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javajunkie

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 
Just wanted some feedback on worm castings. I have bought a whole tote of them and have started adding them to my figs.

Has anyone ever tried cupping with perlite and worm castings? I am going to have to start cupping soon, the cuttings someone (Alan) was so kind as to give me are getting roots so it won't be long.

Also, anyone from a really humid place.... I am wondering why the cups in the container couldn't be put outside in the shade with the lid off and brought in at night and covered. I am wondering if that would help with the whole problem of taking them out of the humidity to pot up again.
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omotm

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Interesting, I just bought some worm castings myself.  I have a Hunt fig that I received from JF&E in the fall and am going to move it to a 6.5 gallon SWC (self watering container) this weekend.  I plan on adding some worm castings (1 cup) to the potting mix.  It can't hurt and it can only help.

My opinion is that new cuttings might be a bit early to try worm castings and perlite only.  Of course, if you want to experiment and report your results like many members do here, go for it. 

Many members are not as lucky as us to be blessed with very high humidity : )  You would have to time your cuttings to coincide with the high humidity in the late spring / summer.  Well, then there is the other concern.  When the humidity gets high so do the temperatures and the cuttings might bake in the heat even in the shade.  You did make me think of another experiment though, I'm going to try starting some cuttings this summer directly in 1 gallon nursery pots outside.
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javajunkie

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
That's what I'm talking about Steve. We're blessed with the weather to be able to try this stuff out. It just makes me wonder how people got their figs before we had all the bells and whistles, ya know?
Then I see pics of cuttings left in a bag outside over winter that are growing.
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Nichole

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
worm castings are so dense when damp I dunno I'd want just castings and perlite but I bet if you mixed some into whatever your usual mix is I wonder if they'd like that
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Posted Reply with quote  #5 
Yup, you know what the "old timers" did?  Stuck a fig stick in the ground and it grew.
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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
I agree 100% with Nichole!  Also, for whatever it's worth, I do have a "Worm Factory" and make my own castings (well, actually the worms make the castings!).  If you add 10-20% castings to the mix, that's more than enough.
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javajunkie

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
That is awesome Figaro. I looked into getting a worm hotel going but I'm scared to death that I'll somehow manage to kill them all.
What kind of a set up do you have?
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Tami
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Posted Reply with quote  #8 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javajunkie
That is awesome Figaro. I looked into getting a worm hotel going but I'm scared to death that I'll somehow manage to kill them all.
What kind of a set up do you have?


I have the actual "Worm Factory"...it's essentially the same, but a slightly older version of the "Worm Factory 360", with the only difference being the lid design and a "worm ladder" that helps worm in the bottom get back up.

Here's info on the newer version:



I was worried about killing them, at first, too, especially since I'm in South Florida where the summers get pretty hot and I keep mine outside.  But the red wigglers are pretty sturdy and they do fine.  You can move the bin indoors, if needed.  If operating correctly, there are no foul odors from the unit.
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[B]Figaro Zone 10b - South Florida[/I]
Growing: Black Mission, Strawberry Verte, LSU Hollier, LSU Purple, LSU Scotts Black, Cajun Gold, Panachee, Excel, UCR 291-4, UCR 143-36, Violette de Bordeaux, Ronde de Bordeaux, Calvert,  Black Madeira, Col De Dame Blanc
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javajunkie

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
That is really interesting. I'm looking at them on ebay and they're right about $110. I spent $25 on one order of castings. One investment and I could be set. I think worm tea would be perfect for figlets.
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Tami
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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javajunkie
That is really interesting. I'm looking at them on ebay and they're right about $110. I spent $25 on one order of castings. One investment and I could be set. I think worm tea would be perfect for figlets.


Yup!  Castings are expensive to buy and the plants to love 'em.  Once the Worm Factory is established, you can generate about $50 worth of castings per month, or more.  Plus, the liquids in the food scraps leach from the bin and every few days, or so, and you can also collect the leachate, which is basically a worm tea, and give that to the plants, too.

