Why do rooted cuttings suddenly die?

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Troyb

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Posts: 97

Posted 1424309974 · Edited	Reply with quote #1

I have lost 2 rooted cuttings the past week. I'm confused because they had plenty of roots and leaves. They just wilted and shriveled up. I pulled them out, and they were rotted at the base of the stem. I am very careful about watering and always ere on the side of less water to prevent root rot. Both had soil that was moist and close to needing to be watered. The temperature stays in the upper 70s for most of the day and occasionally spikes when the sun shines through the window. Any suggestions? Attached Images image.jpg (452.12 KB, 130 views) image.jpg (373.40 KB, 128 views)

bigfig

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Posts: 87

Posted 1424311438	Reply with quote #2

wish i knew ,had the same thing happen to me .. my domenick cuttings gone __________________ Wish list :vasilika sika,,JH Adriaticand common french Joe New Jersey 6a

jkuo

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Posts: 156

Posted 1424311493	Reply with quote #3

What sort of temperatures are the "spikes"? __________________ Johnny - Lancaster, PA, Zone 6b Plants I'm growing: Google Doc

jkuo

Registered:1399944767
Posts: 156

Posted 1424311689	Reply with quote #4

BTW, in case you need the backup, I'll probably have an extra Lyndhurst White. __________________ Johnny - Lancaster, PA, Zone 6b Plants I'm growing: Google Doc

donpaid

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Posts: 216

Posted 1424311889 · Edited	Reply with quote #5

for me, the number one cause is over watering but sometimes, they are really strong like yours, and then it's almost like the cutting presses its own "abort" button

brettjm

Registered:1398901785
Posts: 215

Posted 1424311969 · Edited	Reply with quote #6

Quote: Originally Posted by donpaid for me, the number one cause is over watering This. Times ten. It's gotten to the point where I'd rather let my cuttings dry out and die that way than face watering them again :-/ __________________ In GA, Zone 7b/8a Wish list: more space to put in figs.

Hermitian

Registered:1421904752
Posts: 135

Posted 1424312469 · Edited	Reply with quote #7

First, let's consider soil moisture in containers. There are 5 levels -- count'em on one hand! 1. Saturated -- typically during watering before soil drains 2. Wet -- in a loamy soil, this is the state immediately after you have watered AND the excess moisture has drained. Ok, more drops will come but essentially its done draining. 3. Moist -- There is moisture in the soil but also microscopic air pockets between soil particles due to evaporation, uptake by the plant(s), and subsequent drainage. It is the favorite state of most plants. Sand and clay are only briefly in this state. 4. Less Than Moist -- The soil isn't dry but it is going there quickly. It is time to water. Water thoroughly so that the soil is saturated and make sure the container can drain. 5. Dry -- Many plants are dead or dying at this state. Second, when you check soil moisture the place to measure is in the holes at the bottom of the container. A chopstick makes a great probe. Now if all of the above has been ok but your rootings are still rotting, then the next culprit would be anaerobic bacteria. This is often due to copper and/or zinc missing from the culture. If you suspect this is the problem, then over the counter you can purchase Liqui-Cop manufactured under the Monterey Gardens brand, or with (or without in some states) a pesticide applicators license you can purchase Kocide 3000. The latter is potent, a few pounds might last you a lifetime. Also I would caution about using mycorrhizae in a growing media rich in organics with no sources of phosphate, iron, copper, and zinc to mediate the mycorrhizae growth. This is probably not what you are experiencing but I have seen it in the past. __________________ - Richard Vista CA, zone 10b

nepenthes

Registered:1420773819
Posts: 49

Posted 1424314452	Reply with quote #8

You said that the soil was moist AND close to needing to be watered- I started cuttings for the first time about a month ago and haven't watered most of them yet. They're all in 1 gallons and definitely dry up top (upper 1/2") and I'm trying my hardest not to pick up the spray bottle. The most important rule that I've picked up on while researching how to grow fig cuttings was that water is BAD! And I've come to realize how very little water cuttings require initally. -So in your above picture, the soil surface is a dark brown (pretty moist). Like I mentioned, mine is dry up top which looks gray and scary. I need to scrounge up all my willpower not to water. But I pick up the pot and it still has some weight to it.. I'm waiting for it to feel a whole lot lighter (and has a few more leaves) before I add some water. Hopefully this helps, but what do I know? I'm probably going to be that outlier that kills her cuttings from under watering :/ __________________ Alma from zone 7b.

