Wilting of rooted cutting

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Blackfoot

Registered:1437593776
Posts: 112

Posted 1450812634	Reply with quote #1

Is anyone familiar with the specific cause of this.Is it a fungus or something else. Please look at the picturehttp://www.dotphoto.com/ViewAlbum.asp?AID=6724990&IID=274322209 One leaf got it first and then the other leaf. The edges curl and the leaf gets a grayish look right where it is dying. This is the second cutting it happened to. Those leaves will surely die. Thank you __________________ Zone 7A NJ Wish List: Nothing now. I am in way over my head.

hoosierbanana

Registered:1287901146
Posts: 2,186

Posted 1450813773	Reply with quote #2

That doesn't look like wilting. Wilting is caused by a loss of turgor pressure, the leaves would be drooped and the green stem soft. Are the cuttings closed up in that tub normally? __________________ 7a, DE

Blackfoot

Registered:1437593776
Posts: 112

Posted 1450814030	Reply with quote #3

Maybe wilting is the wrong word. Within 3-4 days or so the leaf kinda self destructs from the edges. These were originally in a closed bin but I then move them into a bin with no lid. If they show sign of stress I tape the rest of the coke bottle back on top and wean off the humidity by adding holes each day. __________________ Zone 7A NJ Wish List: Nothing now. I am in way over my head.

hoosierbanana

Registered:1287901146
Posts: 2,186

Posted 1450818722	Reply with quote #4

Yeah i'm not sure what to call it. It looks like tip-burn. __________________ 7a, DE

Dave

Registered:1312388324
Posts: 1,482

Posted 1450818867	Reply with quote #5

look like to much humidity __________________ Connecticut - Zone 6B Wish List - Bordissot negra rimada

figpig_66

Registered:1416870358
Posts: 2,678

Posted 1450818926	Reply with quote #6

What is your light source? If irs unfiltered light were as before it was filtered through clear plastic or anything else you may have burn. Pull light further away from container. __________________ RICHIE BONI HICKORY LOUISIANA ZONE 8B WARM HUMID WINRERS ARE VERY MILD LOW 20'S BUT WARMS RIGHT UP DURING THE DAY. SUMMER IS EXTREMELY HOT & HUMID 100 degrees 100% humidity fig tree grow like crazy but some split from rain & humidity Wish list. Col de dame blanc Col de rimada Lsu numbered figs

Blackfoot

Registered:1437593776
Posts: 112

Posted 1450829979	Reply with quote #7

Appreciate the replies. Well, it was a cutting which started to leaf out in the coir. I don't know if that has anything to do with it. Too much humidity? Maybe, but same humidity as the other cuttings. I don't really think its burn from the light. They are 6500K t-5 and a good 6-7 inches away and it didn't manifest itself until 4-5 days after it was put under the light. __________________ Zone 7A NJ Wish List: Nothing now. I am in way over my head.

figpig_66

Registered:1416870358
Posts: 2,678

Posted 1450833297	Reply with quote #8

The only thing else is,soil is to wet. Roots die off and no moisture reachs leaves. Push soil away from cutting at soil line. Scratch cutting beneath soil line. If bark rolls off cutting will die. If this is the case cut bottom of cutting off little by little till is good. __________________ RICHIE BONI HICKORY LOUISIANA ZONE 8B WARM HUMID WINRERS ARE VERY MILD LOW 20'S BUT WARMS RIGHT UP DURING THE DAY. SUMMER IS EXTREMELY HOT & HUMID 100 degrees 100% humidity fig tree grow like crazy but some split from rain & humidity Wish list. Col de dame blanc Col de rimada Lsu numbered figs

jdsfrance

Registered:1376988473
Posts: 2,591

Posted 1450860717	Reply with quote #9

Hi, Looks like the cutting was pushed and now is depleted and crumbles . Some call that "cutting sudden death". What you can try is cut the leaves. Put the cutting in a drier environment to slow it. And hope it will have enough energy to sprout new buds in a more reasonable environment. I often get that when growing cuttings this time of the year. That is the reason why I reverted to in-season-growing - beginning mid-march in my Zone7. This time of the year I only use one or two own cuttings that I would throw to the compost pile normally ... to just mess them up most of the time ... Currently, I have 3 in the basement - another one still in the flat. Hopefully they'll get some rest and can sprout back next March ... Hopefully ... __________________ ------------------------ Climate from -25°C to + 35°C Only cold hardy figtrees can make it here

johnny_k

Registered:1475955071
Posts: 49

Posted 1482439018	Reply with quote #10

i think im having the same problem- sudden death. it was growing fine and then, in one day, this- i may have too much water on it, but i have tried to be very careful and no other cuttings are showing these signs. __________________ -- Johnny Ft Leavenworth, KS (6A) Bastrop, TX (8B) Huffman, TX (9A) I don't know figs from Adam (™)

vito12831

Registered:1256950611
Posts: 840

Posted 1482447221	Reply with quote #11

That happens to me every year, one day it looks like a picture perfect plant the next day it starts to droop and it's down hill all the way, Vito

