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Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > Anyone have the same problem that I have with the SUN?
 
 


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EDoukas

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Just curious. I've had several fig varieties now in pots and when I move them outside in the summer (even after a slow transition / hardening off) they start wilting and bending from the sun. Watering helps but even when moist, they will still often do it. 

I also have one in-ground against a South wall and being in that warm spot, it really gets affected by the sun -- even more so. Kind of discouraging, because as I begin to experiment with more in-ground plants, I'd like to be able to position them against the S. wall for obvious reasons.

Much of it may be the fact that I am in mile-high Denver where the sun is very strong and it can get pretty hot. Its just strange because most usually think of figs as heat/sun lovers.

Does anyone else experience this problem? Also, does anyone have any input on varieties that they find have good sun-tolerance? And since I may try some in part/filtered shade because of the above issue, are there any that you are finding to do extra well in shade (and productive)?
gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Sun hardening for 'healthy' GH/indoor grown plants should be done slowly and gradually (1-2 weeks).
Otherwise, them 'light' green leaves will get sunburn, dry-off and then eventually fall off.

A good root-system together with the right amount of soil/air moisture is also required.

A wind sheltered location is also much desired.

Commercial plant growers, usually have some elaborate sun-screened structure for hardening.
We, small people, have much less resources,  maybe under a tree or a remote spot in the backyard/driveway/xyz...
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GeneDaniels

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
I nearly killed my Chicago Hardy when it was still in a small pot and I moved it out to harden. I thought a week of in and out was slow enough, but no. Based on my limited experience, I would say it takes 3-4 weeks of slow acclimation to make the move outdoors, esp. since you are talking about full sun. Slow and easy is better than crying over a dead fig tree.
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Zone 7b (Central Arkansas) Seven trees in the ground: Hardy Chicago, Celeste(?), LSU gold, Italian Black, Southern Brown Turkey(?), Strawberry Verte, and Unk yellow.  Trees in pots: VdB, CdD, and Sicilian?
EDoukas

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Thanks for the input.

Its just interesting. I also have that issue with a little one I have in the ground against the South wall. It will pop out of dormancy slowly, as is normal, and then get beaten up by the sun.  I think maybe at my elevation, its just too hot of a location.  Would be curious to know if there varieties that are more heavily sun-tolerant than others though..
hllyhll

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
A permaculture approach should help south wall figs: good mulch and maybe a small hugel in front of the figs should help, for a variety of reasons.

Going all out, you could add a Siberian pea shrub/tree also in front to both add dappled light and fix nitrogen in the soil. Then chop and drop the top of that SPS/T later in the summer/early fall when the sun is not so harsh, and when you want full sunlight, not to mention the additional mulch for root temperature control with moisture retention, and subsequent natural breakdown into soil/fertilizer.
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Last year I had figs that I thought couldn't tolerate the sun but I found out they needed more fertilizer than I was giving them.  Once I increased fertilization they had no more sun problems.
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milehighgirl

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Evan,

I am seriously considering the Self Watering Container approach even for my larger, (15-20 gallon) pots. I was up-potting some figs last fall and I was surprised to find that even if the soil was moist on the top there were pockets of dry soil; even by their weight they seemed to be watered enough. Also I have found that painting the pots with Rustoleum plastic spray paint in a lighter color helps with the heat. My figs did not wilt as you say, but I put them on the a south facing wall that only gets morning and early afternoon sun, then it is shaded the rest of the day. Sun here is nothing like the rest of the country. Even in other arid climates there is not usually an altitude factor also.
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Looking for: Becane, Dalmatie, Doree, Florea, Hanc's EBT, Italian 258, LaRadek's EBT, Longue d'Aout, Marseilles White , Negronne, Nordland, Sal's EL, Strawberry Vert, ...anything cold hardy and short season. (Willing to pay for cuttings)
bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
all my newly rooted cuttings in 1 gal stays in shade first yr under my front porch. however, if they grow very well and must be up potted, they will go into 3 gal and go to back deck where they will get about 6-8 hrs of sun without any issue. problem with new cuttings are that the leaves they put on from indoor is not used to the sun. they will burn off quick. but good thing is, they should start putting on new leaves once they are out there for awhile and grow well. during the summer, even some of the new leaves put on by the tree will burn up. usually that is due to lack of water to the leaves. you might have to water the tree 2-3 times a day in certain locations. 

if your branches are drying up, that means something else. either there is problem with root, or roots are not developed enough to provide good plumbing to the top. 
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elin

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Ok i studied the issue since i live in a very hot area. My balcony floors are beige
Ceramics that also reflect all the heat to the black pots...

All in all my figs maybe start to ripen earlier like advised for colder areas but they suffer ....

I saw a member here covering the pot with some burlap. Which gavr me ideas...

Now i am covering my pots with plastic shade cover i had. And hope the figs will ripen better...
Will post pictured later


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Eli ,Israel ,Zone 10? Too humid and hot, yada yada yada
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EDoukas

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
hllyhll Awesome. I'm always for any permaculture approach. At the end of the last growing season, I mulched everything very heavy in the likes of the Back To Eden Method. If you guys haven't heard of it, I strongly recommend it.
  Its becoming kind of a movement and its so simple. Changed the way I see it all. Already was seeing results. It will change everything this upcoming season, as now my soil will be constantly "nourished" with compost tea, will be teaming with microbes/earthworms, and will retain moisture evenly (which I think may have been a lot of the issue). Let me know if you want me to give you a "readers digest" explanation of what its about.  Interesting regarding the Pea shrub. Will have to check that out. Was doing the same with some tall Agastache flowers which helped, but will need something taller..

rcantor Interesting regarding feeding. Will keep that in mind, especially for the potted plants. Will be giving them "worm tea" this year.

milehighgirl Fellow Denverite! Thanks for the input. I think its just too hot on a south wall that gets full sun toward mid summer. Thanks for the input. And yes, containers probably get too hot at the root zone as well. Will try the burlap or paint trick, or change to lighter containers -- especially since some are black! I'm finding that with most plants (and I have many different types), terracotta or something else that is breathable is WAY better than plastic anyway. Better for the roots.  Good point about the altitude factor (because figs do well in other arid, sunny areas -- like LA or San Diego).

elin Cool.. Would love to see your progress.

Thanks for all the input. I think I just need to make sure all growing conditions are good, but also to a point, need to except that full sun in my area is just too much.

cis4elk

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
EDoukas,

Just keep tinkering with it. For the most part you need to keep the roots cool as you can here. Once you get that down and assuming the plant has roots which are established enough to supply the demand for vapor exchange in the leaves; they will do great. If the roots are happy, there is no such thing as too much sun. Sure, during the heat of the summer at mid day my trees leaves curl, they're supposed to...it's the plant responding to mid day sun, but later in the day and at night through morning the leaves are fine again. Use the search feature on the forum with things such as temperature or shading or anything you can think of along that line, there is tons of reading on these subjects.  Another thought is to also use potted annuals around your fig trees to help shade your root zone/pots. That is clustering, one of the things I do with great results here.
Welcome to the forum.
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EDoukas

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Interesting!

Most of my figs that I have this issue with are pretty young, and the outside one growing in-ground last summer against the South wall is you as well.. Certainly not large and established. So that makes a lot of sense.

And they do often (even when they curl pretty severely) straighten back up and normalize.

Thanks.
hllyhll

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
The Back to Eden video has a lot to teach about the extreme value/necessity of mulching in-ground trees and plants for building soil and fertility and conserving water, to grow great fruit and vegetables and flowers. However that project appears to depend upon constantly importing a lot of mulch - which is not necessarily an option for everyone, and not necessarily desirable in a variety of ways.

A more self-sustaining way is to plant guilds of plants, bushes, and trees to build soil and produce 'chop and drop" mulch on site - interspersing nitrogen-fixing (and mulch producing) flora with the fruit trees (or other crops).

Using a variety of on site permaculture methods - constructing swales and hugels, growing nitrogen fixing trees, shrubs, and plants, and chopping and dropping for mulch - would seem to eliminate or greatly reduce the need to not only import mulch but also eliminate or greatly reduce the need to irrigate and fertilize, whether one's intention was to create a diverse food garden or forest of any size large or small, or to grow anything from a large orchard to a small handful of a single fruit bushes and trees such as figs.

