planter section. Drill a drain hole at 5-1/2 up from the bottom of the barrel. If installing an automated fill, drill hole at the desired height. Cut the corrugated drain pipe into 6" pieces (a sharp knife works well) Cut the bottom of the fill pipe at an angle (45 degrees) and drill additional hole in the side of the nursery pot Assembly #1 30 gallon Barrel SIP: Step 1 Place the cut drain pipe and the Nursery pot in the bottom of the barrel with the pot in the center. Assembly #2 30 gallon Barrel SIP: Step 2 Place the garden fence centered on top of the drain pipe and nursery pot. Carefully cut out the center of the garden fence directly above the nursery pot. Pull the nursery pot through the opening, then push the garden fence down on top of the drain pipe. Assembly #3 30 gallon Barrel SIP: Step 3 Place the Landscape Fabric centered on top of the drain pipe and nursery pot. Carefully cut an X in the center of the Fabric directly above the nursery pot approximately 8" long. Push the fabric down around the nursery pot. Push down and smooth out the landscape fabric and garden fence and shape into the bottom of the planter. Assembly #4 30 gallon barrel SIP: Step 4 Fill and pack the nursery pot "wick" with damp potting mix. Fill and pack the bottom of the planter, ensuring that the Fence and fabric are formed to the bottom and sides. Assembly #5 30 gallon barrel SIP: Step 5 Insert the fill pipe angled end down (if required) and secure to the side of the barrel with a piece of wire or wire tie. Continue to fill planter with potting mix and plants. Fill the reservoir with water... Attached Images 30GalSIP_Complete.jpg (61.65 KB, 81 views)

timmy2green

Registered:1304271666
Posts: 196

Posted 1389671630	Reply with quote #26

Pete, Thanks for the info. I read post 17 and I'll try testing things out a little before potting to be sure a) it works and b) that I know the correct amount of water for my mix. Timothy __________________ Saratoga, NY - Zone 5a Wish List: Sbayi, Poona, Panevino Dark, Lebanese Red, Sumaki, Raspberry Latte, Negretta, Italian 258, De La Reina MP.

coop951

Registered:1217167527
Posts: 595

Posted 1389673397	Reply with quote #27

Pete, I love your SIP ingenuity. What great ideas you present. I've done a similar design and used metal lathe instead of the plastic fence as the aeration deck. This is also the material that Bills figs uses (thats where I copied it) and a 8 foot by 3 foot piece of that is about $8.00 at Home Depot. The lathe works well but is harder to cut and sharp to work with. I am also using burlap as my shield. All great ideas. Keep them coming professor. Coop __________________ Coop Northern NJ Zone 7a

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1389706835	Reply with quote #28

Timothy, Please keep us updated on your SIPs. Thanks. Coop, Thanks. I have tried the Expanded Metal Lath, and do not use it for that exact reason, too many sharp edges and much more difficult to shape. But it holds up quite well to wet locations without rusting out. The Garden fence is $11.00 for a 40 inch wide by 25 feet long roll at Home Depot.

