How do you know that your tree is dormant?

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nycfig

Registered:1380768118
Posts: 884

Posted 1415803396	Reply with quote #1

This sounds redundant, but here's why I'm asking: I purchased a four or five year old Kathleen's Black earlier this year. It is potted in a 25 gallon resin wine barrel, aka Bill's Figs pot (It is not a SIP). The grower did not tell me how long the tree was in that pot but did say that the tree definitely needed to be root pruned. I noticed that the tree had some brown spots on some of the leaves and assumed it was due to the tree needing a root prune. When the tree got to my backyard it was placed in full sun, watered and fertilized regularly. I began to notice the brown spots starting to spread. Gradually the leaves with the spots started to turn brown and fall off. Ideas of the tree being root bound started to combine with ideas of fig rust. Can fig rust happen in NYC? From what I've read it's not common but can happen. I decided to wait until the tree went dormant to root prune. There are no leaves on the tree at all now. This is not an issue except that every fig tree in my small yard still has leaves. Most are turning yellow and beginning to fall off, but the leaves are still there. It's obvious the KB dropped her leaves early. The limbs and trunk of the tree are healthy. It produced about 10 beautiful and delicious figs this year (for it's size it should have produced more). You can't stick your finger into the soil because of the roots. The tree is about 5 1/2 feet tall from the soil line. The trunk caliper is about 2". it has three main branches from the trunk all about 3/4" to 1" thick. Lots of smaller branches coming from the main branches. Late in September or early in October I slammed a 1" pipe down into the root mass to the bottom of the pot and pulled about 20 plugs from different locations. I looked at each plug that was removed and saw roots in each. Nothing really thick (the thickest was about the size of an iPhone charge cord), but I expected each plug to be completely filled with roots and they were not. Filled the holes with Fafard 52. So, does the tree have rust? Is it root bound? Both? How can you tell if the tree is really dormant so it can be root pruned? Or does it even matter at this point? Sorry about the picture. I had good pictures of the leaves from earlier this year but they were accidentally deleted (It figures!). Had to find other pic from the yard with KB in the background and crop it down. This is from 09/19/14. You can see that some of the leaves are yellowing around the edges and turning brown. Almost all leaves had brown spots at this point, except for a few at the very top. __________________ Danny NYC Z7a It's all about the figs! Facebook: NYCfigs Buying Fig Trees and Cuttings From the Internet

Rewton

Registered:1291943117
Posts: 1,946

Posted 1415804193	Reply with quote #2

It definitely does sound as though the tree has entered dormancy, perhaps a bit early because of rust. You will definitely want to root prune and probably top prune some as well. The usual time to do this is late winter/early Spring (before emerging from dormancy) although you could even do it now. __________________ Steve MD zone 7a

nycfig

Registered:1380768118
Posts: 884

Posted 1415807658	Reply with quote #3

Quote: Originally Posted by Rewton It definitely does sound as though the tree has entered dormancy, perhaps a bit early because of rust. You will definitely want to root prune and probably top prune some as well. The usual time to do this is late winter/early Spring (before emerging from dormancy) although you could even do it now. Thanks, Steve. Rust can make a tree go into dormancy early? Are there any steps I can take now that will help the tree in the spring? Other than making sure leaves are clear from the ground and treating with copper, is there anything else I can do? Was reading this thread started by Soni about rust and early dormancy, but I believe she is in GA. I didn't really think rust could be a problem in the northeast. __________________ Danny NYC Z7a It's all about the figs! Facebook: NYCfigs Buying Fig Trees and Cuttings From the Internet

Rewton

Registered:1291943117
Posts: 1,946

Posted 1415812623	Reply with quote #4

Danny, I think that rust can make a tree lose its leaves late in the season and thus trigger dormancy earlier than the tee would typically enter it. Others further north of me can weigh in but it is my impression that, while the south has more problems with rust, growers in the northeast can get it too, especially in the event that plant material from rust prone areas is brought into a fig collection. There should be multiple threads on the forum that describe ways to fight rust - fortunately I haven't had a bad enough problem to warrant taking any action. __________________ Steve MD zone 7a

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1415824413	Reply with quote #5

Hi nycfig, When you move a figtree from one spot to another, the tree gets shocked, and that alone can explain the leaves dropping early . I bought 4 trees in September - most likely they came from fig paradise aka the Mediterranean belt, and those are already naked by now - they are the only ones so far to have dropped all leaves. Those 4 had suffered in their pots at the nurseries, lack of light and lack of proper watering and fertilizing. The brown stains can be the normal process of leaves preparing to drop, so I wouldn't be concerned at this point. I wouldn't touch the tree now, as adding new soil will add new nutrients and can trigger new growth. I would rather work on the tree in March or April just before the tree starts to wake up. That is if you plan to keep her in a pot - if you want to put her in ground just go ahead - my 4 are already in ground - just don't touch the roots as in ground, they will work their way without your help. __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

