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Timo

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Posted Reply with quote  #1 

Hello,

I signed up on this forum a few weeks ago and this is my first post. There is lots of good information on this forum that has already been a great help for me. Now I hope that someone can help me with identifying this old fig tree that I found recently.

The tree is very large, about 20 foot tall an 40 foot wide. I have never seen such an impressive fig tree before. To find such a tree in my country (Belgium) was quite a surprise! The 2 main trunks have a circumference of 90 cm each. I have no idea how old this tree could be.

The breba crop starts to ripen early (mid July), about one month before my English Brown Turkey. The figs have a green skin with white flecks. The pulp is pink. The brebas are sweet and juicy, but not very aromatic. The tree is loaded with brebas (weeping branches).
The main crop seems to shrivel on the tree and a lot of main crop figs have dropped by now (San Pedro type?). But I think this is still an interesting tree, because it seems well adapted to our climate and has a huge crop of large, sweet brebas that ripen early.

On the pictures you can see 2 ripe and 1 unripe breba fig, the inside of a ripe fig, some typical leaves, and some unripe main crop figs. Does anybody recognize this variety? I think it resembles Desert King, but that’s a US variety that is rare here in Europe. Maybe some of the experts on this forum have a better idea?

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rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #2 
Welcome!  It's possible it's a DK but 5 lobed leaves are rare on my DKs.  The leaves and fruit will look different in different climates.
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Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
Timo

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Posted Reply with quote  #3 
Most of the leaves on this tree have 5 lobes.
Can the shape of the leaves be related to the age of the tree, e.g. younger trees having mostly 3 lobed leaves, older trees having mostly 5 lobed leaves?
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #4 
Hi

This tree behaves like a San Pedro.
The looks of the breba fruit are very similar to Desert King
Having no pollinators there you may loose all main crop figs... unless I send you some pollen grains and next year you could hand pollinated a few to taste.... San Pedro main crop figs are always highly sweet and flavored.. it could be done and you seem to have hundreds of figs to practice..?

Francisco
Portugal
Timo

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Posted Reply with quote  #5 

Hand pollinating fig trees sounds interesting …. Maybe this can be one of my next garden experiments :-)
Even if this tree doesn’t produce a main crop, it’s still a very good variety for our northern climate I think. It fruits early, the figs taste good and it’s VERY productive. Hundreds of large breba figs were hanging on the tree this summer. Really impressive to see!
I hope the tree will set some main crop fruits without pollination, like DK sometimes does. If so, I’ll certainly post some pictures.
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #6 
I lost my DK for some reason.. may be too hot ?
In your climate priority is to grow and ripen brebas. For that ,watch the timing for pruning which I do immediately after picking the last brebas in June ( yours in July ?). Doing so you warrant in 2016 sufficient 'last year' wood to pop up plenty of brebas. But you may always leave some selected branches for the usual pruning late winter/early spring (In Portugal will be Jan or Feb) and  these few branches will produce main crop mostly. I estimate these figs to be receptive in July and then you may try to act as'father' of a little flock of figs

Francisco
Portugal
rcantor

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Posted Reply with quote  #7 
Francisco, I had 2 main crop DK figs this year.  They tasted like caramel.  Since you have the wasp I'd leave a few branches to ripen main crop if you replace your dead tree. 
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Zone 6, MO

Wish list:
Galicia Negra, De La Reina - Pons, Genovese Nero - Rafed's, Sbayi, Souadi, Acciano, Any Rimada, Sodus Sicilian, any Bass, Pons or Axier fig, any great tasting fig.
Timo

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Posted Reply with quote  #8 

Today I went back to his old fig tree I posted about a few weeks ago. Almost all fruits have dropped by now, which confirms that it is a San Pedro type.

One of the neighbors told me that the tree is growing there probably since the fifties. According to her, the first crop ripens in June and the second crop never gets ripe.

I got permission to take some cuttings, which I will try to root next spring. I’m very happy with this new addition to my fig tree collection! I have been looking for Desert King for a while, but it’s difficult to find here in Europe. This DK look-alike will be perfect for extending the fig season with an early and large breba crop.

