I got a call from a USDA officer a couple of days ago.  He inquired about some fig cuttings that I had gotten on eBay this winter.  He said that the cuttings had come from outside the country and were prohibited.  He was required to seize and destroy them.  I had successfully rooted the cuttings and set them out in the ground.  The plants were dug up, put in a plastic bag and he took them to be destroyed.

The officer was a nice enough guy and was just doing his job, but he still took my plants.  Apparently the seller did not have the proper PPQ permits to ship plant material into the USA, and neither did I.

I knew that shipping plants with soil could be a problem.  Maybe even bare root plants.  But apparently even shipping cuttings is a big no-no.

I just thought that you guys should know.



Dale

Danielsville, GA, Zone 8a/7b

Dale, thanks for the heads up.

You are required to have an import permit through APHIS and the cuttings must be sent with a phytosanitary certificate and then you must keep them in quarantine for a period of time specified on your import permit (2 years, I believe).  Cuttings from Canada are not required to undergo a quarantine period but all other foreign origins do.

If you don't mind, who was the seller? Just to make sure we know not to purchase from him...

So I should tell my wife to NOT bring me cuttings from the South of France when she comes home?

The seller was goldenpera_com .  The cuttings were shipped from Turkey.



Dale

James, she could.  It's called smuggling.


Dale

I live 4 miles from Alabama where I have a cousin which used to receive citrus plants for me from California which could not be shipped into the state of Florida. You want to make someone mad this is the way. I no longer do it having escaped fines and imprisonment barely. The USDA can get hot, and will be aware of what is received by you when you think they don't know.

I thought I read on here somewhere that bringing cuttings back was legal b/c the customs form doesn't ask anything about "sticks", only plants, fruits, vegetables, etc.  Since a cutting is basically just a stick, I don't see a problem but then again, that strictly MY opinion and in no way am I suggesting it should be done.  Maybe she could take the cuttings to the airport and then if they don't allow her to bring them with her, well at least she tried.

Tamar: Still want cuttings from Blightey? Looks like that PM was correct. Shame - would have loved to oblige any requests.

Jake aren't you the one who tried to tell people how to smuggle cuttings in from Italy?

No smuggling here, but I believe you (The_celt) claimed you had had a permit to do so!  I see you are somewhat back after leaving in a huff, guess the other forum did not take off.

Re Jules' post - Can't this issue of the legality of 'sticks' be settled once & for all by writing the USDA directly and asking the simple question: if no roots, soil, fruit or foliage, is it still prohibited, also bearing in mind Alan's post re being a relatively disease-free genus and the virtual impossibility of introducing a new contagion/pathogen/pest etc? My guess is that they might come back with the reply: what about initials?

I got all the proper paperwork from the Canadian government to import bare root plants from France last fall, the problem was a couple of the trees were over the 10 mm diametre, I was really upset because they seized and destroyed said plants, when I looked into it from their reason why it was because of a long horned beetle that bores into trees and destroys them.  Once I saw that I was no longer upset and the person I bought trees from was surprised but resent the trees that were seized, the trees in question were 11-12 mm diametre but the beetles could still have laid eggs in them and then we could have had them released all over Canada then into the states, I highly doubt they had the eggs in there but even still I am happy that I went through the proper paper work, I could not have received them from the seller without it in the first place so while Canada is strict, they explain why and for good reason and luckily I don't have to have a quarantine on the trees received thankfully, I don't know what they would have done if I didn't have the paper work.

The USDA officer was a nice guy, but I would not want to make him mad.  He said that it was my responsibility to see that all of their requirements were met.  He did say that I was not in danger of having charges brought against me.

Jules, what I had were "sticks".  The term is "plant material" when you fill out the customs form.  The "sticks" were just mailed to me in an envelope from Turkey.  Five months later I got a call from a USDA officer.

When I told him that I did not think that there was a problem with bringing in cuttings from outside the US because I had ordered daffodil bulbs from Holland before.  You should have seen him wheel around.  It took me five minutes to calm him down and assure him that all of the phytosanitary certificates were included years ago when I got the bulbs.  I kept my mouth shut from that point on.

I think about all of the fruits and vegetables from all over the world in my local super market and wonder about a hand full of "sticks" that I got in the mail.

