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Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Some aspects of this topic have been covered previously but I thought it was worth starting a new thread since I wasn't able to find all the information I needed.  According to the weather forecast we are supposed to get an arctic blast on Friday in the northeast and mid-atlantic.  In my area they are predicting a high of 20 deg. F and low of 9 deg. F.  I could be wrong but I don't recall it getting into the single digits in the 3-4 years I have been growing figs and this has me concerned. 

My dormant figs are in an unattached garage with a dirt floor and no heat source (and no electricity).  They did great last year but it was a milder winter.  It would be easy to bring the 2-3 gallon figs in the house and put them into our coldest room (around 60 deg. F) but the others are too large.  I am assuming that bringing them in for a day or soisn't going to hurt them even though they will quickly undergo a large temperature change - correct?

For the figs in larger containers I'm looking into getting one of those space heaters shaped like a radiator that have an internal oil reservoir.  The goal would be to raise the temperature in the garage around 10-20 degrees (say from 15 deg to 30 deg).  I would have to bring an extension cord into the garage.  I read that you are not supposed to use extension cords with these because of fire hazards, or if you do then use a very heavy duty cord.  Does anyone have advice on this - I don't want to burn down my garage with the figs!  Also these space heaters are designed for indoor use at higher temps e.g. to raise the temperature from 55 deg to 70 deg.  Is it a problem to use them at low temps like I am proposing?  I know you can get thermostats that will turn on the space heater when the temp reaches a minimum (like 30 deg) but at least for now I am planning on only using this for extreme lows maybe 2-3 times per year so I want to keep it simple.  I'll just turn it on for 12 hours at a time at a setting that will raise the garage temp a few degrees.

Thanks in advance for your input and happy new year!
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Steve MD zone 7a
RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Im buying a DuraHeat 23K btu kerosene heater from Home Depot  on the way home tonight.
My figs are in an unheated garage as well and up to this point the lowest temp its gotten down to was 27F.
I really dont know what the minimum temp potted figs can stand is.
cis4elk

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Another option may be to put the heater on a timer and have it turn on for 15-30 minutes every hour or two.

I used that type of heater recently while making sausage in the garage and the extension cord and heater cord both got very hot.
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Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
The kerosene heater would solve my extension cord issue but it is a pricier alternative.  Also I have no idea where one would buy kerosene.  Does HD stock it too?

So far my garage has been down to the low 20's and the figs look fine but I wouldn't want to push it much further than that.
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Steve MD zone 7a
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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
If you don't want to heat, just make a chicken-wire cage around each one and fill it with straw or chopped leaves. Or even wrap them in carpets, anything to insulate. After insulating them, pull them into the sunshine for the day, then back into the garage before dark. My understanding is that should be enough for most figs.

If you do use the space heater, please be extra careful and don't let it run during the night. Way too many houses have burnt down from unattended space heaters. All it takes is a 'coon come messing around looking for that warm spot and your garage is toast.
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Zone 7b (Central Arkansas) Seven trees in the ground: Hardy Chicago, Celeste(?), LSU gold, Italian Black, Southern Brown Turkey(?), Strawberry Verte, and Unk yellow.  Trees in pots: VdB, CdD, and Sicilian?
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
I think I'll at least spread some straw over the top of the pots.  I hadn't thought about an animal knocking over the space heater. I've heard that some space heaters have a feature that shuts them off when they fall on their side. 
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Steve MD zone 7a
JackHNVA

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
You are not that far from me, can lend you a Kero heater if desired.  Safer Alternatives to electric heaters are heat mats under your pots or a large barrel of water next to or around the figs  with a farm heater in the water, the water gets warm then acts like a large radiator all night. Old fashion HW stores and farm supply stores sell water heaters for chicken/horse and pasture waterers.
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Zone 7
Celeste, White Marseilles, Beer's Black, Green Greek, White Italy one unknown, Chicago hardy, White Naples, Portuguese Black, Italian Honey.Black Bethleham, Sal's C, Several unknowns.