eboone

Registered:1378418906
Posts: 1,100

Posted 1391723160	Reply with quote #29

I have made and tried some of the 2L soda bottle SIPs, but I dont drink enough soda to keep up with the demand! Here are two other similar designs I have been trialing. The first uses 16.9 oz (500ml) water or ice tea bottles, constructed just like the above 2L soda bottle SIPs. I reduced the size of the wick to 5in x 3/4in, split in half to almost the end. I did not use the bottle cap however, but cut an inch square piece of plastic bag (my MG potting soil bag), stabbed a small slit in the center of the plastic, threaded the wick end thru it, and put in in the bottom of the upside-down bottle neck. This does not fit tight, and allows a little more air to go up thru the bottom of the soil chamber. I used my knife to make a series of 6 or so small slits in the bottle 1.5 - 2.5 inches up form the end of the soil chamber for more aeration. The second design uses 2 plastic drink cups, either 32 or 44 oz size, stacked together. I put a soda bottle cap in the bottom of the outside cup to separate them slightly - it makes a small air space around the edges and increases the size of the reservior slightly. I used a knife to make a slit at the bottom of the upper cup to feed the wick through, and several vertical slits around the middle section of the upper cup for aeration. For these I used a 6 in x 3/4-1 in wick, also split down the middle to almost the end. Making this design is so fast and easy. In the future, I might try to get an opaque outer cup the same size as the inner one to block light to the roots, but I really like the clear inner cup to get a look at root development and more essentially, the hydration of the soil in the cup. Initially I started 25 cuttings in Root Riot cubes and as soon as I saw either roots or leafing out of the cutting, I moved the cutting to one of the above SIPs. I used 80% MG Potting Mix / 20% Perlite, with 1/2 cup of Espoma Plant-Tone mixed in 16 qts of the MG. The potting mix was made slightly damp. Since planting each rooted cutting into the SIP, I waited a week then have added only a little water to the reservior of each - 12ml for the smaller SIPs, 20ml for the ones in drink cups, with any water not sucked up by the wick to the mix dumped out after the first day. The cuttings have been kept in a clear tub with a bit of water at the bottom to keep the humidity up, the tub is covered with clear plastic wrap that I open briefly each day. The potting mix is dry at the top of all of the SIPs, moist at the lower 2/3. I have also transferred a few cuttings started with baggie/paper towels to these SIPS. So far all look very good. I have a few cuttings that I am trying to just root in them as well. I know the smaller sized 500ml SIPs are only very temporary, and am waiting to see how the figs do with the transfer to a larger pot, hopefully will be able to very carefully remove these without too much root damage. I like this system as it seems to allow me to very closely monitor the moisture of the medium, which seems to be the biggest problem in rooting/growing from cuttings. Both cuttings were started in the Root Riots on 1/6, transferred to the SIPs about 17-18 days later, so have been in the SIPs for about 2 weeks. __________________ Ed Zone 6A - Southwest PA --------------------------- Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid), Col Littman's Black Cross. And any cold hardy early fig.

ascpete

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Posts: 1,942

Posted 1391785645	Reply with quote #30

Ed, Thanks for sharing the details of your designs and results. The roots look very healthy. I usually don't add Espoma fertilizer until they are in 1 gallon containers. Only one question, What are/were the temperatures at the different stages? Please keep us updated on their progress. Thanks I don't drink soda at all, so I requested empty 2 liter bottles from friends. If I don't have enough bottles when I'm ready to start rooting cuttings I will visit my local redemption location and purchase them for $0.10 each from customers. Its still less expensive than the 32 Oz deli containers that cost $0.30 each.

FMD

Registered:1309800590
Posts: 1,327

Posted 1391787307	Reply with quote #31

Ed, this is definitely the way to go. I agree with the clear cup inside opaque cup concept as it answers all challeges: keeping the roots out of sunlight, watering without the need for a straw, monitoring root growth etc. I would like to report good success rooting cuttings directly in mini-sips using root-riot cubes. You need a humidity dome over the sip until the cutting leafs out, of course. With this technique you have an all-in-one continuous, uninterrupted process that goes from cutting to small plant without messing with damaged roots, plant shock, overwatering, underwatering, gnats, heartburn, lumbago and the heartbreak of psoriasis :)) __________________ Frank Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b North Florida Figs

eboone

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Posts: 1,100

Posted 1391792275	Reply with quote #32

Quote: Originally Posted by FMD I would like to report good success rooting cuttings directly in mini-sips using root-riot cubes. You need a humidity dome over the sip until the cutting leafs out, of course. Frank - you said rooting directly in SIP using root-riot cubes - do you mean you put the cutting into a cube and then immediately put it in into a potting mix-filled SIP? __________________ Ed Zone 6A - Southwest PA --------------------------- Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid), Col Littman's Black Cross. And any cold hardy early fig.

