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Charlie

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 

Put this together on 7/20/14.  Goal was a simple and cheap way to make any size pot if all one has is wire cloth, zip ties and needs a pot!.  A cylinder within a cylinder, the inner being a few inches shorter than the outer...   

wirepot_3.jpg 

This fig tree was labeled as Desert King from Florida Hill Nursery but has already been pointed out here as mis-labeled and possibly VdB.  The potting mix I'm using for all trees is 1:1:1 of generic potting soil, pine bark fines and washed, coarse perlite.  Some peletized calcium, crushed oyster shell and two hands-full of TGA Super Soil per five gallons total mix added in.  Tree also potted on 7/20/14.

wirepot_4.jpg 

Then the space between cylinders is filled with pine bark fines and the top level up near to the outer cylinder which gives a good mulch cover all around...

wirepot_5.jpg 

We have been blessed with weekly and bi-weekly rains so none of my trees except one have been hurting for water and this one has shown no signs of drying out or other stress.  Pic taken a couple hours ago.  It's actually doing better than most others of the same age in different conventional plastic pots/pails, except for LSU Tiger and Purple which had some days of a head start...

Figs_84.jpg 

Back there to the left a bit is a single rectangular wire cylinder with Lattarula.  Not doing as well as our bark wrapped double wall pot and has needed a bit of watering.

Plan on un-wrapping this tree after it goes dormant to examine the root structure and just get an overall idea of how this pot did.  It's actually just a small trial model of the larger ones I vision for later on, carrying into the horizontal thought of the Fig Doodle thread. 




 

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Savage270

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
I like your craftsmanship. They look perfectly measured and put together. What's your idea behind a second outer cage for the pine bark? Is it to prevent drying and to keep it cooler? Do you plan to remove the outer cage and root prune using the inner cage as a guide and then add more mulch next season? I'm very curious about this project; I'm very interested in your idea and thought process.
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David, North GA, zone 7b Growing figs since May 2014. Wish List: Cuttings: Kesariani, Battaglia Green, Col de Dama Rimada, Col de Dame Noir 
DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
I like it!  Good job!

Suzi
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Charlie

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savage270
I'm very interested in your idea and thought process.


Me too.  When I figure it out will let you know haha!

Just kidding, sort of!  Thanks for the other comments as well.  My thought process, that's a tough one.  I just told a fella the other day on the phone, "I don't know, it's weird, like I'm being prompted to do this stuff.  Buy all these different fig trees, make all these different pots, order more trees.  I'm not even sure I will like figs...

Now here's the ideas... Yes I thought the surrounding with bark mulch would insulate and hold moisture. 

I like Superoots Air-Pot function but they are expensive, especially getting into the larger sizes so why not wire cloth or chicken wire?  I have a bunch of it.

I have a high water table so am going to have to go upwards some.  The Fig Doodle thread talks about that.  In theory, if a small, few gallon design works well, a larger one would also in my thinking.  A smaller version should dry out quicker and so far it has not been an issue but we have plenty of rain.  

If the concept "large" wire pot were in contact with the ground and a tree planted horizontal like in the Fig Doodle, some roots could easily access the water table and others remain above in the well drained area.   

Everything I do has to be neat looking to keep wife and neighbors happy and inexpensive to be feasible for me.  Doesn't have to be wire but it has to look good.  I just happen to have wire and think this looks good enough as would a larger version.  May make some of stacked brick or some other something as we go.  I'm just as curious as anybody how this will all end up or what the purpose of it is. 

So far it's been fun and I have learned a lot.  I'll not begin to worry unless the trees start talking back to me. :)


  
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Charlie

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDance
I like it!  Good job!

Suzi


Thanks Suzi :)
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waynea

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Well Charlie, all I can say is that you come up with the most creative ideas. Keep us informed of your next venture.
Charlie

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by waynea
Well Charlie, all I can say is that you come up with the most creative ideas. Keep us informed of your next venture.


Think I will stick to ideas that manage my own affairs from now on thanks. :)
 
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twovkay

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Charlie, nice project. I found air-pots locally for what I think as not a bad price. The .3 gallon are going for $2.50 each, planning on using it as an airlayer pot after some small modifications next year.

As far as maybe not liking figs? Wait till you taste one of your own! You will be forever hooked. And if that one isn't so great there a few more (thousand) varieties you can chose from. LOL
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Charlie

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by twovkay
Charlie, nice project. I found air-pots locally for what I think as not a bad price. The .3 gallon are going for $2.50 each, planning on using it as an airlayer pot after some small modifications next year. As far as maybe not liking figs? Wait till you taste one of your own! You will be forever hooked. And if that one isn't so great there a few more (thousand) varieties you can chose from. LOL


I think with what I have and outstanding orders there are 20 or 21 varieties I have or are in transit or waiting for shipping.  