Hermitian

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Posts: 135

Posted 1424315011	Reply with quote #9

Quote: Originally Posted by nepenthes You said that the soil was moist AND close to needing to be watered Who said that? __________________ - Richard Vista CA, zone 10b

nepenthes

Registered:1420773819
Posts: 49

Posted 1424315258	Reply with quote #10

Quote: Originally Posted by Hermitian Quote: Originally Posted by nepenthes You said that the soil was moist AND close to needing to be watered Who said that? The original poster, Troyb. __________________ Alma from zone 7b.

Hermitian

Registered:1421904752
Posts: 135

Posted 1424316309	Reply with quote #11

Quote: Originally Posted by Troyb ... Both had soil that was moist and close to needing to be watered. ... A moist soil is NOT close to needing to be watered. __________________ - Richard Vista CA, zone 10b

brianm

Registered:1389664758
Posts: 971

Posted 1424316467	Reply with quote #12

Probably gnats. Did you have these in a humid environment before? __________________ Wish list: Galicia Negra,UC Davis Black Ischia, Maltese Raven

waynea

Registered:1362316304
Posts: 1,886

Posted 1424317562 · Edited	Reply with quote #13

I have been there, I have lost so many over the first 2 years. If not overwatering then check for gnats, does the bark peel away? I have about 100 cuttings going through the rooting process (outdoors in a plastic shelter), sometimes overwatered but always with Gnatrol and later the total enclosure is sprayed with permethrin, so far no gnats and have lost only 4, same variety same source. The temperatures have ranged from 50-80, but they are rooting, leafing and several have nice branching. I do not recommend others rooting with this method but it has worked the last 2 years for me, I have about 350 in 3 gallons from last year. Good luck and good growing.

rcantor

Registered:1309799312
Posts: 5,724

Posted 1424318114	Reply with quote #14

Your soil is too dense and heavy and too wet. That cutting isn't dead, either. You still have white roots. Carefully pick away the rotting parts and put the cutting in coarse perlite with all the fine particles rinsed or sifted away. add a pinch of peat. Bury the cutting almost to the top. Water it once then wait till it's dry to water again. __________________ Zone 6, MO Wish list: Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.

Troyb

Registered:1423570189
Posts: 97

Posted 1424354886	Reply with quote #15

Thanks for all the replies! I had just watered the cutting in the picture a few days before. That one was definitely wet. I agree moist does not need to be watered, I think I needed to be more descriptive. The one in the picture i can understand why it died based on your comments. I broke my ankle and was having difficulty getting up to care for my figs so I probably watered it prematurely to prevent it from drying out. To be honest, I want to blame someone else like my wife, but I don't think I can; damn I think it was me. I guess I didn't think they would be so sensitive when they were rooted. The other one that had not been repotted is a bit of a mystery for me. I hadn't watered it in a long time and it was very light when I picked it up and it barely had any moisture on the sides in the cup. Take home message... I will let them dry out even more than I have been to prevent root rot.

Moonlight

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Posts: 34

Posted 1424368159	Reply with quote #16

They need to stay at the same humidity and temperature it is important ( roots and above ).

nycfig

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Posts: 884

Posted 1424373749	Reply with quote #17

Quote: Originally Posted by rcantor Your soil is too dense and heavy and too wet. That cutting isn't dead, either. You still have white roots. Carefully pick away the rotting parts and put the cutting in coarse perlite with all the fine particles rinsed or sifted away. add a pinch of peat. Bury the cutting almost to the top. Water it once then wait till it's dry to water again. +1 Water by weight. Get a cheap digital kitchen scale on eBay. Went from killing hundreds of cuttings to none by overwatering after using the scale. Cheap Scale I don't know for sure, but I think gnats won't directly kill a cutting. They'll probably cause just enough damage that the cutting will probably take up less water than it usually does. That's when the overwatering by us will start and we'll finish the job. Damn gnats! __________________ Danny NYC Z7a It's all about the figs! Facebook: NYCfigs Buying Fig Trees and Cuttings From the Internet

chucklikestofish

Registered:1391263141
Posts: 1,316

Posted 1424376319	Reply with quote #18

Quote: Originally Posted by brianm Probably gnats. Did you have these in a humid environment before? ~does the gnats kill the trees? __________________

waynea

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Posts: 1,886

Posted 1424377892	Reply with quote #19

Gnat larvae will eat as many roots as they can, usually all. Then with no roots and moist soil = dead cuttings.

chucklikestofish

Registered:1391263141
Posts: 1,316

Posted 1424385216	Reply with quote #20

Quote: Originally Posted by waynea Gnat larvae will eat as many roots as they can, usually all. Then with no roots and moist soil = dead cuttings. ~ oh my i didn't know this i will go spray them now ,thanks ~ __________________

