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PHD

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
I've been doing some searching on the forum to get a list of the Mt Etna type figs. They do not have to be from Mt Etna (example Dark Portuguese) but show a very close affinity in taste, cold tolerance, appearance etc. So far this is a list of some of them below. Hopefully members with more experience can add to the list

Marseilles VS
Hardy Chicago
Sal's
Dark Portuguese

 Take Care
  Pete
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Pete, I came across this old thread when I was doing the same research as you.  I am listing a couple more varieties below that I think might be Mt. Etna types but I am not sure.  I welcome others to weigh in on this and add to the list as appropriate.

Takoma Violet (a.k.a. Tacoma Violet)
Pane e Vino dark
Macool

By the way, I hope to reduce my collection to 1-2 Mt. Etna types.  Assuming healthy varieties (not limited by FMV) which is the best all-around Mt. Etna fig for the mid-atlantic/northeast?  I have heard Macool might fit the bill.  I would love to hear some opinions on this.

Cheers,
Steve
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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Rewton,

macool not Mt.Etna type.

Bass named this after his father in laws last name and its from the middle east.
paully22

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Looks like Rosetta is another -- ripens around the same time as Hardy Chicago and similar
in size & color.
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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Martin, I knew about Macool's middle east origins but wasn't sure if the middle east could be a stopping point and that Mt. Etna might be the true origin.  Of course, this is just speculation on my part and you are probably correct.  The reason I brought it up as a possible Mt. Etna type is because it has been compared on several occasions to other Mt. Etna figs.  Below is one example, a post from a member who has left us (NYPD5229):

"Get a Macool-You will not be disappointed. Fruits young and in my garden it outshines my Marsellies BVS and Sal's Gene.  Not saying they are not good.  In some climates they may outshine Macool.

To me, Macool is Sal's G crossed with MBVS with the sharpness of Hardy Chicago.

I may get rid of all of those and keep just Macool.  Macool has done very well in wet weather, holding on and not splitting or spoiling.

Only test left is constant rain for more than 2 days. Other than that, tops for me this season."
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jtp

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
What about Bill Saxon's Owensboro? I have seen posts where it is said to be like Hardy Chicago but better.
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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Yes Rewton thats a tuff call i see what you mean.
The one i had from original source had bad case of fmv following winter it never made it out of dormancy.
Here you can see some mottling and misshapen leaves.
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
John, I forgot about that one but yes it sounds like it probably fits in the Mt. Etna group.  Paully, I hadn't heard of Rosetta but thanks for mentioning it. 

Martin, probably the best way to define varieties into groups is by genetic analysis.  There have been posts previously of fig family trees defined this way but I would guess only the most common varieties have been analyzed so far.
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PHD

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Rewton, you can add Gino's and GM#11 to the list. It's seems that almost every ethnic community here in North Jersey has a Mt Etna type fig. I'm very happy with my Dark Portuguese and Hardy Chicago but 2 of this type of fig I think is enough for me although Marseilles VS sounds like it is the best to be planted outside because it is the most cold hardy of the group. To bad my space is so limited!

 Pete
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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Pete, I have high hopes for my MvsB which I got from a generous member last Fall.  I'll compare it to Hardy Chicago and Sal's in containers and decide which to plant in the ground.
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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Hey John. The jury is still out on that Unk Owensboro in my yard. I don't think I've had fully developed fruit on my little tree yet. Hopefully a little extra TLC this year will help it to return the favor with some better fruits.

Jason (& maybe others) have had much better results than I've had to date. Here's the link where Jason was discussing that one:  http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/quotUnknown-Owensboroquot-6008102

As far as cold hardiness goes. From what I understand, it survives KY's winters unprotected. I haven't put mine to the test yet to confirm that for myself. My buddy, who gave me this one, grows his in a greenhouse. So, no real confirmation there.

Just to clarify, the friend who gave me the Unk Owensboro, first got this fig from someone growing it in O-boro. I plan to trial it unprotected once I'm sure I have a solid back up or two.
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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
@Rewton -- checkout Lubera figs Rosetta.

Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Pane e Vino dark is not Mt Etna Type it is Sicilian type.

Explanation note to Tonycm:
Mount Etna Type figs are ,a type of figs that were found initially by sheperds up of altitude of 1000 meter or less,on mount Etna,in Sicily,so it is a mountain fig, and resist cold much better than others because up on the mountain it is cold in the Winter tho, Sicilia have mild climate.
The Sicilian Black,white and red,are a group of figs ,that are grown in orchards in Sicily,they are more improved with larger fruits,and they are not found at higher altitude on mount Etna growing as wild figs.
That is the difference,between the 2 types.
Tonycm

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Mt. Etna is in Sicily.
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Bass

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
What Herman referring to as a Mt. Etna type are those with specific characteristics such as in the Hardy Chicago, Sal's and others. They are very similar and have been very successful in our area. 
Pane e Vino Dark is a lot different than those described as mt Etna figs, it's larger and not similar as the others. 
Dark portuguese even though from portugal is very similar to the Mt etna figs so it fits the same category. 
Macool is Syrian but is very similar, but one of the differences that it produces an elongated breba.
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Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Thanks for chiming in on this Bass.  Obviously there are degrees of relatedness.
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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
DNA Testing has confirmed that Abruzzi, is related to Hardy Chicago. Of all the cold hardy figs we grow, Abruzzi is the only one that sprawls along the ground, verses growing straight up.

I'm hoping that means this Abruzzi selection we have, is going to be exceptionally cold hardy.

Hardy Hartford has leaves a lot like Hardy Chicago, and Marseilles Black VS. Plus, it appears to be as cold hardy as Hardy Chicago. 

Bob - Connectcut Zone 5b/6a
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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
The leaves of 'Sicilian Dark' (GM#11) are also very like those of HC.
Fruit is not. Mother tree was discovered in my town, owned by a old Sicilian man.

Also, a couple of towns over, I found another (HC-type fig) that I dubbed 'Abba'.
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Tonycm

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Thanks for the clarification on what you meant by Mt Etna figs Vasile. I did not know exactly what you meant but now I do. Always learning on here. The more you learn, the more confusing figs are. My head is spinning. :-(
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Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
You Welcome
Tony:It is good to know all of these information so we can choose ,what varieties to grow in our local climates ,in order not to waste time,labor and money,trying to get results from Cultivars that are not adapted to our climate..
Every fig cultivar (self fertile),is excellent tasting, in a certain local climate,and usually poor in other climates.
Fig that need pollination should be totally avoided by backyard gardener,as there is plenty of cultivars just as tasty and better ,that are self fertile.
In north east Breba only figs should be avoided ,because the Breba embryos are present on branches trough the Winter and they die first from hard frost,and so the tree will produce nothing,in most years except some very mild Winters.
Tonycm

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Yes Vasile, I need to start reading what trees do better in my climate before I buy one just because it looks good. A fig that does well in one area might be a poor performer in another area. I have at least one fig that I discovered that it splits open too easy from rain. I purchased that tree only because the description said "LARGE FIGS". I'm now learning to select only figs that are hardy for my climate and good tasting (what I personally like).
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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
Are all Mt Etna types dark figs, or do they come in light as well?  I've found nearly all figs that are 'hardy' (zone 6b) for me are Mt Etna types, which are all dark to my knowledge. I feel should have some light ones to make sure I'm tasting the spectrum (Martin may disagree), especially since I've only had dark figs so far.

Does anyone know if these figs at Mt Etna are wild as a strain/sub-species that has evolved to be hardier?  If so, I think we need a fig collecting excursion to Sicily. I would guess some of the Mt Etna types from other regions mentioned may have been initially selected from Mt Etna or descended from those by seed (intentionally or not), plenty of trade in the Mediterranean over the millennia.
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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
That's a great question.  In other areas it seems as if fig families have evolved to have both green and dark members.  An example would be the Col de Dame series from Spain (or southern France?).  But I can't think of any Mt. Etna types that are green.  Maybe the experts will chime in.
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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Most cold hardy light fig? Gallo/Binello? Lattarula?
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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Very informative thread. Thanks for sharing everyone.

