Deep Water Culture for fig cuttings

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Woknblues

Registered:1414833570
Posts: 25

Posted 1416285278	Reply with quote #1

Hi folks, I have a small cloning box I made for tomatoes and peppers and other summer veggie garden stuff in a DWC (deep water culture/hydroponic) style, with air-stones and an aquarium pump. It works absolutely amazing for veggies. My usual routine is to buy a healthy sucker filled tomato plant and then cut off a dozen or so clones from them and get those up and running. I think I saw somewhere in the past few weeks on youtube where someone had done this with good effect on fig cuttings, and even roses and other hardwood, but I can't find it again. Essentially, It's a small rubbermaid with some air stones in it that you punch holes in (or float a styro raft on), and submerge your ends into the water, keeping it in the hole with some foam tubing and in a week or so, tons of rooted cuttings. I run a small led light set up over top to keep them "fed", but actually it's just another rubbermaid with self cooling LED down lights, lined with a space blanket. I have a small aquarium heater in the water to stay a few degrees above ambient. Can anyone comment? Not sure why this wouldn't work amazing for figs. If I can fully root in a week or two, I guess I can start a bit later on the majority of my cuttings since I really don't have the space for massive vegetable and fig tree growth in my house. Anyone not familiar with the principle, it's just adding lots of O2 and appropriate temperature to the rooting area. My plan is to then transplant into a SWC in the Spring. __________________ Zone 7b Albuquerque

Woknblues

Registered:1414833570
Posts: 25

Posted 1416336171	Reply with quote #2

Just a polite single bump. Maybe not a good idea? __________________ Zone 7b Albuquerque

FMD

Registered:1309800590
Posts: 1,327

Posted 1416338589 · Edited	Reply with quote #3

WoknbluesWoknblues, there are several threads on rooting figs in bubllers, hydroponic cloners, etc. The reviews have been mixed. Please do a forum search for details. My own personal experience with a DIY bucket cloner was abysmal. __________________ Frank Tallahassee, FL Zone 8b North Florida Figs

jc_figs

Registered:1416095240
Posts: 351

Posted 1416346212	Reply with quote #4

it should if u can keep them from roting __________________ Name JAILEN feel free to call me jc ........wish list...... black madeira ,ischia b lack, green ischia, patrics super giant, rdv, negronne, maltese falcon, lsu gold, lsu purple, lsu tiger, lounge d out, golden, celeste, black jack, black mission, brunswick, blue ischia, panache, strawberry latte, armenian, mvsb, col de dame, col de dame grise, col de dame noir, hardy chicago, peters honey, peti negri, unknowns, magnolia, kathleen black, labanese, and any othere except bt, and celeste improved bt or celeste are fine ,cuttings/plants zone 8a goldsboro north carolina. I'm proved Celeste or BT welcome!! figs growing brown turkey celeste and unknown yellow fig

GreenFin

Registered:1331268315
Posts: 684

Posted 1416346949 · Edited	Reply with quote #5

I've done something similar by putting cuttings directly into an aquaponics grow bed. I think something like 9/10 of them rooted for me that way (all except Black Madeira, sadly enough). Here's a thread on it: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/starting-cuttings-in-my-aquaponics-growbed-6772919?pid=1281691855#post1281691855 If you're keeping them warm and supplied with plenty of oxygen, and if you go light on the fertilizer, you'll probably get most or all to root. They'll probably break some roots and be stressed when you move them, but planting them in swc's will help them to quickly recover, imo. My cuttings were a little slow to take hold after I transplanted them into the ground (both outdoors and in a greenhouse), but they all soon took off. __________________ James, zone 6a Kansas (zone 10 greenhouses); wish list is in my profile http://www.FigCuttings.com

Chivas

Registered:1283819505
Posts: 1,675

Posted 1416356298	Reply with quote #6

Try it and find out, in theory it should work though. __________________ Canada Zone 6B

Dave

Registered:1312388324
Posts: 1,482

Posted 1416357827	Reply with quote #7

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/clone-your-cuttings-never-see-gnats-7023364?highlight=never+see+gnats&pid=1285058199#post1285058199 __________________ Connecticut - Zone 6B Wish List - Bordissot negra rimada

drphil69

Registered:1390113240
Posts: 803

Posted 1416364943	Reply with quote #8

WorknBlues, any pics of your setup? Please? I did see a post with amazing roots on the other forum, but I am not sure it is "deep-water." __________________ Phil - Zone 7A - Newark, DE Newbie fig lover just trying to learn.