Troyb

Registered:1423570189
Posts: 97

Posted 1424394222	Reply with quote #21

I figured out the problem with the other fig. I added a scoop of vermiculite to the mix as an experiment. I don't recommend it obviously. Hope the other ones don't meet the same fate. I also realized that my cuttings are too wet still. This cup method is harder than I expected. Maybe coconut core would be good for me to try next year. Thanks again for all the instructions. I have a lot to learn.

joann1536

Registered:1409975734
Posts: 274

Posted 1424468890	Reply with quote #22

My biggest two problems have been overwatering and gnats. Gnats are the worst!!! Of the cuttings, almost 100% rooted in December. My once beautifully rooted cuttings had begun to leaf out in January, and overnight it seemed, the roots just disappeared. The poor little leaves just withered and died. I'd never have known, but for the fact that I pulled up one cutting, and there was a big, fat larva snacking away on it. __________________ USDA Zone 9b Wish list: Abruzzi, Pasquale, Tagliacozzo, Zingarella, Godfather. Any unk Italian, especially from Abruzzo.

Troyb

Registered:1423570189
Posts: 97

Posted 1424476646	Reply with quote #23

I'll have to keep an eye out for gnats. I have seen them in the greenhouse, but not in the room I'm rooting in. Thanks for the warning.

chucklikestofish

Registered:1391263141
Posts: 1,316

Posted 1424480544	Reply with quote #24

Quote: Originally Posted by joann1536 My biggest two problems have been overwatering and gnats. Gnats are the worst!!! Of the cuttings, almost 100% rooted in December. My once beautifully rooted cuttings had begun to leaf out in January, and overnight it seemed, the roots just disappeared. The poor little leaves just withered and died. I'd never have known, but for the fact that I pulled up one cutting, and there was a big, fat larva snacking away on it. ~ that must be what killed mine ,i had 62 cuttings rooted very nice healthy looking and all.i only have 29 now so they got me good ,i have been spraying them .hope i don't loose anymore geesh ~! __________________

nycfig

Registered:1380768118
Posts: 884

Posted 1424483476	Reply with quote #25

Quote: Originally Posted by chucklikestofish Quote: Originally Posted by joann1536 My biggest two problems have been overwatering and gnats. Gnats are the worst!!! Of the cuttings, almost 100% rooted in December. My once beautifully rooted cuttings had begun to leaf out in January, and overnight it seemed, the roots just disappeared. The poor little leaves just withered and died. I'd never have known, but for the fact that I pulled up one cutting, and there was a big, fat larva snacking away on it. ~ that must be what killed mine ,i had 62 cuttings rooted very nice healthy looking and all.i only have 29 now so they got me good ,i have been spraying them .hope i don't loose anymore geesh ~! What are you spraying them with? __________________ Danny NYC Z7a It's all about the figs! Facebook: NYCfigs Buying Fig Trees and Cuttings From the Internet

magnificco

Registered:1400528142
Posts: 29

Posted 1424514627	Reply with quote #26

I go with nycfigs comparing with my experience. I would defintily say too much water. A rooted in 100% perlite. Everything fine until leaves occur...then first leaves grew, I watered more because "the poor little plants now needs so much water when having leaves"....forget it.Error!! Rot came and I'm sure, I'm really sure, gnats followed rot. They did not start the damage. Now that I keep my perlite so dry that I normally would say there is no molecule a water left in the pot (just the weight of pot, perlite and cutting in my assumption) everything stays fine. No rot, no gnats. With your rooting medium I would suggest watering once when planting cutting in. And not adding any water until the leaves begin to look like suffering drought despite being covered for high humidity. Then same thing..watering once..again wating once but intensive and not regularly and keeping moist constant. This is so crucial that I even would suggest spaying for humidity should perfectly not be done on the rooting medium. __________________ Loooking for: Negronne, Amatrice casale, Fiorone Giallo, Albo, Brianzolo, Fillacciano, Turca, Cerreto, Paradiso

magnificco

Registered:1400528142
Posts: 29

Posted 1424514984	Reply with quote #27

As I read in another thread: a user is waiting 15 days after watering the second time..and I got the impression this even is right for cuttings standing in a warm-dry living room in pure perlite....a bottom 2-3 centimeters of it stay wet enough for every root coming....One has to know that the cutting can even supply the first tiny roots with water if there is none...But no cutting can withstand rot when it is wet just a few days because there is now nutrients and water circulating in the cutting so far...so no chance for defense mechanismn to be run. with your rooting medium I would even asume 3 weeks without water to be okay if not placed on a very hot heating pad. __________________ Loooking for: Negronne, Amatrice casale, Fiorone Giallo, Albo, Brianzolo, Fillacciano, Turca, Cerreto, Paradiso