Dave

Registered:1312388324
Posts: 1,482

Posted 1482447857	Reply with quote #12

I was thinking the next time this happens giving them a half dose of viagra???? __________________ Connecticut - Zone 6B Wish List - Bordissot negra rimada

johnny_k

Registered:1475955071
Posts: 49

Posted 1482448519	Reply with quote #13

well, i guess the good news is, it might not be my fault. i am like a helicopter parent right now- that cant be good, especially when one does as mine did. viagra, huh? i dont think it could make it any worse. do any of these ever come back? __________________ -- Johnny Ft Leavenworth, KS (6A) Bastrop, TX (8B) Huffman, TX (9A) I don't know figs from Adam (™)

Dave

Registered:1312388324
Posts: 1,482

Posted 1482456780	Reply with quote #14

I have one or two plants that are doing the same thing let it dry out then water it sparely I use a spray bottle you should be fine water will kill it __________________ Connecticut - Zone 6B Wish List - Bordissot negra rimada

johnny_k

Registered:1475955071
Posts: 49

Posted 1482457333	Reply with quote #15

thanks dave. i'll try that. __________________ -- Johnny Ft Leavenworth, KS (6A) Bastrop, TX (8B) Huffman, TX (9A) I don't know figs from Adam (™)

Dave

Registered:1312388324
Posts: 1,482

Posted 1482457672	Reply with quote #16

trust me Johnny it will work it took me a long time to realize dry cuttings do better than wet cuttings __________________ Connecticut - Zone 6B Wish List - Bordissot negra rimada

jrdewhirst

Registered:1420324567
Posts: 91

Posted 1482460050	Reply with quote #17

Quote: Originally Posted by jdsfrance Hi, Looks like the cutting was pushed and now is depleted and crumbles FWIW, I think that this is the right diagnosis. The leaves seem to have outgrown the roots. __________________ Joe D

johnny_k

Registered:1475955071
Posts: 49

Posted 1482463571	Reply with quote #18

Dang. It's hard to let them go dry. I keep wanting to put water on them when ever the top gets dry. i do agree that the roots were probably outpaced by the leaves. i bit off a little much this year and have been moving the cuttings from the the high humidity box to the grow area faster than i wanted to. i'v been selecting based on root growth, but as the cuttings come out of the coir, i am now having to chose less than ideal figs to move over there. this has been a great help! johnny __________________ -- Johnny Ft Leavenworth, KS (6A) Bastrop, TX (8B) Huffman, TX (9A) I don't know figs from Adam (™)

TorontoJoe

Registered:1445889447
Posts: 257

Posted 1482498965	Reply with quote #19

I have a working theory on roots being outpaced by leaves. I had a few that looked pretty sad. I put it down to the mixes being short on nutrients and not enough left in the cutting for supply. A very diluted liquid fertilizer fixed things right up. For this to work I assume there would need to be some roots in place. Your problem cuttings, like mine, seem to be rather narrow and short. This was the case for mine as well.....Makes me think that the smaller cuttings need a bit of help. Or it's something else entirely.... Happy Christmas! __________________ Zone 6 Guildwood Village - Toronto, Canada Seeking: Panache, Really great unknowns

jrdewhirst

Registered:1420324567
Posts: 91

Posted 1482501309	Reply with quote #20

in my limited experience, thinner cuttings are less reliable. The apparent reason is a lack of resources. A cutting that puts all its energy into making leaves may not have enough left over for good roots. Once the internal resources are exhausted, the meager roots are incapable of meeting demand from the robust leaves. So we should probably do what we can to suppress leaf growth and encourage root growth until the roots are well established. For this reason, I believe (but can't prove) that it's best to start cuttings in the dark and, if possible, to use bottom heat to keep the roots (rooting medium) warmer than the leaves (air). Similarly, the top of the cutting should be kept humid until the roots are sufficiently developed to provide adequate water. __________________ Joe D

hoosierbanana

Registered:1287901146
Posts: 2,186

Posted 1482509654	Reply with quote #21

When a cutting collapses like that it is because the bottom has rotted. __________________ 7a, DE

