[QUOTE=Aaron4USA]Aaron D,
I am planning to freeze about 10Ls of stringent type in my freezer chest, for off season cravings. They stay solid like that for as long as you want them to.
I have to go to Super King Market for those.

Andy,
thans for the link, what's an amazing variety those Korean Persimmons are... wow. I had never seen anything in that color in my life.

Here's what I was buying today, with my kids, at a nearby ethnic store, where I buy our cold-cuts usually.
Not bad for a dollar if you ask me.

 [/QUOTE]

Wholely crap. A pile of persimmons! They are individually wrapped and boxed up here in metro NYC and they are $1-$2.50 or maybe more each.

Calvin, no I'm not growing persimmons here... Yet. I know some others that are trying, and not having much luck. I am enjoying the fuyu at the local Asian market for $0.88 per pound though. Aaron, the blue ones are pretty cool. Checkout England's list of scion as well if you are thinking of grafting some. I think they will do custom grafts too.

Great video, Aaron.  I am growing Fuyu (still have some hanging on the tree) but planted a Saijo last year, an astringent type that I want to use for drying.  Saijo means "the best" (or something like that) in Japanese and a friend that dried several different varieties a few years ago said they came out the best.  He hangs them up inside his house (extra bedroom, I believe) to dry them. I had no idea that soaking in 38F water for 24 hours was a method to remove the astringent taste, I will give that a try.  I have a chest freezer that I have hooked up to an auxiliary thermostat which I can set to whatever temperature I want (for storing cuttings, fruits, etc. while some use for brewing beer).

[QUOTE=HarveyC]Great video, Aaron.  I am growing Fuyu (still have some hanging on the tree) but planted a Saijo last year, an astringent type that I want to use for drying.  Saijo means "the best" (or something like that) in Japanese and a friend that dried several different varieties a few years ago said they came out the best.  He hangs them up inside his house (extra bedroom, I believe) to dry them. I had no idea that soaking in 38F water for 24 hours was a method to remove the astringent taste, I will give that a try.  I have a chest freezer that I have hooked up to an auxiliary thermostat which I can set to whatever temperature I want (for storing cuttings, fruits, etc. while some use for brewing beer).[/QUOTE]

Astringent persimmons will not be astringent when they are fully ripe says the interesting link below.

http://www.crfg.org/pubs/ff/persimmon.html

Rich, I'm aware of that and that's how we would sometimes eat them, but I really prefer the texture when crisp.  I know some people like them fully ripe, but I kind of find them disgusting.

My son takes a bag lunch to school a few days a week and at this time of year he often takes Fuyu persimmon in his lunch.  I cut them up into wedges for him and will sometime include extra as he's got some friends who acquired a taste for them.

[QUOTE=HarveyC]

Rich, I'm aware of that and that's how we would sometimes eat them, but I really prefer the texture when crisp.  I know some people like them fully ripe, but I kind of find them disgusting.

My son takes a bag lunch to school a few days a week and at this time of year he often takes Fuyu persimmon in his lunch.  I cut them up into wedges for him and will sometime include extra as he's got some friends who acquired a taste for them.

I can't remember who, but a new member from Long Island posted this past summer that he had some persimmons that were as large as softballs.  I'd like to see a photo of those and know more about them.

Here is a picture of my Hachiya. Like Paully's, it seems to bear heavily in alternate years. I also have a Chocolate and Fuyu (Jiro). I planted them a good distance from the Hachiya, as I prefer the Hachiya to be seedless. I am adding Saijo and Coffee Cake this winter. I dehydrate most, as it's easier to store, but I like the freezing idea.  

Has anyone had any experience rooting persimmon cuttings? What was your success rate? Do you use the same method you use to start fig cuttings?


Gary, really beautiful tree and a nice-sized crop! How far away did you have to plant your Hachiya to prevent cross pollination? 

Thank you, Ogorodnitsa. Say that 5 times fast:)) The Hachiya is about 10 years old, and the newer ones I am planting several hundred feet away. Not sure if that much distance is necessary, but I have the room, and it's worked so far.

Congratulations, Gary! Very nice Hachiya!
I see a lot of low hanging fruit. You have no animals on the property?
You are a lucky guy!

Ogorodnitsa, my success rooting the cuttings has been so far 0%.
The only thing I managed to accomplish was to grow some leaves but I couldn't get any roots out.

Thanks Igor. There are plenty of critters, and the quail and robins just let me know that the fruit is ready. I picked a 5 gallon bucket a few minutes ago, and the rest will be tomorrow. This area has so many orchards and vineyards, that the animals get plenty without wiping out the whole tree. My neighbor up the road has 5 or 6 Persimmons fully loaded right now, and there are still a lot of apples everywhere.

I've heard that Persimmons don't root from cuttings, and to graft them, the best time is in May, here at least.

[QUOTE=Ogorodnitsa]Has anyone had any experience rooting persimmon cuttings? What was your success rate? Do you use the same method you use to start fig cuttings?
 [/QUOTE]

No success here.  I could not even get air layers to take root on Fuyu.  I read in a few places it is best to graft persimmons.  Need to learn that. 

strudeldog,
what a nice collection you have. Havva Fuyu looks very tempting.

Andy, 
custom grafting? Awesome marketing concept. I'm definitely going to find out about that. I want only one Persimmon tree but it would be awesome if it carried several varieties.