chucklikestofish

Registered:1391263141
Posts: 1,316

Posted 1424522091	Reply with quote #28

Quote: Originally Posted by nycfig Quote: Originally Posted by chucklikestofish Quote: Originally Posted by joann1536 My biggest two problems have been overwatering and gnats. Gnats are the worst!!! Of the cuttings, almost 100% rooted in December. My once beautifully rooted cuttings had begun to leaf out in January, and overnight it seemed, the roots just disappeared. The poor little leaves just withered and died. I'd never have known, but for the fact that I pulled up one cutting, and there was a big, fat larva snacking away on it. ~ that must be what killed mine ,i had 62 cuttings rooted very nice healthy looking and all.i only have 29 now so they got me good ,i have been spraying them .hope i don't loose anymore geesh ~! What are you spraying them with? ~they make a fungus gnat spray you mix with water i bought it on ebay i don't know the name right now but can find out i have to find it in my grow room ,any way look on ebay and i bought a small amount it makes 15 gal come with mixing directions and applying instruction i will get the name for you later today i have to go to town don;t have time right now ~ __________________

chucklikestofish

Registered:1391263141
Posts: 1,316

Posted 1424523038	Reply with quote #29

Quote: Originally Posted by chucklikestofish Quote: Originally Posted by nycfig Quote: Originally Posted by chucklikestofish Quote: Originally Posted by joann1536 My biggest two problems have been overwatering and gnats. Gnats are the worst!!! Of the cuttings, almost 100% rooted in December. My once beautifully rooted cuttings had begun to leaf out in January, and overnight it seemed, the roots just disappeared. The poor little leaves just withered and died. I'd never have known, but for the fact that I pulled up one cutting, and there was a big, fat larva snacking away on it. ~ that must be what killed mine ,i had 62 cuttings rooted very nice healthy looking and all.i only have 29 now so they got me good ,i have been spraying them .hope i don't loose anymore geesh ~! What are you spraying them with? ~they make a fungus gnat spray you mix with water i bought it on ebay i don't know the name right now but can find out i have to find it in my grow room ,any way look on ebay and i bought a small amount it makes 15 gal come with mixing directions and applying instruction i will get the name for you later today i have to go to town don;t have time right now ~ ~it is called ~GNATROL~ __________________

chucklikestofish

Registered:1391263141
Posts: 1,316

Posted 1424523084	Reply with quote #30

Quote: Originally Posted by chucklikestofish Quote: Originally Posted by chucklikestofish Quote: Originally Posted by nycfig Quote: Originally Posted by chucklikestofish Quote: Originally Posted by joann1536 My biggest two problems have been overwatering and gnats. Gnats are the worst!!! Of the cuttings, almost 100% rooted in December. My once beautifully rooted cuttings had begun to leaf out in January, and overnight it seemed, the roots just disappeared. The poor little leaves just withered and died. I'd never have known, but for the fact that I pulled up one cutting, and there was a big, fat larva snacking away on it. ~ that must be what killed mine ,i had 62 cuttings rooted very nice healthy looking and all.i only have 29 now so they got me good ,i have been spraying them .hope i don't loose anymore geesh ~! What are you spraying them with? ~they make a fungus gnat spray you mix with water i bought it on ebay i don't know the name right now but can find out i have to find it in my grow room ,any way look on ebay and i bought a small amount it makes 15 gal come with mixing directions and applying instruction ~it is called ~GNATROL~ __________________

chucklikestofish

Registered:1391263141
Posts: 1,316

Posted 1424523146	Reply with quote #31

Quote: Originally Posted by chucklikestofish Quote: Originally Posted by chucklikestofish Quote: Originally Posted by chucklikestofish Quote: Originally Posted by nycfig Quote: Originally Posted by chucklikestofish Quote: Originally Posted by joann1536 My biggest two problems have been overwatering and gnats. Gnats are the worst!!! Of the cuttings, almost 100% rooted in December. My once beautifully rooted cuttings had begun to leaf out in January, and overnight it seemed, the roots just disappeared. The poor little leaves just withered and died. I'd never have known, but for the fact that I pulled up one cutting, and there was a big, fat larva snacking away on it. ~ that must be what killed mine ,i had 62 cuttings rooted very nice healthy looking and all.i only have 29 now so they got me good ,i have been spraying them .hope i don't loose anymore geesh ~! What are you spraying them with? ~they make a fungus gnat spray you mix with water i bought it on ebay ,any way look on ebay and i bought a small amount it makes 15 gal come with mixing directions and applying instruction ~it is called ~GNATROL~ __________________

