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Encanto Farms Nursery > Topics > Pictorial: The 5 Minute Mini SIP
 
 


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FMD

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Most of us have had problems with the cupping phase of turning a cutting into a fig tree. We finally get that rare cutting to root, only to have it die in the cup. Crap! Why does this happen?
Three reasons: over-watering, over-watering and last but not least, overwatering. Oh yeah, occasionally it will die from under-watering (life happens, we forget).
You can optimize the growing medium by screening out smaller pieces of perlite, using turface or by sacrificing a chicken to Santeria. Still, none of these measures will eliminate our predilection for over-watering (or under-watering). Human nature to over-nurture our babies is too powerful an instinct to control completely.
We literally drown out plants with love.
So, what are the possible solutions?
The benefits of SIPs (Sub Irrigation Planters) has universal agreement. Many forum members grow their adult trees in SIPs. See Bill's Figs for details (http://figs4fun.com/bills_figs.html).
Why do plants do so well in SIPs?
Simply because SIPs free plants to self-determination. SIPs allow a plant to feed and drink however much it requires and whenever it wants. In other words, we can't kill it by over or under-watering no matter how hard we try.
The mini SIP in this tutorial cost $0 to make and around 5 minutes of my time by recycling 8 and 32 ounce styrofoam cups.
I am experimenting with the notoriously finicky, FMV laden UC Davis Black Madeira cuttings. If these succeed, all others should be a cinch.

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Frank
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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Frank ,
What a great adaptation of a proven growing system.
I think I will try this on some Summer cuttings.
Thanks for posting this now.


 
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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Thank you Frank for posting the pics of the build. Will give this a try on the next batch of cuttings to up pot.
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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Pretty sweet!

Anybody could do this on a nothing budget.

Kudos Frank
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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Frank,

  You are right and that is a great idea. Where were you in February when I needed you?
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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
Very nice Frank .

Keep us updated on their progress .

John
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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Very nice.

Is it still advisable to sacrifice the chicken?  If so, can it be fried chicken with a side of cole sla... Hey look at that, it's lunch time.
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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Very clever!
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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
 A MacGyver special all the way! Good luck.
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FMD

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Updated results...

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Frank
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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
I love this and I think I could even do it but I guess I'ma dingbat....where do you put the water in? Into the straw on top, or do you submerge the whole cup for the bottom spout, or what? <blushes>
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FMD

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Sophie, I use a 60 cc syringe to water from above but I suppose it would work using your method from below.
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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Am also a dingbat, does the water sit below the over flow pipe? And if you over fill it drips out,
I always thought you need a wick of some sort for sip.?
But as soon as I get my numskull head around it, I will surly be doing the same thanks for sharing you great idea.
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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMD
Sophie, I use a 60 cc syringe to water from above but I suppose it would work using your method from below.


OK, so you squirt the water from the syringe into the straw and it goes down to the bottom....then it overflows out the bottom straw if it's too much...or do you just throw your syringe full of water directly onto the base of the plant? or does it even matter?

TIA for the clarification!
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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Luke, there is indeed a wick. Look at picture 8. The potting mix around the outside of the small cup at the bottom of the big cup acts as the wick to the rest of the potting mix.

Sophie, I water via the top straw.
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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Thanks Frank! I'm definitely going to give this a try, and not just with fig cuttings either! :)

How often do you find that you have to water on average?
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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
I kind of had the same idea, but my sip was not quite as elegant as yours.  It's a 32 oz plastic cup inside a clear 32 oz plastic cup. The wick is a Keurig coffee filter.  I cut a smaller clear plastic cup to use as a spacer for the top cup to sit on, so it would push the Keurig cup up.  No overflow, since I can see in the cup.  I just lift the top cup in order to fill the resevoir.

IMG_20130922_160853.jpg 

I made one like yours today, but used a 32 oz plastic cup.
IMG_20130922_161035.jpg IMG_20130922_162746.jpg 

Thanks!

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FMD

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Very nice, James. Thanks for posting pictures of both systems. The bigger the straw, the easier it is to water.

Sophie, initially, you may have to water every few weeks. As the plant grows, you will need to water more frequently. When watering daily becomes the routine, it is time to re-pot the plant. 
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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Quote:
Sophie, initially, you may have to water every few weeks. As the plant grows, you will need to water more frequently. When watering daily becomes the routine, it is time to re-pot the plant. 


I guess that means it's time to repot my LSU Tiger Not. That 5 gal bucket SIP is empty every morning.
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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Hi Frank I can't wait to try this, I use Bill's pots for some of my big plants. Just to clarify, the 8 oz cup has its top ring sliced off, then you cut about 4 gashes in its sides, then you place it upside down inside the 32 oz. cup? Let me know. Thanks

Rafael
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DallasFigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
This is awesome for baby figs! I had a few in cups, one seemed to not be doing anyting at all and didn't seem to have happy roots. It had only 1 leaf that didn't seem to be growing. After about a week of being in one of these SIP's, it has a new leaf and it neary doubled in size in the past 2 days. It seems very happy now. Thanks!