Plenty of examples demonstrating these approaches and techniques on Youtube: 
In Quebec: fruit orchard makeover
In Florida: urban lot food foresting
In Australia: large scale food foresting
In Illinois: garden farm patch
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EDoukas

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Yea, that's the whole point. Using what you can to provide a covering. If a good covering is implemented, than everything good in the soil below will happen automatically. No where in nature do we see exposed soil, except maybe the desert, which validates the point. Yes, you use what you have. I liked starting with the Back To Eden method, because tree services are almost everywhere. I even hear of people getting free wood chips in Arizona, etc. Its great because otherwise these ground up trees end up being wasted. But it's different for everyone, depending on available resources. I also like the wood chips because they tend to hold moisture when there is excess and release moisture when there is not enough

I wanted to start with a quick base covering by using wood chips (ground up trees with leaves), but I'm also now using everything I have. Leaves never go to waste anymore. They are some of natures best soil builders. Weeds as well. As long as they are not full of undesirable seeds, why throw them out? I just pull them out and lay them on. They grow in hard places because they are so efficient at pulling up nutrients. Why waste it. Great nitrogen.

Nature is designed so that as plants and trees draw up nutrients, they are then eventually returned to the soil by leaf dropping, sticks/twigs, wildfires, etc.  Very simple concept. All we have to do is observe, and stop over-working it with our unnatural, harmful and failing "solutions". At the bottom of the most lush forests on earth we see leaves, wood and various organic matter. Works perfect and no work is ever required.  :)

Looking forward to checking out the videos.
jdsfrance

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Hi Edoukas,
My believing is that a figtree can not suffer from the sun - Here in summer I can get 40°C and my figtrees take that with no problem - just don't put water on the leaves ! Or water will act as a lens to the sun-rays and burn the leaf.
So the problem is , for me, the lack of water.
Can you install an auto irrigation system ?
Or try with bottles of water with small holes, so that the water gets delivered during the day.
You could as well try to shade the trees during the hottest hours of the day ... Easy to say ... not so easy to do, but an opaque wooden full frame could help you in that.

The only time I had such a problem was during my summer holidays. In just two weeks 3 of my trees lost some leaves to the lack of water.
When I came back, they had all leaves wilted . But I then watered them with 11 liters of water every day, and two still did produce some maincrop figs in end of October.
Those trees had been separated from the mother tree in the end of 2012, and they might not have had enough roots for all the wood they had ...
I have 2 sister trees whose feet were shaded, and those two did not suffer. All those trees are in ground in 80 liters dark buckets.
During those 2 weeks, the region got hit by the "canicule" - high temps day (35°/40°C) and night (25°C + ).
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elin

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
jdsfrance hi
 you are right to a certain point, but your setup is still in ground.

my setup is above-ground black pots and they heat up and the roots zone gets 45-50 celsius easily and the plants roots realy suffer.
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hllyhll

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Yes to mulch in myriad ways for many reasons. Mulch is the main thing, seems to me, especially for flora that receive a lot of sun, no question. Good mulching is so vital because apart from protecting (temperature regulating) the roots (and thus the tree) in summer and winter both, mulch also basically irrigates and fertilizes the tree. If any tree/bush has good mulch, however it gets it, that tree has got it made, more or less: it's protected, it's watered, it's fed. All done naturally, organically.

Now, what if one could naturally, organically intensify what mulch does in stimulating and invigorating and speeding up growth and production? Is it possible, where desirable? That's what many permaculture approaches (and the videos) show, how very possible it is, and in many cases absolutely necessary.

How to increase the feeding and watering - in largely passive, self-sustaining ways - beyond what mulch does? For example, feeding/fertilizing can be naturally increased over what is accomplished by mulch by surrounding fruit trees with nitrogen-fixing (fertilizing) flora, and working that appropriately. And watering can be increased as necessary via passive irrigation by digging swales on contour and/or by building hugels (which automatically catch and store rainwater (and generate "food") in the ground and/or in mounds for passive use as needed - both swales and hugels rendering the earth as Self-Irrigating Planter).

Plus, certain hugel constructions, and maybe swales, can create microclimates, thus improving upon the protective and structural component of mulch, above and beyond improving upon the already incredible feeding and water aspects of mulch.

Making such improvements means more work up front, but the beneficial effects are largely self-sustaining and long lasting. Mulching is the basic necessity and the main key. The rest is a kind of super-mulching, I think, though in a number of situations, using swales, hugels, nitrogen-fixing flora, and related techniques can be either a necessity, and/or very time, labor, and dollar saving. It can also be vital for creating quick production, as well as spectacular results. Mulch alone can have an amazing effect. The mulch effect can be quickened and intensified by these and other additional or initial steps.

