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Babylon

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Posted Reply with quote  #401 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankallen
NOBODY should be making comments unless they have proof!! Several of us have dealt with James before with his cuttings! Unless you can prove what you are saying, it's best not to say anything that could ruin a person's reputation!


No proof that he is mailing trees, either. Who are these people who he mailed to?

I do hope he comes through, but it is highly suspicious. The fact that he is pre-ordering for 2017 when he hasn't filled 2016 orders is insanity.

A fig in the hand is worth more than hypothetical plant not even being grown yet.
Chapman

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Posted Reply with quote  #402 
It looks like his plan to pre-sell trees before he even had the cuttings was a poor plan.  I hope it works out for the people who have paid all this money up front.
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adipose

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Posted Reply with quote  #403 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankallen
NOBODY should be making comments unless they have proof!! Several of us have dealt with James before with his cuttings! Unless you can prove what you are saying, it's best not to say anything that could ruin a person's reputation!


I would agree if you said "accusations" instead of "comments."  Certainly, even by his own statements, he was overly optimistic as to what he could accomplish.  He didn't take into account low success rates for rare varieties.  The comment that he was buying on ebay this year to propagate for cuttings sold this year is interesting, as well.  If any of those cuttings are the wrong variety, he won't know until after he's shipped trees.  This basically means we are buying trees from other sellers by proxy (albeit once removed), who we might not have otherwise trusted (since we don't know who they are, we can't say).

I don't think this is a deliberate scam, but I also think $7 was not realistic, especially for varieties that regularly sell for $50-$200 on ebay.  How can he possibly afford to buy a $50 tree on ebay and sell small trees for $7?  He'd have to get 7 successes out of a first year tree, which for an i-258 could be quite difficult (i-258 trees typically costing much more that $50 from reliable sellers).

I wish him luck--but I'm feeling that some refunds are going to be in order, and I'm not certain any of that seed capital is still available--unless you count money from 2017.
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Frankallen

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Posted Reply with quote  #404 
Quote:
Originally Posted by adipose


I would agree if you said "accusations" instead of "comments."  Certainly, even by his own statements, he was overly optimistic as to what he could accomplish.  He didn't take into account low success rates for rare varieties.  The comment that he was buying on ebay this year to propagate for cuttings sold this year is interesting, as well.  If any of those cuttings are the wrong variety, he won't know until after he's shipped trees.  This basically means we are buying trees from other sellers by proxy (albeit once removed), who we might not have otherwise trusted (since we don't know who they are, we can't say).

I don't think this is a deliberate scam, but I also think $7 was not realistic, especially for varieties that regularly sell for $50-$200 on ebay.  How can he possibly afford to buy a $50 tree on ebay and sell small trees for $7?  He'd have to get 7 successes out of a first year tree, which for an i-258 could be quite difficult (i-258 trees typically costing much more that $50 from reliable sellers).

I wish him luck--but I'm feeling that some refunds are going to be in order, and I'm not certain any of that seed capital is still available--unless you count money from 2017.


Can you not read?? People are mentioning Ponzi Scheme and telling people to stay away from him!!!Comments are the same as accusations! You must have thought the prices were nice too and now you are condemning them because the price was too cheap! Why don't you ask for a refund and quit acting like immature, by degrading someone, when you don't even know the situation!! He will be on here tonite (according to the message above) then you can really let him have it!
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Frankallen

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Posted Reply with quote  #405 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babylon
No proof that he is mailing trees, either. Who are these people who he mailed to? I do hope he comes through, but it is highly suspicious. The fact that he is pre-ordering for 2017 when he hasn't filled 2016 orders is insanity. A fig in the hand is worth more than hypothetical plant not even being grown yet.


Who in the Hell are you? You have posted one comment and then you try to tear down a person's reputation! Did  you order any trees? If  not, you need to  stay out of this you Idiot! You have been a member here 5 hours!
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Frank from Bama-  Zone 7-b Alabama

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Babylon

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Posted Reply with quote  #406 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankallen


Who in the Hell are you? You have posted one comment and then you try to tear down a person's reputation! Did  you order any trees? If  not, you need to  stay out of this you Idiot! You have been a member here 5 hours!


Manners, please. I have pointed out facts and drawn a conclusion based on the evidence in front of me. I assumed that $7 for rare trees was a pipe dream. Thus far there is no evidence to the contrary.
Frankallen

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Posted Reply with quote  #407 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babylon
Manners, please. I have pointed out facts and drawn a conclusion based on the evidence in front of me. I assumed that $7 for rare trees was a pipe dream. Thus far there is no evidence to the contrary.


