A pollination mystery in September

Author

Comment

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1479284090 · Edited	Reply with quote #1

This happen last year and is puzzling me again. I just collected a few ripe Unk. Pastilliere figs (Nov. 15th), it is a Smyrna and must be pollinated to ripen. The figlets appeared about 2 months ago, in September, way past the pollination season. Regardless of that , the seeds sink and sprout. Why???? How did the pollen get in and from where??? The photos below are from today. Edit: sorry, I cannot post a photo . I am getting an error " Limit exceeded" for any size :( __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

figpig_66

Registered:1416870358
Posts: 2,678

Posted 1479297280	Reply with quote #2

You have the,wasp in cali __________________ RICHIE BONI HICKORY LOUISIANA ZONE 8B WARM HUMID WINRERS ARE VERY MILD LOW 20'S BUT WARMS RIGHT UP DURING THE DAY. SUMMER IS EXTREMELY HOT & HUMID 100 degrees 100% humidity fig tree grow like crazy but some split from rain & humidity Wish list. Col de dame blanc Col de rimada Lsu numbered figs

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1479312270	Reply with quote #3

Yes, but the pollen is supposed to be available in the spring/early summer only. There are no ripe caprifigs in the Fall __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

kiwibob

Registered:1245560680
Posts: 179

Posted 1479313405	Reply with quote #4

"I just collected a few ripe Unk. Pastilliere figs (Nov. 15th), it is a Smyrna and must be pollinated to ripen." According to Condit in "Fig Varieties: A Monograph" (available on my website as a downloadable PDF), page 456, Pastilliere is a Common type Fig, not Smyrna! If yours is a Smyrna type, best to drop the name Pastilliere and quit adding to the Varietal confusion. kiwibob, Seattle __________________ See my Website: http://sites.google.com/site/kiwifruitsalad2

Figgysid1

Registered:1413859653
Posts: 388

Posted 1479315079	Reply with quote #5

The website data limit is full. You can post to a photo hosting site and post the image link. When you say past pollination season. Does that mean all capri figs have ripened before September? Or that the wasps no longer active. If the figs are off the capri fig trees fall on the ground. Do they dry or rot? Maybe the wasps and pollen are still alive and active, long after the capri figs fall to the ground. __________________ (Zone 12a) Big Island, Hawaii, 2,400 ft elevation, Fern Forest. Avg. July High 77,Avg.Jan.Low 56 Precipitation days 290, annual rainfall 201.80 inches.

hoosierbanana

Registered:1287901146
Posts: 2,186

Posted 1479319833	Reply with quote #6

Another possibility is the wasp and pollen came from a hybrid fig, or different species. __________________ 7a, DE

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1479320905	Reply with quote #7

Kiwibob, This fig goes under the name Unknown Pastilliere, it is a Smyrna and is different from the Common Pastilliere fig you are referring to. Sorry about the name confusion but it is what it is. Sid, I do not know if the wasp was active in September, but even if it was, the pollen was not available. The profichi figs with pollen are only there in the Spring or early summer: http://waynesword.palomar.edu/pljun99a.htm It also seems that there would be a zero chance the wasps survived several months with the pollen still viable. __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1479321080	Reply with quote #8

Quote: Originally Posted by hoosierbanana Another possibility is the wasp and pollen came from a hybrid fig, or different species. Maybe, I wish I knew where it is if that's the case __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

lampo

Registered:1329071797
Posts: 2,061

Posted 1479336686 · Edited	Reply with quote #9

Igor, Long after Profichis ripen and fall to the ground, be they of the early or late types, and if weather keeps warm and dry, there are always some wasps remaining inside the decaying figs. If you cut open these fruit spread under the canopies of some Caprifigs throughout July, August and September, you will certainly find a few live wasps ad pollen. Some pollen grains may still be fertile. DK chip buds, done mid March/2016 shooted long whips with plenty of main crop fruit.Many of these DK figs ripen through the 3rd week of October having certainly been caprified as their seeds were mostly of the 'heavy' type. You right, there are still mysteries surrounding the life, duties and death of the fig wasp. Francisco Portugal

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1479344514	Reply with quote #10

Thank you, Francisco. Very helpful, as usual. As a side note, this might mean that shipping the profichis does need to be overnight since the wasps can survive months inside the rotted figs. It is interesting that most of the caprifigs I am aware of, grow on the public streets that are cleaned at least once a month, there is very little chance the figs would stay under a tree for long. Still a mystery on my side. __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1479373069	Reply with quote #11

Hi, Here nearby I know of a smyrna-type figtree that will ripen some fruits (like in 5 to 20 while dropping 200 during the season) come October. It seems that the fresh air can trick some figs to ripen. Those smyrna figs will fall from the tree during the whole season at different stages and size and not ripen during the summer. Those figs won't fall all at the same time. __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

lampo

Registered:1329071797
Posts: 2,061

Posted 1479376630 · Edited	Reply with quote #12

Quote: Originally Posted by greenfig Thank you, Francisco. Very helpful, as usual. As a side note, this might mean that shipping the profichis does need to be overnight since the wasps can survive months inside the rotted figs. It is interesting that most of the caprifigs I am aware of, grow on the public streets that are cleaned at least once a month, there is very little chance the figs would stay under a tree for long. Still a mystery on my side. Igor, I do not think the business of shipping those caprifigs would result ... but you may try! Out of the many thousands of wasps wandering around your streets right in season, these late insects are just a few inside the dry Profichis. If you relying on the City caprifigs, be prepared as one of these days zealous managers will uproot the figs and replace those capri's by far nicer trees as this one...for instance http://www.fairchildgarden.org/portals/0/images/About_Fairchild/Archives/Scurlock%20Collection/delonix-regia-web.gif This is already happening here ! Think you need to get a nice pair of boots and get to the fields where you shall find them in Nature plus (Iam sure) a good deal of 'fig' surprises - December is a good month to start mapping these trees.. and around July-August to check for fruit. Are you near the long 'City creek' ? http://culvercityhistoricalsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/la_ballona_now-Large1.jpg good luck Francisco