Thanks rcantor and Francisco for your thoughts and comments. If other members have an idea what variety this fig is, I would appreciate your thoughts.
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #9 
Timo,
Almost certain that tree to be a San Pedro fig, and most probably a DK or a strain of it
If you agree, once we have no restrictions on moving plant material inside the EU, I could send a dozen or so of the good Caprifigs by mid June next season.

Upon arrival, you would expose these  to some branches containing the main crop figs and follow up on what happens next. I  believe that yourself and the owner of that fig will have the opportunity of tasting some of the 2nd crop. (hope they shall be receptive by the time the Caprifigs get there .. the weather should be dry for 2 or 3 days)

Here, when we pick San Pedro  brebas like Bravina or Lampeira Preta (June).... it's good time to hang the Caprifigs on the tree.. but your climate is different.


Bob,
Sorry I did not comment on your suggestion. Thank you very much
Meanwhile found  a fellow not far from my place who promised a couple of DK scions to graft on a young and waiting Caprifig. With some control of the caprifig 2nd crop will get 'automatic' pollination in a couple of years

Francisco
Portugal
Timo

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Posted Reply with quote  #10 
Thanks for the kind offer, Francisco. I'm interested in trying this. If it works, I'm probably the first to grow caprified figs in Belgium :-)
If you don't get the DK scions from your friend, I can send you some cuttings from this tree if you like.
lampo

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Posted Reply with quote  #11 
Yes Timo, thanks
We shall work out the details, will send a PM soon

Francisco
Portugal
jdsfrance

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Posted Reply with quote  #12 
Hi Timo,
Don't quote me on that one: Your tree could be a "Jannot".
I bought a "Jannot" this year, so I'm still waiting for her to fruit :) .
But the fruit is supposed to be the same as DK. It was not clear if "Jannot" is a San Pedro or not.
Mine has some 5 figs still on. But they are staying small. I don't know if this is because of the age of the tree or because those fruits won't ripen.
I hope to learn more next year if my tree dares to fruit.
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Timo

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Posted Reply with quote  #13 
I can't find much information about Jannot figs on the internet, but the fruit indeed looks like DK. The websites however say that this variety has two crops (one in July and a second in the autumn). This is unlike DK or this tree. I hope your Jannot will produce ripe figs next year. Then it will become clear if it's a San Pedro or not.
Timo

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Posted Reply with quote  #14 

Today during lunch break I went out for a walk to the old fig tree I posted about last year. With temperatures of more than 35°C it was really hot outside, but my effort was rewarded with a dozen of fresh figs ready for picking. Some could have ripened a bit longer, but unfortunately I can’t go to the tree the coming days and the birds have also found this tree…

The figs tasted better than last year. They are sweet, not complex, with a pleasant taste. They are less juicy than last year, with a more concentrated, sugary flavor. Eating these figs makes you thirsty! My colleagues also liked them.

I found out that this tree was probably planted by Italian immigrants. I will do a little more research on Italian San Pedro figs, hoping to identify this fig. Or maybe someone on this forum has an idea what the name of this fig is after seeing these new pictures? To give you an idea of the size of the tree: the wall on the 1st picture is about 6m high.

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Smyfigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #15 
Hi, Timo:
Wow, good size tree and nice figs!  Not completely ripe yet but they are pretty. 
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cis4elk

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Posted Reply with quote  #16 
Just to add to this I have 2 DKs from 2 different sources, both are in their 2nd leaf and no fruit yet but the leaves are different. One of them is a tissue culture fig from Wellspring and  it has predominately 5 lobe leaves. So, we will see next year if it actually a DK or something different but I just wanted to add the possibility of DK or close relative having 5 lobed leaves. Now hopefully mine doesn't turn out to be something like LSU Purple!
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haslamhulme

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Posted Reply with quote  #17 
Timo,what a great find.Always amazes me to find orphaned fruit trees like this,especially figs as they are not so common in our European climate than for some other folks on this forum as we don't often have chance seedlings(unless from imported caprified figs).

Earlier this year whist out on my lunchtime walk(Timo I am glad to know I'm not the only one who will gladly use a lunch read to visit a fig tree)I found an unknown fig growing on wasteland at the bottom of a railway bridge in my city.I will have some difficulty getting to it as it is surrounded by trees and scrubland but will be sure to post up on the forum soon(I have some pics but they don't tell much,it seems to be putting on a couple of ft growth this year alone but all the figs are now hidden from view under the canopy.

Good luck identifying it,and if you find yourself with too many cutting I'm more than happy to spread the Unknown to te UK(we need good Breba's here too as most varieties won't manage a main crop here,even common types).

Just a note on Lampo's suggestion last year about using Caprifigs,aren't I right in thinking this would only work if you have the fig wasp?,I didn't think it made t this far north?,if he meant he will send you caprifigs figs containing the wasp who would then come out and caprify your fig tree that should work,that's how fig wasp was introduced to the US in the first place
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Haroon,Birmingham UK,Europe,USDA zone 8

Growing:B.Turkey,Jerusalem,V.Dauphine,Pd.Dalmatie W.Adriatic, RDB,Goute D'or,W.Marsailles,Bavarian Violet,Ali Pasha,Falls Gold,
Alma,W.Broggioto,Conadria,G.Ischia,Celeste,6 unknowns
Rooting:Mission,6 unknowns
Deceased:Conadria,last one is on the way out :(
haslamhulme

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Posted Reply with quote  #18 
Also I recall you saying it was hard to find desert King here in Europe.Two great nurseries I have found here are Reads(who do desert King)
https://www.readsnursery.co.uk/products/fig-cutting
And Rainsbrook
http://www.gb-online.co.uk/prestashop/category.php?id_category=118
Rainsbrook also do cuttings and they have many more varieties than those currently for sale so worth contacting for a list.

I don't think anyone replied to your comments about leaf shape changes, you were spot on,shape changes with age,but can also be due to lots of other factors,leaf shape can be even on the same branch on the same tree in the same season.A great way to see this in action is on a 1year cutting(did you manage to get around to that with this tree?)the oldest leaf(first) and closest to the base of the trunk will be least developed and not much lobed,as you go higher up the new stem the leaves seem to get more lobed generally,I don't think you really see the true leaf shape until you hit about 5th or 6th leaf after which they tend to get more consistent.On the large tree you posted the leaves which are most common and lobed are probably the best ones to go by,they do look like other desert King leaves I've seen posted on the forum,why not buy a true Desert King and some cuttings on your tree to compare?,if they turn out to be the same you have 2 great trees,if not I think you should call yours Timo,good name for a fig I think(stupid auto correct changed that to dog,sorry Timo,blame Apple please not me)
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Haroon,Birmingham UK,Europe,USDA zone 8

Growing:B.Turkey,Jerusalem,V.Dauphine,Pd.Dalmatie W.Adriatic, RDB,Goute D'or,W.Marsailles,Bavarian Violet,Ali Pasha,Falls Gold,
Alma,W.Broggioto,Conadria,G.Ischia,Celeste,6 unknowns
Rooting:Mission,6 unknowns
Deceased:Conadria,last one is on the way out :(
Timo

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Posted Reply with quote  #19 

Thank you all for your comments.

Calvin, I have read on this forum that there are probably several strains of DK. It will be interesting to see if your 2 trees turn out to be the same.

Haslamhulme, you are right. Discovering a “wild” fig tree in our countries is always something special. I even start to like the random seedlings, even though they will probably never bear fruit. These seedlings don’t suffer from pests or diseases. Rooted cuttings of these seedling trees could be excellent virus free rootstocks for grafting.

If you are interested in cuttings of my tree, send me a PM in the fall and I will see what I can do.

About the caprifigs: I don’t have fig wasps here (yet). But I’m following with great interest how other members of this forum are trying to introduce the wasp to their area.

