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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
So you guys want to build a cloner?
Ok, for starters, I participated in a test last year with some moldy Nero 600m cuttings that VS sent me in January (I think....could have been later). I washed the cuttings and stopped by to see my friends at the hydroponic store. I told them I wondered if the cloners work. Well, he showed me 3 trees that were 3 feet tall. He said he rooted them in the cloner. I thought he was trying to make a sell but he swore to me the cloner works. I asked if I could give him some cuttings to root for a test and he agreed. The agreement was, if the cutting root, them I would buy a cloner. I gave him 3 different cuttings: 5 Nero 600m, 3 France cuttings, and Pleasant Gee cuttings. Every week I came back to see the growth---his cloner is clear aka see thru. In 17 days, all cuttings rooted. Here is a picture of the clear cloner:


Here are a few picture of the cuttings that we rooted;


Here is a picture of the cloner I bought showing rooted cuttings:


Here are pics of the one I built:












For a good video that I followed, go here and watch this video:


Next, go to this web site and follow the step by step instructions. Now, whatever you do, DO NOT BUILD ONE USING A 5 GALLON BUCKET! Why? Because, the pump is going to heat up. And it will overheat the water and cook your cuttings. Cloners are expensive but pays for themselves in no time. The one I made does leak about a gallon a water in one week but that's because it has 32 spray heads. If you buy one, use the Rapid Start solution that comes with your unit. And every 3 days, add 5ml of hydrogen perioxide to the water. The grow light does help b/c I leave most of my cuttings inside until they all root. Good luck and enjoy!
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=187728
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Dennis
Charlotte, North Carolina/Zone 8a 
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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
How long is the pump set to run?
Is it on a timer?
Thanks for sharing.


Doug
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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Runs 24/7. The lights are on a timer 6 to 6.
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Very nice, thanks for sharing!
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Phil - Zone 7A - Newark, DE Newbie fig lover just trying to learn.
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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Thanks for sharing! This is great, now I just need my hubby to agree!
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Von Northern VA 7a
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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Thanks Dennis for starting this thread. I did a bit of searching after I saw your earlier post, almost all of the good information on cloners is out there on the Cannabis forums. How long did it take to put yours together? The video you linked mentions $60, thats cheap...Are you using T-5 fluorescents? They are fairly expensive, I guess you could go with regular shop or compact fluorescents.

Mike in Hanover, VA
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afriadoni

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
hi, 
i saw clone tools without using Pump etc on Ebay. named Oxyclone
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FiggyFrank

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Great system, Dennis!  Thanks for sharing.
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Frank
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jenn42

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Looks interesting. What was the success rate of yours & his batches?
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Jenn
Austin, TX Zone 8b

Wish List: CDD, Bryant-Dark Unknown, Red Lebanese, ORoarke, Calvert

Will hopefully have cuttings to trade next year as my yearlings mature
rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Strong work!
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
@Mike--How long did it take to put mine together?  About a day once I had all the pieces and parts.  I really have too many spray heads but that's a good thing--just hard to keep the thing from leaking b/c my pump is pretty strong and large--but adjustable.  As for grow light, you really don't need much.  I use a mixture of T-5s and some others my friends gave me.  The lights are free when you buy a lamp.  I have 4 sets of lights.  Two 4 footers and two 2 footers -- Three have 4 sets of lights.  ALl of these are plugged into a multi-switch that controls the pumps and the lights.  Once side controls the lights, the other side controls the pumps--all on one switch. 

July was a crazy month for me and I had to work some long nights and a few weekends.  So, some cuttings actually stayed in the cloner for 30 days.  As long as they had water, food and light, they were fine.  I have....
1 - EZ CLoner 32
1 - EZ Cloner 64
1 - Commando XL 35 Cloner that I built (leaks a little no matter how much foam tape I put with clamps!)
1 - EZ Cloner 128