I put a freshly rooted cutting in one (pics in another thread of mine) w/o going to a humidity bin. Waiting to see if it continues to grow. If that works, then all my new rootings will go straight to one of these.
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Tam

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
Very nice, thanks for sharing.

Best,
Tam
FMD

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Rafael, you are correct in how you summarized the process. Good luck.

James, I've had similar results.

As a matter of interest, I believe that rooting cuttings with or without root riot cubes would work incredibly well in one of these mini-sips. Imagine setting up the cutting in one of these and not having to water again for 6-8 weeks! This is the Ron Popeil method of "set it and forget it".

Over the weekend I experimented with a 16 ounce clear cup producing a super duper mini-sip specifically to root a small KB branch that I accidentally cut.
I will let you all know how it turns out.
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Frank
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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Hmmm.. I have some new cuttings. I'll try too root one like this too. Do you put a dome over it until the roots get started to keep it from drying out from the top?
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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Thanks for sharing the idea, Frank.
Do I understand correctly that the soil will act as a wick for moving moisture from the bottom saturated soil to the soil above ?
Being a small container for rooting, what about the roots health in the bottom saturated soil near "perched" water level (if there is any) before the stored water is consumed?
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DallasFigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Ottawan.  FMD is the expert here, but here's my 2cents.  

I target the "roots" section to be about in the center of the cup vertically.  Yeah, it'll be much more moist toward the bottom, than the top.  The roots will grow to wherever they are the happiest.
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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
That is a lot more than 2cents for me, James.
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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
I'll keep everyone posted on how mine perform, but what I've seen so far, is astounding.
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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
The suggestion by Frank is very useful and easily made.
The reason I asked the question was that if the principle is moisture ingression through the soil upward as needed then using an inch deep saucer (or more depending on the rooting pot height) under the rooting pot should achieve similar environment for the roots (may be except the frequency of watering).
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FMD

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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
James, I don't see the need for a humidity dome especially if most of the cutting is burried in the potting media. Still, it would probably not hurt to have one.

Akram, I suppose a well constructed pot and saucer system could be as effective, but for me nothing beats the all-in-one concept championed by the earthbox people.

 One of the biggest misunderstandings of this system is the misuse of potting media. You cannot use soil! That will only get you a boggy mess at the bottom of the pot with zero wicking and rotting roots. With the proper medium (mixture of peat, perlite, etc), the water is wicked up evenly throughout the  mixture and you will not have a perched water table. Imagine the freedom the roots are granted being able to go where ever they want and drink as much as they want 24-7. Add to that a localized source of food that the roots can access 24-7 and you have a very happy plant.
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Posted Reply with quote  #31 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMD
 One of the biggest misunderstandings of this system is the misuse of potting media. You cannot use soil! That will only get you a boggy mess at the bottom of the pot with zero wicking and rotting roots. With the proper medium (mixture of peat, perlite, etc), the water is wicked up evenly throughout the  mixture and you will not have a perched water table. Imagine the freedom the roots are granted being able to go where ever they want and drink as much as they want 24-7. Add to that a localized source of food that the roots can access 24-7 and you have a very happy plant.


oops.. I'm using potting mix with a little bit of cow manure compost and a lot of Perlite.  They seem to be happy for now, but maybe it'll be a problem down the road.

What exactly is your mixture ratios for non-soil medium.  When you say peat, is that the same as Sphagnum moss? shredded or long fiber?
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FMD

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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
James, your potting mix is fine. Potting mix is not potting soil. You can buy it or make your own. Peat refers to peat moss from peat bogs. Coir can substitute for peat.

Ratios can vary but 70:15:15 is often used (peat:perlite:vermiculite) There are endless variations. Just no soil.
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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
Clearly, I've lost all sanity....

7 Bryant Dark, 4 Joe Dark.

20131012_223652.jpg 

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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
Fantastic information!  I have to give this a try. It is so heartbreaking to see those cups die. All that hard work!  Thank you for the ideas.
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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
James, crazy indeed...like a fox!

Sarah, let us know how it works for you.
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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
I'm definitely going to try this so thanks for the post Frank and the variation in design, James! One thing that many have stressed on the forum is the need for aeration of the roots i.e. the need for several large holes in the side of the cup.  Apparently, this system allows enough oxygen to get to the roots even with the cover over the top of the cup and only one hole in the side.  Perhaps the need for the holes in a conventional rooting cup has more to do this allowing the soil to dry out rather than allowing oxygen to get in.

My only question is where is a good place to find 32 oz styrofoam cups with lids?  I don't frequent fast food joints very much but maybe I'll make an exception to pick up a few of these cups.  I did a bit of on-line shopping but could not find reasonable quantities - 1000 is too many!
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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
Very nice information, thanks for sharing.
Tam
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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
I think McDonalds large cups are styrophone.

All of mine are plastic and I got them from Dickeys BBQ, Fuzzy Taco and McAllister's Deli.  The ones from McAllister's, I found about 30 of them at once in the dumpster when I was looking for 5 gal pickle buckets.  I like those because they are clear and I can more easily monitor the state of the roots.  I keep planning to stop by and talk to the manager to see if he can just save me a stack of used cups that people leave behind.