Who knows, I may have drones and satellites watching my place from now on.


Dale

Georgia

Back in February I had a member here from Hungary harassing me to send him Pomegranate cuttings and he would send me fig cuttings in exchange.......he just would not take no for an answer.  This is why I said no to him and kept saying no..he finally got the idea I was not going to budge and gave up.  

WillC,

I got into a short exchange with I suspect the same guy on the GardenWeb Fruits&Orchard forum

A few months back the guy from China had some really interesting figs, I really would have liked to try some of them, chickened out, wisened up, or something like that, I don't need the hassle, how is the investigating officer to know which one is which, or maybe they take all your trees.

It ain't worth it!!,  Just saying!

Good point, Danny.  If they don't know which is which, I'd be afraid that take all 'em.  

Dale,
I just re read your thread and I guess the question is: How did they know you had done that?  I am just curious about this, I would give them whatever they asked for and would not question or fight about it because I knew it was wrong.  Just curious how the right of seizure without process applies.  Really question my sanity in asking this in a public forum but I was curious.

According to my PM, they can and do seize your entire inventory if the offending items can't be ID'd. And as for how they know - maybe they monitor this forum? Prism? NSA?

Loquat1,

It has been settled many times, but too many people just don't get it.

You have to have an Post-Entry Quarantine Permit from USDA APHIS for all fig plant material, period. All shipments must be accompanied by a Phytosanitary Certificate from the country of origin, period. The post-entry quarantine period is 2 years, but for reasons I won't go into, it usually take 2-1/2 to 3 years in quarantine, in reality. All shipments of fig cuttings from Europe, and probably other locations, as well, must be no larger in diameter than 10 mm, no exceptions until some USDA requirements are met, and that will probably not be any time soon.

I have been there, done that. I had a shipment destroyed this year because there was no Phytosanitary Certificate. Shipper said it had one, but it did not. So, Bye-Bye cuttings, period.

yes, invest money in taking people's fig tree away while there are kids shooting each other in inner cities. our tax money in action.. urgh.. 

BULL! GWB and the Reps put NSA together and for good reason.

[QUOTE=alanmercieca]Obama is responsible for all this[/QUOTE]

Wow Danny, what an insightful (and inciteful) question. It is often the case that a citizen is required to assert his rights. However, once asserted, one runs the risk of getting an attitude adjustment. Any driver out there ever get stopped and asked to follow a pen tip with his eyes. How many say, "Officer, I respectfully decline to do that"?  And what do you think would happen if you did? A lot of it is in the approach the officer takes, too. They don't often ask for permission, so the question never comes up and most of us are cowed by all the trappings of authority, too. they have badges and guns, after all.

pitangadiego - Well, that's pretty conclusive then. Guess I'm gonna have to disappoint Sara as well, if she should
ever deign to visit this forum again.

Alan - I think you can add mail to that list. After all, that's a dead giveaway as far as your address is concerned.
 

Seriously, it's just not a good idea to be trying to smuggle in plant materials.  I know people will do it anyways, but we have had multiple agricultural and wildlife disasters from importing serious pests by accident, and we're facing serious difficulty from citrus greening and laurel wilt.  It ain't about the figs people, it's about anything that hops on for the trip, even if it doesn't even *like* figs.

For all intents and purposes, we have all of the varieties that matter, which we could grow.  Only people who want Smyrna figs have anything like an excuse to try for new importations.  It's not like there is a Dekopon citrus hybrid version of a fig out there, waiting to be imported.

I support the efforts, so many of our pests came in via illegal transport of something.  It takes so long to get preventative measures in place and then it is almost impossible to amend them.  Overall, it's a tough mission and I choose to err on the safe side.

Just curious, but how does the USDA handle seeds (not from figs but from other plants) shipped from abroad? I have always seen seeds for plants I want online for sale from Asia and Europe. To date, however, I have never ordered any, as I was worried about possible restrictions.

But as Emeril  likes to say GWB "Kicked it up" to unheard of levels and for good reason. And I don't remember many complaints from Reps during GWB's reign, only during Obama's.

And Peter King is right!