johnny_k

Registered:1475955071
Posts: 49

Posted 1482512409	Reply with quote #22

TJ and JD, Spot on. I think i pushed this one too fast. the roots are just starting to show in the cup. i have been feeding with a dilute 1-0.5-1 "rooting enhancer" and providing bottom heat. i will say, i have not been particularly proficient providing a dark environment during initial rooting. my tupperware boxes allow some light through the gap between the media and the lid. i have planned to tape them off, but have been achieving much success until now, i just got lazy. i have noticed- in my very limited observations- that thinner cuttings grow roots faster, but the thicker cuttings, though slower to start, grow more roots and stronger roots and fewer leaves. But i could be wrong- this is my first year growing, so i cant speak to the survival rate, but so far i am having near 100% success with rooting. i think one of my reasons for the great success rate is buying only from member of this and the other forum and am reading and listening to the experiences of the members. Still no sign of recovery in the wilted cutting, but i continue to monitor. __________________ -- Johnny Ft Leavenworth, KS (6A) Bastrop, TX (8B) Huffman, TX (9A) I don't know figs from Adam (™)

hoosierbanana

Registered:1287901146
Posts: 2,186

Posted 1482513293	Reply with quote #23

There are plenty of roots showing in that cup, they are cut off from the top though because of rot. Were the cuttings trimmed to just below the bottom node? Could be a pathogen entering through the pith. __________________ 7a, DE

jrdewhirst

Registered:1420324567
Posts: 91

Posted 1482513864	Reply with quote #24

Johnny -- Some people put them on top of a warm appliance, like a fridge. I've got mine (in damp sphagnum moss in baggies) in a warm, dark closet. The closet has got some electrical gear that generates just enough heat. __________________ Joe D

Blackfoot

Registered:1437593776
Posts: 112

Posted 1482518087	Reply with quote #25

I am convinced that sometimes you can do everything right and this still happens. That doesn't stop it from hurting, particularly if it's an expensive cutting, but it may be something about that cutting and not your fault. I had this happen with one particular variety, every single one ended up dying like this. __________________ Zone 7A NJ Wish List: Nothing now. I am in way over my head.

johnny_k

Registered:1475955071
Posts: 49

Posted 1482520894	Reply with quote #26

i cant remember were it was cut. this cutting is from one of the trees that initially spurred me to grow figs, so i knew nothing about taking cuttings or growing them when i acquired it. i had to begin drinking from the firehose to learn more. unfortunately, these particular fig cuttings weren't afforded the optimal start. i am feeling good about my chances though. I took 3-4 cuttings from six trees and so far, i have 13(12 now) doing well from 21 cuttings. my intent is to have one from each tree. i know i have lost one tree, but the cuttings were so thin and small i didnt give them much hope. and, i took the cuttings with virtually no knowledge of what i was doing. Not the best percentages, but, they all suffered through poor handling before i knew better. there are still five cuttings that are sitting in coir. one looks like it might start to root soon and the other four are just maintaining- no change to appearance. im hoping that eventually, they will wake up and go. kind of a shame i didnt know more. after gaining a better understanding of how to provide the optimal growing environment, my purchased cuttings are doing very well. Wow! The input is faster than i can react to! Thanks for all the great information. Exactly why i love this forum and read every day. Here is my current set up. The box on the right is where i start the cuttings in cups. Once the roots are established, i move to the right. Eventually, i will put lights in the bottom left. I had to strip the lights out for a lack of room and move everything to the right box. The smaler box on the left has much more light, heat and humidity. The 50W cool white LED is a monster. I have a heating pad under the tray and the temps are 83 on the roots and 76 on the leaves The tupperware in direct contact with the top of the box is at 83 degrees. Is that too warm? The top tupperware is at 80. I think that is ok. The box on the right is a little cooler, with a root temp of 78 degrees and a leaf temp of 71. I also have a heating pad under the tray. The lighting runs much cooler, with a larger heatsink. There are 10 cool white LEDs and 5 blue (460 nm) with an additional 24" full spectrum aquatic plant fluorescent bulb. i stack a tupperware box between the heat sink that runs about 78 degrees. The two plants not on the heating pad are at 71 degrees. The wall is below ground and radiates at 70 degrees, The humidity is noticeably lower than the root growth box, since it is not sealed all the way around. This is where my wilted cutting lives (second from left in the front row). I read on here recently about bottom watering and think i may begin doing so. This may stop my over-watering and also add humidity. Although my first cups only have one hole, I took note of writers on this forum and now punch several holes in the sides as well as the bottom to better aerate the soil. Any feedback on my set up, system or procedures is always greatly appreciated. __________________ -- Johnny Ft Leavenworth, KS (6A) Bastrop, TX (8B) Huffman, TX (9A) I don't know figs from Adam (™)