Thanks for the info about the nurseries that sell DK, I will look at it. My rooted cuttings of this unknown tree mostly show 3-lobed leaves. No 5-lobed leaves yet.
Rewton

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Posted Reply with quote  #20 
Timo, since it is a green San Pedro type that presumably came from Italy, have you considered that it could be Filacciano Bianco?  Actually, I just looked at old pics and the leaves on FB tend to 3 lobed (or even 1 lobe) and the figs are sometimes more yellow than green when ripe.  So probably not.
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haslamhulme

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Posted Reply with quote  #21 
Hi Timo,thanks for the offer,may wait and see what I can do with my unknowns here,they I'd have something to exchange.The only "known" variety I have is an English Brown Tutkey but as I only pinched it this year(all new to me) I don't think I'll have any cutting from that this season.It will be interesting to see how your tree gets on,keep us posted.I think I'll get around to visiting my "wild" fig again soon and will post up,we're having an u usually warm summer here so unsure when it will ripen so going to keep an eye on it
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Haroon,Birmingham UK,Europe,USDA zone 8

Growing:B.Turkey,Jerusalem,V.Dauphine,Pd.Dalmatie W.Adriatic, RDB,Goute D'or,W.Marsailles,Bavarian Violet,Ali Pasha,Falls Gold,
Alma,W.Broggioto,Conadria,G.Ischia,Celeste,6 unknowns
Rooting:Mission,6 unknowns
Deceased:Conadria,last one is on the way out :(
Timo

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Posted Reply with quote  #22 

Haslamhulme, yes please post some pictures of your fig tree if you can. I’m curious to see what fig you have found.

Hi Steve, thanks for this good information! There seem to be a lot of green San Pedro figs in Italy. Condit has given a description of some of them. Filacciano is unfortunately not mentioned in his monography. Not many people grow this fig and there is little information available about Filacciano.
Judging by the pictures and info I have found after a quick search, my fig could very well be a Filacciano! It looks very similar to the fig that Dan (Donpaid) has shown us in these threads:

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/intro-and-short-fig-story-w-pictures-of-filacciano-7183533

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/fig-photos-2015-7424488

The skin, the pulp, the piriform shape, the eye and the scales, all seem to match! I hope Dan can give us his opinion too, although he doesn’t seem to be active on this forum anymore.

There are pictures of a Filacciano tree with 5-lobed leaves on this forum, so even the leaves seem to match.

I have also found some pictures of a variety named Petrelli, that looks similar to my fig. It’s not very clear however if this is a San Pedro fig. There is also little information available about this variety. At least one member seems to have this fig, but his fig looks different than mine:

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/fioroni-petrelli-breba-petrelli-8161902?highlight=petrelli&pid=1292729653

The land where I have found this old fig tree was property of the national railway company. It was used by retired railroad workers who used it to grow fruit and vegetables. A lot of them had Italian roots. That’s why I think this fig must be an Italian variety. After seeing these pictures of Filacciano, I think I may have found its name now. Many thanks to Steve!
Timo

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Posted Reply with quote  #23 
Here is one more picture of the unknown San Pedro fig that I found. The last brebas on the tree have a skin that is more like greenish yellow. Some figs are tinged with reddish brown. This doesn’t look like Desert King. Maybe Filacciano Bianco? I'll probably never know the name for sure, but that's OK for me. 

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Smyfigs

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Posted Reply with quote  #24 
Good looking figs with that nice yellow ting.  Nice find!
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Meg-Hardiness Zone 10a

Looking for...

Socorro Blk
Wuhan 
Jolly Tiger
Lamperia Preta
Herschtetten
St. Jean
Black Ischia

"The best way to show my gratitude is to accept everything, even my problems, with joy." ~ Mother Teresa  
"Do not pass by a man in need for you may be the hand of God to him." ~Proverbs 3:27~  
"He performs wonders that cannot be fathomed, miracles that cannot be counted." ~Job 5:4

 
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