What is my success rate?  It was 86% until I tested a set of cuttings in the bucket system.  Every cutting in the bucket cloner died---the water was just too hot.  However, let me mention this too....some cuttings are just not good cuttings.  It may look like a good and strong cutting but if left on the tree may have died anyway due simpily because of nature.  So, success facts can be misleading no matter what method you try.  As for water pumps, some folks say to run the timer 15mins on and 15mins off.  I don't do that.  I just let the dare thing run!  The fastest cuttings that root are the freshest.  For me, it was 17 days.  What cutting was it?  Dominck's Black cuttings....all 8 or 10 of mine rooted.  Started in June, some are now 18" tall of new growth.  But again, all cuttings are not equal!  Remember that!  However,  I won't be going back to rooting cuttings in moss or dirt again.  I use to root inside my office and my basement.  I had to find a way to root without all the mess and to get rid of gnats.  The cloner seems to be the best method for me.  My ultimate plan was to use my greenhouse for all my cloners but I have not perfected the controlling of temperatures inside there.  But I will say this, for about 2 years I kept buying Nero 600m cuttings from VS and every one died on me using a variety of methods.  Using the cloner for the first time with moldy cuttings worked for me!  I think the natural air, heat, and warm water had something to do with that....kinda like sticking a cutting in the ground and letting mother nature do the rest.  Well...sorta!

Good luck guys and have fun!
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
How do the cloned plants do transitioning to a less friendly environment? Do you have to be more cautious than with other methods?
snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Kelby, once the cutting has a huge root on it, treat if as if you would any other new cuttings but be gentile and don't press in the soil.  Just add the soiless mix, give a little water and place in a coverred area for about 2 weeks.  Mine are under a huge covered deck.  I also feed mine weak liquid fertilizer and they look amazing.
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Thanks Dennis! Now I have yet another thing to ponder.
jenn42

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Those are still great results Dennis, and i do agree about the cuttings. I get the same gnat problem. Hate those things. Its definitely something to think about. Thank you for bringing up this topic.
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Jenn
Austin, TX Zone 8b

Wish List: CDD, Bryant-Dark Unknown, Red Lebanese, ORoarke, Calvert

Will hopefully have cuttings to trade next year as my yearlings mature
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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
What are you using as a filler for the net cups?

Scott
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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Mahalo, Dennis for sharing this promising idea.  I've had a huge problem out here fighting fungus gnats.  No matter what I do, besides burying the cuttings whole, the darn buggers just have their way.  I do have one question though:  Do you initially root the cuttings THEN place them in the cloner or do you just stick the cuttings into the cloner before any roots appear?
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Chivas

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Scott he is using neoprene inserts which are like a collar around the cutting, he also cuts the bottom off the bottom of the net pot so he doesn't have to pull roots out of the net pot.  Makes the whole thing reusable (I would wash in peroxide between cuttings though) and make the overall cost much cheaper in the long run.
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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chivas
Scott he is using neoprene inserts which are like a collar around the cutting, he also cuts the bottom off the bottom of the net pot so he doesn't have to pull roots out of the net pot.  Makes the whole thing reusable (I would wash in peroxide between cuttings though) and make the overall cost much cheaper in the long run.


I got the modified net cups, I just could not make out what was used as a filler from the pics.  I "assumed" they were neoprene inserts, what I was looking for was a specific name. 
jenn42

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Dennis do you use plain water in the cloner or are you adding anything? I did some research this past weekend and was wondering.

Also, just to be sure, all that is happening is the cuttings are getting sprayed and they are growing roots down into the water reservoir until you pot them right? Forgive my stupidity, but this is only slightly different from starting cuttings in water right?

This is very interesting to me so I just want to be sure. Thanks!
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Jenn
Austin, TX Zone 8b

Wish List: CDD, Bryant-Dark Unknown, Red Lebanese, ORoarke, Calvert

Will hopefully have cuttings to trade next year as my yearlings mature
snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Some how I missed this one!  I use plain water and rapid start.  It comes with the unit.  And every 3 days, I add 5ml of hydrogen perxiode.  the cuttings are not in water, water is sprayed on them to keep them wet and oxygenated (if that's a word).  If the cuttings are kept in the cloner too long or if its a fast rooter, the roots will reach the water.  Fresh cuttings can root and be ready to pot up in 17 days.  Oh yeah and NOT GNATS!!!!
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Dennis
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
So you're using green cuttings?  And 5 ml of 33% peroxide or the regular 3% you get from the store?  That's to the 32 position cloner, right?  You'd need more with the bigger cloner, I'd assume?
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Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
One more question  :)   How long and how thick are the cuttings you're taking?  Thanks.
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Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Dennis, different pumps run at different PSI. Do you know what your pump is rated?

