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brettjm

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
I'm trying to root cuttings for the first time in my life...and it's excruciating.  I have been living in the search function of the forum.  "root initials vs lenticels" "sphagnum vs newspaper vs paper towels" "easy and hard to root varieties" "rooting thick vs thin cuttings"  ...you get the point.

I grow my own veggies from seed every year under grow lights before transplanting, and those are nice.  You have to wait like, 3-5 days before they germinate and see results (except peppers...screw peppers and their 10-15 day germinating process).  It's been 5 days since I started my cuttings, and it's killing me.

I decided to go with a couple different methods, but I can't leave them alone!  I've decided to use perlite, clear cups, and bottom heat for my more valuable cuttings, but space limits me with the rest, so plastic baggie and moss it is.  I've already pulled them out and checked on them once, decided the moss was too wet, and took everything out and blotted and squeezed it in paper towels before tucking them all back in. 

Things are happening with them, but I can't say if it's roots or not.  A few cuttings do have "lenticels," which makes me paranoid there is not enough air?  I know some folks suggested that.  It definitely looks like there are some subtle changes in the wood in several cuttings that is not rot (I hope).  I know, I know, I need to leave them alone.  You know those ant farms in the glass/plexiglass window panes that lets you watch every last thing the ants do?  That's what I really need, but for fig cuttings.  You guys should invent that for people like me.

Anyways, I've decided to chronicle my adventure in a living document.  Its been 5 days and its 2 pages long, given it includes a bit of info on the varieties.  Barring something drastic (e.g. widespread mold), I have decided to not open the grow chamber I've made until Saturday or Sunday, just to air them out a bit.

I'm not asking for help, because I *think* I've got it under control.  I've got a better than average green thumb, and I'm pretty sure I've looked at everything the internet has to offer as far as advice.  I just needed to vent a little to folks who have probably gone through this at one point or another in their fig growing careers.  I'm sure that in 10 years I'll be one of the folks who just takes a cutting and sticks it in the dirt and forgets about it for a month, only to come back with a healthy plant.

Also my ladyfriend thinks I'm nuts, I'm pretty sure.

Thanks for listening.
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twovkay

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
LOL Brettjm! 

Welcome to the club!  I really just  got started in rooting cutting this year.  Previously I've only bought plants from members and only attempted rooting unknowns or Celeste from a friend's tree......that all failed!  So thanks for putting into words what all newbies are going through and good luck.

BTW, once you have plants airlayers are much easier!

Von
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brettjm

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Quote:
Originally Posted by twovkay


BTW, once you have plants airlayers are much easier!

Von


I actually did the air layer experiment earlier this year.  1 outta 2, both on twigs that were really too small to be air layering off of, so I call it a success.   You better believe I checked those dang things every day or two though.  One of them now lives in my front yard as a little tree in the ground.
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rafaelissimmo

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
I found rooting was not the hard part, I lost more twigs in the transitioning phase, if the environment is not warm or humid you can expect heartbreak further on as well. I don't recommend you transition into anything but inert media, I use 2/3 perlite and 1/3 peat moss. No bugs or gnats.
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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
My only advice is don't try too hard, figs want to grow like weeds (usually). Let them do their thing!
joann1536

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
If you can do that with the vegetables, then you can manage just fine with the figs.  Be patient and give them some time.  Some varieties take longer than others, but they'll probably root.  I also keep the holes in my humidity dome open, and air the cuttings out daily for a bit.  I also have cuttings from a tree in a vacant lot rooting outside under plastic sheeting, and they are doing fine.  I tried to upload pix, but couldn't do it -- file size too big.
I keep a spreadsheet for my information; it makes it pretty easy.
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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
I tried rooting one cutting last year. As long as I left it alone, it seemed to do fine. I followed all the threads, read everything over and over again. When the cutting started to leaf out I thought things were moving right along, as it put on some size I decided to move it.  That was my first mistake, it dropped all of its leaves.  So I let it be, it was just starting to adjust and leaf out again, and decided it was not fast enough, moved it back and killed it dead.  I was a little heart breaking, I usually have two green hands and gardening just comes easy to me, I really did not think rooting a cutting would be so involved, I've rooted hundreds of random cuttings with never a trouble. 