Norhayati
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rafaelissimmo

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
No one has mentioned the Valle Negra, which I think is a Sicilian fig. Is that Mt Etna type? I am pretty sure Herman's Don Fortissi black is also Mt Etna fig.
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hllyhll

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Ongoing tentative compilation of Mount Etna or Mount Etna type figs:

Takoma Violet, Dark Portuguese, Marseilles Black, Sal's EL/GS, Salem Dark, Black Bethlehem, Gino's, Unknown #11, Jersey Fig, Martini, Don Fortissi Black, Hardy Chicago, Keddie, Hardy Pittsburgh, Hardy Hartford, GM #11 (Sicilian Dark), Abba, NJ Red, San Donato (Calabria), Dominick's, Macool?, Bari?, Rosetta?, Owensboro?, Hardy Cleveland?, Ginoso? Roundhill? ...

Mongibello may possibly be the earliest known name for the Mount Etna cultivar.

A couple links (from below) with good information on the subject:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fig/msg0513485811442.html
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fig/msg0207122622354.html 
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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
how do you define Mt. Etna type? do they have to come from Mt. Etna? is there definite leaf shape like ones on HC?
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Pete
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***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
james

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Pete, check out post #13 and #15.
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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Pete, see post #13.  There are probably some varieties around that are derived from figs growing on Mt. Etna, and are indeed Mt. Etna figs, but can only be traced back to some other geographic locale (like Takoma Park, MD).
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Herman2

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Malta Black,and English Brown Turkey are not MT Etna Type!
Malta B,has three lobes leaves,and English BT,has large redish fruits when ripe,and different leaves.
Also English BT needs longer Summer to ripe.
Malta Black is a better tasting fig compared to all others,and the only common with the others is that is early ripening.
bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
so it has to come from Mt. Etna. but how can we be sure if any of them has come from Mt. Etna? i'm sure some of them can be traced back to Mt. Etna... but most of them will be unknowns that no one can trace back to anywhere but someone's backyard. are we going by the trees hardiness and leaf shape? 
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Pete
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"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
DNA sequence would probably be a good way of resolving whether an unknown fits into the Mt. Etna family.  Hardiness, leaf shape, etc are not so reliable.
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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
i like simple classification.. light fig and dark fig. 
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Pete
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"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
hllyhll

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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
Thanks, Herman2, for the corrections to the Mount Etna fig list.

As for Mount Etna type: What I think of as a Mount Etna type is one that has not necessarily been traced back to Mount Etna but seems to have similar leaf shape, fruit size and color, early ripening, and cold hardy. A tough, early, small dark fig with the typical Mount Etna fig leaf shape. Though Valle Negra is apparently a tough, early, small dark fig, I don't list it as a Mount Etna type because it has a very different (slender finger) leaf shape.
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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
Valle Negra can not be Mt. Etna type even if it wants to. it's from Val Camonica in Lombardy it seems. 
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Pete
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"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
FrozenJoe

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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
I'd like to point something out.  The whole designation of Mt. Etna type figs began several years back when one forum member said that she had been to the area of Mt. Etna and that Hardy Chicago is typical of the the fig trees that grow wild around the Mt. Etna region.  As far as I know that its the only reason that Hardy Chicago and figs that are similar to it are referred to as Mt. Etna types.  Are we really even sure that Mt. Etna has anything to do with these figs?
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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
As a point of clarification:

I am not saying that the forum member's report was inaccurate.  The figs that grow around Mt. Etna may well be very close to Hardy Chicago.  But does that mean that the original American Hardy Chicago tree came from the Mt Etna area?  What about Dark Portuguese?  It seems to me that these Hardy Chicago types were recognized as really good figs a long time ago and spread around even back in the day.  I think that "Hardy Chicago types" is a better classification for these trees, because that is really what we are talking about.  These are the trees that are similar to Hardy Chicago.
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hllyhll

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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
But you yourself say "spread around" -- which implies from an originating point. Best knowledge currently is that that originating point was Mount Etna. Of course not Chicago. That knowledge has been coming from various forum members, nurseries, and apparently Catania University at the base of Mount Etna.