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCgIuIfYeYc[/video]



[QUOTE=alanmercieca]KK - Obama could have gotten rid of these illegal things that GWB did, instead he's making laws that make things even worst. A majority of reps do not like the the illegal NSA. Speaking of the NSA it has been in operation since November 4, 1952, Bush JR had nothing to do with it.[/QUOTE]

Jon if the seller has a phyo you are fine.

[QUOTE=alanmercieca]When the republicans realized that they were being spied on too, they changed their tune very fast, I actually hate thinking/talking about politics, it's a bunch of puppets who will do whatever it takes to get what they want[/QUOTE]

Lets remember President Bush authorized the taps on domestic phone calls and e-mails shortly after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The surveillance machine was already grinding away for longer than Obama has been President. I don’t remember Reps complaining until Obama came along.

The USDA followed the eBay records. EBay is not responsible as they are only a conduit. The seller and the purchaser are the ones that are accountable.

I know of all the pests that have been introduced. I don't fault the USDA at all. Rules is rules.

So, lets summarize for clarity, last week GWB said

“I put that program in place to protect the country. One of the certainties was that civil liberties were guaranteed,” Bush said, flanked by his smiling wife Laura. "I think there needs to be a balance, and as the president explained, there is a proper balance."

http:// http://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/07/george_w_bush_defends_nsa_spyi.html

And that’s Obama’s fault? So you must also think Iraq was Obama’s fault and Afghanistan was Obama’s fault and the worst times since the Great depression was Obama’s fault?


Right?

Oh Yeah, 1 more thing, you must also think this is Obama's fault

Did Obama's claim credit or one of those "other" nasty Dems?

And lets not forget the 33,000 US jewels injured in Iraq/Afghanistan


[QUOTE=alanmercieca]At least two different politicians took credit for creating the internet too, I forget who they where because I just wrote them off as the common fibbing politicians, Bush changed already existing laws, and then Obama went and passed laws that further changed those laws, that is how, they are called amendments, they can bypass, and void the Constitution, and they do, the Constitution has become worthless, like the USD has become[/QUOTE]

How bout those figs?????

No matter our differences - Figs bring us together

[QUOTE=alanmercieca]Dennis - are you trying to make us drool, just kidding[/QUOTE]

I never intended to start a political discussion.

Mean while, back at the fig ranch--------


Dale

Georgia

[QUOTE=pitangadiego]Loquat1,
I have been there, done that. I had a shipment destroyed this year because there was no Phytosanitary Certificate. Shipper said it had one, but it did not. So, Bye-Bye cuttings, period.[/QUOTE]

That sucks.  I hope you got your $$ back or a new shipment.  I hope it wasn't a bunch of really cool figs from Baud or Pons.

[QUOTE=KK]No matter our differences - Figs bring us together

[QUOTE=alanmercieca]Dennis - are you trying to make us drool, just kidding[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Figs figs figs WE love FIGS!
Nom nom nom!

:-)

Also visited by the feds. I've posted this numerous times. 


ATTN; John,
I wasn't paying much attention one day and bought 20 kaffir lime seeds for $3 on Ebay. I didn't see that they were coming in from Thailand and when I got them I was pretty shocked -- I mean seriously, how can you make any money shipping seeds from that far away and only charging 3 BUCKS. 
Well the seeds were bad and they all rotted. 6 months after the buy I got a visit from the USDA. They had driven all the way from Baltimore - 2 to 3 hours each way.
Anyway the officer took me at my word that there was nothing left as they had rotted and I'd thrown them out. The officer was a nice guy but he was no BS and it was not easy convincing him. He told me he was within his rights to take all my plants and that if he thought I was lying to him that's exactly what he was going to do. It was not fun.

Alan - For what it's worth, one of the politicians who claimed credit for creating the Internet was VP Al Gore, author of An Inconvenient Truth. To give him some credit, that was a half-decent effort to alert the world to the dangers of global warming, etc.

The 'descent' of this thread into a political debate is actually quite interesting - that's exactly what happened between me and the PM'er who warned me about the legal implications of sending cuttings to the US. It even got quite heated at one point, but we still managed to stay on good terms. I hope he won't mind if I now reveal that it was in fact mgginva.