This year I will give it another go round and will be much more diligent. I will stop watching the pot and only monitor it.

So here is to doing better this go round. 
brettjm

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by COGardener


So here is to doing better this go round. 


Should I grab a drink?  I've got 15 or 16 cuttings going.  If I kill them, I have backups to some of them in the fridge.  I don't want it to get that far though.
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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
I'll only be playing with 4 cuttings this year, all the same variety.  I'm going to just go for it with all 4, note my observations, take pics, and compare my results with those of others at the same time and stage with the same cuttings.  With good success this year, I may delve a little deeper next given the availability of time.  In addition, I need to keep my collection rather small for the next several years since I am restricted to keeping my trees in pots until after I move. (I don't want to have to dig and move trees, I may not be lucky enough to move in the summer)

I say it is all in the eye of the beholder.  It is nice to have back ups in the event of a failure, or try different methods and record your results with each.  Branch out and see what rooting method suites you best. 

What ever you do, I wish you the best doing it.

Scott
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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Hilarious! This is great, you'll be that dude you spoke of in ten years for sure.
  Most of us have been in your shoes and still experience a bit of impatience with them every winter. Here's the thing, they aren't tender plants..they are trees and trees take their time. I don't use a heat mat much, mostly because I'm too cheap or stupid to go buy a temperature control for it(maybe this year) so I put all my cuttings and cups up high in the warmest places in the house. For me, it almost always takes right around a month to root cuttings. Some are faster and some are slower but the median is a month.
I start them in bags of sphag(SM) and I squeeze the water out of the SM till my hands shake like I'm trying get blood from rock. When I put them in the bag, I basically lay the bag flat, put down about 1/2 inch of SM, then I add about 5-8 cuttings per bag max so they are separated enough that their roots can't grow together too much if they start rooting like crazy. I then put another layer of SM on top like a sandwich, I think it is important to try have the SM covering every part of the cuttings. Then I try remove the majority of the air from the bag, just enough that I am not compressing the moss at all..yet if I pick the bag up by the zipper all the cuttings and moss will stay in place.  This basically creates a window to check cuttings or the ant-farm effect you mentioned. I put them in the bag and don't check them at all for 2 weeks. After 2 weeks I take them out of the bag gently and check them over, I do this once a week from then on.  Based on how they look when I took them out, I check them every 2-3days as I get closer to a month, and by check them I mean I pick the bag up and inspect for roots hitting the plastic. Every time I inspect the bags I flip them over because moisture will condense on the top of the bag.

Hang in there, isn't it great that you have a hobby to occupy you all winter long. Oh, I hate sprouting peppers too.
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Bevman

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
And grandma said,"the watched pot never boils".  If you want to observ the action, make a clear cup your observation chamber. Put the cutting at the edge of the cup so you can see it through the clear side. Fill the cup with your barely damp perlite moss mixture. Put the clear cup into a can or wrap it in foil so light stays off the cutting and new roots. Now, without disturbing the cutting, you can lift it out of the can or foil wrap and see what is taking place.
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FiggyFrank

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Great post.  :)
Everyone goes through this.  You typed up what we all went through!  (still go through!)
I had over 130 cuttings I was rooting 2 winters ago.  I actually traded my Carini cuttings to build my collection.  I admit, it got out of hand.  I absolutely LOVED the process though.  Since I had so many cuttings going at one time, I wasn't too bummed about losing a few.  Actually, my success rate for the rooting phase was about 90%.  As others mentioned, it's the other phases that can be a little harder.
To sum up some quick tips I learned:

