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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
So, I have started thinking about grafting but I want to take it to another level at the same time.

Here's my Big Question: Does chosen Root Stock characteristics effect the Graft's -

-Quality
-Taste
-Size
-Appearance
-Growth Habits
-Ripening times
Grasa

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Aaron, I posted a link before of this guy in Australia, or is it N. Zeland that is doing for 40 years...so, he already have done all the tests.... would be nice to not have to reinvent them all.

So far, I am really impressed with my own results, but like everything else.. only time will tell for sure what it really does, and again, weather is a big component.
It is often done to renew the plant that is over ten years old... which is past time for me to do with mine...  which will be done shortly here.
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pino

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Grasa,
Can you post the link of the results of the guy down under who has been grafting for 40 years?

I would think grafting can be a huge benefit depending on the desired results, the vigour and disease resistance of the rootstock. 
I can see it benefiting the figs growth rates, fig taste and size, disease resistance as far as root bound diseases and other things.  
This is based on grafting I have done or seen with grapes and fruit trees.
 
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Elfarach

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Aaron, you thinking of doing it any time soon?

Can figs be grafted in dormancy?
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Simon, for us here in LA, It's still a good time, grafting needs a week or two to heal, (I think...) and not more.
drphil69

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Grafting certainly should impact vigor.  Its the rootstock that determines whether a tree is dwarf, semi-dwarf or regular, for pretty much every fruit tree.  I can't imagine it would be any different for figs.
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Grasa

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Here are the links.

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/i-reinvented-the-wheel-of-grafting-7099560?pid=1284471378#post1284471378
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pino

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Thanks for the link Grasa.

Aaron,
For me it is hard to see how you can graft successfully this time of year?  
Up north here yonder for grafts to be successful;
- the scion (bud) needs to be fully developed and dormant,
- the root stock needs to be starting to grow. 
Best time to graft here is from when trees are breaking dormancy in spring (after chance of frost for tender plants) and to June for plants (nuts) that need extra heat to callous properly.
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Joe,
I'll definitely wait for spring, I don't want to start something that's doomed to fail.
I just had done one few days ago because I was desperate to save a precious cutting that kept rotting from the bottom up.

In the pic bellow, the scion is the brown 2inch cutting (Orphan) that I grafted on the John's Market Capri.

20141024_172130.jpg 
pino

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Aaron
Is that graft in a container? 
If so you can bring it into a controlled environment (sun room, greenhouse) to improve its chances of survival this time of year.
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Yes Joe, it is.

20141024_172848.jpg 
pino

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
OK so you should have some options.  Good luck with it! 


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Gofigure

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
I'd be concerned that the leaves transpiration may desiccate the cutting before the cambium connection is fully established. 

You might also try bud grafting.

I've requested some persimmon cuttings along with last years request for fig cuttings. I'll try to root the natives and graft the asians. 
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Rooting: Excel, 187-25, 291-4, 143-36, Cole de Dame, Calvert, Vernino, Santa Cruz Dark, Pastilliere, St. Jean, Barnisotte, Native de Argentile, VdB, Osborne Prolific.
pitangadiego

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Not addressing figs, per se: rootstocks and interstem material does have some affect on the graft material. Some are chosen for the vigor and disease resistance on the roots, others for their ability to dwarf or retard growth of the scion. Not all things are compatible. I have heard of experiences with citrus, for example, when the grafted tree grows fine for about 10 years, and then falls off. Apparently there is a certain amount of incompatibility (rejection) between any given rootstock and scion, and if it is too great, it eventually fails.

Don't know that there is any or much study material on fig compatibility when grafting. Things that are used in commercial orchards have much more study and mush more history on which to judge things. So plums and oranges, apricots and apples, peaches and grapes have mush more info available when it comes time to trial as new variety.

When grafting apples, for instance, is is interesting on a multi-grafted tree to see how the various varieties perform, when all on the same rootstock. Some are more vigorous, some less. The ones that break dormancy first, draw the most sap and will delay bud break and/or suppress other varieties.

A European pear grafted on top of an Asian pear can suppress the Asian pear and delay flowering till late in the summer. Interestingly, when the European pear is grafted on top of the Asian pear, it will break dormancy much earlier, and the sap will flow between the rootstock and the E pear, even tho0ugh the A pear is dormant.

You will have to experiment.
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Grasa

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
I read that in Brazil, after ten years, the trees are mostly chopped up to renew, as production starts to decline from that point on. However, I never find anything about grafting experiments.. if was done, it is a secret kept under seven key locks.
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
this is what intrigues me...

Now imagine this;

Grafting VdB on BM or visa versa. Would the result be a suicidal deliciousness of a dark fig?
            Calimirna on Kalamata or visa versa. Would the result be an phenomenal tasting white fig?  
            Sultane on Figo Preto or visa versa. Would the result be a fig worthy of true KINGS?

or how about... Grafting Grose Monsrueous de Lipari on John's Market Capri. Would the result be half a pound of Fig?

*John's Market Capri is a humongous fig

here's the pic...

20140517_234754.jpg 




Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Steve,
only yesterday, I watched a great video posted by Francisco (lampo) about grafting.
In there , there was a part where a master grafter talked about how, sometimes, it is beneficial to leave the fresh young top growth of the host root stock and keep the flow going from roots to the tip so the graft can have better chance to take.
I had seen some videos about it long time ago and it just came to me last minute NOT to cut the top of the host root stock.
I am glad I didn't.  
I guess we'll see how it goes altogether in 2 weeks :)

Edit:
forward the Video to 57:45 to hear him say what I mentioned about Not Clipping the rootstock top..
armando93223

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Very interesting my friend. You left the top of the rootstock on. Maybe I will learn something from you. I am learning a lot.  My recent grafting project, "Christmas Tree", lost most of my grafts. I suspect the rootstock was weak. It was a big airlayer and I should of waited until I had a massive amount of roots.  So since this year has been my first year of grafting, I believe a healthy strong rootstock is a major key........I will keep an eye out for your progress.
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Armando,
I am also curious about this one, since it is my first ever graft on figs. 
Lets wait a bit to see how this ends:)
Vladis

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Аарон, обычно всё хорошо получается. Мои привитые инжиры в 2013, март. Инж.Панч.Окт.26.Пр..jpg 

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Vladis

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Привитый опылитель. Инж.Опылит.Окт.26..jpg 

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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #22  
Владик ,вероятно, было бы лучше, если бы вы могли увеличить на привитым части , а не всего дерева .
Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Vladik,
it would probably be better if you could zoom in on the grafted part , rather than the entire tree.
Gofigure

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
I didn't look closely enough at your photo. I thought you had cut the top off the root stock and left the leaves on the scion.

Nice video. 
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Rooting: Excel, 187-25, 291-4, 143-36, Cole de Dame, Calvert, Vernino, Santa Cruz Dark, Pastilliere, St. Jean, Barnisotte, Native de Argentile, VdB, Osborne Prolific.
Vladis

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Аарон, вот фото  прививания Panachee на дикий инжир. Инж.Панч .Прив.Окт.26..jpg 

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Vladis

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Аарон ,это прививание опылителя на дикий инжир. Инж.Прив.Опылит..jpg 

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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladis
Аарон ,это прививание опылителя на дикий инжир. Инж.Прив.Опылит..jpg [/QUOTE) есть дыра над красной стрелкой . Разве этоне удалось бутон прививка ?
Vladis

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
Аарон, на фото в сообщении 21 Вы можете видеть привитые ветви с листьями ( привой). Дефекты после прививания иногда остаются на растениях , что не мешает общему развитию привоя. Я удачно прививаю у себя в саду хурму , персик ,черешню. Планирую  в следующие сезоны прививание азимины трилоба  ,фейхоа.
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
Владик, 
Похоже, что вы стали экспертом со своими экспериментальными навыками прививки, я вас поздравляю :)
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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Аарон, у меня пока низкий процент успешных прививаний. Чтобы получить желаемый результат я делаю прививаний в 3 раза больше, чем нужно. Инж.Прив.20 Мая..jpg 

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pino

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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Vladis
You seem to do a lot of grafting!  Are you top working your trees for select varieties?  Do you have any preferred rootstock?
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Vladis

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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
Сильно рослые, мощные растения для подвоя использовать лучше ,если делать прививание для растений растущих в земле. Мне нравится прививание на дикий инжир. Он вырастает спонтанно на участке, при участии птиц.
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pino

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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Grazie mille Vladis!

Aaron can you translate?
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GregMartin

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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
Pino, you can paste into google translate.  Here was Vladis' last post:

 
Strong tall , powerful plants for rootstock use better if done for grafting plants growing in the ground. I like grafting on wild figs . It grows spontaneously in the area , with the participation of the birds.
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
Another Question:

Hypothetically, lets say I grafted Fig "A" on Fig "B" and the result was what I wanted and calling it a Fig "AB1".
If I take an air layer from the "AB1" part what would the air layered Fig be, "AB1", "A" or "B"?
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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
This would be interesting for us northern growers that don't have a long enough summer for some figs. For example ... would grafting a late season fig such as black madeira or pastilliere onto Florea rootstock make those figs ripen sooner than they normally would on their own?? Would that trait of the rootstock translate into the grafted variety?

Tyler
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pino

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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
The rootstock can provide more vigour, disease resistance tolerance for wet ...

But it is not going to change the scion in any other way.   A Black Madeira grafted on any rootstock is still a Black Madeira but may behave a little different.
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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
Yeah that's what I figured but thought I would throw it out there. Thanks Joe.
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Aaron4USA

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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
Joe,
have you done grafting to improve a production or alter the fruit in any way in past?

I am still curious to what refers to my Post #35 
pino

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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron4USA
Another Question:

Hypothetically, lets say I grafted Fig "A" on Fig "B" and the result was what I wanted and calling it a Fig "AB1".
If I take an air layer from the "AB1" part what would the air layered Fig be, "AB1", "A" or "B"?


Aaron,
I have never grafted figs.  I may try in the future for the fun of it. 
In the past I have grafted many grapes and different fruit trees. 
Plant A grafted on Plant B = a CLONE of the original plant A.  No genetic differences.  This is one of the major reasons to graft since seedlings seldom come true.

An example of the differences I have observed;

Cabernet Franc grafted on (SO4 or C3309) rootstock grows very vigorous and produces bigger healthier grape bunches and bigger berries.  It still ripens at the same time as cab franc on its own roots.  Although all other factors being equal the healthier the plant the earlier it will ripen.

Cabernet Franc on its own roots grows as a much smaller plant, smaller berries.  Still ripens at the same time.  After a few years it will die because vinifera grapes on their own roots are susceptible to phyloxera which is a root disease wide spread in North America. 

I have also grafted apples, plums, cherries ... the resulting plant has always been an exact clone of the original scion plant. 

 
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