That air-pot air layer thread is outstanding.  I don't blame you!
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Charlie

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
When you start thinking of the amount of materials it will take to fill the pots I have an idea of, well it will not be cheap so I have been thinking a lot and gathering resources!  Our town has a yellow pine sawmill so pine bark is not an issue.  The local landfill makes and sells "yard waste" compost by the truck or trailer load for $10 so no issue there.  Manures and/or composts of them are not much of an issue since I live in the rural and there's a lot of farms. Have pretty much everything except what might be a suitable substitute for coarse perlite.

Ultimately, most all my trees will be in-ground and covered in winter.  Some varieties will likely not be kept...unless we build a greenhouse.  I don't see myself carting pots in and out of the already loaded garage and certainly am not going to have any success getting wife to park outside. :) 
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DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Root pruning AKA air pruning pots are kinda new, and some old folks will NEVER get how good they are, so ya just have to move on!  I love your concept with the inner and the outer mulch.  Amazing! 

Funny, I'm old.  A grandma.  But I try to keep up so my brain don't go dead, ya know?

We had figs and grapevines planted in pots at the last place.  Those in pots circled and got root bound, but those in the air pruning bags had so many roots and growth, the difference was huge!

If I couldn't put everything in ground like I now can, I'd be making JD imitate your invention!

Suzi
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Charlie

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Suzi I'm a grandpa twice.  You don't get old until you stop having fun.  Guess I will never get old!  
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Charlie

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
The wire cage pots will also keep moles away from the root zone.  
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DesertDance

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Got you beat by 11!  Still, I really like your invention!  Figs never call wanting money or asking if they can move in............  Go Figs!!
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Zone 9b, Southern California. "First year they sleep, Second year they creep, Third year they leap!"  Wish List:  I wish all of you happy fig collecting!  My wishes have been fulfilled!
Charlie

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDance
Got you beat by 11!  Still, I really like your invention!  Figs never call wanting money or asking if they can move in............  Go Figs!!


Yes but figs are kinda like grandkids in that I have a feeling more are on the way lol
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Yeehova

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
This is a great setup Charlie. It seems that more air equals better roots.
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Brian
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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Looks good. How do you check to see if it needs water with all that mulch around it? The larger of mine in the bag is going through a gallon of water a day now. I missed a day watering it and it started to look stressed, kind of a pre-wilt droopyness. It still had water in the sip but apparently has trouble sucking it through the wicks when the level gets down. Perked right up when I watered it. and didn't drop any figs. The plant is looking lush. It wants to do the beanstalk trick but I keep pinching the tips. The figs have been in the stagnant phase for about a century now, You'd think suck a healthy plant could push up the production schedule a little.

Anyway, keep us posted. Can't wait to see what you come up with next.
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Charlie

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by greysmith
Looks good. How do you check to see if it needs water with all that mulch around it? The larger of mine in the bag is going through a gallon of water a day now. I missed a day watering it and it started to look stressed, kind of a pre-wilt droopyness. It still had water in the sip but apparently has trouble sucking it through the wicks when the level gets down. Perked right up when I watered it. and didn't drop any figs. The plant is looking lush. It wants to do the beanstalk trick but I keep pinching the tips. The figs have been in the stagnant phase for about a century now, You'd think suck a healthy plant could push up the production schedule a little.

Anyway, keep us posted. Can't wait to see what you come up with next.


I poke a finger down through the bark to feel the rooting mix.  It's always moist and quite cooler than the mix in black plastic pots.  I don't know if that is necessarily a good or bad thing, just an observation at this point.  The only plant I have notice any leaf wilting is Lattarula in that single wall wire pot so I water it every other day or so unless it rains.

Figure when all these trees really get some leaves and start a lot of growing then watering will become a regular issue until they go on ground.
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drphil69

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
I love that idea!  Keep it up Charlie!
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Grasa

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Laborious skills to make those pots. Knowing what I know of how they grow, I will share this with you. You will find that the roots will not stay in the inner circle and will get through the mesh, and you may end up with struggling roots. I would watch them carefully. I guess it would make it easiler for root pruning, is that your ultimate goal?