I can build the sprayer head assembly but was wondering at what pressure it maintains.

Different sprinkler heads could be used to get same effect.

Interesting design. I may build a mini.


Doug
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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
This is great Thank you for the info. I have 2 cloners sitting around here forever. One is small and holds like 8 cuts I think, the others is very large. After spending 100's on cuts last year and getting 0 to root I will definitely give this a try this year when I get more cuttings. 
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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Glad you found something that works for you Dennis. I know you must be busy...
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Doug, I have no idea.  I do know the one I built for my Commando 35 has one huge pump!  It has a dial on the front that allows me to control the flow rate.  If you're going to build a tiny one, like a 5 gallon bucket, then I would run the pump only every other 15 mins....otherwise your water will become too hot due to little water to keep the pump cool.  All that hot water coming from the pump will cook your cuttings.  Good luck!
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
Thank you.

This will be a good winter project.

Doug
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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
I really like this idea, especially if rooting in the winter months.  Thanks for linking the vid.  I have a couple questions:

1.  I believe this is the tote from lowes.  Just so I'm understanding this correctly, you manually drilled all the holes in the lid to hold the 2" net cups correct?  What size hole saw blade did you use (this might sound dumb, but I'm wasn't sure of the OD for the inner lip of the cups is actually 2").
2.  From your experience with the 5 gallon paint bucket cloner, excessive heat from the pump can be an issue.  What is your internal temperature with the 27 gallon rig you built?  Could this system be amended to use a non-submersible pump that is housed on the outside of the water reservoir container?  This would eliminate heat issues (also, I already have a non-submersible pump which I use for making compost tea).
3.  Would there be any benefit to adding some small weeping holes in the side to provide extra entry points to promote oxygen exchange with the roots?  I understand you could also lose some humidity this way, but if the pump is continuously cycling....
4.  It's my understanding that fig cutting roots are very fragile.  Would cuttings suffer any root damage when removing them from the neoprene inserts?
5.  When you say your rig is leaking, I'm assuming you mean around the sprinkler head ports, or is it somewhere else?
6.  What is your pump's on/off cycle times?
7.  With a constant humidity at 100% is there a concern about the cuttings rotting?
8.  Since water vapor is being constantly sprayed onto the cuttings is there a concern about FMV contamination from one cutting to another?  I know that the virus' natural vector are mites, but I've read it can also be spread via vegetative propagation.  I'm wondering since these cuttings are not isolated from each other during the rooting process, if there would be a infection control issue.
9.  Finally, what improvements would you do to your cloner if you were going to build a v2?

Thanks. 
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Malcolm - MD - Zone 6B

Varieties growing (Received 2014): Beale, Col de Dame Blanc, Danny's Delight, Desert King, JH Adriatic, Lemon, Longue d'Aout, Marseilles Black VS, Olympian, Ronde de Bordeaux, Strawberry Verte, Vista, UCR-184-15s, Violette de Bordeaux, White King
Dave

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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
It looks like a must have item, This guy got great results with his cloner 
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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Looks like a great idea.  I think I found my next project to do with my kids.  I'm getting ready to order a few things I'll need.  What size submersible pump should I use?  I'm getting the exact storage bin from Lowes - so the size will be the same.  Just need to know how many GPH the pump should be? Thanks
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Tony V. - Western PA, Zone 6a
snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
My unit leak a little because I had too many sprayers and a powerful pump.  I ran mine 24/7.  The hardest part of all the work is making the manifold for the sprayer heads.  You're going to need a tap to tap the holes for your sprayer heads.  A tap and die set is hard to find.  Nowadays, they only sell them in sets of 2.  The young guys at Lowes didn't know what I was talking about when I asked for a tap set!  Go Figure!  They had to google it on their cell!  The old guys came over and took me staight to where they only had 2 in stock!  They told me Lowes got rid of all their tap and die set because they were not selling.  But they are worth their weight in gold for the "do it youselfer"!!!!