I expect to be able to reuse them, though I may have to replace the reservoir cup and straw.
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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
James,

I am not sure that clear is good for the roots unless you cover them with smth. I keep watching my cuttings in the cups separated into 2 groups, one is clear uncovered and one is inserted into the black pots. The roots in the dark are much stronger and longer while the roots subjected to the light are thinner. I just covered the clear cups after they have been like that for about 2 weeks.
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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
yeah.. i'm planning to wrap some foil around them.  Just haven't had a chance yet.  Still, it will allow me to check on them now and then.
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Posted Reply with quote  #41 
OK, so I've collected most or all of what I need to make a mini-SIP very similar to Frank's design as well as something like James' design in his first pic of post #17.  James, since you have done it both ways which design do you prefer?  The advantage with your first design (Keurig cup as a wick) is that it allows for more soil mix to fit into the 32 oz cup and it does not require the presence of either the short horizontal straw or the long vertical straw.
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Posted Reply with quote  #42 
I'm still undecided on which one I like the best.  I ended up sticking a straw between the inner and outer cups of mine so I don't have to remove the inner cup for refilling the reservoir.  Both seem to work just as well for growing.

Here's the pro's for and cons for each one as I see it.

FMD's version Pros:  Looks better.  Uses less 32oz cups.

FMD's version Cons: slightly smaller soil volume (not really an issue), a little harder to make, can't see the water level, can't place directly on window sill's w/o some sort of drip protection from the overflow tube.

My version Pros:  Using a clear outer cup and opaque inner cup helps protect roots from light but allows to see water level, slightly larger soil volume (doesn't matter), a little easier to make, no fear of drips on window sill.

My version Cons: uses more 32 oz cups.  Looks a little ghetto.  seems heaver, thought I know it can't be by much.

With that said, I only have one of mine and 13 of FMD's with cuttings growing.  I didn't want to waste my cups.  If you have a place to put them (like setting them on a tray) where you don't mind a little water drippage, I'd go with FMD's version.  If you want to put them all along your window sills w/o worrying about water damage, go with mine.
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Posted Reply with quote  #43 
Just found this source for 32oz deli containers that should work well. I know there was a link a while back to purchase these in a case of 500. This is a case of 240. After shipping it came to 24 cents each. Including lids.

http://www.webstaurantstore.com/32-oz-microwavable-plastic-deli-container-with-lid-240-case/128HRD32%20%20%20%20COMBO240.html
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Posted Reply with quote  #44 
Hi Frank, 2 questions:

1. Am a little confused by pic 5- according to my understanding, the majority of the 8 oz cup minus the top ring should be placed upside down at the bottom of the 32 oz cup, but in pic 5, it looks like only a small portion of the 8 oz cup is left-is that a deceptive photo or have I misunderstood something?

2. I have checked the thread, but I cannot find your exact soil formula.  Is it 50% peat moss 50% perlite, or what?

Thanks very much for your help!

Rafael
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Posted Reply with quote  #45 
Hi Rafael,

Picture 5 does not show the proper depth. The size of the 8 oz cup used for the reservoir does not change after the top is trimmed. You don't really need a huge water reservoir for these mini SIPs since they are to be used for the early stages of rooting. The initial watering will last a month or more depending on the the growth of the plant. If you have to water daily, it is time to up-pot to regular one gallon or larger containers.

Just to be precise, we do not use the word "soil" to describe the growing medium. Soil implies dirt, silt, organic matter, bacteria, fungi etc that all come from the ground. 
Any good potting mix from a garden center or box store is adequate. You can roll your own using peat moss, perlite, vermiculite, coconut coir etc at various ratios.
I personally like the 80:20 ratio of peat moss to perlite, but I am sure 50:50 would work also.

Frank
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Posted Reply with quote  #46 
Thank you Frank for your erudite response-I will be more careful when referring to the growing medium!
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Posted Reply with quote  #47 
I love the streamlined concept of 'planting' a cutting and theoretically not having to do anything more than monitor it till its time to move to larger pots. May have to have some of my students do an experiment along these lines with a couple different experimental groups to test multiple variables. Thanks for sharing a great idea! 
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Posted Reply with quote  #48 
Here's my variation on the same theme using the materials that I could more easily find.  Note that the images came out in reverse order for some reason.  The yogurt cup has three vertical slits that don't quite reach the top or bottom of the cup.  I decided to put a number of small holes in the bottom of the yogurt cup so that when it is turned upside-down inside the SIP it will facilitate gas exchange between the soil and the outside.  I'm not sure if this matters but I figured it couldn't hurt.

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Posted Reply with quote  #49 
Thanks for the pics, Rewton.
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Posted Reply with quote  #50 
Rewton, very nice.
I like the holes in the yogurt cup. As you say, it can't hurt.
One could also put holes in the bigger container above the water reservoir for better oxygenation of the roots.
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