Woknblues

Registered:1414833570
Posts: 25

Posted 1416368155	Reply with quote #9

Just a small fish aquarium pump some silicone tubing and a couple of air stones. Takes 15 minutes to build Cost was around $25 dollars if you have the bin already. You could also use a bucket or even some cheap type of tupperware container. I put some paper towels to pick up the little bit of condensation. How warm should I make the water? I am sitting at around +3 ambient (around 73) with the submersible heater. Also, I usually don't use nutrients. Any recommendations? I will go ahead and clone up half of my cuttings around January then. I don't have the space to deal with 20 small trees in the house over winter. The wife is already rolling her eyes since she is not used to seeing the cloner out unless it is spring/summer veggies. __________________ Zone 7b Albuquerque

Woknblues

Registered:1414833570
Posts: 25

Posted 1416368627	Reply with quote #10

Quote: Originally Posted by Dave http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/clone-your-cuttings-never-see-gnats-7023364?highlight=never+see+gnats&pid=1285058199#post1285058199 I passed on the aeroponic design mostly because the building of the manifold was more involved than I like to get and that submersible pumps are more expensive (relative to the air pumps) I saw a "fog" type cloner that uses the atomizer/mist type unit that had good looking results too. That appeared to be even easier to build. All you do is drop a fogger unit into the bucket/tote. Done. All I know is, no rot with veggies and plenty of green growth as well, considering no nutrients added. __________________ Zone 7b Albuquerque

rafaelissimmo

Registered:1335639347
Posts: 1,473

Posted 1416368791	Reply with quote #11

Make sure not to dip the cuttings too deep or they will rot. 73 F is theoretically good but some varieties of fig sre just slow to root in water or may not root at all. Many though will root just fine. 78 F is better. Make sure you have a real good transition system set up or they will die immediately as they for me last year. You must transition the cuttings in a humid, warmER environment, and in a proper media, I suggest inert media, I use a mixture of Peat and Perlite with great success. __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

Woknblues

Registered:1414833570
Posts: 25

Posted 1416369067	Reply with quote #12

Any idea on ideal ph for figgies? __________________ Zone 7b Albuquerque

GreenFin

Registered:1331268315
Posts: 684

Posted 1416369837	Reply with quote #13

I'd guess 80-85F as ideal temp, and around 7 as ideal pH. I root and grow mine in an aquaponics system with a pH of 8, figs are one of the plants that can thrive in a relatively high pH like that. __________________ James, zone 6a Kansas (zone 10 greenhouses); wish list is in my profile http://www.FigCuttings.com

drphil69

Registered:1390113240
Posts: 803

Posted 1416376649	Reply with quote #14

Thanks for the pics! __________________ Phil - Zone 7A - Newark, DE Newbie fig lover just trying to learn.

rcantor

Registered:1309799312
Posts: 5,727

Posted 1416378223	Reply with quote #15

I was told by one hydroponics store that green wood works better than hardened wood but I don't have any personal experience. __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

Woknblues

Registered:1414833570
Posts: 25

Posted 1416380695	Reply with quote #16

Quote: Originally Posted by rafaelissimmo Make sure not to dip the cuttings too deep or they will rot. 73 F is theoretically good but some varieties of fig sre just slow to root in water or may not root at all. Many though will root just fine. 78 F is better. Make sure you have a real good transition system set up or they will die immediately as they for me last year. You must transition the cuttings in a humid, warmER environment, and in a proper media, I suggest inert media, I use a mixture of Peat and Perlite with great success. rafaelissimmo, I was actually planning to submerge them. You think I ought to have the ends right above the water line? I can get to 78 no problem with the light hood. I have perlite, vermiculite or peat at the ready when the time comes, probably perlite with a bit of peat to drop the alkaline soil and water around here. That big old yellow clone box looks pretty sweet, if not a bit big for my taste, but the principle is sound. I might pick up a small fogger to drop in just to get the whole effect. Heck, I might even go all out and get some proper neoprene plugs instead of just chopping up foam pipe wrap! To anyone interested in my humble set up I'll post the materials here. Sub with whatever Amazon has if you don't do wally world! http://www.walmart.com/ip/Aqua-Culture-20-60-Gallon-Double-Outlet-Aquarium-Air-Pump-1-Ct-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/10532634 http://www.walmart.com/ip/Sterilite-5-Gallon-Tote-Titanium/22700305 (can't find the "just one" link but they have them for $4 or $5). I really feel this size is perfect if all you wanna do is build a fast good root system. 20 x 1 1/4 holes in a small container easily carried and filled. No need to go to huge unless you really want to go hydro all the way. I sure don't. (and couldn't anyway with size and money constraints. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Aqua-Culture-Bubble-Aquarium-Stone-1ct-Fish-Aquatic-Pets/10532636 Cheapest heater you can find. (Amazon and ebay cheaper than walmart / petsmart for some reason) I'd go for 2 x of the 5" if you are using the pump I referenced. I have 10" and the bubbles are OK, but would likely be better with a stronger pump I am using. Regardless, It works good enough for tomatoes and peppers <--(notoriously tough rooters). Get the black silicone tubing from petsmart or wherever, walmart doesn't carry it. So I took a 1 1/4" hole saw and punched 20 holes in it, then cleaned them up with a knife (the longest part of the job). The tote is already "drilled" to accept the tubing at the handles. The pump comes with check valves. Fill it up and turn it on. I get a little condensation that I could probably fix with something that I have around the house here, but seriously, a paper towel is more than enough. I'll revive this thread to document my rooting progress. Greenfin, I could probably get to 85 with another $10 heater. My water here is alkaline. I'll drop the ph to get rooted though. It's cheap and easy. I just hope they don't mind when they are big o' trees, because I ain't gonna baby them forever! Looks like many others have done this successfully. I might just do the whole lot of them then. I am still reluctant to add nutrients, since I get great results without them on veggies. I can be convinced of course. Pics? Any time Doc! __________________ Zone 7b Albuquerque

snaglpus

Registered:1244258188
Posts: 4,072

Posted 1416416320	Reply with quote #17

It should work fine. People root cuttings in water all the time. The trick to rooting in water is to keep the water oxygenated and clean. __________________ Dennis Charlotte, North Carolina/Zone 8a

coop951

Registered:1217167527
Posts: 596

Posted 1416446456 · Edited	Reply with quote #18

I am really enjoying this thread. I am also looking for a winter project and I can't decide between DWC and the sprayer/ misting method. Anyone with some experience on these methods please chime in. Wokin.....Please keep us updated on your progress. It is most appreciated Cheers Coop __________________ Coop Northern NJ Zone 7a

GRamaley

Registered:1357742252
Posts: 791

Posted 1416447759	Reply with quote #19

I tried doing the floating styro with the cuttings in the water and they seemed very slow to start and wanting to rot, then I tried where they are above the water and are wet just from the spray from the air stones and I have been very pleased with the results. I was so happy I just built a second one...the long roots are from the first cutting I put in and I have already potted up one and it us doing great. __________________ Gloria --------------- 7a, maybe 8

Hershell

Registered:1396922438
Posts: 650

Posted 1416448426	Reply with quote #20

Nice Gloria. __________________ Hershell Zone 8. Ray City, Ga.

GRamaley

Registered:1357742252
Posts: 791

Posted 1416448543	Reply with quote #21

One fancy one and one Walmart special!!! Dixie cups make great foam holders.. __________________ Gloria --------------- 7a, maybe 8

GRamaley

Registered:1357742252
Posts: 791

Posted 1416450594	Reply with quote #22

I got two plastic containers of different heights but the same mouth size..... hose, dual air pump, two small air stones. I took one lid and decided where I wanted holes and used the foam disk I got off ebay and marked the hole size then used dixie cup in the hole to hold the foam insert. I used the adhesive that you get in the kits for hanging stuff to stick the stones to the bottom... cut a notch in the side of the tub for the hoses to run thru. Taped down the hoses with electrical tape...I let the stones run for a bit to make sure the spray was making it up to the top...then I just set the taller container on top... __________________ Gloria --------------- 7a, maybe 8

GRamaley

Registered:1357742252
Posts: 791

Posted 1416490149	Reply with quote #23

I put in enough water to cover the air stones (from Walmart) so that when the bubbles pop they spray the lid with a little water. I also add 5ml of hydrogen peroxide and 5mil of a hydroponic root food (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012BFBJG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) which I add once a week... if there seems to be any slime starting I change the water.I put in two of the 5in (smallest) stones, could have used one long one.... not sure it matters as long as you are getting an even amount of bubbles... the ones closest to the stone seem to grow the fastest , at first I had only one and let it wander... now I added two and adhered them to the bottom. Mostly what I did was read Snag's posts and then try to find the cheapest way to do the same....I juat started, Snag and others have been doing this much longer than I. __________________ Gloria --------------- 7a, maybe 8

rafaelissimmo

Registered:1335639347
Posts: 1,473

Posted 1416501261 · Edited	Reply with quote #24

Wok'n 78F is perfect. And yes, keep the bottom of the cutting just above the surface of the water, i had a good success rate in rooting, and sometimes they will even root when submerged, but ALL the cuttings I lost, I lost because they rotted from being dipped too deep. My learning curve cost me a lot of $$ and heartache. __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

eboone

Registered:1378418906
Posts: 1,101

Posted 1416507618 · Edited	Reply with quote #25

Thanks for the explanation Gloria. Do you use a water heater(aquarium) or a heat mat under it all? Source for the foam discs? (I suppose you could cut up a sheet of foam as well.) __________________ Ed Zone 6A - Southwest PA --------------------------- Short wish list: CDDG, LSU Red, Dark Greek (Navid), Col Littman's Black Cross. And any cold hardy early fig.