Another tip.....get yourself a ratchet PVC cutter.  Yeah, I know they're expensive but the cuts are so clean and perfect!  I paid 25 bucks for mine!  Ladies, tell you husband to make you one.  THey are cheap to make.
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Dennis
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ajv73

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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Dennis, thanks for tips.  What size was your pump that was too powerful? 
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Tony V. - Western PA, Zone 6a
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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
Hey Dennis,

What size tap was that for those micro sprinklers?  1/4"  or was it metric?
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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
I think you can get tap and die sets at harbor freight tools..
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Gloria
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ediblelandscapingsc

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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
Dennis, My question is how well do the plants respond to transplanting into soil/potting mix or are you growing them out hydroponically? Be sure to check out HTG Supply on Freedom Dr. they have a bunch of hydroponic stuff and nutes. They also have Dutch master gold range replicator, a must have rooting gel for hard to root cuttings. Thanks for sharing. 
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GRamaley

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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
Oh they know him well there, if you had mentioned figs they might have given you one of his cards...
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Gloria
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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
Dennis,
I just built and setup an 8 site Bubble Cloner, http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1284197705&postcount=14 similar in operation to an Oxyclone. I placed several green cuttings in the cloner and one cutting is from a Violetta Bayernfeige which has visible FMV/FMD symptoms, all other cuttings are from non FMD symptomatic NYC and tissue Cultured trees, a question came to mind.

If one or more cuttings are from trees that have FMV, can Fig Mosaic Virus be transmitted to cuttings that have an active vascular system? Can the virus survive in the clone solution? I don't expect an answer, its just an interesting question that I may need to research, since I'm starting a Hydroponic Heat Therotherapy Virus elimination project, .
snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
Sorry guys, I've very busy at work and home with my trees. I'm also doing a lot of prep work for my self watering pots this Fall which will be here in 6 weeks. Got 20 55g food grade barrels. Just finished measuring, marking, cutting, and washing them. Talk about work! Whew!

Tony, I don't remember the pump size. I do know that I got 4 pumps each for the different sizes. Google EZ Clone 32 and EZ Clone 64 and see what size pump they have listed.

James, get the 3 pack from lowes with 1/4, 1/8, and 1/16. I tried to use a screw as a tap and it did not work. The tap worked flawlessly. Harbor Freight has the tap and die set too.

EL, Gloria is right! I am a repeat customer at my HiTech Garden Supply. I get a lot of free stuff there. They love my Drunken Fig Jam.

Pete, yes, the FMV will get transferred. Don't worry about FMV. Once your cutting is potted up and growing just give the tree pure Nitro every 3 years. Pete I like the bubbler idea. You're going to have to keep an eye on the water level. And try your setup without the peat pots. Your might start getting gnats. Great job!
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
Dennis,
Thanks for the reply.
The cuttings are being rooted 100% Hydro, there is no substrate, they're just hanging down below the foam insert in the 2-inch cut net pot, just like your cuttings in the Aeroponic Cloners. The difference is that the bottom of the cutting is about 1" below the surface of the water.
BubbleCloner&FigCuttings1_9-6-14.jpg BubbleCloner&FigCuttings_9-6-14.jpg .

Good Luck with the SIP builds, I still have to build about 30 from 30 gallon barrels.
snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #41 
Oh, ok. That should work verry well.
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #42 
Heavens to Murgatroyd, that looks easy and quick.