Anyone who grows much of anything in the ground may find themselves doing some bits of various permaculture techniques unwittingly, which has mostly been my experience. I look forward though now to doing things a little more knowingly and extensively, hopefully to good effect.
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EDoukas

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Definitely. What that has looked like for me (in my semi-arid high and dry climate) is allowing things like lambsquarters, prickly lettuce and wild amaranthus to grow huge. I chop them down and mulch. They taste good too. : )

Always been intrigued by hugelculture. May have to try it some day.

milehighgirl

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
EDoukas,

I think the problem might be lack of humidity in our enviornment. I am going to try Wilt-Pruf on my pawpaws this year. I have found that they do very well in full shade on the north side of my house. Figs will need more sun but I think it will be worth a try to put Wilt-Pruf on them as well.
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USDA Zone 5b, Sunset 2b

Looking for: Becane, Dalmatie, Doree, Florea, Hanc's EBT, Italian 258, LaRadek's EBT, Longue d'Aout, Marseilles White , Negronne, Nordland, Sal's EL, Strawberry Vert, ...anything cold hardy and short season. (Willing to pay for cuttings)
hllyhll

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
In my spot, I'm surrounded by woods on 3 sides and lots of fast-growing woody-vine ground cover on the especially steep slope of the 4th - so, lots of chop and spread, and leaf-rake and arrange. A lot of slope, dips, mounds, and other contours to take advantage of. But the ground, the contours, and the non-fig plantings can be greatly improved.

I catch a lot of dappled and solid forest shade, especially on the near south side, so don't have much of the south-wall sun-shock threat you face. But in the most open spaces the ground and its conditions need to be well prepared, otherwise irrigation is endless, growth is limited, and any crops are minimal. And without adequate mulch and moisture, I get the sun-shock stunting that I think you describe. With good mulch and moisture though, no problems, so far, in full sun.

I have a relative who lives at 8,000 feet near Buena Vista, Colorado. Might you or anyone else on these forums in Colorado know of anyone growing die-back-to-the-ground figs at that elevation, or if the many mule deer would leave any such fig bushes alone?
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EDoukas

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
MileHighGirl - Interesting regarding Wilt Pruf. Never heard of it before. Paw Paws.. Also one fruit I don't know much about. Does well here?

Tony - Dang, and I thought 5500ft was challenging. Not sure, but the most cold hardy varieties I've heard of (that I really want to get my hands on) are Florea and LaRadek's English Brown Turkey. If it just gets way too cold for the above ground parts to ever make it, they can always try heavily mulched Hardy Chicago since it supposedly grows back from the roots with such vigor to fruit the same season.
hllyhll

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
And that's after having moved down from 10,000 feet, where they lived for many years. Would be quite an area to try the most cold hardy early ripening cultivars.
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milehighgirl

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Tony,

I have never heard of anyone who grows figs in Colorado that aren't members here. Buena Vista has an even shorter growing season than I have here in Denver. I'm still trying to figure out what figs need here. My crop of Chicago Hardy from an in ground, protected tree did not ripen this past year.
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USDA Zone 5b, Sunset 2b

Looking for: Becane, Dalmatie, Doree, Florea, Hanc's EBT, Italian 258, LaRadek's EBT, Longue d'Aout, Marseilles White , Negronne, Nordland, Sal's EL, Strawberry Vert, ...anything cold hardy and short season. (Willing to pay for cuttings)
EDoukas

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Florea! Seems to be one of the hardiest, yet most early fruiting varieties. I'm gonna really try to get my hands on one this season.

Here's what I do...and this idea might be helpful to the Buena Vista folks and you as well, Milehighgirl..

I have my potted figs outside as usual in the summer and then, as the weather gets cooler, leave them out, as long as you can. They go into dormancy. If the temperature plummets to dangerous levels (below the late 20's) stick them in a safer place if you can (garage, etc), then bring them back out. The trick is you want to keep this going for a while. When the weather gets to the point where its too cold too long, bring them into your house and put them in front of a sunny window. Its like you game them a mini, Mediterranean winter. In fact, some sources say they need less than 100hrs of dormancy. That's like 4 days. I'd go longer than that, but you get my gist.