Looking for dark sweet types from Azores and southern Spain (figs, not women), 2014 goal is to acquire Kathleen Black
cis4elk

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
If were talking about a few degrees, maybe a heat lamp like what is used for chicks?
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Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6
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Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Calvin, that is a good idea too.  Probably with 2 or 3 of these I could project enough heat at the containers to keep them from getting too cold.
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Steve MD zone 7a
rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
http://www.amazon.com/DeLonghi-EW7707CM-Safeheat-ComforTemp-Oil-Filled/dp/B000TGDGLU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1388516717&sr=8-1&keywords=oil+filled+electric+heater

anti freeze setting, shuts off if tipped over, metal is not hot enough to start a fire.  The Q I can't answer is will you need 1 or 2?
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Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
JackHNVA

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
http://www.statelinetack.com/item/k-and-h-ultimate-pail-heater/E000343/
in a 30G barrel of water, my water temp averaged about 55 degrees during a week of 15 degrees, kept the area around the figs above freezing
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Zone 7
Celeste, White Marseilles, Beer's Black, Green Greek, White Italy one unknown, Chicago hardy, White Naples, Portuguese Black, Italian Honey.Black Bethleham, Sal's C, Several unknowns.

Looking for dark sweet types from Azores and southern Spain (figs, not women), 2014 goal is to acquire Kathleen Black
rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
If you scroll down to the chart of length vs amps you'll see that a 25' or 50' cord with 10 G wire will easily handle 20 Amps.  These oil heaters max out at 15 Amps.  Even 12G wire will handle 20 Amps

http://www.homedepot.com/c/factors_to_consider_when_choosing_extension_cords_HT_BG_EL

$30  25' 12/3 cord

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-25-ft-12-3-Extension-Cord-AW62614/100661446
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Or cheaper or more feet at the same price if you're a prime member.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=12%2F3%20extension%20cord
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Zone 6, MO

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Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
saxonfig

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 

I personally like Jacks suggestions. I have more than one farm store nearby that have those watering bucket heaters.

I will be using something similar when I get my greenhouse built. I have some old aquarium heaters for larger tanks (55 gal+) that should work pretty well in a 50 gal plastic barrel. I also have one of those heaters that attaches directly to the top of a propane tank (BBQ grill size).


Just some other ideas to consider. 
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Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Jack also mentioned to me the idea of a bird bath heater that would dip into a 55 gallon barrel with water.  It so happens that I have one of these in my garage filled with water to moderate the highs and lows.  So this might be the best way to go from a safety standpoint.  I also still like the radiator that Bob has linked to since we need one for the indoors anyway.
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Steve MD zone 7a
aphahn

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
You might want to consider Eliot Coleman space within a space style protection. He uses floating row cover supported by small hoops inside of high tunnels to get 10-15 deg protection for growing veggies. Laying the pots horizontally to bring the trees closer to the ground (the biggest heat source you will can have) and covering with a tarp would buy you at least a few degrees. If you could keep a few inches of air space above the pots and trees with hoops or 2x4s or something, even better. I would be very cautions about heaters and lights, especially in combination with tarps. A more passive source of heat would be to fill 10 five gallon buckets (milk jugs, or whatcha got) with hot water and placing them among the trees. Not something you would want to do everyday, but 3-4 times a winter would be a cinch.
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bada_bing

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
I'm not a source of fig care info, but I do know about electricity.
If you go with an electric heater, a few things to consider:

1. Make sure you use an adequate extension cord. The longer
the cord, the larger the wire size needed. 12 gauge is good for
50 to perhaps 100 feet, depending on other factors. 10 gauge
is sufficient for any reasonable length, if used correctly.

2. When using an outlet for a heavy current load, especially an outdoor
outlet, make sure the outlet and cord plug are in good condition with no
visible corrosion. Make sure the plug makes good positive contact in the
outlet. Sometimes it is helpful to slightly splay out the plug contact
blades to give extra contact pressure. It's a good idea to check the area
around plug connections for localized warmth after the heater has first been
run for an hour or two. 

3. Don't cover up any part of the extension cord with anything that could
insulate it while it is being used. Don't pile up excess cord in a small compact
pile. It could potentially create a hot spot that takes a long time to build temperature. 