Depending on how many worms you start with, it can take several months before it's fully established.  The worms will double in population about every three months, assuming the bin is healthy and there's plenty of food.  They do self-regulate their population and, I believe when full, the Worm Factory supports something like 12,000 worms. 
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[B]Figaro Zone 10b - South Florida[/I]
Growing: Black Mission, Strawberry Verte, LSU Hollier, LSU Purple, LSU Scotts Black, Cajun Gold, Panachee, Excel, UCR 291-4, UCR 143-36, Violette de Bordeaux, Ronde de Bordeaux, Calvert,  Black Madeira, Col De Dame Blanc
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javajunkie

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
12,000 worms is inconceivable to me. How many should I start with on a 4 bin set up?
Do you recommend a place to get them? I am also going to have a look at the guy I bought the castings from.
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Tami
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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
I use worm castings in my cutting mix and soil mix.  My cutting mix is mostly perlite - more than 95%.  I add a thin dusting of an organic material to the top so the air spaces don't get clogged.  The organic things can be whatever I have around:  peat moss, worm castings, pine bark dust, etc.
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Figaro

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by javajunkie
12,000 worms is inconceivable to me. How many should I start with on a 4 bin set up?
Do you recommend a place to get them? I am also going to have a look at the guy I bought the castings from.


I'd start with 1 pound, which is about 800-1000 worms, depending on size.  I definately recommend NOT buying them online from Home Depot.  Even though they were about the cheapest I could find, they were dead by the time they arrived, and HD reshipped a replacement that all arrived dead, and then a 2nd replacement (3rd shipment) that all arrived dead before I told them to just give me a refund.

I re-ordered on eBay and I don't recall the seller, but they all arrived live and much quicker than HD.

It should cost about $20 - $30 for a pound, depending on the source, and in about a year, you'll have close to 12,000 worms, although, I think 12,000 is supported on a 5-tray system, so on a 4-tray it may be a couple/few thousand less. 

The number 12,000 sounds like a lot, and I guess 12 pounds of worms, or so, is a lot, but 1 pound is about the size of a heaping handfull, so it sounds like much more than it looks like. :)
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gorgi

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 
For those interested to build their own cheap 'worm-compost' gismo;
there are tons of googled  info/help on the subject. Here is one site:
http://whatcom.wsu.edu/ag/compost/easywormbin.htm
I may build one myself...
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javajunkie

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
I think I'm going to buy one. The home made tub ones don't look all that sturdy and I know at some point the dog will jump on it or more likely I will run into it when I'm not watching where I'm going.

I figure with the set up cost it will have paid for itself in 120 days.

I watered a few small ones I have with worm tea last night. They came to me without being hardened and I have been having a little trouble with them so I am hoping this will help them a little.
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Tami
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omotm

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Figaro,

Thanks for sharing the video.
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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
I found this is really a bargain. 5 try system $69 + $9.99 Shipping. free shipping over $99. So I added 6 pack of coco fiber $34.
http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Worm-Composting/VermiHut-Worm-Compost-Bin-Terra-Cotta?gdftrk=gdfV23673_a_7c1677_a_7c8224_a_7c3110009_a2s__a3a__a2s_3110012&gclid=CNmn9LDAqLYCFUhV4Aod2UUApw
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Figaro

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Quote:
Originally Posted by omotm
Figaro,

Thanks for sharing the video.


Happy to help ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmychao
I found this is really a bargain. 5 try system $69 + $9.99 Shipping. free shipping over $99. So I added 6 pack of coco fiber $34.
http://www.woodlanddirect.com/Outdoor/Worm-Composting/VermiHut-Worm-Compost-Bin-Terra-Cotta?gdftrk=gdfV23673_a_7c1677_a_7c8224_a_7c3110009_a2s__a3a__a2s_3110012&gclid=CNmn9LDAqLYCFUhV4Aod2UUApw


That's a great find!  It sure appears to me to be the EXACT same parts as the Worm Factory with a different/better style lid that's closer to the lid style on the Worm Factory 360, and about 30% less money.

EDIT:  I re-read the description a little more carefully.  They say up to 1,200 worms per tray and the Worm Factory says 3,000 worms per tray.  That being said, it does look to have the same dimensions, so I'm guessing they're the same and just being a little more conservative in the worm capacity than Worm Factory is.
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[B]Figaro Zone 10b - South Florida[/I]
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DWD2

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 
Another excellent resource about worms & vermicompost is this:
http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/topic/vermicomposting/
They also have a terrific resources page listing resources in different states:
http://www.bae.ncsu.edu/topic/vermicomposting/vermiculture/directory-by-state.html
paulandirene

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
There are some common misconceptions about worm compost tea and leachate.