Oh now you have 3 comments! Did you order any trees! 
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adipose

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Posted Reply with quote  #408 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankallen


Can you not read?? People are mentioning Ponzi Scheme and telling people to stay away from him!!!Comments are the same as accusations! You must have thought the prices were nice too and now you are condemning them because the price was too cheap! Why don't you ask for a refund and quit acting like immature, by degrading someone, when you don't even know the situation!! He will be on here tonite (according to the message above) then you can really let him have it!


I saw the comment about Ponzi schemes.  I did not endorse that comment.  I was just saying, everyone has a right to comment, especially after the delivery date has slipped multiple times.  As far as evidence goes, thus far there is no evidence that a single tree has shipped.  That's not good.

I don't know why you are so angry.  I feel like my comment was fair and politely delivered.  I have mostly kept quiet since I ordered the trees and have been patiently waiting for what I ordered.  I'll survive if I lose all my money--I'm not really stressing.

Quote:
You must have thought the prices were nice too and now you are condemning them because the price was too cheap


I'm not condemning the low price.  Heck, I thought it was too good to be true from the beginning, but I can't pass up a deal (for < $100, I can afford to lose my gamble).  I was just saying, maybe that price really was too good to be true.  And at this point, empirically, what was promised has not been delivered.  That is indisputable.  I only hope for the sake of other buyers (and Greenfin!) that it is only the schedule that has been compromised.

Quote:
Why don't you ask for a refund and quit acting like immature, by degrading someone, when you don't even know the situation!!


It's not immature to hold people accountable for what they promise.  I did not degrade anyone (unlike you, just now). Why should people who invested in this deal be silenced if they are unhappy? 

This kind of thread is bound to happen when the date has passed and there's nary a word. It will become an echo chamber.  Let's try to keep it civilized!
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Berryman

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Posted Reply with quote  #409 
"The goal of this Forum is to provide a fun and friendly arena for the exchange of ideas and plant materials by connecting people to one another."
 
The above statement from the Forum decorum section is why I am a member of this forum.  I want to learn more about figs by sharing with other people who love figs.  Personally, I applaud James for undertaking such a big project.  I wonder how of us on this forum would have the energy, drive and entrepreneurial skills to handle something like this.  It seems we should all be "rooting" for James to be successful not critiquing him.  Also, I have a commercial peach orchard and there are times the commercial nurseries will have to modify or reduce an order due to unforseen circumstances.  I have ordered trees for 16 and 17 so I have skin in the game.  I think the spirit of this forum is to give members the benefit until proven otherwise.  Just my 2 cents
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Nickdef

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Posted Reply with quote  #410 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankallen


Who in the Hell are you? You have posted one comment and then you try to tear down a person's reputation! Did  you order any trees? If  not, you need to  stay out of this you Idiot! You have been a member here 5 hours!


I'm sure he is a forum member afraid to use his real screen name. That's a shame.
Frankallen

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Posted Reply with quote  #411 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickdef


I'm sure he is a forum member afraid to use his real screen name. That's a shame.



I believe you are right and sounds like it could be someone who is a competitor!
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Frank from Bama-  Zone 7-b Alabama

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Lebmark

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Posted Reply with quote  #412 
No he is not a competitor, I figured who he is...just Probably somebody who invested a lot of capital...
Mark
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HarveyC

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Posted Reply with quote  #413 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankallen
I believe you are right and sounds like it could be someone who is a competitor!


I suppose you have some proof for that, Frank?

I've been silent here about this although many people have asked my thoughts about this.  This is my only post on the matter under any ID, FYI.

I wish everyone the best, seriously.  I don't mind competition one bit.
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Posted Reply with quote  #414 
Regardless of the back and forth, some good points were made and now I am more concerned than ever.  What we really need is for James to make a 100% honest post about where he is the process, and when things are going to actually start happening.  Many of you don't want the trees you ordered just yet due to heat and personal reasons, I on the other hand would like to receive the goods I paid for and was promised in early July.  As a business owner I fully understand that things happen and sometime you have to shift the schedule to the right.  When this happens, it is imperative that there be great deal of communication going on particularly when the funds have already been received on promised goods. 

I know he is very busy, but to busy for a quick update? When I clicked on his user name it said he had not logged in for 11 days and had not posted for a month.

James, Please let us know how things are coming.
pofigist

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Posted Reply with quote  #415 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickdef
I'm sure he is a forum member afraid to use his real screen name. That's a shame.