FMD

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Posts: 1,327

Posted 1391795424	Reply with quote #33

Quote: Originally Posted by eboone Quote: Originally Posted by FMD I would like to report good success rooting cuttings directly in mini-sips using root-riot cubes. You need a humidity dome over the sip until the cutting leafs out, of course. Frank - you said rooting directly in SIP using root-riot cubes - do you mean you put the cutting into a cube and then immediately put it in into a potting mix-filled SIP? Yup. __________________ Frank Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b North Florida Figs

eboone

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Posts: 1,100

Posted 1391797151	Reply with quote #34

Frank (or anyone else versed in the matter) What is the advantage over trying to just root it in the potting media in the SIP (I just started a few like that last weekend to see if it would work). What exactly is the magic of the root riot cube over potting mix? Are you using rooting hormone (i.e. Clonex gel or such)? Thanks for answering the questions of a rookie, trying to learn as much as I can to avoid rooting disasters! __________________ Ed Zone 6A - Southwest PA --------------------------- Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid), Col Littman's Black Cross. And any cold hardy early fig.

ascpete

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Posted 1391799653	Reply with quote #35

Frank, Thanks for your commentary about your results and the health benefits : ) I don't think the Rootriot cubes will be of any benefit. ED, IMO, the only benefit of the Rootriot System may be in the use of Rooting Hormone. The cubes are sponge like and may hold too much moisture next to the cutting, increasing the chances of rot. I did simple experiments with Burpee coir seed starting mix in seedling plug trays and hormone which resulted in 100% rooting.

eboone

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Posts: 1,100

Posted 1391801528	Reply with quote #36

Pete - I am assuming this from your description - you dipped cuttings in or brushed on Clonex or similar brand, then put the 'painted' end in the loose mix, in a tray with cells but no 'plugs' or peat pots, correct? What do you use for larger cuttings that don't fit so nicely in the cells? Reading your concern (and others here) about rotting from the RR cubes after potting in mix, I have been extremely frugal with my water in my SIPs described above. Others seem to have done well with them, though. __________________ Ed Zone 6A - Southwest PA --------------------------- Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid), Col Littman's Black Cross. And any cold hardy early fig.

FMD

Registered:1309800590
Posts: 1,327

Posted 1391804485	Reply with quote #37

Like so many people that have used root riot cubes (thanks again to Rafed for having introduced them to the forum), I found them to be remarkable rooting machines, with or without clonex. Almost every cutting is guaranteed to have thicker and longer roots very quickly . But like some others, I had problems with the potting phase. Perhaps they retain too much water and cause root rot. Perhaps the clonex dirverts all the energy to producing roots and not enough for the leaves. Whatever tthe cause, I won't ever repeat the conventional cupping phase of rooting again. The mini-sip eliminates 90% of the pitfalls. Once the cutting is placed in the mini-sip (with or without a root riot cube), it takes only one initial application of 2-4 ounces of water from the bottom to last up to 6 weeks until rooting and leafing occur. You can't screw it up even if you tried. Wouldn't it be great if we could marry the two systems to take advantage their positives while eliminating their negatives? __________________ Frank Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b North Florida Figs

milehighgirl

Registered:1382109709
Posts: 284

Posted 1391805354	Reply with quote #38

Hey, that Larry Hall guy stole my idea of the kiddie pools. I started collecting them last fall when they were on sale. I have a question about using grow bags and winter storage. It seems to me that it would be more beneficial to put the grow bags in pots for winter storage as it would protect the roots from cold temperatures and slow dehydration. Has anyone used grow bags in a cold climate? __________________ USDA Zone 5b, Sunset 2b Looking for: Becane, Dalmatie, Doree, Florea, Hanc's EBT, Italian 258, LaRadek's EBT, Longue d'Aout, Marseilles White , Negronne, Nordland, Sal's EL, Strawberry Vert, ...anything cold hardy and short season. (Willing to pay for cuttings)