4. If the heater used has a lower power setting, the current
draw is in direct proportion to the wattage used. A lower power
setting is much better from an electrical standpoint if it is 
sufficient heat for the the purpose. If the heater has a 700 watt
setting (most do), that would the setting to use, even if continuously,
if it provides enough heat. 

5. If this was an installation that was marginally served by
extension cords because of the wire distance or the amount
of heat required, upping the voltage used from 110/120 to
220/240 (like a welding/dryer/range socket) can provide twice
the power over the same distance and wire gauge. Most likely
this isn't a consideration for your application, but is worth 
considering any time a heavier wattage load is installed.
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bada_bing in Tucson, zone 9a
or at work in Prudhoe bay, I don't think the zones go that low
My in ground trees: VdB, Panache 
My potted figs : Vista, RdB, Strawberry verte, Atreano, Black Madeira
Tissue culture plants: Hardy Chicago, "Blue" Ischia, Desert King, LSU Purple, Kadota, Celeste  
Hope to find: CdDx, Maltese Beauty, BlacK Ischia, desert adapted figs
rafaelissimmo

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Jon just posted a potted figs link a week or so ago, something published in England maybe, it states potted figs shouldn't get below the mid 20s. My garage is detached and unheated-I am going with the oscillating electric heater attached to heavy duty extension cord, fire hazards and all. I may bring in a couple of smaller pots. Get ready folks!!
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Maro2Bear

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Rewton

The one thing I'm thinking about is that this is a one or two-day overnight low. I don't think you need go spend exta- ordinary costs or measures for one or two nights.
I think ANY type of heater in your garage will be good, even if you heat up hot water in a few barrels or jugs to raise the temp at dusk. It's a night or two of cold temps ( for now ).
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Mark B., Glenn Dale, MD Zone 7a
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
bada_bing and Bob, that's the sort of information I was looking for with respect to the extension cords.
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Steve MD zone 7a
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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
I use the an oil filled radiant heater fed by an outdoor extension cord and a thermocube. The heater is turned on as temps drop below 35 degrees, the cube turns on and fires up the heater. If the GH reaches 45, the cube turns the heater off. Don't be afraid to use the cord. Just make sure water cannot get in the cord. My GH is only 16' from my deck which is where the power is.

Oh, and I just packed in my 2 large Beall trees an White Marseilles in my garage. Can't loose these guys!
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Dennis
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
and Sultane........don't wanna lose him either!
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Group your trees into a small area, cover them all with a cheap, plastic drop cloth, and place some strings of Christmas lights, with bulbs, around all the containers.  The heat from the bulbs will warm the trapped air around the pots/containers, branches, and the drop cloth will contain the added heat, and create a warmer micro-climate around all the trees.  It's quick, ugly, temporary, and CHEAP.  You probably already have the heat source....the Christmas lights.  If you don't, they are probably 1/2 price, now.  The cost of these running these lights is just pennies/day.  No fumes, no blown fuses, no fire hazard.

Hope this helps.



Frank



EDIT: 

Has anyone ever used these exothermic, chemical heat packs/hand warmers to heat a container to prevent damaging, hard freezes?  Just wondering if these gel packs might have a use for "defrosting" fig trees......
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will

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
I'm a electrician and I couldn't have said it better than bada bing did!!
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
This morning the temperature in the garage was 26 deg. F and dropping (with an outdoor temp of 14 deg.).  The outdoor high is supposed to be 22 deg today with a low of 9 deg. tonight.  To be safe I brought my 1 year old Bl. Madeira and Figo Preto in doors.  The rest of the figs in the garage are in 5 gallon containers or above and tend to be cold hardy varieties.  I also piled up snow around my Kathleen's Black and Sicilian Red in-ground trees which have been wrapped to varying degrees.  I went ahead and ordered a radiator (oil) type of heater and 12 gauge cord as per the suggestions above.  They are supposed to be delivered this afternoon.  If case delivery is delayed due to the weather I shoveled snow up against the walls of the garage.  A couple days ago I sprayed the expandable insulation foam stuff in all the gaps along the foundation of the garage as well.  It will definitely stay at least 5 degrees above the outdoor temp no matter what.  Time will tell.
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Steve MD zone 7a
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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Last winter I bought a temperature controlled outlet and connected a space heater to it in my garage. My figs seemed to do fine and I didn't notice my energy bill being higher. Of course follow the advice of bada bing about type of extension cord and heater, etc. Many space heaters are equipped with automatic shut-off if they are tipped.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Allied-Precision-Ind-Temperature-Controlled-Outlet-TC035-/350922011769?pt=US_Networking_Plugs_Jacks_Wall_Plates&hash=item51b494f479
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ADelmanto

