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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Good day, now that Spring has sprung in my area, the time has come to fight the pollen and start my new green house project. My new GH will be 12x24. It's made of that super thick plastic film. The side roll up in case it gets too hot. However, there is one thing that I will need to get----shade cloth. I sucribe to a growers magazine and they have a lot of shade cloth. Since my GH will be in full sun I'm trying to figure out how much of the sun do I need to blocked? 30%, 40%, 50%, 70%? For those of you with GHs, do you use shade cloth? If so, what percentage works best? I would love to have mine have a max temp inside of 90 degrees on a 90 degree day. Any ideas?
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Dennis , If the sides roll up high enough and the doors are open would you need shade cloth ?
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Kerry Zone 5 NH
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pitangadiego

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
I would go with at least 50% and probably closer to 80%. You are going to have fairly high temps in the summer, where you don't been any solar heating. If you have never had a greenhouse, you will be surprised at how quickly you can heat an enclosed space that is in the sun. Think about how fast your car heats up, when you run into a store for 15-30 minutes (even if it is white or light color). Work it out so that you can put it on for summer and take it off for winter. Wheit is 80 outside it will be well over 100 inside.

When I built my little greenhouse it was great for about a week in the spring, and then the temps soared to 80+ and I was instantly trying to cool it off.  Misters really help cool things, and the higher humidity means the plants can take a higher temp. Get a fan to circulate the air, otherwise the temp gradient from top to bottom might be as much as 30 degrees, esp. in the cooler months.

BTW, it is March 14th, 10:30 and it is already 87F, 20% humidity and a 10-20 mph wind. So always plan on the unexpected when working with a greenhouse.
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drphil69

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
It would be a shame to block all that light just to keep temps down.  I'm thinking of doing a temporary one for spring until frosts are no longer possible.
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Phil - Zone 7A - Newark, DE Newbie fig lover just trying to learn.
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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Last summer I struggled to keep temps down in mine. I used a very large exhaust fan with intake on the lower north side of the greenhouse, which would keep it around only 10F higher than outside temps. Without the fan, well, it was 50F here last week and got to 110F in the GH.
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RIMike

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
I've got a 60% shade cloth on my 10 X 18 greenhouse / hightunnel. Without it, it was so hot in there you couldn't stay in there for more then 10 minutes at a time, even with the sides rolled up. The tomatoes I had in there didn't do well, as they were stressed from the heat.

Added a shade cloth an you can hang out in there all day, plants love it and it provides plenty of light.

This is what I have.

https://www.greenhousemegastore.com/product/60-percent-aluminet-shade-curtain/shade-material
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schaplin

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Hi Dennis,

I used 50% and 60% aluminet on my greenhouse.  I really helps keep the sun off and the greenhouse cooler.  It is $$$ than the plastic types.
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johnnyq627

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Are you guys placing it on the outside of the greenhouse or hanging it inside?
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Kerry, down in my country, every comercial nurseries with a GH has shade cloth on top. I asked most and most can't remember what percentage they have. The catalog I have recommend 90% so looks like Jon's right. Every nursery that's I've visited had shade cloth and it was hot as heck inside. The kind I'm getting comes in percentage of 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, and 90. They recommend 90% for green houses but I wasn't sure it that was too much. Jon recommended 80%. At first, I was leaning towards 70%. But I think I'm gonna go with 90. But before I do, I'm gonna go by my friend's place and ask him.
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Usually greenhouses with shade are for foliage plants and creature comfoth. I don't know of a single farmer that has a shade on a vegetable transplant house. You can't do what a retail nursery does because they are just maintaining them. Most of ours are sold with 50 percent and my recomendation is that while it in a bag to hide it. I'm just a contractor.
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Thanks Hersell! I was hoping you would chime in. So, what do you recommend? 40%?
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
I prefer the aluminet, it is cooler. 8 hours of sun is plenty and as you said we have an adequate supply in the south. 30 or 50 would be plenty. I don't use but it's just personal I guess. I learn to work in my houses in the mornings and evenings and don't look at the thermometers at mid day.
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Hershell Zone 8. Ray City, Ga.
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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Dennis , I based my question on my experience vegetable farming in southeastern PA.
There we had similar sized tunnels to yours - 4 that were 14x40   - 2 that were 14x76  and a 30x96.
Growing greenhouse tomatoes , peppers , european cukes , eggplant etc for a 220 family CSA.
We never used shade cloth on any of the houses even though that area has a very hot and humid Summer , the peak hot months of which reminded me of where I grew up in Georgia and Florida.
If we had the doors wide open and high roll up sides (6 foot roll up sides on the 30x96) the temps were fine for all those crops.
I was guessing that with very good natural ventilation the figs would do just as well without cutting down the light.
On the narrow houses like 14 footers , the ones with tall sides, rather than those single piece ground to ground hoops, allowed for much better ventilation with higher roll up sides while still retaining the benefit of rain protection .
I'll be very interested to see what you decide after your research into this.
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Kerry Zone 5 NH
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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
I used 30% for walls and top in my commercial nursery operation to protect plants from strong winds and ocassional hard down pours. No plastic sheeting.
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- Richard
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pitangadiego