Competitor whose business of selling cuttings/trees on eBay will be killed with prices GreenFin can provide.
tsparozi

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Posted Reply with quote  #416 
I've been following this thread almost since I joined the forum earlier this summer. I don't have any skin in the game for 2016 although in all honesty, I also have now made nominal purchases of both cuttings and rooted plants for 2017 as I am also looking to make additional cutting purchases from some of the other members / sources as they become available. I surely hope that James is able to fulfill the commitments that were made by accepting the purchase orders. I guess in hindsight, the only thing at this point, that we can be certain of is that James perhaps overestimated his ability to convert his mother stock into additional marketable stock. Perhaps as a first effort in this space, he should have set an 'end of sale' counter that would have been triggered at a preset value so that the orders did not just keep on coming in until the end date. Looking in the rear view mirror is easy, executing against a deliverable when all the chips don't fall as was optimistically expected... not so much....

In any case, I am rooting for James to be successful even if he is late. I am also rooting for him to be able to also manage his 2017 orders that have been accepted to date; perhaps even shut down any additional orders if that hasn't happened yet so that the 2017 mountain to climb doesn't overwhelm what appears to be an already strained operation.

Not sure what recourse anyone would have if the worst case scenario plays out and James is unable to fulfill 100% of his 2016 orders; will he be able to refund those unfulfilled 2016 orders? What about the 2017 orders already in the bank?  What does it mean for his future in the nursery business if things go south? Once burned, twice shy as the saying goes.... Let's all hope that that scenario doesn't play out....

Even though I have only been a part of this forum for a relatively short while, I am certain that folks on this forum are a very generous people and most everyone will gladly give James the extra latitude he may need to complete his phase 1 project(even above and beyond the latitude already given on the deliverable slippages); he should take the opportunity to clear the air, bare his soul and let everyone know what is happening since we are in September; I hope everyone finds satisfaction in the end game.

T
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adipose

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Posted Reply with quote  #417 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pofigist
Competitor whose business of selling cuttings/trees on eBay will be killed with prices GreenFin can provide.


It's quite possible some sellers did lose business due to the $7 trees.  On the other hand, we don't know that any more than we know when we will get those $7 trees.  If the $7 trees are a pipe dream, though, it would be unfortunate that sellers lost sales because of it.  So, even if they are sellers that are questioning the situation, they a) are in a good position to know how feasible what he's doing is, and b) would reasonably be concerned if it's not feasible, both for their businesses and the buyers.

I honestly believe GreenFin has every intention of delivering the trees, eventually.  I just don't know if it's possible.  I imagine with each delay, it becomes harder and harder for him to post here because he knows he's behind.  The problem is, that silence is feeding back into a concern that he's bit off more than he can chew--and if so, what will happen?

Again, I wish him luck.  And if it helps, I'll take my trees last or not at all.  I can survive without them.
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pofigist

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Posted Reply with quote  #418 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFin
[IMG_1466] 
[IMG_1472] 
[IMG_1456] 
[IMG_1454] 
[IMG_1458]  
   

So, what he is going to do with all this trees, eat them for breakfast? Give him a break….
adipose

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Posted Reply with quote  #419 
If I understand correctly, he's going to let them grow big enough to start new trees from those trees, so he can meet the orders.  This is expected to take another 6-8 weeks.  Well, actually, that picture is old, so he probably already did that with those trees.

Does anyone know how many trees in total were even ordered? I imagine quite a few people ordered 10+ trees.
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rayrose

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Posted Reply with quote  #420 
I'm fairly new to this forum and don't post very much; but I emailed James
today in regards to my 2016 order. He promptly responded and apologized
for the unexpected delay, and reassured me that I would receive my plants.
He's determined to see this project through, and I believe him. As was previously
stated, he has to do one more propagation cycle, and he could not provide an 
exact delivery date, but he does not think they'll be ready to ship for a couple
of months. I don't know why he hasn't posted an update. I think he's just
overwhelmed with the amount of work involved and didn't allow for set backs
that every new business encounters. I think he's a stand up guy and will
deliver as he promised.

Ray
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pofigist

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Posted Reply with quote  #421 

I personally would not buy from anybody else this season, probably next season too- his prices and trees are looking good. And list of varieties and starter trees just endless. I already posted his information on my Facebook and few garden forums- hope he will get many more orders and will be able to do more such projects.

TGO

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Posted Reply with quote  #422 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pofigist

Give him a break….


Well I think the majority of folks here have given him a break. With the exception of a few critical posts most are expressing concern. Concern is warranted IMO not apologetics. As I have said it is a little early to storm the castle IMO, but to overlook legitimate concerns and substantive failures to deliver is not wise at this point. You might ask, what point are we at, what failures? OK, we have a failure to deliver trees that were paid for at a revised delivery schedule James himself posted (end of August). We have a failure to communicate, both the status of the project and any updated delivery projections (he responded to my initial email but did not post an update here as he indicated he would). We have a failure of the business model... not only has the initial phase failed to deliver by revised projected delivery dates but he has expanded his sales offerings by expanding beyond the 2016 and 2017 trees for sale by offering cuttings for sale this winter that includes some of the very same varieties he has indicated a difficulty propogating that has resulted in the failure to meet delivery projections... if you are having difficulty meeting the first phase of the project why open a third phase that utilizes resources that should be dedicated to ensuring phase 1 and 2 are completed and delivered successfully?

I don'the know all of the details and I have tempered my concern with a desire to give the benefit of the doubt, but the margins are slim and I do not think anyone can say concern is not warranted or that James should be "given a break". It is simple business, delivery is expected on goods that have been paid for... and when difficulties arise clear communication and honest effort is required. I too hope he can pull this together, but anyone who has paid $$$$ has a legitimate right to be concerned based on performance to date.
pofigist

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Posted Reply with quote  #423 
" but anyone who has paid $$$$ has a legitimate right to be concerned based on performance to date. "    


True, but seems like unknown   member, who started this storm , not even a concerned buyer..... 

       
Lewi

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Posted Reply with quote  #424 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babylon
He hasn't come through for spring of 2016! Take your money elsewhere. I can't believe the moderator has let this scam stay active for so long.


He (Greenfin) is only less than 1.5 months as off the initial ship date...

Calling this a "scam" when the individual shows you his infrastructure and plants is really low and uncalled for.

Greenfin's cuttings from the early fall rooted well, and the leaves appear to match variety...my Hollier fig is now really too tall and whipy at over 7ft! :)

I expect the goal post will be moved one last time, and we all will get our trees.
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Lewi = Levite 
TGO

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Posted Reply with quote  #425 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pofigist
" but anyone who has paid $$$$ has a legitimate right to be concerned based on performance to date. "    


True, but seems like unknown   member, who started this storm , not even a concerned buyer..... 

       

Well I am a concerned buyer, and I was so concerned I contacted James directly. I am still concerned. The issue at hand is the performance of James to deliver to paid customers products he has committed to deliver and provide clear communication when difficulties are encountered. While I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt, that is the issue at hand, and there is a clear basis to be concerned based on performance.
pofigist

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Posted Reply with quote  #426 
You were not the one who started this conversation with a rude and strange tone.
Babylon

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Posted Reply with quote  #427 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pofigist


Competitor whose business of selling cuttings/trees on eBay will be killed with prices GreenFin can provide.






Not that anyone will believe me, but I am not concerned about fig prices. I have sold some cuttings but am not in the business and am not a competitor. Merely a hobbyist concerned that people may lose their money.

Besides, a legitimate business does not sell fig futures but rather plant material on hand.

Edit to add: once again, I sincerely hope he comes through may order next year if he does. But there is no evidence he had come through for anyone despite claims of shipping. Some pictures from a greenhouse mean nothing to me. In fact, it makes me more wonder how he can keep these dozens/hundreds of varieties straight. I have experience in nurseries, keeping things organized is critical to preventing mistakes. But hopefully greenfin will arrive and dispel any doubts shortly as repeatedly promised.
Nickdef

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Posted Reply with quote  #428 
Babylon, since you created a 2nd ID to post your concerns it takes away validity to your motive. However, I do think this discussion needed to happen.
DBJohnson

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Posted Reply with quote  #429 
Uh....Nickdef....

Considering the way some have been treated here for raising concerns in the past, I don't blame Babyln one single bit for using a sock puppet account for this.
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Posted Reply with quote  #430 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pofigist
" but anyone who has paid $$$$ has a legitimate right to be concerned based on performance to date. "    


True, but seems like unknown   member, who started this storm , not even a concerned buyer..... 

       


Regardless of who did or did not say it first, we have all been thinking it!!  I for one am glad that the elephant in the room is being addressed.

Missing a self set dead line... or two is one thing, the lack of communication is one of the loudest bells here.  There is time to add updates the website for 2017 but not add a few quick notes here?

Not say that James is or has, yet this where the lies start to CYA.  Claims have been made that James has stated to some people that emails have gone out and the first wave of trees was already shipped.  Okay, to whom?  There has been NO posts here from anyone stating that they received an email or trees. We all know how exited we would be to get either and a post would DEFINITELY follow it.  I know I will post when I get my shipping notification.
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Posted Reply with quote  #431 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBJohnson
Uh....Nickdef....

Considering the way some have been treated here for raising concerns in the past, I don't blame Babyln one single bit for using a sock puppet account for this.


Uh...DBJohnson.....
It shows a cowardness and lack of integrity. I know all I ever need to know about Babylon and now you. Bunch of candy asses that act like school girls talking trash behind someone's back. I have no problem about anyone speaking their mind even if it has cruel intentions. But put on your big girl panties and stand behind your words and not hide behind a fake screen name.
DBJohnson

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Posted Reply with quote  #432 
Fair enough...I see you're one of the ones here is that advocates crucifying folks for voicing their opinions.... Have fun with your future Ponzi schemes.
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Frankallen

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Posted Reply with quote  #433 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickdef
Uh...DBJohnson..... It shows a cowardness and lack of integrity. I know all I ever need to know about Babylon and now you. Bunch of candy asses that act like school girls talking trash behind someone's back. I have no problem about anyone speaking their mind even if it has cruel intentions. But put on your big girl panties and stand behind your words and not hide behind a fake screen name.



Hey Nick..Thanks, for commenting like a Man, instead of a Girl!!
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Nickdef

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Posted Reply with quote  #434 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBJohnson
Fair enough...I see you're one of the ones here is that advocates crucifying folks for voicing their opinions.... Have fun with your future Ponzi schemes.


Please re-read my comment. I don't have an issue with anyone speaking their mind. It can also be as mean spirited as you like. My issue is with creating a 2nd screen name to carry it out.

@Frank...thanks
Babylon

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Posted Reply with quote  #435 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickdef


Please re-read my comment. I don't have an issue with anyone speaking their mind. It can also be as mean spirited as you like. My issue is with creating a 2nd screen name to carry it out.

@Frank...thanks


I don't think there is much more to add to this conversation other than that I do not have another screen name. If asked politely and privately, I likely would have told you who I am. But the bullying has closed that door.

Bullying reveals the true colors of people. Be well and good luck.
Frankallen

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Posted Reply with quote  #436 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyC


I suppose you have some proof for that, Frank?

I've been silent here about this although many people have asked my thoughts about this.  This is my only post on the matter under any ID, FYI.

I wish everyone the best, seriously.  I don't mind competition one bit.




Yes, I'm checking right now, I may have the proof! Some people at a Fig Tasting  were mentioning the word   Ponzi Scheme!!
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HarveyC

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Posted Reply with quote  #437 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankallen




Yes, I'm checking right now, I may have the proof! Some people at a Fig Tasting  were mentioning the word   Ponzi Scheme!!




Good luck with your proof.  I had heard at least one person say it was probably a ponzi scheme but I don't think that's the case and I have no idea who Babylon is.  Someone may have asked me about it during my tasting and I may have commented about that, I don't recall.  I don't really have any inside information nor do you, I assume.

James is someone I've known for several years (prior to figs) and he's been a good customer of mine.  I have done extremely well myself this year so I certainly have not been hurt by James' offerings.  James has also wished me well as I have for him.  I also have not ordered anything from James, though I did consider it earlier this year but really don't need more than what I have already.  As I've said before, I hope this works out well for everyone involved.

I think you should just hold yourself to the same standard that you set for some that made critical comments.  Speculation does no good for anyone.  This stuff about talking like a man or a girl is nonsense, IMO.
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GreenFin

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Posted Reply with quote  #438 
Sorry about the lack of updates, here's a link to an update I just posted: http://www.figcuttings.com/2016/09/fig-propagation-project-update.html

I'll re-post it here later after I adjust the formatting so that it will look right.

Again I'm very sorry about the lack of good communication, I know it's important.  I'll get back to doing weekly updates from now on.

I promise that all of you will get your trees, and I will do whatever I can to make it up to you for them being late.

************************************

Fig Propagation Project update

Covered figs--

Here are a bunch of potted figs that were up-potted and moved into this shadehouse a day or two before this pic (which is why they're pouting a little bit).  There are around 600 trees in this pic, and there are about 600 more that are this same size/age that aren't pictured.  

[IMG_1758]

I still have plants from multiple generations floating in wading pools inside swimming pools in one tunnel, here's what they look like (note that I've lowered the water level to give them more headroom).

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In-ground under plastic:

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Aquaponics trees (growing in gravel) and more potted trees:

[IMG_1772]

Outdoor figs--

The 2nd and 3rd year figs that I have outside in-ground have been flourishing.  Many are over 7' tall and loaded with fruit.  All of this wood will be pruned at dormancy and used to supply cuttings and rooted fig trees.
[IMG_1750%2B-%2BLSU%2BTiger]

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Here's a pic showing part of the outdoor orchard expansion.  I've got around 150 varieties planted in-ground so far. 
[IMG_1793]

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Notes

I am behind pace, but the project is still progressing and looks like it will be a success.  There have been a number of obstacles that sprang up and had to be solved along the way, and those slowed me down, but they didn't derail the project, they just slowed it down.  So even though I'm behind pace, the amount of fig wood is starting to accumulate very fast at this stage, and soon I'll have enough to prune/root/ship to everyone.

There are around a dozen varieties that have grown slowly and are primarily responsible for the delay (Black Madeira, Figo Preto, I-258, Maltese Beauty, Native de Argentile, Abebereira, etc).  There's a 'double whammy' effect, too: not only are these the slowest rooters/growers, they were the most requested, too, so they affect the vast majority of orders.  The most salient example is Black Madeira.  I have around 20 Black Madeira mother plants that range from 1-4 feet tall, and I need to produce around 150 small well-rooted Black Madeiras to ship.  If I get an average of 7 cuttings per mother plant and root them all, I would have about the right amount.  But whereas my success rate rooting the vast majority of varieties is around 90%, Black Madeira is more like 50%.  That means that I might just get around 70 new Black Madeira plants to survive the rooting process out of the 140 cuttings.  But while the slower propagation rate is disappointing, it certainly isn't the end of the world!  The total number of Black Madeiras is still growing exponentially, and down the road a little bit when I prune those 90 Black Madeiras (the 20 existing mothers plus the 70 new ones) and get perhaps 500-600 cuttings, that poor propagation rate should still yield 200-300 new Black Madeira trees.  So there should be more than enough Black Madeiras to go around soon, it'll just take another rooting cycle.  Even in a worst case scenario in which it requires 2 more rooting cycles, I would still be able to finish them this winter and get them shipped out as soon as weather permits, since I'll be growing in heated greenhouses all fall and winter.

I openly admit that I have failed to uphold my end of the deal by failing to have the trees ready on time, and I fully recognize that I therefore owe you all something extra, not just as fair compensation for your long wait, but as an apology, too.  I am open to all ideas and would appreciate input.  What I want to have happen is for everyone to get enough 'extras' that they feel like they still got a good deal overall in spite of the long wait.  I was thinking that free cuttings might be good, maybe giving everybody vouchers or coupons for some number of free cuttings down the road.  Giving partial refunds is another idea, although with $7 trees I'm already selling them at cost with no profit.  Another idea is to do special favors, like allowing people to make substitutions on their orders (for example if folks have acquired some of their ordered varieties from other sources during this wait and no longer need them).  That last idea seems like a potential logistical and bookkeeping nightmare, but I'll throw it out there and see what you all think.  A slightly less terrifying idea would be to allow everyone who participated in this $7 tree project to participate in a similar project next year, just for them (maybe $7 trees again?  or maybe drop it to $5 trees as a special apology?).

I want to stress that I have been working extremely hard on this project and that it is the focus of my entire life right now.  I get up and start working around dawn every single day, and I work all day until I run out of daylight or energy.  Often times I strap a headlight on and keep working after dark.  Since I am this committed, I feel very confident telling you that the project will indeed be completed successfully, and that it is only a matter of when, not if.

I also want to stress that I'm not selling any of your fig stock to anyone else.  Every fig you see in these pics is being grown for you: none of them are for sale to other people, and when people come by and want to buy them, I tell them "Sorry, no; those are all spoken for and are being grown for other people."  I have given away a handful of extra Hardy Chicago plants, but aside from that, these plants are all off-limits for other people because they're all being grown for you.

Over the next couple of weeks I'll be doing a lot of pruning and will be packing my humidity bins with thousands of rooting cuttings.  Most orders will be ready when that generation of rooted cuttings is ready.  In the meantime I will continue shipping out a slow stream of orders that do not contain any of the troublesome rooters/slow growers.  Please note, however, that I up-potted most of the fast-growers and will be trying to prune/root them in sync with the troublesome ones so that they'll all be ready around the same time and can ship together.

Exciting update:  As some of you know, my plan when I started this project was to expand into an empty 10 acre field adjacent to my house.  I had already discussed leasing it with the realtor for an affordable $400/mo, but when I called about it recently I learned that the land had just sold, and that the new owners want $455,000 for it as a commercial property and aren't interested in leasing.  That's more than I can afford, and it threw a wrench into my plans, but a couple of days ago I had a positive meeting with a neighbor about buying a different piece of adjacent land, and submitted a bid that the neighbor seemed pleased with.  He said he needed to take some time to think it over and discuss it with his family, so nothing's finalized, but I'm hopeful.  If I get this land, I'll have the space to put up another 6-10 large greenhouses, which will give me more than enough space for current needs and for future expansion.
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James, zone 6a Kansas (zone 10 greenhouses); wish list is in my profile
http://www.FigCuttings.com
adipose

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Posted Reply with quote  #439 
James,

Pictures look great.  I know you are busy, but maybe you could take some time to post a bit more details about the status?