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
I use a thermostat that turns my electric heater on at 35 deg and off at 45 deg.

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E512

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
This is only my second year with figs - and I was a little unprepared so I decided to go with the Christmas light method here in NJ. I had two one year old figs in an unheated shed last winter and night temps got down to about 11 degrees for a week straight. I did nothing and they both came back strong. They are in big 20 gallon or so containers. This winter I have three in there - when the forecast came out I wrapped the pots in insulation. Then today I strung some little white lights all around the branches - I have no tarp and right now it's about 16 in there. I'm not sure if this will work or not - but I'm pretty sure the roots will be ok because they're in a lot of dirt - so hopefully all won't be lost! 

I'll let you know how low it gets and (if I remember) I'll post whether or not they survive! 
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
E512 - welcome to the forum!  I've never tried the lights but I was thinking the larger cone-shaped xmas lights would put out more heat than the small white ones but maybe I'm wrong.  The insulation should help.  Anyway it's encouraging that your trees did well last year.  
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Steve MD zone 7a
E512

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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Yeah - I would have used the larger ones if I had them, but I started switching over to LED lights and I only had those little guys left! They put a little heat out - I'm hoping it's enough to keep it above single digits.
E512

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Well, I think larger lights would have been a better bet - my thermometer said it got down to about 6 degrees out there! I'm still hopeful that they'll pull through since it was just a short time. These guys are definitely used to a bit of cold from the past winter. I'll post here in May (that's when they usually start waking up) to let you know if they came through and how much die-back, etc.
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
Hopefully the microenvironment around your trees (wrapped with the lights) kept them from feeling the full brunt of the 6 degree temps.  I ran my space heater at an intermediate setting all night and it kept the garage between 26-29 degrees while the outdoor temps went down to 9 deg.  The prediction here is 3 deg. on Monday night - ouch!
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Steve MD zone 7a
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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Hi all ,
( I have posted the exact same info in a couple other threads , so sorry if you are reading it again . Hopefully it helps someone . )

For those that have an unheated garage or shed it might be helpful to run a cord to it and plug in 2 or 3 60 watt incandescent  light bulbs and see what happens . I use three  50 watt bulbs to heat my figloo (7x7x8 feet ). I have them hooked up to a thermostat that turns them on and off . it was -26 c (-17f) yesterday and no problem maintaining set temp of 36f. The walls have 2.5 inches of insulation so that definitely helps . But it can't hurt if you think you will lose plants and it wouldn't cost more than 1 or 2 dollars to run those bulbs all day long . My power rate is apx 25 cents a kilowatt hour including taxes and extra charges so at 4.32 kilowatt hours for running three 60 light bulbs 24 hours , that works out to $ 1.08 per day . Of course you could use more bulbs or higher wattage too.
That is the absolute maximum but in reality i spend 10 to 15 dollars a month to maintain 36f on the coldest 3 months .
A thermostat is not necessary , you can unplug when not needed or use less bulbs . The light does not affect the plants or wake them up .
You could also put all your trees in one part of your garage and create a box around it with plywood or cardboard or tarps or foam board and just heat that section instead of the whole garage.

heres a link about my setup . 