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
I only put it on the top and west side.

Different applications require different percentages. Growing established plants is quite different than starting cuttings, recently transplanted cuttings, etc. Light wasn't an issue with the cloth on the top - it was all about heat control.
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schaplin

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Dennis,

There are lots of recommendations on shade cloth based on what you are growing.

For winter I used Aluminet inside the greenhouse.  I had it set up so at night I could keep the heat from going up to the top of the greenhouse and being lost.
Mostly you do NOT want shade cloth outside the greenhouse if you could get snow.  The shade cloth will not let the snow slide off the plastic and it can crush your greenhouse.

For summer I used 3 shade clothes to create 3 zones.  40%, 50% and 60%.  If I was getting shipments (ship rather than air) which were stressed than I would toss up another 40% or 50% to cut the light way down then gradually pull it off.
If you double shade clothe say 2 50% you do not get an 100% shade.  The first gives you a 50% transmission ad the second will give you 50% of the 50% light so it would be about 25% light.

Pino,
I used clips, rope and stakes to hold the shade cloth.  Stayed on through hurricane Sandy so I must have done something right considering that house was in NJ.
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Thanks guys and gals! Aluminet is cheaper than the stuff I was going to buy. I did no know you guys installed it inside your GH. That will work best for my little 6x8 GH.
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Wow what were you going to buy.  The only thing I know that is more expensive is from Ludvig Svensson.
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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Due to the large number of small farms in the area, there are wholesalers here who have machinery to produce large (and enormous) shade cloth in custom shapes (straight edges) at various percentages, with grommets sown in at 1 foot intervals. The cost is incredibly competitive for sizes 1000 sq.ft. on up -- 50k sq.ft. is not uncommon. Typically these are adhered to either PVC or galvanized steel tubing with "outdoor" zip ties. A good thing to know when purchasing shade cloth with pre-installed grommets is that it stretches. When ordering from a production site, tell them the dimensions of the frame plus the desired shade percentage and they will produce something that stretches to that size. One supplier in the area is Wind & Shade Screens in San Marcos. Please don't think of them as an internet ordering site. Instead, whatever you order might take 6 weeks before its your turn in the production schedule. They do hire (and charge you) for deliveries in the local area. Otherwise shipping is usually your problem.
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Thanks Richard.  Sharon, my new GH will be here next week so, I'm scrambling trying to learn all this before it comes.  I receive a Grower's Outlet catalog and was planning on ordering from them.  I will need this cloth for both my old 6x8 and my new 12x24.  I got some last year from a guy.  I think it's 70% block.  Just today, I noticed that Northern Tool has some for my GH.  It's $49 bucks.  Is that expensive?  I ask b/c I really don't know.  My current GH is made of aluminum with a green coating.  It's cute, but I've outgrown it!
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Dennis
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Been sick with the flu....and now that it's about over, I decided to pull out my shade cloth and see if it makes a difference inside my current GH.  This cloth blocks 70% of the sun.  It's 10x12x20.  At high noon, its 72 degrees outside in the shade.  When I placed the cloth on, the inside temp read 98 degrees.  Now, 90 min later, its 87 degrees inside my GH.  My new GH will be installed right behind this one as soon as I start feeling better.
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
Nice Dennis
Best of luck with it. Happy Easter
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Lesson 1.  Make sure you have the right Shade cloth--get 90%!!!!
After growing figs inside my GH this year, the 70% shade cloth wasn't enough.  Jon was right!  I should have purchased 90% shade cloth.  What I learned is, even though the product says it blocks 70% of the sun, it's really blocks 30%.  When temps reached 100 degrees this year, the sun still came through the shade cloth and my trees struggled.  The air quality wasn't the best and neither was the soil mixture.   I ended up pulling many of them out.  I bought more cloth but now I completely understand the importance of getting the right cloth.  