nycfig

Registered:1380768118
Posts: 884

Posted 1415839092	Reply with quote #6

Quote: Originally Posted by jdsfrance Hi nycfig, When you move a figtree from one spot to another, the tree gets shocked, and that alone can explain the leaves dropping early . I bought 4 trees in September - most likely they came from fig paradise aka the Mediterranean belt, and those are already naked by now - they are the only ones so far to have dropped all leaves. Those 4 had suffered in their pots at the nurseries, lack of light and lack of proper watering and fertilizing. The brown stains can be the normal process of leaves preparing to drop, so I wouldn't be concerned at this point. I wouldn't touch the tree now, as adding new soil will add new nutrients and can trigger new growth. I would rather work on the tree in March or April just before the tree starts to wake up. That is if you plan to keep her in a pot - if you want to put her in ground just go ahead - my 4 are already in ground - just don't touch the roots as in ground, they will work their way without your help. Thanks. I never thought of this. I do plan to keep her in the same pot and was going to root prune this weekend. I'll wait until late winter or early spring and that will solve my issue of worrying whether or not the tree is dormant. Are there any steps that I can take now or prepare for just in case the tree does have rust? __________________ Danny NYC Z7a It's all about the figs! Facebook: NYCfigs Buying Fig Trees and Cuttings From the Internet

rafaelissimmo

Registered:1335639347
Posts: 1,473

Posted 1415842132	Reply with quote #7

Danny I had rust on one plant last year, this year no rust problems. I recommend spraying the leaves with neem oil spray if you see incipient rust. Also works on gnats. I am gonna wait til spring to root prune. Just lift it our of the pot and check her out. I find that not all plants have become root bound that quickly in my Bill pots. Take a look first. __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

Rob

Registered:1320245426
Posts: 550

Posted 1415849732	Reply with quote #8

A lot of my trees do that too. I think at least a partial root prune is in order. Like Rafael says, slide it out of the pot and take a look. If a bunch of roots are circling, they should be removed. Now or the spring or any time in between is fine. As long as you do it when the tree doesn't have a lot of leaves, it will be fine. If it's really bad you could do a full root prune. Also may be time for a larger pot. How tall is it? Can you reach the top? If not you might want to either prune some of the top or perhaps attempt to bend it towards the horizontal in espalier form. Just a thought. Not related to the other issues with yellowing, etc. I have about 85 trees in pots, and any that go yellow in august or september I flag with pink construction tape so that I know to root prune and/or up-pot first thing in the spring. Not good to do it in the summer. Other thing is my trees usually send roots down into the ground through the holes in the pot which helps them I think. So I don't move them all summer once I put them in their place on the south side of the house. __________________ Rob Maryland Zone 7 http://rbfigs.webs.com/

dirtguy50

Registered:1398135169
Posts: 256

Posted 1415852110	Reply with quote #9

Can the plant be dormant and still have some leaves attached? Not healthy green leaves but still somewhat green. Obviously, I am new to figs and appreciate this forum. __________________ No, your other left! Zone 6b, Keith in SW Wish List: Violette de Bordeaux & Marsilles Black VS

nycfig

Registered:1380768118
Posts: 884

Posted 1415852435	Reply with quote #10

Quote: Originally Posted by rafaelissimmo Danny I had rust on one plant last year, this year no rust problems. I recommend spraying the leaves with neem oil spray if you see incipient rust. Also works on gnats. I am gonna wait til spring to root prune. Just lift it our of the pot and check her out. I find that not all plants have become root bound that quickly in my Bill pots. Take a look first. I sprayed Neem Oil a few times on the tree and probably could have been more diligent in doing so. I'll start researching what to do for rust just to be on the safe side. After reading the posts here I'll wait until late winter to root prune. In the meantime, I'll prune the top and pull her out of the pot to check under the hood. __________________ Danny NYC Z7a It's all about the figs! Facebook: NYCfigs Buying Fig Trees and Cuttings From the Internet

ejp3

Registered:1193140374
Posts: 668

Posted 1415854440	Reply with quote #11

I would wait until February and then prune the plant. No benefit to doing it any sooner. Most years a few of my plants get rust. Those plants usually drop their leaves sooner than the others but I consider it a non issue. The ones I grow on the coast get it less than the ones growing further inland. I guess it is because of the more wind on the coast. __________________ Ed NY zone 7 Wish list CDD Blanca/Negra

nycfig

Registered:1380768118
Posts: 884

Posted 1415883994	Reply with quote #12

Quote: Originally Posted by ejp3 I would wait until February and then prune the plant. Ed - Root prune, top prune or both? __________________ Danny NYC Z7a It's all about the figs! Facebook: NYCfigs Buying Fig Trees and Cuttings From the Internet

RichinNJ

Registered:1374784282
Posts: 1,687

Posted 1415891102	Reply with quote #13

The brochure from Belleclare says that they used Bordeaux mixture to control rust. I'll spray our grape vines with it to control black rot next year.

ejp3

Registered:1193140374
Posts: 668

Posted 1415932265	Reply with quote #14

Root prune. I would take cuttings right before I am ready to root them. For me now is way too early to even think about starting cuttings. __________________ Ed NY zone 7 Wish list CDD Blanca/Negra

cis4elk

Registered:1347840383
Posts: 1,718

Posted 1415988939 · Edited	Reply with quote #15

I agree with the great info you've been getting. And I feel the same as Ed about starting cuttings now, but you could definetly take a litte off the top when you do your root pruning. Make your cuts above a dormant bud that will grow out away from the center of the tree. Hard to tell from one picture, but you may want to do something to spread the branches after you prune to open the canopy. The tree will get bushier and the all the smaller branches will appreciate not being crowded and shaded. __________________ Calvin Littleton,CO z5/6 Wants List: For everyone to clean-up after themselves and co-exist peacefully. Let's think more about the future of our planet and less about ourselves. :)

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