Worm compost tea is made using the castings themselves. There are many worm compost tea recipes, some involve using unsulfured mollases.

Leachate is the liquid that drains away from the worm bin.
My worm bin is a nested set of 5 gallon buckets, the top bucket having holes on the bottom to let the moisture drain out....the leachate drains into the lower bucket.

I used to dilute the leachate and pour it on plants, but nearly everything I have read recently says it's not really good for plants so now I dump it down the toilet. 




http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/using-worm-bin-leachate/

http://vermicoast.com/leachate-use-it-or-lose-right-or-wrong-you-decide/

http://www.naturesfootprint.com/leachate-vs-worm-compost-tea
javajunkie

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Thank you for letting me know that. I am making tea from castings  as I haven't set up my worms yet but I would have dumped it on the plants.
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Tami
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paulandirene

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 
Tami just to clarify, tea made from the castings is great.
It's the excess moisture in the bin itself [leachate] that is not so good.
javajunkie

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Yes, I water my figlets with worm tea but I would have used the juice, I wouldn't have known better.
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Tami
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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Quote:
Originally Posted by paulandirene
There are some common misconceptions about worm compost tea and leachate.


Worm compost tea is made using the castings themselves. There are many worm compost tea recipes, some involve using unsulfured mollases.

Leachate is the liquid that drains away from the worm bin.
My worm bin is a nested set of 5 gallon buckets, the top bucket having holes on the bottom to let the moisture drain out....the leachate drains into the lower bucket.

I used to dilute the leachate and pour it on plants, but nearly everything I have read recently says it's not really good for plants so now I dump it down the toilet. 




http://www.redwormcomposting.com/reader-questions/using-worm-bin-leachate/

http://vermicoast.com/leachate-use-it-or-lose-right-or-wrong-you-decide/

http://www.naturesfootprint.com/leachate-vs-worm-compost-tea




Thanks for that post!  I was aware of the difference between the leachate and tea since I do make the tea also using molassas and an airpump (tip: paint straining bags are cheap and a great way to hold the castings while they brew!), but I had never heard that the leachate could be harmful and shouldn't be used on plants that are to be eaten.
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snaglpus

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Posted Reply with quote  #25 
Question.....where do you guys place your worm bin?  It's been extremely hot in Charlotte over the past 30 days----some days 100 degrees.  I know the worms will cook in temps like that.
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javajunkie

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Posted Reply with quote  #26 
Mine sits in my office with a piece of cardboard under it "just in case".
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Tami
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Posted Reply with quote  #27 
Dennis, I think if you shade and shelter it enough some of the worms will survive the heat spells.  For example, if you put it in the woods or on the north side of a large tree/trees.  Or on the north side if your house.  The more sheltered the better.  Full shade is recommended.  Some might die but as long as some/most survive, there will be enough eggs to keep the population up and then in the cooler weather they will be fine.

I would not want one to be indoors due to the smell and large quantity of water that will need to drain out on an ongoing basis.  Most of the items you will be putting in are probably 85% water by weight, which will come out as the stuff decomposes.  A garage would be OK as long as you had a way to drain the water without making a mess.  But it soon becomes a hassle if it's a manual process. 

I wouldn't want to use worm castings for cuttings due to the chance of fungus gnat infestation.


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javajunkie

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Posted Reply with quote  #28 
I don't know how you take care of your worm farm Rob but mine doesn't smell and very very rarely leaks.
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sal

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Posted Reply with quote  #29 
I recently bought a bag of worm castings. Some places recommend to add it to water and Aerate it some places don't.. I guess I could buy a cheap fish tank pump and air stone. Or should I even bother?
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javajunkie

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Posted Reply with quote  #30 
If you want to keep a bucket of it ready to go that would be good. I just mix mine and let it sit overnight and use it right away and it seems to work fine.
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Tami
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Posted Reply with quote  #31 

I agree with Tami.  I keep mine indoors near the kitchen.  It doesn't smell and has never leaked.   It is handy to feed it by having it indoors.  I have the Worm Factory 360. 

Temps here go too low in the winter and too high in the summer and I definitely didn't want to leave it out spring and fall and bring it in during the summer and winter as it would bring other things in.
sobelri

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Posted Reply with quote  #32 
Finally a topic I can weigh in on. (Note – I’m new to growing figs and have been lurking for a little while to learn as much as I can..)