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1479395685	Reply with quote #13

Thank you for the suggestions! Yes, a danger of loosing a tree or two is there but I am not really worried about this. The wild figs as a weed are practically everywhere and the city at some point will give up or run out of the resources :) I live about 40 min from Culver City. I usually just drive through, now I have a reason to stop by. Thank you for a link. jds, I my case, it is not one of many that ripen, I would say 80% of the figs might get to the edible state. __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

BERNARD

Registered:1450086289
Posts: 3

Posted 1479727141	Reply with quote #14

Hello I was a fig grower a few yearsago and I confirm that Pastilliere is a common fig.

helike13

Registered:1456145451
Posts: 185

Posted 1479728782 · Edited	Reply with quote #15

Fig experts say... Pollen is found only inside the Profichi crop of the caprifigs... If so... What will pollinate the Mamme crop of the caprifigs? __________________ My varieties: Baracska [P], Tihany [P], Gustissimo® Peretta [P], Dark Portuguese Unk [P], Zidi (UCD) [S], UK Purple [C], Black Bursa [S], Roscoff [PC], Capri UNK [C], Black Malta [P], Panachee Tiger [P], Feng Chan Huang [P], Iraqi (Palmata Hybrid) [P], Ice Crystal [S], Ficus racemosa, De la Reina (MP) [P], Doree Goutte d'Or [P]

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1479747913	Reply with quote #16

Quote: Originally Posted by BERNARD Hello I was a fig grower a few yearsago and I confirm that Pastilliere is a common fig. As I mentioned above, the variety discussed is the Unk. Pastilliere (Smyrna) , not the regular Pastilliere (a Common) __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

greenfig

Registered:1359790036
Posts: 3,182

Posted 1479748130	Reply with quote #17

Quote: Originally Posted by helike13 Fig experts say... Pollen is found only inside the Profichi crop of the caprifigs... If so... What will pollinate the Mamme crop of the caprifigs? Interesting question. Are all three Caprifig crops pollinated? Cannot be, right? Since only the Profichi contains the viable pollen __________________ wish list: Violeta, Calderona. USDA z 10a, SoCal

helike13

Registered:1456145451
Posts: 185

Posted 1479764382	Reply with quote #18

For non-persisitent caprifigs... All crops will drop without ripening if unpollinated... One more thing... In the Profichi crop the female flowers are receptive before the male flower is ready to open and distribute pollen. This is due to avoid pollination inside the flower. So what will pollinate the first Profichi fig to start the pollination chain? __________________ My varieties: Baracska [P], Tihany [P], Gustissimo® Peretta [P], Dark Portuguese Unk [P], Zidi (UCD) [S], UK Purple [C], Black Bursa [S], Roscoff [PC], Capri UNK [C], Black Malta [P], Panachee Tiger [P], Feng Chan Huang [P], Iraqi (Palmata Hybrid) [P], Ice Crystal [S], Ficus racemosa, De la Reina (MP) [P], Doree Goutte d'Or [P]

hoosierbanana

Registered:1287901146
Posts: 2,186

Posted 1479765089 · Edited	Reply with quote #19

Quote: Even in the total absence of pollination, oviposition by the wasp prevents untimely dropping of syconia and ensures development of the figs to final ripening. The viability and maturation of the unpollinated syconia, due to occupation by wasps, is therefore of vital importance to the annual life cycle of the insects. The alternative stimulus to maturation of the syconia, namely fertilisation, is never available to mamme and profichi and only infrequently to mammoni. Fruits which do not produce any seeds and whose development is induced solely by inhabitation by wasps have been named by Condit (1947) 'stimulatively parthenocarpic' __________________ 7a, DE

helike13

Registered:1456145451
Posts: 185

Posted 1479789181 · Edited	Reply with quote #20

So the caprifigs will ripe without pollination if colonized by Blastophaga psenes... But how do caprifigs 'know' the presence of wasps? They just say 'I feel I have some wasps in my syconia'? __________________ My varieties: Baracska [P], Tihany [P], Gustissimo® Peretta [P], Dark Portuguese Unk [P], Zidi (UCD) [S], UK Purple [C], Black Bursa [S], Roscoff [PC], Capri UNK [C], Black Malta [P], Panachee Tiger [P], Feng Chan Huang [P], Iraqi (Palmata Hybrid) [P], Ice Crystal [S], Ficus racemosa, De la Reina (MP) [P], Doree Goutte d'Or [P]

Previous Topic | Next Topic

Modal title

Insert Code

Please paste your code into the box below: