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Figfan203

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
So I've been looking around the web about fig tree fert and everyone says something differant.
Person A: figs should get a fert with low nitrogen because it'll just put on leaves with high N content
Person B: plants need 3x the amount of nitrogen...
Person C: get a balanced 10-10-10.

I have some espoma plant tone in the garage( i think it's like a 3-4-5 ratio). Any good for in ground or potted plants?

Have you done trials using differant fertilizers and seen side by side comparison?


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Mike in zone 6B
bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
any balanced fert will do the job. i think the basic ratio is 3-1-2. but i have used most MG products and they all seems to provide similar results. i also used 1-1-1 ratio before. important thing is to use it in moderation. 
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Pete
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"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

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***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
Chivas

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
I asked Baud what he uses, he told me 7-3-7 in march before buds break, then may 7-3-7 again or 6-3-10 (6-3-10 for more figs if you like) and then last one in July 6-3-10.  In March he also adds a special compost (not sure what's in it) and he uses only organic fertilizer.  I believe Ascpete is using fertilizer that is close in ratio, if you look up his results, I would say if you're not sure follow his recipe, it works excellent.
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newnandawg

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Here is Ascpete's program     http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1278563825&postcount=16
Dieseler

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Mike most are different in fert department.
What has worked for many years for me is 24.8.16 .
Knowing when to stop and knowing pruning technique for the trees goes a long way.
Its different in different climates im sure as some seasons are shorter than others.
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Mike,
IMO,
Person A is referring to producing fig trees, excessive Nitrogen will produce unwanted vegetative growth.
Person B  is possibly referring to the 3-1-2 ratio of actual plant's use of NPK nutrients for vegetative growth.
Person C is using a 10-10-10 balance NPK mineral based fertilizer...

They are all correct... for best vegetative growth 24-8-16, 9-3-6 or 3-1-2 has been proven to work. I actually combine Miracle-Gro All purpose and the Plant-Tone or Garden-Tone, but either one alone can work. The one thing that is sometimes missing in those discussions are the micro nutrients. The "balance" that I usually refer to is the "Balance of Micro and Macro nutrients", they are absolutely necessary for healthy plant growth.
BTW, the Garden-Tone and MG combined have a ratio of 6-5-6 which is close to Baud's recommended ratio 7-3-7 as Chivas mentioned in his post.

For in-ground trees, Espoma-tone and Miracle-Gro can be used once in early spring to provide an initial boost for in-ground trees, the Espoma to start microbial activity and the MG for initial feeding. Mulching with good compost and some added Dolemite Limestone will usually provide enough nutrients in healthy soils. The usual disclaimer still applies, you should also get your soil and pH tested : )
Good Luck.

<edit> Most solid organic fertilizers need warmth, moisture, time and active soil microbe to break down their ingredients and make them available to the plants, much like slow release mineral based fertilizers. I use Miracle-Gro for short term feeding, before the Espoma-Tone kicks in,  but any organic water soluble fertilizer will work.
dkirtexas

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Ditto - Pete
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Danny K "EL CAZADOR DE HIGO"
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eboone

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascpete

For in-ground trees, Espoma-tone and Miracle-Gro can be used once in early spring to provide an initial boost for in-ground trees, the Espoma to start microbial activity and the MG for initial feeding. Mulching with good compost and some added Dolemite Limestone will usually provide enough nutrients in healthy soils. The usual disclaimer still applies, you should also get your soil and pH tested : )
Good Luck.

<edit> Most solid organic fertilizers need warmth, moisture, time and active soil microbe to break down their ingredients and make them available to the plants, much like slow release mineral based fertilizers. I use Miracle-Gro for short term feeding, before the Espoma-Tone kicks in,  but any organic water soluble fertilizer will work.


I have a question about this.
For about 2 years in the 1980s I had a subscription to Organic Gardening magazine (but have read zero about organic methods since then except on gardening forums), and recall reading repeatedly then that they believed adding 'chemical fertilizers' would interfere with or kill beneficial microbes in the soil, part of their zeal for all things organic.  Now, I am in no way an organic gardener (heck, I would never get to eat my home grown peaches or apples without sprays), but have always wondered if those claims were true.
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Ed
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hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Some "farmers" use ammonia as their fertilizer of choice, it absolutely kills microbes.