nycfig

Registered:1380768118
Posts: 884

Posted 1424526039	Reply with quote #32

Chuck - A lot of people on the forum use Gnatrol including myself. It's a great product. Are you spraying your plants with Gnatrol in addition to watering? __________________ Danny NYC Z7a It's all about the figs! Facebook: NYCfigs Buying Fig Trees and Cuttings From the Internet

chucklikestofish

Registered:1391263141
Posts: 1,316

Posted 1424527893	Reply with quote #33

Quote: Originally Posted by nycfig Chuck - A lot of people on the forum use Gnatrol including myself. It's a great product. Are you spraying your plants with Gnatrol in addition to watering? ~no i don't get any on plant all you do is wet the soil down as often as it says once every 5-7 days until they are gone.~ __________________

lifigs

Registered:1374698291
Posts: 217

Posted 1424529547	Reply with quote #34

I have used Gnatrol in the past with good results. One thing I remember reading is don't mix large batches since once mixed with water it only has an effective shelf life of about 14 days. This year I have been using a coir and perlite mix (2 parts coir/1 part perlite) and have not had a gnat sighting yet but there is still a lot of rooting season to go so we shall see. __________________ Bill Long Island (Nassau) 7a,NY Wish List: Sicilian Red, RdB, JH Adriatic, Sal's EL and any fig from Bari.

chucklikestofish

Registered:1391263141
Posts: 1,316

Posted 1424537137	Reply with quote #35

Quote: Originally Posted by lifigs I have used Gnatrol in the past with good results. One thing I remember reading is don't mix large batches since once mixed with water it only has an effective shelf life of about 14 days. This year I have been using a coir and perlite mix (2 parts coir/1 part perlite) and have not had a gnat sighting yet but there is still a lot of rooting season to go so we shall see. ~somebody on the other forum juat told me they do one app of seven and it kills them all and doesn't hurt tree ,i'm going to try seven~ __________________

chucklikestofish

Registered:1391263141
Posts: 1,316

Posted 1424537176	Reply with quote #36

Quote: Originally Posted by chucklikestofish Quote: Originally Posted by lifigs I have used Gnatrol in the past with good results. One thing I remember reading is don't mix large batches since once mixed with water it only has an effective shelf life of about 14 days. This year I have been using a coir and perlite mix (2 parts coir/1 part perlite) and have not had a gnat sighting yet but there is still a lot of rooting season to go so we shall see. ~somebody on the other forum juat told me they do one app of seven and it kills them all and doesn't hurt tree ,i'm going to try seven~ ~and thanks for the info i didn't know that ~ __________________

joann1536

Registered:1409975734
Posts: 274

Posted 1424543362	Reply with quote #37

I used coir for rooting this last batch of cuttings, and it worked great. The cuttings were in clear drink cups placed inside humidity domes with heat mats. I could see the nice big roots through the cups. Once the roots were looking really nice, and the cuttings sprouted leaves, I potted in 1-gallon black plastic, and was keeping them indoors in clear plastic storage boxes. I watered them when I repotted, but no heat mats, just humidity from being inside the storage boxes and I "aired out" the boxes daily. That's when I began to notice a couple of the cuttings starting to look wilty. I thought maybe it was a bit of shock from repotting, so I left them alone thinking they'd recover in a day or two. Then, another couple of cuttings started to wilt. This didn't happen with the cuttings I rooted outdoors last September. It didn't happen with the ones I rooted in ziplock bags. I lost a few and I still have a few that might survive. They've lost leaves, but the branches are still green and not dried out so I remain hopeful. I pulled one of the rotted cuttings up, and that's when I discovered the larva. There were no roots at all on this cutting, which had a lot of really good roots when it was in the plastic cup. Gnats ate all the roots from the cuttings, so the plants just wilted and rotted. The weather has been in the 60s, a couple of 70s so I've been lugging them out onto the patio during the day so they get some sun. Nights are high 40s, and I am covering them at night. I have started to use 1 tablespoon H2O2 in a gallon of water. So far, my fingers are crossed, but it is looking pretty good. I'm not a big one for using pesticides. I'd much rather try to prevent them. __________________ USDA Zone 9b Wish list: Abruzzi, Pasquale, Tagliacozzo, Zingarella, Godfather. Any unk Italian, especially from Abruzzo.

Troyb

Registered:1423570189
Posts: 97

Posted 1424552859	Reply with quote #38

Another one bites the dust! I had a Marseilles vs that had a ton of roots, but rotted. I haven't watered it in ages. No sighn of gnats, just rot. Do you think I can salvage it if I cut the growth and the rot off?

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