  • Keep rooting medium slightly damp.  Squeeze out as much moisture as possible.  I primarily used sphagnum peat moss for rooting.
  • Maintain humidity once in the next phase (clear cup under grow lights).
  • Allow young plant to grow strong visible roots before transferring to 1 gallon pot
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Frank
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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
I know the feeling.  Patients is not my virtue either.  I am always amazed at postings where someone says they came across cuttings that they put in spagnum moss a couple of weeks prior and forgot about them.  Hopefully someday I will be able to forget about them at least for a little while.
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Yeehova

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
I actually had more success with cutting straight into a one gallon with dirt as long as they are kept moist not wet and in the shade. This worked for me in the spring/summer outside. Rooting straight in water also gave me some success indoors but overall my success rate indoors was horrible.
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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Hey Brian, one gallon is the only way I start cuttings, of course I start all year long here. I have some I am starting right now, well as soon as I get home from the beach, very high success rate as I improve the potting mix. I am up to about 60% pine bark fines, rest is Canadian peat, compost, and potting soil, one inch or more pb fines on top to keep the gnats at bay.
brettjm

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Just for kicks, I started a couple LSU purple cuttings from my tree had I just brought in.  In water.  At room temp (64 degrees).  Just to see if it would work.  The way my luck runs, those will be the ones that root.  Hah
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Yeehova

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Wayne, I assume you do all this rooting in dirt outside. Have you tried rooting with dirt indoors? That is the only way it would work for me in this climate.
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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
brettjm, love the post.  I am new to this fig forum and totally understand you pain.  Thanks for the post.
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waynea

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Yes Brian, everything is outside and if it gets down to the high 30s low 40s I have a makeshift plastic cover that I put over them. I did a lot of cuttings this way last December and January, never stored any in the refrig.
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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Worrying about them isn't going to make them root.  The best advice is to forget about them for a week or 2.
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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
I also agree with Dennis.   Just check them weekly.   Its hard for a newbie to do, but checking them daily makes it go slower.  resist the urge and you'll see more of a change on a weekly basis.
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brettjm

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
Yeah, I know I know, leave them alone.  My two biggest fears though:

1) mold...goes without saying

2) the moss really seems to dry out in some areas while staying wet in others.  I feel like in the space of a single gallon freezer bag humidity might vary greatly.  worried they'll dry out or drench.
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brettjm

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Update, I guess?

OK I lied.  Maybe I do need a bit of advice, so I'm bumping my rant and adding to it.  I checked out my cuttings this morning for the first time since posting my rant.  The good news?? I haven't killed anything yet, but things aren't exactly swell either. 

-Out of 13 or cuttings I've got in sphagnum, I've got one with a single root.  I should be excited, but with my good fortune, this root formed about 3/4" from the TOP of the cutting.  SOaB.  I'll figure out what to do with it later I guess... (in other words, ask it nicely to send out roots from the other end instead and hope it listens)

-8/13 cuttings have "calloused" or have lenticels, or whatever the puffy white dots are (some call them initials, but I guess that's misleading?).  A few are quite impressively large, actually.  I can't get my camera to do macro, but I swear that one cluster actually formed in a smiley face....I think they're laughing at me and my mental struggles.

-7/13 cuttings have formed buds...one of which JUST began to open today, from the looks of it.  There seems to be no correlation between those that have buds and those that have lenticels.

-1 cutting had neither buds nor initials, but I'll be damned if there weren't two figs on it, just to spite me.  Ironically, it's probably my thinnest cutting.  I broke them off (that'll teach it to taunt me, the little jerk!)

-Out of 6 cuttings I started directly in perlite, I decided that having only 40-50% of the cutting in perlite wasn't sufficient, so I got deeper cups and repotted them so they're ~60-70% covered now.  None had roots, but 5/6 had lenticels on the lower parts.  This was satisfying in that I know what's going on, but discouraging in no roots.  Breathe, Brett, you're only 12 days deep into this adventure...