I think what they were referring to though was the fact that chemical fertilizers provide no food for microbes in the soil. If only chemicals are applied, and all the organic crop residues are removed or burned, no cover crop allowed to grow... the microbes will starve. That starts what is referred to as the chemical treadmill, where more fertilizers are needed year after year because the soil food web is no longer functioning to support plant life. 
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Chivas

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
There is quite a bit of ammonia in blood meal and fish fertilizer (not nearly the same amount as in ammonia nitrate though) and they are having beneficial aspects for soil biology without killing the beneficials.  Honestly the only time I have liked used ammonia fertilizers is growing commercially in rockwool substrate, cucumbers to be exact, they need the extra ammonia for fruit quality in my opinion otherwise fruit may become pale at different times of the year.  Growing in rockwool is different than soil of course but I would also apply preventive fungi and bacteria for root diseases and still they would not all be killed with ammonia fertilizer, then again I am not applying a whole lot of it, a little ammonia goes a very long way, but can be more harmful to crops that are berries (tomatoes and peppers) where it also blocks calcium.  For figs I wouldn't use ammonia (although I am using blood meal and fish fertilizer) since they don't need it as a woody crop and also because they need calcium more than they need ammonia.  That is my opinion which may seem strange than I am using fertilizers with ammonia, but I know they are not containing enough ammonia to cause problems (I believe the blood meal I am using contains about 4-6 mmols of ammonia at 1 ec which I know most will be released as gas into the atmosphere before it ever absorbs into the root zone.)
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ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Ed,
Chemical fertilizers alone are not responsible for dead soil, Commercial farming practices are the culprit. Plowing and removing crop residue (organic matter) damages soil structure, exposes and kills soil microbes. My containers and garden soil are all teeming with earthworms and visible colonies of soil microbes. I do also use cover crops, "cut and drop" and mulch (with leaves, wood chips and compost).

BTW, I also had a subscription to OG for several years.
hoosierbanana

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
I was unaware of the complexities Chivas, what I was talking about are the commodity crop farmers that spray or inject liquid ammonia into the soil, like in the movie King Corn. 
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Sas

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 

I saw this last year on Bill's Figs: http://figs4fun.com/bills_figs.html  He says,

"I use Osmocote fertilizer. I use it because it is simple. One application in the spring is all that is needed. I use the flower and plant food for the first two or three years and then move to the flower and vegetable garden food. For a container the size of the ones that I use I would put in four (4) measures. I use the measure that comes with the Osmocote. It is approximately the size of a coffee measure. To each of the pots I add 4 capfuls. "

I've used it last summer and it worked.
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jdsfrance

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Hi figfan203,
In ground, I would advise to use a X-X-X fertilizer - 10-10-10 for example.
For container, I would try a X-Y-X with a lower Y as it is said that it promotes root growth - which in container culture is not the main goal.
To make a long story short, in N-P-K fertilizers, N promotes green growth, P root growth, K fruit growth/production .
Of course feeding a 0-0-1000 for a bigger crop does not make sense !
I'm using a balanced fertilizer - the trees take what they want and leave the rest .
In my short season climate, it is important to stop fertilizing as of 1st august for the trees to harden the branches.
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Chivas

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
I have thought about this, when you have a tree with heavy fruit load, it may need more calicum, similar to apple trees to avoid bitter bit, my thought is there is a huge demand for potassium when the figs swell but maybe 2-3 applications of calcium are needed if there is significant fruit load on a tree to help with development as they are setting.  I am thinking more like a foliar spray, calcium chloride may be an option, it helps fight fungi as it is a salt as well.
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tebmsu97

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
http://www.lsuagcenter.com/NR/rdonlyres/3460F13E-9742-4A43-BD0C-A92B3037D9F3/38103/pub1529Figs.pdf

Per the LSU ag center (for south Louisiana) 1lb of 8-8-8 per year of the age of the tree up to 10 years.
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Todd
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leon_edmond