1. How many trees were ordered for 2016, and how many do you estimate will ship in September, November, etc.?
2. How many individual trees do you have growing in their own containers (for these orders)?
3. Same questions for i-258, galicia negra, black madeira.
4. Are early 2017 orders still on schedule, in your mind?

I know some of that may be more detail than you want to share, but it would go a long way to boosting the confidence of those that are waiting on trees.  Given the current schedule difficulties, I think it's fair to share at least some of those details, so people have some idea what to expect.

We can deal with bad news, and good news, but not no news!
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Wish List: sbayi, hmari, niagara black, black ischia
Berryman

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Posted Reply with quote  #440 
This thread is evidence that many people are frustrated about the current delay in shipment and some are concerned about whether they will receive their plants.  However, it seems to me that this thread is not resolving either these frustrations or the problem and instead has morphed into something that is increasing, not relieving that frustration, and since James does not have a business contract with this forum, but instead with individual members, I do not see a way that there can be resolution of this conflict in this discussion and believe it can only occur with individual private conversations between James and individual members.  However my primary reason for writing this is that I see this discussion, in what it has become, creating an atmosphere that is fostering animosity and conflict that is harming and not helping our fig community.  I am just a member, and a new member at that, so I have a small platform to speak from.  That being said my request is that before posting on this thread, each of us considers our fig community and the effects of our post on it.  
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Milton Freewater OR  7a  looking for Sodus Sicilian, Hanc's EBT, Valleiry
TGO

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Posted Reply with quote  #441 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenFin
Sorry about the lack of updates, here's a link to an update I just posted: http://www.figcuttings.com/2016/09/fig-propagation-project-update.html

I'll re-post it here later after I adjust the formatting so that it will look right.

Again I'm very sorry about the lack of good communication, I know it's important.  It was due to a combination of being very busy/tired, embarrassed about being behind pace, and worried about setting myself up to get robbed.  I'll get back to doing weekly updates from now on.

I promise that all of you will get your trees, and I will do whatever I can to make it up to you for them being late.

James, thank you for the update! This goes a long way in curbing some of the concern! Please keep us posted and as the previous poster mentioned if you have any further specifics about revised delivery targets keep us updated. Thanks!
fignutty

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Posted Reply with quote  #442 
James regarding your linked update. I think most people don't expect anything as an apology other than their plants. At $7 no one can expect cuttings or anything else in addition to the plants. Don't make it hard on yourself by complicating things. That's my feelings. And good luck, I'm pulling for you.
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Steve in Alpine TX 7b/8a
Wish list:  Sangue Dolce, Siblawi, Victoria, Emalyn's Purple, Colonel Littman's Black Cross
Frankallen

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Posted Reply with quote  #443 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarveyC



Good luck with your proof.  I had heard at least one person say it was probably a ponzi scheme but I don't think that's the case and I have no idea who Babylon is.  Someone may have asked me about it during my tasting and I may have commented about that, I don't recall.  I don't really have any inside information nor do you, I assume.

James is someone I've known for several years (prior to figs) and he's been a good customer of mine.  I have done extremely well myself this year so I certainly have not been hurt by James' offerings.  James has also wished me well as I have for him.  I also have not ordered anything from James, though I did consider it earlier this year but really don't need more than what I have already.  As I've said before, I hope this works out well for everyone involved.

I think you should just hold yourself to the same standard that you set for some that made critical comments.  Speculation does no good for anyone.  This stuff about talking like a man or a girl is nonsense, IMO.



If you didn't order anything from James, then why are you so concerned with this issue?? I have not mentioned your Name?
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Frank from Bama-  Zone 7-b Alabama

....................................................

"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever".

Mahatma Gandhi
VeryNew2Figs

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Posted Reply with quote  #444 
Adipose:  I missed out on the ordering for the $7 fig trees this go round, so technically this isn't really my business.  But (the proverbial but), to ask GreenFin to post all the information you're requesting seems a bit much.  I don't need to know it.  Anybody who hasn't placed a order for 2017 doesn't need to know it.  If it would make you feel more comfortable getting that information, maybe you should ask privately.  Crap happens.  Over-estimating what you think you can do happens.  As long as his heart was/is in the right place and he's willing to work it out with everybody, cut the guy a little slack.  I will say, though, two-way communication is important.
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Cheryl
Chicago, Zone 6a (That's what they say, but it still feels like 5)
Growing:  Hardy Chicago, Black Mission, Brunswick, Kadota, Ischia Green, Desert King, Osborne Prolific (slow but steady), Malta Black, Violette de Bordeaux, Texas Everbearing, Beall, White Adriatic, Nolo Pink Eyed Lady.
Rooting: Ronde de Bordeaux, Celeste, Nero 600 m, Violetta Bayernfeing, Marseilles Black VS, Celeste.
drew51