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/figloo-update-5040799?highlight=figloo

John
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
John, your set-up looks great.  However, my garage has no insulation and basically about 1/2 inch of wood is all that separates the figs from the elements.  That plus the larger space (it's a one car garage) leads me to think I need more than 60 watt bulbs.  One good thing is that the floor is about 6 inches lower than the soil surrounding the garage on 3 sides so that helps.  However, for others who use a small garden shed the bulbs might be all that is needed.
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Steve MD zone 7a
E512

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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
Hey great figloo John! Thanks for that input - definitely some great ideas there. If this winter has taught me anything it's that I need to prepare a setup that will allow me to safely keep the temps out of the danger zone! I have some work cut out for me this summer...

Well - tonight is supposed to get down to about 9 degrees around here. I went with the same setup as last time, but put two 150watt bulbs in the light fixtures that I have in the shed. They are up near the ceiling - so I'm not sure that will help warm the air in there... but I figure it's worth a shot. Outside temps are at 31 now and the shed is at 38.
rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
You've inspired me to check on the thermometer I have in the coldest part of my garage.  It's 34 while outside it's less than 0 F.  I'll sleep easier tonight.   :)
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Zone 6, MO

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Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
Jan 7th  2014 ...

Holy moly; it is (brrr) cold here today!

+5*F and windy with a chill-factor of -16*F.

Prolonged extreme low temps and a (dry) wind combination do kill figs.

I am not sure that I have experienced this kind of extreme cold before...

I only wish that Al Gore's prophecy comes true. Balmy CA-like weather
right here in NJ so that I can grow oranges too. Yeah right!

On the bright side, we should be breaking above-freeze temps come 2 more days.
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Norhayati

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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
George, I read one of the newspaper in Malaysia that says the cold blast will last until next week for the midwest and new england. The temperature will drop below zero and with the windchill factor some areas will be around -50 degrees. I've been to NJ, lovely state, stayed in Hoboken for two weeks.

Norhayati
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RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
It was 37 in the garage when I went to bed last night and when I woke up it was 21F. Outdoors it was 6 F and very windy.
I've got the 50k btu tube kerosene heater turned on now and I'll switch over to the indoor type kerosene heater in and hour or so.
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
My garage temp. went from 30 when I went to bed to 25 when I got up this morning.  It's +1 outside now.  I'll probably continue running the heater on a relatively high setting until tomorrow morning. One plant I didn't really do anything for is my Russian Pomegranate.  It's against a south facing brick wall.  It will be interesting to see if it survives.
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Steve MD zone 7a
E512

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Posted Reply with quote  #41 
Those 150 watt bulbs really made a difference out there - I wish I had used them last Friday. They kept the shed at 11 or warmer - pretty good considering the temps last night. It's about 21 in there right now and 6 outside. Not sure what my electric bill will look like after this two have run for 36 hours straight though... I'm definitely looking forward to warmer weather.
RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #42 
When I arrived at home today the temp in the garage was 30F and the outside temp was 10F. I used less than 2 gallons of kerosene to heat the garage all day. It's supposed to warmer tomorrow during the day so maybe I will turn off the heater in the morning and restart it in the evening.
jake

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Posted Reply with quote  #43 
Quote:
Originally Posted by E512
Those 150 watt bulbs really made a difference out there - I wish I had used them last Friday. They kept the shed at 11 or warmer - pretty good considering the temps last night. It's about 21 in there right now and 6 outside. Not sure what my electric bill will look like after this two have run for 36 hours straight though... I'm definitely looking forward to warmer weather.



The cost of electrical power in NJ is about 16.3 cents per KWH. At that rate two 150 watt bulbs will cost $1.76 to use for 36 hours. Not too bad.
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E512

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Posted Reply with quote  #44 
Thanks Jake - that's great news - especially since I decided to leave them in until it gets above freezing around here. Hopefully that's tomorrow!
E512

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Posted Reply with quote  #45 
Well - it seems like each fig has a few little budding leaves on it. The three year olds have no dieback - and the little guy had just a bit of dieback. That's pretty cold hardy, because it was well below freezing in that shed for several weeks. One night it even got down to 6 degrees! But it seems like those two 150 watt bulbs and the lights worked out. What a relief...

Of course now I started reading all these threads about borer beetles... so there's that to look out for.
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