GRamaley

Registered:1357742252
Posts: 791

Posted 1416512822	Reply with quote #26

I don't use a heater under it just the lights above that seem to keep things in the high 70's This is who I bought the disks from and shipping was crazy fast.. http://www.ebay.com/itm/321368784263?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&var=510257382678&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT __________________ Gloria --------------- 7a, maybe 8

ascpete

Registered:1336096379
Posts: 1,942

Posted 1416520730	Reply with quote #27

Woknblues, IMO, the Bubble cloners work best for rooting Green fig cuttings and Aeroponics Cloners work better for Dormant fig cuttings. I've posted my success with the DIY Shoebox Bubble cloner tests in a few of the recent Cloner topics, http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1284197705&postcount=14 . . IMO, for rooting and growing fig cuttings the simplest and most successful may still be planting the cuttings in a sterile (clean) mix and maintaining the recommended temperature and humidity (72F - 78F and ~85% RH) at the cuttings. Good Luck.

rafaelissimmo

Registered:1335639347
Posts: 1,473

Posted 1416524801	Reply with quote #28

I think Pete is spot-on with his advice __________________ Zone 7b, Queens, New York

Woknblues

Registered:1414833570
Posts: 25

Posted 1416900846	Reply with quote #29

Quote: Originally Posted by ascpete Woknblues, IMO, the Bubble cloners work best for rooting Green fig cuttings and Aeroponics Cloners work better for Dormant fig cuttings. I've posted my success with the DIY Shoebox Bubble cloner tests in a few of the recent Cloner topics, http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=1284197705&postcount=14 . . IMO, for rooting and growing fig cuttings the simplest and most successful may still be planting the cuttings in a sterile (clean) mix and maintaining the recommended temperature and humidity (72F - 78F and ~85% RH) at the cuttings. Good Luck. Sorry late reply. Working like a dog! To clarify: Are all dormant cuttings the ones that we are getting now? (just prior to full winter?) I'm gonna give the cloner a rip.. __________________ Zone 7b Albuquerque

GRamaley

Registered:1357742252
Posts: 791

Posted 1416930975	Reply with quote #30

Just the kind you get in the grocery in the 1st aid dept...big brown bottle... __________________ Gloria --------------- 7a, maybe 8

GRamaley

Registered:1357742252
Posts: 791

Posted 1416951433	Reply with quote #31

I put in 5ml of each the HP and nutrient, once a week or so... I have less that a gal of water. __________________ Gloria --------------- 7a, maybe 8

RichinNJ

Registered:1374784282
Posts: 1,687

Posted 1416967220	Reply with quote #32

Quote: Originally Posted by GRamaley I tried doing the floating styro with the cuttings in the water and they seemed very slow to start and wanting to rot, then I tried where they are above the water and are wet just from the spray from the air stones and I have been very pleased with the results. I was so happy I just built a second one...the long roots are from the first cutting I put in and I have already potted up one and it us doing great. Nice job, very creative. Results look good.

Figaro

Registered:1360799941
Posts: 436

Posted 1417065152	Reply with quote #33

I've worked quite a bit with different forms of hydro on veggies, but have yet to try on figs or any other fruits. In general, I would try to keep water temps below 75 F to help minimize the bacteria growth. H2O2 as an additive also helps prevent bacteria, but it can't be used with all types of nutrients since it can kill the organics along with the bacteria. Lots of aeration and frequent water changes are probably the best things you can do to prevent algae & bacteria growth. __________________ ============================ [B]Figaro Zone 10b - South Florida[/I] Growing: Black Mission, Strawberry Verte, LSU Hollier, LSU Purple, LSU Scotts Black, Cajun Gold, Panachee, Excel, UCR 291-4, UCR 143-36, Violette de Bordeaux, Ronde de Bordeaux, Calvert, Black Madeira, Col De Dame Blanc Wish List: CdDN, CdDG, Ischia Black, Galicia Negra ============================

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