ascpete

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Posts: 1,942

Posted 1391830450	Reply with quote #39

Ed, Yes, that is exactly what I did, dipped the bottom end in Dip n Grow, planted in a seed starting tray with a high dome. I first used a 6" high dome then I purchased 7-1/4" high domes which allowed me to root cuttings up to 8 inches long. The 1020 tray with the 6 inch dome was 100% successful. The later 1020 trays with the 7-1/4" domes were almost 100%, there were a couple of purchased cuttings which were dead and didn't root. For larger cuttings I use the Long Fibered Sphagnum moss in baggie method. The Rootriot cubes are almost the same consistency as a sponge, they will hold more water than the surrounding potting mix, which may do more harm than good, if the container isn't watered carefully. One reason for my advocating the mini-SIP is that by following a simple watering procedure, the "watering balancing act" can be eliminated, adding cubes reintroduces that "worry". Frank, My preferred method for pre-rooting is the Rootriot method, minus the Rootriot cubes. I had an almost 100% rooting rate using Burpee Coir Seed starting mix instead of the Cubes in standard seed starting plug trays and 7-1/4" high domes. One thing I noticed from the Rootriot feedback and updates was that the cuttings were drying out under the domes, so I misted the cuttings (not the mix) daily, until they rooted. Then they were removed easily from the mix and cupped. I agree that the mini-SIPs will help to not only increase cutting success rates, but also eliminate much of the anxiety when watering in the first weeks. Thanks again for starting the Mini-SIP discussions. I plan on testing rooting directly in the SIPs with a coir based mix. If the optimal temperature and humidity are maintained for the initial rooting period and a few weeks post rooting, the cutting growth should be continuous and uninterrupted. Milehighgirl, I have only used homemade grow bags for cuttings and they were up potted to gallon pots. I am fabricating several dozen colander sips, but they are in 5 gallon buckets. Grow bags could be placed into plastic shopping bags or larger plastic bags for winter storage, but I've no experience with them.

ascpete

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Posts: 1,942

Posted 1391964359	Reply with quote #40

Doug (SCfigFanatic), Thanks for commenting. What did you use for your wicking fabric? What is your potting mix recipe? and, What was your watering routine? Thanks The Pellon Thermolam fabric can be easily left in the potting mix when the cutting is up potted. The protruding end of the wick is cut off, the bottle cap is unscrewed, and the fig plant is planted in its new container.

ascpete

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Posts: 1,942

Posted 1391967540	Reply with quote #41

Doug (SCfigFanatic), Thanks for the reply. I'm posting to hopefully add to the discussions in the forum community, my success rates are already higher than 90% for growing out cuttings. We both agreed and posted about the easy means of saturation of potting mix in the SIPs and how the wicks can just as easily remove excess water. We also agree on the cost effectiveness of the 2 or 3 liter SIPs, but I disagree with your conclusions about the use of SIPs. IMO, If used properly with properly sized wicks and standardized (planned) watering procedures, their use will help to increase the success rates for most members, with most potting mixes. Also the 2 or 3 liter Soda Bottle SIPs will work without a fabric wick if the planned watering procedures are followed. <edit> added Hyperlink.

ascpete

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Posts: 1,942

Posted 1391969284	Reply with quote #42

Doug (SCfigFanatic), My understanding from your posts is that the Mini-SIP is ineffective for use as a means of watering and growing fig cuttings, and that there are much better ways to achieve that goal. From testing several procedures with hundreds of cuttings, I've found that bottom watering is most effective, but only if the bottom of the container is not saturated, the wicked Mini-SIP incorporates all the advantages, maintaining aeration and an even water distribution in the mix. I posted info on the 2 liter SIPs without fabric wicks, they are not as flexible, with the use of different potting mixes as the Fabric wicked SIPs, but they are fully functional for this use due to the bottles' neck design forming a "soil" wick. <edit> added Hyperlink.

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1391970413	Reply with quote #43

Doug (SCfigFanatic), I apologize for the misunderstanding. My confusion was based on my interpretation of your statement, Quote: Originally posted by SCfigFanatic, The best thing I've done to my mini 2 liter SIP is to pull the wicks. The 2 liter bottle makes a cheap starter pot none the less. There are more controlled ways to water a cutting for me than a wick. Yes, I did test 2 liter bottles without fabric wicks with several different mix ratios and currently have 2 in a test with cuttings. It even works well with 100% peat, It wicks properly and maintains an aerated mix, due to the "bottom watering" When used with the "simple watering procedure" in Post # 17 or as explained in another Topic, they work similar to a fabric wicked SIP, except that the bottom of the container may become temporarily saturated before the water is distributed into the mix. This condition does not occur with the fabric wicked SIPs. <edit> added Hyperlinks.

ascpete

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Posted 1391981808	Reply with quote #44

Doug (SCfigFanatic), You're welcome...