The following thread in particular has a lot of good information:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fig/msg0513485811442.html
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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
Thanks for the link.  Here is a link to the post that I was referring to:
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/fig/msg0207122622354.html

You're right, these figs do have a point of origin in the Old World.  It may well be Mt Etna.  But I think that what we are doing over here in America is basically compiling a list of figs that are similar to Hardy Chicago.
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Posted Reply with quote  #41 
Similar or better than HC, ideally. Multiple reports are that, for example, Marseilles Black and other Mount Etna cultivars are hardier and more productive, and possibly earlier ripening, than Hardy Chicago. Though it seems multiple reports rate HC higher for taste, which accords with my own experience thus far as well.
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Posted Reply with quote  #42 
now.. here is an interesting question. which HC is the real HC? how can we tell they are all same or not? since i heard that HC is a great fig, i searched and asked around and heard that one from now out of business Paradise Nursery is a good one. so i got a HC from a very generous forum member who can source the rooted cutting back to that nursery. but if you look around the internet, you will see number of different reputable nurseries selling HC. are we sure they are all the same? my HC might not be same as someone else's. ok, given more specific shape of leaf and the fig, it's not as bad as trying to match all the Celeste, but i would think this is an exercise in... you know.. by the way DNA test isn't all the definite. they only look at certain markers and we already know that they say two completely different figs are same figs. 
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Pete
Durham, NC
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"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
FMD

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Posted Reply with quote  #43 
I have added two more Mt. Etna varieties to my own collection that I find to be extraordinary in taste and production:

NJ Red and San Donato (Calabria). I am hoping that Chiapetta (San Vincenzo -Calabria) also turns out to be a Mt. Etna type.
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bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #44 
by leaf shape, i think Dominick's fig is similar too. 
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Pete
Durham, NC
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"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
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Posted Reply with quote  #45 
Very good -- off the Mount Etna list with Malta Black and English Brown Turkey, and on with these other cultivars, for now... 

I'm trying to compare as many of these apparent Mount Etna cultivars as possible. Hopefully someone with more space can do so more extensively and systematically.
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Posted Reply with quote  #46 
For Hllyhyll and all others-I know Hardy Chicago was named by Fred Born but there have been documented posts that it got to Chicago via Brooklyn, I think that Belleclare had this fig and somebody inherited Belleclare's original notes and posted it on the forum, the original fig was listed as coming from the "Rifugio di Sapienza" which is in fact on Mt. Etna, the picture of the notes is here on the forum somewhere...and as we all know the Sicilian name of this fig "Mongibello" means beautiful mountain, referring to Mt Etna!
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Posted Reply with quote  #47 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafaelissimmo
For Hllyhyll and all others-I know Hardy Chicago was named by Fred Born but there have been documented posts that it got to Chicago via Brooklyn, I think that Belleclare had this fig and somebody inherited Belleclare's original notes and posted it on the forum, the original fig was listed as coming from the "Rifugio di Sapienza" which is in fact on Mt. Etna, the picture of the notes is here on the forum somewhere...and as we all know the Sicilian name of this fig "Mongibello" means beautiful mountain, referring to Mt Etna!


Wow Raf You should write a book on this stuff
bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #48 
Mongibello sounds much nicer than Hardy Chicago. if it was just Chicago, that would have been nice. but with Hardy in front of it.. it's like Hardy Windy. 
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Pete
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"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
vito12831

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Posted Reply with quote  #49 
I think Angelo's Dark is one of the better My Etna figs, very produtive. And very hardy. It's in the ground in Staten Island NY and has never been protected in the winter.
Vito
rafaelissimmo

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Posted Reply with quote  #50 
Actually the picture of Belleclare Hardy Chicago history was Bullet08's thread on Belleclare Figs but I am sure Pete knew that!
:-)
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