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Posts: 284
Posted Reply with quote  #445 
In the update James talks about a little bonus for those of us who ordered for 2016. Hard to decide how to do it? As again it will put a strain. Maybe a 10% discount for 2017 plants would work? I don't want to put him out of business as if this works well, James should have a tremendous amount of plants in future years.
I'm not buying any expensive figs I never have, never will. If this happens to fail, well i guess I'll just wait for prices to be reasonable. I myself find it strange as for me, so many other fruits are as good and often better than figs. I like figs, but most of my family does not. Now my white strawberries, blueberries, nectarines, pluots, I can't grow enough for my family. They eat them as soon as I pick them, and I harvested hundreds, even thousands this year. The cherries this year were so good!
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Drew
Zone 5b/6a Sterling Heights MI
strudeldog

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Posted Reply with quote  #446 

James,

Thanks for the update.  You asked for input on that post. I can only speak for myself, but what I would like to see is just communications when the status of something changes and all this drama can be avoided.  I don’t need free cuttings or anything else. I think most of us understand what a task you undertook and reasonable delays in such a venture and assuming trees are received while I still need the cultivars I will be happy and think most others will be as well. In fact if of those you listed having difficulty with offer them a refund as I am sure pretty sure when you actually have the tree available you would have takers for all.

The talk of a scam angered me, and I don’t know if it happened but I don’t care for a member creating a new login to post something they would not post as themselves.  If you don’t want the statement associated with you don’t bother saying it and hold your tongue, even if what is being said has legitimate basis.
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Phil N.GA. Zone 7 Looking for: De La Reina, Del La Senyora, Martinenca Rimada, Parfum De Cafards, Ponte Tresa,  Sangue Dulce, Emalyn's Purple, and on and on
dkirtexas

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Posted Reply with quote  #447 
I did not participate in the feeding frenzy on the $7 trees, I do not participate in buying any type of futures.  What needs to be remembered here is that any thread or contribution to a thread is public to all forum members and implies consent for comment.  One does not have to be a member of the feeding frenzy to comment on what is offered to the public (our forum community), nor does longevity of membership restrict comment.  Anyone going into this adventure had to know there were risks and participation is an acknowledgement of those risks.

I am curious if the seller is a commercial entity with the appropriate licenses and permits to engage in selling agricultural products across state lines.  The sheer volume of this deal exceeds the scope of "Hobbyist".

With all that said, if this were an eBay transaction the seller would surely be crucified on this forum, and would probably lose privileges on eBay.

All parties involved have entered into a contract with a deliverable, the instant a deliverable is violated,  the contract is breached.  The lack of remedy is disturbing.  

Hope, promises, and understanding, is not a remedy.
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Thx, glad to be here

Danny K "EL CAZADOR DE HIGO"
Waskom Tx Zone 7B/8

Wish list: anything anyone wants me to have. LSU RED.  Any LSU fig.
DBJohnson

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Posted Reply with quote  #448 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickdef


Please re-read my comment. I don't have an issue with anyone speaking their mind. It can also be as mean spirited as you like. My issue is with creating a 2nd screen name to carry it out.

@Frank...thanks


And yet...you attacked me. I have created no second accounts, have been here about as long as you, and have a similar number of posts. I've attacked no one and you slung mud in my direction.

As I said before....your bullying attitude matches well with what has happened here before. You should fit right in.


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Bryant
Franklin County, VA

Zone 7a
At the feet of the Blue Ridge
Soil: Red clay mixed liberally with quartz
HarveyC

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Posted Reply with quote  #449 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankallen


If you didn't order anything from James, then why are you so concerned with this issue?? I have not mentioned your Name?


You have not mentioned me by name but speculated that it was probably a competitor that posted the critical comments.  Many people might assume you were talking about me.  I want to make it clear that is not the case.

I have also been an active member of the fig collecting community for a long time and have hundreds of friends as a result (thousands of followers on Facebook), so I have an interest in the the welfare of all buyers as well as James.

This forum is a public discussion community.  Why do you think it's inappropriate for me to comment?
__________________

Harvey - Correia Farms
Isleton, CA (Sacramento County) USDA zone 9b, Sunset zone 14

http://www.figaholics.com
https://www.facebook.com/Figaholics
adipose

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Posted Reply with quote  #450 
This is a fig community. Of course we are going to talk amongst ourselves about $7 fig trees! This post was where many of us first learned about it. It serves as a free ad for the product, a support forum, and a place for everyone to discuss the product. Asking people to not post concerns here is just not realistic. This is where we come to talk about such things.
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Wish List: sbayi, hmari, niagara black, black ischia
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