Thanks for sharing your methods guys.
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ATL, GA, Zone 7b In ground varieties (22):Osborne Prolific, Conadria, Petit Negri, O'Rourke, Hardy Chicago, Texas BA-1, Alma, Celeste, Kadota, Green Ischia, Brown Turkey, Black Mission, Violette de Bordeaux, Texas Everbearing, Magnolia/Brunswick, LSU Purple, Dark Portuguese, Black Greek, Ronde de Bordeaux, Champagne, Dark Portuguese, Hybrid 0023. 
Rooting: Excel, 187-25, 291-4, 143-36, Cole de Dame, Calvert, Vernino, Santa Cruz Dark, Pastilliere, St. Jean, Barnisotte, Native de Argentile, VdB, Osborne Prolific.
ascpete

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Posted Reply with quote  #43 
Dennis,
Its 21 days since the cuttings were placed in the Bubble Cloner and all have rooted. Their roots are currently growing. All the leaves are still green and healthy.  I have not maintained a steady warm temperature in the solution, which would account for the longer rooting time. The long cutting on the right in the picture was a broken branch that was stuck in the cloner recently...
Thanks again for sharing this method.
DIY_BubbleCloner&FigCuttings2_9-27-14.jpg DIY_BubbleCloner&FigCuttings_9-27-14.jpg .
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Posted Reply with quote  #44 
Pete, is that Gynura in the cloner next to the figs? I have this plant, supposed to be good for diabetes.

Mike in Hanover, VA
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Posted Reply with quote  #45 
Mike,
Yes. It produced roots in 3 days from cuttings.
Tomato suckers also started to grow roots in 3 days.
DIY_BubbleCloner&GynuraCuttings2_9-27-14.jpg DIY_BubbleCloner&GynuraCuttings3_9-27-14.jpg .

BTW, fresh cuttings are placed in clean spring water with no additives and the water is changed every 7 days. Once roots form a balanced Hydroponic fertilizer is added to form a nutrient solution at 1/4 recommended strength. With multiple DIY Shoebox Cloners the cuttings can be easily moved from plain water to nutrient solution once they've rooted.
Gofigure

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Posted Reply with quote  #46 
I'm about 2 weeks into this experiment. Thought these were just lenticels, but appear to be roots.

Hard water from very deep well, outside all the time, no heating, cap full of hydrogen peroxide every 3 or 4 days, Scrap foam on top to hold cutting and tight fit to air hose has meant no need to add any water during this time. Standard small air pump and small stone. Tip barely submerged but there is much splashing from the bubbles. No sign of rot, bugs, or musty smell inside.

Cutting was taken from Brown Turkey and immediately put in water, no hormone, nothing besides hyd peroxide added to water. Stripped all but two leaves.
IMG_1432.jpg  IMG_1431.jpg 
IMG_1436.jpg

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ATL, GA, Zone 7b In ground varieties (22):Osborne Prolific, Conadria, Petit Negri, O'Rourke, Hardy Chicago, Texas BA-1, Alma, Celeste, Kadota, Green Ischia, Brown Turkey, Black Mission, Violette de Bordeaux, Texas Everbearing, Magnolia/Brunswick, LSU Purple, Dark Portuguese, Black Greek, Ronde de Bordeaux, Champagne, Dark Portuguese, Hybrid 0023. 
Rooting: Excel, 187-25, 291-4, 143-36, Cole de Dame, Calvert, Vernino, Santa Cruz Dark, Pastilliere, St. Jean, Barnisotte, Native de Argentile, VdB, Osborne Prolific.
snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #47 
With the weather getting cooler by the day, the time as come for me to fire up my propagator again!  For those who have not tried this method, it really is simple.  Just don't try using the 5g bucket system for figs.  We tested it at the hydroponic store and every cutting failed.  The water was just too warm for the cuttings.  We even tried running the pump 15 mins on and 15 mins off and the water was still too warm.  But, the beauty of this system is.....NO GNATS!  You can have little trees potted up in 20 days more or less depending on the cuttings.

Hey Pete, how did your cuttings turn out in the fogger?
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #48 
Snaglpus totally inspired me. Thanks again!!
! photo 1 (32).JPG  photo 2 (32).JPG 

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Gloria
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #49 
Way to go Gloria!  I was amazed how tough the roots were after being in mine for 30 days!  This method is definitely my way of rooting cuttings.  

Nice job!
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Dennis
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Posted Reply with quote  #50 
What's the trick with the cuttings. I have a system bout ten gal I never used cause the bucket failed with the figs. Was just thinking of scraping it for a larger pot.
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