It proves a point tho - some of us may hate thinking or talking about politics, but that does not seem to make any difference to the increasing inroads it makes into our lives, one way or another. Even when it comes down to such a 'trivial' matter as fig cuttings of all things. I mean, who woudda thunk it? And Shah8's point about joyriders is a good one. I remember a story years ago about a grocer who found a tarantula in a crate of bananas. As far as I know, bananas are not on its menu.

As I said to my PM'er, if you want to reclaim a govt. that's genuinely of the people, for the people, and by the people, then you have to undergo a 2nd revolution. He didn't like my suggestion.

Badges? We don't need no stinkin badges.

Costas
- you kiss and tell. Nothing is exact. If you didn't have such crazy ideas about government . . . ahh haa haa haa ha.
But seriously -- thx for the emails and I'll write to you tomorrow.

And just forget tarantulas -- they are harmless. The scary spider that can be found in bananas is the Wandering Spider or Banana Spider -- the hottest spider there is - big, aggressive, active hunter and deadly. And they've found a lot more then one!! The things more venomous the the Funnel Web.

Alan
-- we sure do have a strange government. But -- the thing is seeds can carry some scary things I've come to learn. They should at least be soaked in 5% bleach to kill bacteria.

mgginva - You mean such crazy ideas as genuine democracy, accountability, honesty, transparency, the public interest/good, selflessness etc etc? Yeah, I guess you get what you deserve if you think those are dispensable traits. When you find yourself living in a police state someday soon, I promise not to say 'I told you so', or visit you in prison.

But seriously (ahem), you're welcome, and glad to see you're still with us. Plse keep me posted on your progress.

As for the tarantulas, I'm aware they are fairly innocuous. My point was that if something that size can hitch a ride, then who knows what other unwelcome guests can cross borders undetected?

PS Wandering Spider - More venomous than the Brown Recluse?

PPS xxxxxx
         xxxx
          xx

Costas, geez buddy the bait was tiny. And as far as I'm concerned we live in a police state now. It could be worse but that's only a matter of time at this rate. I just took a break to get breakfast (cherries, prune/carrot juice) and the TV was on and the talking heads were saying that every single thing you do on the internet is watched and monitored and recorded and they were saying this like that's normal or acceptable!!! The thing is you, too, need to hop off your soap box as your cell will be right next to mine. 

As far as crossing borders -- the future will no longer have borders. It will be the battle of the invasive species. Phillip Dick was right about his greatest prediction being the ecological collapse of the earth. My Crumb drawing of him speaks. We just need to decide when this collapse will happen -- ooops too late --  the 6th great world wide mass extinction is already here. 

Politically - once the rich have finished remolding society and there is once again only the rich and the poor there will be no need for national borders as all movement will be controlled by the government. Everything will be a border. 

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When people fear the government there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson - grower of figs.

mgginva - Yeah, my bait was always bigger than yours (!), which is why you shoudda seen it a mile away. Irony
still a stranger to you lot over the pond?

As for being cell mates, I look fwd to it. I'm too old to have any fear of govt., no matter how tyrannical. I woudda
laughed in Stalin's face - nothing deflates or emasculates them more than that, and it's the one thing they can't take away from
me whilst I'm still alive.

If they have to torture me to extract a 'confession' or make me compliant, then as far as I'm concerned they have already abandoned
the dialogue and lost the 'debate'. When you no longer fear them, their power is gone.

Plse re-read my post above re spider ?'n.

Uh-oh. Sounds like bait envy. Just a thought on ecological collapse: Even though I'm not familiar with Phillip Dick, I think there is an ebb and flow we're missing out on. Remember, the great collpase of the dinosaurs let rise the mammals (and maybee the birds). So in the loooong run, it may not be so bad. In the short run, it will be terrible.

Not to stir up the political debate again, but this article makes loss of cuttings seem pale by comparison. Sssshhhhhh, we are not alone:

http://news.yahoo.com/google-pressure-cookers-backpacks-visit-feds-140900667.html

I came on a little strong last night. I spend way too much time on political boards and I kinda forgot where I was. No hard feelings :)

[QUOTE=alanmercieca]I both love, and hate how the USDA operates, then again the government has been designed for corporations, not for the middle class, or for the poor people, and understanding their rules is like learning to be a lawyer.[/QUOTE]