So the real reason I'm bumping this:   I've searched 15-20 threads in the search function on what to do if you get buds/leaves before roots, because it sure seems like that's going to be my next challenge.  There seems to be a dichotomy on what to do.  Many suggest not worrying about the leaves until around 4-5 weeks.  Many also suggest repotting (in perlite, or some other sterile mix), and getting some light on them ASAP.  Putting it as a poll between those two options...which do you pick?  I've got Friday off, and I've got at least 3 cuttings that are going to break bud on me by then from the looks of it (including the one that already did), so that's when I will carry out my action/inaction.

Thanks in advance.
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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
In October I received about 9 cuttings and 2 weeks later about 9 more. All now have roots and many have leaves.
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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Whenever I get leaves before roots, I ignore them until I have good roots in the first stage.  The leaves eventually rot and fall off, but more growth will follow.  After the cutting has rooted, I move them to a 60/40 perlite/soil mix and place them under grow lights and humidity chamber.  I hope that helps.
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brettjm

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Frank,

In your experience, does the trend of "if your cutting grows leaves, roots soon follow" hold true for you?  I feel like I encountered that in a few different threads.
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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
I've had some that took too long to root and ultimately failed. Leaves can only survive so long before it relies on roots for help.
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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
brettjm,

We for sure all feel or have felt your pain.  I received my Unknown Carini cuttings from FiggyFrank on 11/21/14, I scrubbed them in the sink with soap, soaked them in the 10% bleach solution, cut them to size with disinfected pruners and dipped the end in food grade paraffin wax.  I was inspired by Charlie's Single node cuttings experiment so I cut 3 of the 6 cuttings (thank you for extras Frank, very generous of you!) into 9 Single node cuttings and placed them horizontal in potting mix in 2" peat pots. I put the remaining 3 cutting vertical in potting mix in 4" peat pots. I just moistened the soil and placed the cuttings into a humidity bin with under heat.  Since I have no idea what I did with the lid to the tote I'm using for the humidity bin, I covered it with press-n-seal.  Which I think is even better then the solid lid, I can clearly see the condensation on the press-n-seal, and I can put a light right on top of it when the time comes without disturbing anything.  So as of this evening, I am 4 days into the process and I have only looked once.  I wanted to let some fresh air in, check moisture and look for mold, so far all is perfect.  At this same time frame last year, I must have messed with my one cutting at least 40 times, so looking one time is a huge improvement on patients for me.

I'm sure some of you are wandering about the peat pots.  First I had them on hand.  Second, when transferring them into 1 gallon pots, I won't disrupt the trees, no stress.

I can't wait for the two week mark to hit, see where I am compared to yourself and others this rooting season.

Scott                           
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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
~good idea about peat pots and no stress transplanting,thanks~why didn't i think of that duh~!

I've been wondering if there was a reason that no one does, if they cause some kind of issue.
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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
Once there are leaves I keep the rest of the cutting in the perlite and put the leaves under a 100 watt CFL.  Those leaves will make food for the cutting, giving it energy to produce roots.  You just don't know if the cutting will have the energy to produce more stems.  And stems only grow from nodes.  Each node can only produce 1 stem.  I would not waste any stem I got.

I use Jon's alternate bag method linked to here.  http://figs4fun.com/basics_Rooting.html .  The first page has a good summary of principles to use.  I use heat because otherwise my bags would be in the mid sixties (temperature, not tie dye).  I check them every three days because some can dry out that fast.  I don't take them out of the bag until the roots are over 2" long unless it seems the roots aren't doing well.

I fully agree with the statement above that small roots are more likely to fail in the transition to gallon pots than are longer roots.  The trouble with long fiber sphagnum is that those longer roots tend to stick to the moss.  If you pot the moss with the roots the moss can hold too much water and rot the roots.  If you try to separate the root from the sphagnum you break the roots.  Roots will stick to the perlite as well but perlite wont drown the roots in the pot.  If you use perlite you want to get rid of the finest particles or they will hold too much water.

And now you know why I don't use peat pots or rock wool.  They're fine to produce roots but when you move them to a pot they too hold water right near the roots and rot the cutting.  Some people have not had this problem but for me it happened every time.  They seem to behave differently when they're not surrounded by soil vs when they are.
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