The plants pop out of dormancy and begin fruiting at some point during their extra long growing season. Bring them out when its very warm. Repeat the process.

Works pretty well, especially if you do have some decently sunny windows. Plus, you enjoy your figgy friends inside for much of the year. Mine are freshly popped out of dormancy and looking beautiful in my house. All 10 plants. : )
EDoukas

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
So, another thought on that note, is they can perhaps bring the plants in if it is getting cold and they are not done ripening. Then they can figure out how they can give them dormancy for a bit, to start the process over again with vigor.

Also, petite negra is a fig that they may be able to grow inside all the time (once again, assuming they have decent window(s))!  Its a lot LESS hardy of a fig which in turn needs little to no dormancy. Logees nursery claims that if kept warm it will just keep its leaves and still go in and out of fruiting. I have one, but not long enough to verify all this yet.
hllyhll

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
I've begun to do some fig shuffling too, and grow some indoors in winter, to varied effect.

I also look forward to obtaining and trying Florea at some point. Sal's EL/GS is relatively easy to obtain, it seems, as far as cold hardy early ripening cultivars go. I wonder if Florea would actually be hardier and earlier ripening than Sal's? And does Sal's (among others) not grow back from being frozen to the ground as well as Hardy Chicago, and then ripen more quickly? Maybe some folks know...
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EDoukas

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Yea, not sure myself.

Wouldnt mind getting my hands on a Sal's El though.
elin

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
Hi 
this is how i wrap my black nursery pots. 
also using the permaculture and putting palm bark on top of the soil...

Hope to have a good growing season.

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jpeg P1030848.jpg (507.33 KB, 16 views)


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Eli ,Israel ,Zone 10? Too humid and hot, yada yada yada
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louborges

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
I live in Northern New Mexico and had the same problem. The leaves would dry at the tips from the dry air and hot sun. I would also get hail damage every year. I now have a small green house that protects them from all these problems and they thrive in it.
EDoukas

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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Nice, Eli.  Thanks for sharing!
barnhardt9999

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Put them here (SSW window) as soon as I see a root in the cup. Shuffle free, hardened off and ready to out as soon as its warm. They are under a heating vent so they get sun and dryness before they have any leaves. Keeps the top growth from getting ahead of the roots. IMG_20140101_115800.jpg 

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EDoukas

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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
That's awesome. Do those suction cups ever lose their grip? Where do you get those?
elin

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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Hi, while talking about heat...

My balcony has an area which is shaded (no sun ) most time of the day. maybe some evening sun.

does anyone in hot climate like mine has an idea if the figs will ripen there?

thanks 
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barnhardt9999

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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
I haven't had one loose grip yet. You can get them at Wal-Mart or Target. The intended use is for shampoo/conditioner in the shower.
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JustFigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
EDoukas  I have some experience growing figs in zone 9A near Las Vegas NV. I noticed fig trees with larger more developed roots such as 3 - 5 gallon pots do way better than planting 1 gallon pots even early in the season. I also add mykos to my soil to help roots grow faster and utilize nutrients more efficiently. I have had many simply not make it through the summer even that looked good early on.

milehighgirl  In my desert environment sips not only help the tree stress less from drying out, they are much more economical in time, water and fertilizer if you are using pots. I get far less fruit drop using sips than I do with traditional pots draining out of the bottom. Figs themselves do fine in hot and dry climates but the soil has to remain remain moist. I would get some big trees in 30" containers but half the fruit drops or is dry even giving it 6 gallons twice a day in the summer. By afternoon it would dry out and stress. I agree going with the biggest pot you can handle but for sips that is limited. I can use the good quality (not walmart stuff) 19 gallon rope handle containers and make inexpensive sips quickly with little tools. Pictures with instructions are on my facebook page https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.341635752606840.1073741833.296107943826288&type=3. Another advantage using sips is when your tree stops taking water it is an early warning sign it is going to die from stress if you don't take it out of direct sun. Everyone of my trees I lost suffered this. If you move it under the deck in shade for the summer it will come back if you didn't kill it yet.

cis4elk  I also wrap the pot with burlap sack or shade cloth to protect the plastic from breaking down out here in the desert but also to keep roots cool. It works very well for me.

EDoukas I have sal el rooting now if you want to buy from me come spring time.
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