To keep odor and excess moisture down in any worm bin you need to remember two things:

1. Feed the worms in moderation. Too much food at anyone time can lead to the bin heating up too fast and anaerobic conditions.

2. Provide both vegetable matter (greens) AND carbon rich bedding (browns). There are a lot of discussion/opinions on what the best ratio is for a healthy, productive worm bin. I can only go by my experience. If you want the worms indoors, provide at least 3 parts brown material for every 1 part green.
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adoresfigs45

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Posted Reply with quote  #33 
I purchased some castings and mix them in with my potting soil.   Since we have bait shops near us    Maybe I will just buy some cups of wigglers and make my own bin.   definte shade project because it is 90 and sweltery here in Tampa every day.   I think I would have to be careful because of afternoon rains also.   Don't forget to get your coir at pet supermarket.  3 bricks for 8 dollars.   working fine for me.   Joyce
sal

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Posted Reply with quote  #34 
Sobelri


Welcome to the forum:)

Where do you guys buy the equipment needed to setup a worm compost bin ? Also is there a place that sells all the equip needed including the worms.

Ive seen setups with spigots on the containers I can only assume this was used to collect and use the leachete? Or just to be able to remove it? After reading this I didn't know the leachete is dangerous. .. Im glad I read this because I would have never known.
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Posted Reply with quote  #35 
I tried making a worm bed, probably 10 yrs. ago. Had a dead chest type freezer, so I drilled a hole in one corner, put some screen over it and set it up with cardboard bedding. I had chickens at that time so I dug some worms from the chicken run and put them in. They disappeared. I figured I needed to buy some but never got around to it. I dumped all my used coffee grounds in there figuring they'd hold till I got worms. When I moved I just loaded it on the trailer as is, put it off to the side here, and kept putting coffee grounds in it. One day I was dumping some grounds in and just for grins I dug down into it. under a couple of inches of grounds I hit worms, zillions of them. I hadn't checked in 6-7 years and they had been multiplying like crazy.

The bedding had settled and the whole thing was too big and awkward to work with so I left it... planning to take them out into more manageable beds when I got time. Then we had a period of heavy rain, the door gasket developed a leak, and I went out to put grounds in one day and found standing water and all the worms drowned. RATS!

I drained it, and covered it so more water couldn't get in, and sure enough, there had been eggs that survived, so the worms came back. Still not as many as there was, but I do have a working population, waiting for me to get around to it.

The moral of the story is. Go for manageable sized worm beds.
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eboone

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Posted Reply with quote  #36 
Quote:
Originally Posted by greysmith


The moral of the story is. Go for manageable sized worm beds.


Or open a bait shop  :)
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sobelri

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Posted Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sal
Sobelri


Welcome to the forum:)

Where do you guys buy the equipment needed to setup a worm compost bin ? Also is there a place that sells all the equip needed including the worms.

Ive seen setups with spigots on the containers I can only assume this was used to collect and use the leachete? Or just to be able to remove it? After reading this I didn't know the leachete is dangerous. .. Im glad I read this because I would have never known.


Be forewarned, managing a worm bin (aka vermicomposting) can be as addictive as growing fig trees.

There are a number of commercially available bins available (CanOWorms, Worm Factory, etc.). You can also build your own. Just do a quick search on google using 'worm + bin'.

the worms population would grow.

One really informative website on the subject is:

http://vermicomposters.ning.com/

As far as purchasing worms, your best bet is to buy locally from a garden center or get to know an established worm farmer on the website listed above. There are many enthusiasts who will help you start a bin by donating a pound of worms.

fig cuttings for some worms.

Should you decide to purchase over the internet research the seller. There are a few hucksters out there.

On the subject of leachate. It can be dangerous but it does have value. Most people dilute the leachate with additional rainwater and use it on plants that don't produce fruit or veggies.

Hope that helps.
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greysmith

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Posted Reply with quote  #38 
Here's what I'm probably going to do. There are a lot of good ideas on the Larry Hall site.

I took another look at what I have, and it's a mess. Lots of worms but they're in a thick almost tar like substance that you can't just screen them out of. I'll need to put clumps of it on better bedding and let them work their own way out.

I have tried cutting up paper and cardboard, (a table saw works best for cutting cardboard) and, it's too time consuming. Peat moss looks like the way to go.

Leachate shouldn't be a problem, if you control moisture going in. Run the food through a blender and strain off excess moisture. Yeah, I know, that's time consuming too, but it gives fast, top quality, fine grain castings.