Lesson 2.  Get rid of perlite 
Trees with loose soil with a lot of perlite suffered the most.  I had to water them twice a day and 3 times when temps got over 100.    Trees in pure compost never had a problem.  This is why going forward, I will never ever up pot my trees with perlite or any soil less mix with perlite in it.

Lesson 3.  Cheap black nursery pot hold too much heat
Trees in black pots BAKED inside my GH.   Trees in SWP did the best.
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snaglpus
Lesson 1.  Make sure you have the right Shade cloth <SNIP> I bought more cloth but now I completely understand the importance of getting the right cloth.  
<SNIP>


Does this mean that you're now a man of the cloth?
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
YOU BET!
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Glad to hear it  .
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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by snaglpus
I would love to have mine have a max temp inside of 90 degrees on a 90 degree day. Any ideas?


Even 90% shade cloth won't get you the same temp inside as out when you are relying on passive ventillation for cooling. Reason: the only way passive removes any heat is if it's warmer inside than out. Warmer air is lighter so moves out the top while cooler outside air moves in the bottom.

If you want inside temp same as out you need evaporative cooling. The most efficient has large exhaust fans on one end blowing hot air outside. On the opposite end is a wet wall that intake air is pulled thru. This is the system I have and depending on dew point I can keep it cooler inside than out with no shade cloth.

90% shade cloth is only necessary if the cooling system is very inefficient. For passive cooling there needs to be large openings for hot air to move out the top and cool air in the bottom. The pictured greenhouse looks to only have an open door.

90% shade is fine for non producing figs but will limit fruit production. 50-60% is enough shade for a properly ventillated greenhouse. But it will still be 10-15F warmer inside than out, same as 90% shade and poor ventillation.
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
Great input Steve!  I like that!  Thanks!!!!
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Dennis, do you think your plants in the potting mix with perlite or dark pots would have done OK with an automated watering system?
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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Hey Dennis, Steve is right on. You have no air movement, so you will have a very difficult time finding the correct balance of light/heat without it.

Because the greenhouse doesn't have an end wall louver, maybe get a oscilating fan which you can mount on the back wall and blow the air out through the front door to have some circulation and put in on a basic on / off timer. The Air King wall mount fan on ebay is going the be the best bang for you buck, and very affordable for $44 bucks. In addition, this is the time of year for grey mold. High humidity and very little air flow to dry things out is a breeding ground for fungus and other headaches. Grey mold wiped out almost all of my tomatoes last year due to lack of air movement...lesson learned!

AIR KING 9018 Wall Mount Fan
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Thanks Mike!  You guys are correct.  I just did not have enough air flow inside the GH.  The photos I posted doesn't show the whole picture.  There is a pop-up window and a fan on the floor.  The idea was to pull the cool air in from the door and push out the hot air from the top.  It did not work well at all.  So, I pulled every tree out and presently redesigning the air movement.  

I have 2 Air King pedestal fans for my large GH but not for this one.  Yesterday I purchased 4 - 12 inch shelter logic fans.  These will be mounted on the sides and back of the GH and should give me the air flow needed for this GH.  

Thanks everyone for your comments.  they are very much appreciated!!!

cheers!
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Dennis
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