hoosierbanana

Registered:1287901146
Posts: 2,186

Posted 1482525994 · Edited	Reply with quote #27

There is not a consensus on how to handle cuttings, but here is how I do it. Make the initial cut to remove from the tree midway between nodes, leaving sections of exposed pith at first. Wipe off sap, wrap in plastic wrap bag them and store in the crisper. After storage, wash cuttings with soap and warm water to remove any residual sap and microorganisms that may be growing on it, soak overnight submerged in warm water if they have dried from a long storage period. Make a fresh cut below the bottom node, ideally grazing the bottom edge of the leaf scar, this removes any fungi that have begun to enter into the cutting during storage and removes almost all of the pith. Since you are rooting in coir you can see that most cuttings will root at the lowest point first, that is because plant hormones migrate there. If the roots form on a section with open pith there is a chance that microorganisms will begin to attack the wood through the open pith and cut off the flow of water to the leaves. If the cutting also has roots above that bottom section it can recover, but some cuttings only send out roots at the bottom. The best way to handle it is to remove the pith, the solid portion of wood through the node is much more resistant to pathogens. Large diameter cuttings have a smaller pith ratio and seem less vulnerable to this problem, or at least are better able to handle it because they have more wood. https://www.ourfigs.com/forum/figs-home/1513-why-cut-just-below-the-bottom-node __________________ 7a, DE

PeterC

Registered:1442348302
Posts: 286

Posted 1482526020	Reply with quote #28

those look nice and healthy!! __________________ Growing: Sal's Corleone, Brooklyn Unknown, Peters Honey, White Kadoda, Brown Turkey, Black Mission, Deanna, Green Irchia, Hollier, Sals E Wanted: A very cold hardy fig, Hardy Chicago or Celeste Zone 7 Long Island

johnny_k

Registered:1475955071
Posts: 49

Posted 1482533702	Reply with quote #29

Thanks Peter. I think ive veen somewhat lucky, especially with the unk italians when i didnt know squat about growing figs. I still dont know mich, but i keep learning. Hoosier Banana, what do yoh think about the temps im growing at. I would assume that 80s is ok, since figs do so well in texas, but i dont want to cool them. Thank you for the how-to on starting cuttings. I had never heard of removing the pith. I still have 14 cuttings in the fridge to go, so i will give this a try. __________________ -- Johnny Ft Leavenworth, KS (6A) Bastrop, TX (8B) Huffman, TX (9A) I don't know figs from Adam (™)

hoosierbanana

Registered:1287901146
Posts: 2,186

Posted 1482537136	Reply with quote #30

Your setup looks great. Just keep paying close attention to your plants needs and you will do fine. Temperature controls growth rate so a little warmer will speed the whole process up if you are itching to get them moved to larger containers, and vice-versa. __________________ 7a, DE

johnny_k

Registered:1475955071
Posts: 49

Posted 1482544008	Reply with quote #31

thanks. i am itching to get them in bigger pots. more dirt, more room for error. __________________ -- Johnny Ft Leavenworth, KS (6A) Bastrop, TX (8B) Huffman, TX (9A) I don't know figs from Adam (™)

TorontoJoe

Registered:1445889447
Posts: 257

Posted 1482546577	Reply with quote #32

Don't be so hard on yourself. You've got a great setup. And I don't know anyone who bats 1000. I know that doesn't mean much when it's a cutting that's important to you. I'm still not sold on the "root in the dark" thing. I haven't noticed a difference either way. Quite correct that thicker cuttings are more reliable...This is why I'm big on fertilizing.....especially the skinny ones. Regarding bigger pots. I think this saved a couple of mine. If there's a problem with the soil and the cutting is on it's way out....it may be best to gently remove it and start in fresh mix. I managed to save a couple of near-death cuttings this way. __________________ Zone 6 Guildwood Village - Toronto, Canada Seeking: Panache, Really great unknowns

johnny_k

Registered:1475955071
Posts: 49

Posted 1482599333	Reply with quote #33

So, Is there a consensus? leave it in the pot and let it dry or pull it out and start over? Im open to either at this point. __________________ -- Johnny Ft Leavenworth, KS (6A) Bastrop, TX (8B) Huffman, TX (9A) I don't know figs from Adam (™)

hoosierbanana

Registered:1287901146
Posts: 2,186

Posted 1482603462	Reply with quote #34

Are the stems stiff like a healthy cutting or have they shriveled or gone rubbery? My guess is there is no turgor pressure at all in that cutting. Usually when the leaves wilt and dry out but stay attached it is a sign of total collapse, if it was less severe the cutting would drop them. __________________ 7a, DE

johnny_k

Registered:1475955071
Posts: 49

Posted 1482610756	Reply with quote #35

the leaves are more rubbery- they wont easily pull off. the stem still looks ok; no shriveling or shrinkage. i guess that's not a good sign. __________________ -- Johnny Ft Leavenworth, KS (6A) Bastrop, TX (8B) Huffman, TX (9A) I don't know figs from Adam (™)

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