When I put my trees in  gallon I put about an inch  regular wood chips that have aged at the bottom, you would not believe but the fig trees grow into them and coil themselves on them. When I move them to larger pots all the wood chips is emeshed in their root system, in larger pots, I put 2 inches or so at the bottom, it helps with drainage and the trees seem to like them.
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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
If you are trying to control moisture loss with the outer ring and pine bark,
a simpler solution is to wrap your inner pot with breathable fabric, like weed block
or similar material.
This will keep the roots in your smaller container, control moisture loss,
and prevent the roots from growing into the outer ring, which you do not need.
Turn it into another container/pot.
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Rob

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
Charlie,

I like the wire pot idea but agree with Hungryjack that the outer pot isn't necessary.  I don't think it will hurt anything, just adds weight/complexity/work where it's not required.  Just put it in the larger wire pot to begin with, using whatever mix you are using.

Wondering what kind of wire you are using, and how much it costs.  I did a little math to see the cost per pot of larger versions of those things, using a couple different kinds of material.  First off I tried 1/4 inch hardware cloth.  To make a 25 gallon container would cost about $10 per container, not including labor costs.  This looks much more heavy duty than what you used and is probably overkill for this type of project.  This is the what I used to come up with the costs:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-1-4-in-x-2-ft-x-25-ft-Hardware-Cloth-308212HD/204331878?N=5yc1vZc3lp

To make the same container using much lighter aluminum screen (at least wouldn't have to worry about rust, tetanus), I used the following.  This material, on the other hand, seems like it might not stand up to the weight, etc, and animals could probably chew through it.  But it's much cheaper, figure about $3.00 per 25 gallon pot: 
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Phifer-36-in-x-100-ft-Brite-Aluminum-Screen-3000031/100614699?MERCH=RV-_-RV_nav_plp_rr-2-_-NA-_-100614699-_-N

So I would like to hear what you used how the cost/durability compares to these two examples. 

I can order a 20 gallon fabric pot online for less than $10, but sometimes animals do chew through the fabric.  Not hard to patch them up though.  My concern with these pots you have made would be rust (if iron/steel), personal injury (jagged edges), time/hassle spent putting them together, and depending on construction, possibly toxic metals leaching into pots/soil.  Just trying to figure the best solution for large fabric/air pots. 


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Rob
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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Charlie,

You have really nice ideas! My wife is like yours, everything should look nice or my days are miserable :)

Rob,
The necessity of the outer pot/layer depends on how hot it is in the area. I would gladly add it to each of my pots. Without any shielding the temperature in the dark pots go up to 60C / 140F. Basically, the roots are cooked .

I agree with Grasa about the roots. i also add the bark chips and it is impossible to remove them during the uppotting. I would keep the bark but add what Jack said.
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Charlie

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Here's the deal but first let me say I appreciate all the advice.  I don't have a lot of money and basically have to scrounge and salvage.  Have spent close to $200 just buying these trees.  I had the wire cloth and needed a pot lol.  It's 1/4 inch galvanized.  Probably not good.  I'm planning on re-potting all trees this dormant season.  What they are in now will have to do until then unless something else comes along.  
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james

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Many years ago when Air Pots were first introduced in this country, I talked to the first distributor.  He was recommending a pot in pot situation to prevent excessive drying out in the nurseries.  There is however an issue I've encountered many times when top mulching my containers (which is why I avoid it now).  I think the roots seek out the path of least resistance and tend to grow into the mulch layer.  The mulch layer dries out much more quickly than most growing mixes which can cause a potted tree in the hot sun to dry out quickly.  I think there is a chance this problem would be worsened in the cage since the roots will grow through the mulch layer to the air.  Once pruned, the roots will branch behind the dead tip.  So most of your feeder roots will be growing in the mulch instead of the growing mix.

Von, I described using the Airpots for creating airlayers here.  It is my preferred method.  I used a hole saw to cut tops and bottoms out of 5 gallon buckets.
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2016 Wish List:  Dārk Pōrtuguese, Grānthāms Royāl, Lātarolla, Negrettā, Nōire de Bārbentāne, Rockāway Green, Viōlet Sepōr, Viōlette Dāuphine.  Iranian figs are always welcome.
Charlie

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Noticed just in the last few days the green fading on this wire pot mislabeled tree, probably VdB...

Figs_137.jpg 

So I'm standing there looking at this tree when I see an ant, then another and another.  They scaled the brick to nest in this nice bunch of bark!  I doused the whole thing with a gallon of permethrin mix, They came out by the thousands all around the wire.  After they started to fall off I flushed with fresh water, then gave it a gallon of water with a handful of garden lime.  Figured ants are acidic.  Inspected all other pots and no sign of any ants in them.  
 

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