I think it's important to define what you're after... up front. If you are raising worms to be a garbage disposal, that's one thing. If you're in it for the castings then you might want to go about it differently. I have a big compost pile. I clean the neighbors barn for the manure and turn it with the loader on my tractor. It's nothing to just toss food scraps in with that. I use the compost as top dressing in the garden and around the orchard trees, so it doesn't need to be top quality. The worm castings I want as a top grade amendment for potting soil.

If I'm going set it up as a production thing I want to have a set feeding schedule, with a consistent feed recipe.

I have a number of ideas about how to go about it... but I'd rather test them out on bucket size lots before I go to larger size setups.

Which brings up a pet peeve. I watch these how to videos and they are billed as the best thing yet... but then, you watch it and the guy is saying,"This should work". He hasn't tried it!!! There is one there called "Hybrid Worm Bin (The best DIY worm farm). It's a super elaborate thing. And he does an update after he's used it a couple of weeks, and, he shows how the lid warped, so, he had to screw it on to stop the worms from escaping. Hellooo? If the worms are trying to escape it's because they don't like it in there. The worms are putting their energy into crawling up the walls rather than into producing castings. The problem might be in the bedding, or the feed, but, you don't know. And, he billed it as "the best" before trying it. Don't tell me something works before you've tried it.
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GardenGirl37232

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Posted Reply with quote  #39 
I use my paper shredder to shred my newspaper and add it to the worm bin.  It works great and you can process a lot of paper in a short time into tiny bits with really minimal effort.  It is essentially free as the newspaper would have just gone into the recycling trash otherwise.  My worms basically get newspaper, food scraps, and the remains of cut flowers after they have started wilting. 
Figaro

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Posted Reply with quote  #40 
I've learned quite a bit in the two years since I first commented on this thread and thought I'd share some of my current thinking. 

First, there is clearly debate over whether or not the leachate is good or bad for the plants.  In my opinion, this depends on what you're composting.  If you're only composting vegetable/plant matter, I do not believe there are any issues with using the leachate.  However, if you're composting animal waste (especially from carnivores!), I would not use the leachate or compost until fully composted.  That being said, the next thing I learned was that, if the worm bin is managed correctly, there should be very little, if any, leachate at all.

My worm factory, which was left outdoors, got infested with fire ants that literally attacked and killed all the worms in the bin.  Since then, I've made my own bin using three inexpensive Sterilite 15 gallon totes I store in the garage.  The bottom one has two bricks in the bottom to support the top one (or two) and provide airflow.  The two that go on top have lots of holes drilled in the bottoms and around the top-sides for aeration.  The lid that goes on the top tote also has lots of aeration holes drilled in.

I did not put any drain in the bottom tote and have very little, if any, leachate accumulating in the bottom.

Because the totes are larger than the worm factory bins, it does take longer to generate a batch of castings, but the system supports much more worms, so can process much more waste and, I anticipate, once it gets more populated with worms, will process the larger bin just about as quickly as the smaller bins.

Two more things I've started doing just this year (speaking of the addictive nature of maintaining worms!)...

I've been making my own dry worm food to help provide the grit they need for their gizzards and also manage the moisture.  I grind up eggshells with things like dry pinto/kidney/black/red/garbanzo beans and add some cornmeal.  I'll store this in a jar and "sprinkle" some in the bin and/or mix in with their other food. 

Also, when I pulled out my HUGE collard greens plant a couple of months ago, I took all the leaves and blended/pureed them down with water, then added some of the dry food to get a "pasty" consistency, then I froze the mixture in some containers and chopped (literally with a hatchet!) into some chunks that I use as "popsicles" for the worms on the hot days here in the South Florida summers to help cool the bin and add to the food.  When I add one of these, I make sure to place it on some dry shredded paper/cardboard to help soak up any excess moisture.

I hope those additional tips help! ;)
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[B]Figaro Zone 10b - South Florida[/I]
Growing: Black Mission, Strawberry Verte, LSU Hollier, LSU Purple, LSU Scotts Black, Cajun Gold, Panachee, Excel, UCR 291-4, UCR 143-36, Violette de Bordeaux, Ronde de Bordeaux, Calvert,  Black Madeira, Col De Dame Blanc
Wish List: CdDN, CdDG, Ischia Black, Galicia Negra
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