ascpete

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Posts: 1,942

Posted 1392308085	Reply with quote #45

Update: 2/13/2014 The 2 liter SIPs that were planted with cuttings are growing well, due to colder ambient temperatures (60 -70 deg F room temps), they are growing slowly, but are healthy. One observation of note is that most of the roots are growing "down" towards the bottom of the planter and the roots are being "air pruned" when they exit the aeration holes. The next batch of 2 liter SIPS have already been modified with additional aeration holes to take advantage of this. The plants with the most aggressive root growth have already started producing multiple side roots after the root tips have been "pruned". .

eboone

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Posts: 1,100

Posted 1392310818	Reply with quote #46

Pete - just curious, what are you using to make the zillion holes in the sides of the upper chamber? And how far up the sides are you going with them? __________________ Ed Zone 6A - Southwest PA --------------------------- Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid), Col Littman's Black Cross. And any cold hardy early fig.

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1392311580	Reply with quote #47

ED, The holes are made with a soldering iron like this one... http://www.harborfreight.com/30-watt-lightweight-soldering-iron-69060-8913.html . They can be purchased at some "Dollar Stores" for around $2.00. The holes take only a few seconds each, and one planter can be perforated in less than a minute, and it takes less than 2 minutes to completely make one 2 liter SIP from a 2 liter bottle. Greenscaper... Original Build Sequence with written instructions... http://www.flickr.com/photos/greenscaper/2519983658/in/set-72157604735985648 Pictoral overview of Original Build Sequence... http://www.flickr.com/photos/greenscaper/sets/72157604735985648 The holes are approximately 1/8" - 1/4" and extend from the neck of the bottle to approximately 3-1/2" up from the bottom of the planter (cap). They are only open to the reservoir, which allows the roots to grow into the reservoir where they are "air pruned" or manually pinched.

ascpete

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Posts: 1,942

Posted 1393272401	Reply with quote #48

I am Starting another simple test of 2 Liter Soda Bottle SIPs this weekend 3/1/14, before the start of my planned seasonal rooting. I will be using the cuttings that I have just received from Encanto Farms in the test. In all there will be nine (9) cultivars, eight from Encanto farms and one (Violet de Bordeaux) obtained locally. There will be 2 cuttings of each for a total of 18 in wicked 2 liter SIPs. Their progress will be documented in a new topic... Rooting Fig Cuttings in 2 liter Mini SIPs. I'm using these cuttings to test the reliability of the mini-SIP for Starting and growing out fig cuttings. I would appreciate comments on experiences from anyone currently using the 2 liter mini SIP design (with or without wicks) to grow cuttings. The 2 liter SIPs will be used for pre-rooting and growing out the cuttings. Once prepared, the cuttings will be planted directly into the SIPs, in a Peat-Coir-Pinebark-Perlite mix, 1-1-2-2 ratio. All The "lessons learned" with earlier rooting tests and the first group of test 2 liter SIPs will be incorporated into the new test batch. The SIPs will be built with the split wicks, increased holes in the aeration platform, the cuttings will be sealed with wax and buried as deep as possible in the mix. The planned procedure will be as follows. Attached Images 2_liter_SIP_preliminary_rooting_flow_chart.png (32.89 KB, 2260 views)

eboone

Registered:1378418906
Posts: 1,100

Posted 1393282822	Reply with quote #49

Hi Pete Looking forward to the update on this experiment. A few questions: What are you doing in the "Hydrate for 3 days" phase - soaking in water or super moist paper towels? No rooting hormone this round? When you are 'misting', that is the cutting or the potting mix or both? I assume you will add water to the reservoir only when the mix dries out(not the surface). Thanks, Ed __________________ Ed Zone 6A - Southwest PA --------------------------- Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid), Col Littman's Black Cross. And any cold hardy early fig.

pino

Registered:1383190021
Posts: 2,117

Posted 1393291355	Reply with quote #50

This is brilliant in its simplicity. Great ways to re-use plastic! Do you have any problems getting the plants out for transplanting? __________________ Pino, zone 6, Niagara, JCJ Acres Wish; Peace on earth and more figs Italian 258, Galicia Negra, Luv, trade suggestions welcome.

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