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
This year I'm trying a 13-13-13 granular fertilizer both in ground and in my pots. I tried all of the combos mentioned and I am just going to go with a balanced 1:1:1 this year as jdsfrance talks about. I tried a 3-1-2 for several years and all it did for me was produce more growth and very little fruit production.
I'm not being critical of anyone else's recommendation. I would like to experiment some this season. I have some older Italian friends in Chicago who swear by using a 10-10-10 for years with excellent results. I'm also topping my pots with some well composted steer manure.
This is a good thread.
Chapman

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
I think Osmocote is best for container trees because it fertilizes over a long period, and granular for inground trees.  I use the LSU guidelines for my inground trees.  Here is a chart with rates for the Osmocote I use.
http://everris.us.com/sites/default/files/e901316_.pdf
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leon_edmond

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
I tried Osmocote as well.
bullet08

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
i'm going back to what i started with. osmocote on top, and MG every week till the end of july. that gave me most vegetative growth. more branches, more figs. dolomite lime every few months till end of the season. i tried few different fertilizers, but that gave me most growth and most figs. i might try organic fertilizer gain next yr.. maybe i didn't give it enough chance and last yr, it did rain a lot. 
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Pete
Durham, NC
Zone 7b

"don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash." - sir winston churchill
"the problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." - the baroness thatcher

***** all my figs have FMV/FMD, in case you're wondering. *****
***** and... i don't sell things. what little i have will be posted here in winter for first come first serve base to be shared. no, i'm not a socialist...*****
Dieseler

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
I will stick to the ole program.  ; )
Rich60

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
HI Martin
What is the ole program , and what kind of soil do you uses i saw some where you uses PRO MIX can you tell me the name of the maker.
Thanks .
                           Rich 
RichinNJ

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Foliar feeding with MG using the MG applicator
Rob

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
A couple things to add that I haven't seen discussed so far in this thread:

1. The right ratio to use will depend on the soil or mix to which it is being applied.  If the soil already has one of the 3 primaries in abundance, then it doesn't need as much of that.  So you should consider the composition of your grow mix. For example, the commonly used 5-1-1 frequently may contain pine bark that may have been composted very little or not at all.  The microorganisms that decompose this may consume available nitrogen.  In this case you'd need to make sure your mix has a high percentage of N.

2. It would be grand coincidence if 10-10-10 fertilizer were truly "balanced."  What's a more balanced diet, 10 hamburgers and 10 pieces of corn, or 1 hamburger and 100 pieces of corn?  The point is, a balanced fertilizer is one that contains the same percentage of nutrients that the plant actually uses.  Of course studies have been done to determine what that is, but I don't know if there is a scientific consensus (probably there is, I just don't know what it is).  My opinion is that Miracle Gro probably comes closest to this in most situations, and it is 3-1-2 (or 9-3-6, etc).  But certainly there may be other studies or opinions that have merit as well. 

3. Even if you use something that is not the ideal ratio, the excess unused nutrients will likely be rinsed away before they cause any harm to the plant, as long as you don't "burn" the plant by using too concentrated a fertilizer.  That's why 10-10-10 probably works just as well as 9-3-6.

4. Think about if you want mycorrhizae. Might help uptake of available nutrients.  Some folks swear by it. 

5. Think about trace elements.  There are several other minerals needed in small quantities.  It's likely that most commercial mixes have these added.  I don't know about pine bark or peat moss.  Somebody should investigate if that mix might be deficient in a minor requirement.  If you are concerned, there are weak fertilizers that have the minors in sufficient quantities that can be added to the mix up front.

6. Think about pH.  This influences how well roots can absorb what's there.  I believe that if you use a liquid fertilizer mixed with water, the pH of this fluid will be near 7, and will be absorbed short term regardless of the pH of your growing mix.  In other words, if you liquid fertilize once over week or two, this could help compensate for too high or low pH.  A plant does not need to be fertilized every day.  More like a reptile than a human.
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Rich60

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Thanks RichinNJ and Rob 
                                             Rich :)
rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Great thoughts above.

I use osmocote and epsoma and worm castings.  Organic fertilizers often use up nitrogen first before adding it back and more.  So they can actually make your soil nitrogen deficient for a while, the same as if you have a wood chip based soil.  That's why I never use them alone.  Osmocote and miracle grow will not kill your soil microbes.  If a plant looks pale I'll give it some miracle grow and ironite.  Pine bark produces a soil high in calcium so I don't worry about that.
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Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
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