Harvey,
What a great idea, auxiliary Thermostat for the Freezer Chest. I have a freezer chest that we used for movie's milk for my kids, ugh...don't ask, LOL
Anyway, I still have that chest running, for frozen veggies and extra great, and meat etc...Now I know what to do with it when I redo the kitchen and the pantry.

Gary,
you have a beautiful garden, the Persimmon tree ads so much beauty.
Are you growing the Olive tree for the Olives or is it a male?
Rosemary bush is another special touch, it's giving a Mediterranean feel to the entire garden.

Rich,
it's funny you mentioned ...that's exactly what my kids called it when I served them the ripe persimmons in the bowls with spoon. Jello fruit. Well, my daughter said YUCK but she finished it at the end.

Charlie,
I read, long time ago, somewhere that you could separate suckers with root from Persimmon trees successfully.
Has anyone tried that?

My dad has propagated D. virginiana using suckers with reasonable success. Remember though, a sucker from a grafted tree will just give you a rootstock.

oh yes...the modern trees.

Thanks, Igor and Charlie, for sharing your experiences with rooting...This means I need to learn grafting. I guess I'll make it a New Year's resolution :-)

Maybe you guys read the other thread that I had to go buy Rat poison? anyway...
On my way home I stopped by at the local Korean Market called HK Market to buy cooked seafood (they prep it really well) and saw these humongous Persimmons.
The price was $1.20/Lbs and it was labeled "Hachiya". I was glad to recognize thanks to you all :)
I couldn't resist so I brought some home. I ate one there (was too tempting not to, and left one out on top of the fridge to ripen by itself  (has some tear on the skin) the rest f'em are in the freezer. 8 of them weighed 7Lbs + I payed $9.

 

[QUOTE=Ogorodnitsa]Thanks, Igor and Charlie, for sharing your experiences with rooting...This means I need to learn grafting. I guess I'll make it a New Year's resolution :-)[/QUOTE]

Not saying it can't be done, just didn't work for me, but maybe it's useless.  The limbs were girdled and wet peat moss, some double foil wrapped and a few modified to fit jars.  They were done on June 9 and stayed on until first frost.  All that happened was big hard globs forming at the edge of the girdling.

The fruit ripened and leaves stayed on until frost but I think it killed those limbs.  They were sent to a forum member who informed me there was no green to graft with.     

I also tried air-layering  my Hachiya. No luck--just a  big knob where I hoped to see roots. They are very easy to graft, though--I've had excellent success using Joe Real's "bark graft" technique. Joe Real's bark grafting tutorial I think this link will work--if not, google it. You have to register as a member of the Citrus Growers Forum to see the photos.

Now my real reason for posting today:
A few years ago I grafted Saijo onto a 1-gal American Persimmon seedling, and also top-worked it onto a 15+ year old Hachiya. Both trees produced their first Saijo fruits this year--dinky things maturing about the size of my thumb joint. The taste is okay, but not as good as Hachiya. Slightly grainy. So, Saijo experts--is the small size/low quality due to the young age of the graft, and will they get bigger and better with the years, or is this as good as it's likely to get?

Is anyone growing any of England's persimmons? Hokkaido, Shin na da, Steiermark, Korea kaki or any of his hybrids? I have his Kassandra and am looking to add another next year.

I just read an interesting article about propagating persimmons from root cuttings. I found the article on permies.com The article came from a USDA Native Persimmon Bulletin I, dated 1915. It is a very good article for other methods and uses for native persimmons but I assume it would work for other Asian persimmons as well.

I don't know of any selected cultivar available on it's own root, unless folks have had more success on cuttings than I am aware, I have had no success with airlayer but some have I understand and on those the the plant would come true but almost every named cultivar you find would be grafted and what would be propagated would be the root stock. I am saving my Kaki and hybrid seeds this year if something was impressive in a few years That would be an option.

Yes, i know what u mean about waiting...lol. My persimmon fruited about 10 yrs ago but never again. Not sure why. Any idea why please tell me. I miss having persimmons from my tree. Im STILL waiting. The store bought are so expensive. Thanks for any input.

My parents had a Hachiya in their back yard in San Bernardino, Ca. It didn't get any special care beyond watering, and it fruited regularly and heavily. It's probably 50 years old now and as far as I know (the house was sold a couple of years ago) is still very productive. No idea why your tree isn't fruiting, but maybe you could check with your local extension, or a good nursery, to see if other people in your area are successful, and ask what varieties work best in your local conditions.

Hey guys I have a question that I would appreciate a very quick answer to because I'm doing a trade and debating if I should get persimmon cuttings. So my question is are persimmons good if they are from cutting or are they like apples and they should be grafted. Thank you and I hope to get a reply. Are any of your trees from cuttings?

They won't root, need to be grafted

[QUOTE=Petechanr]They won't root, need to be grafted [/QUOTE]

But that guy that's offering the cuttings said that the cuttings have already developed roots and are growing...

I'd be very skeptical of anybody offering rooted persimmon cuttings.

Gary has got me into dehydrating lots of Fuyu.  I've dried about 200 so far (8 batches of 6 trays like his) and still think I have more than half the fruit left on my tree.  I've been leaving it to get more ripe since it seems they are nicer if really dark orange and a little soft before dried.

Dried Fuyu slices, when thick and still a little chewy, are delicious. I had a huge bag of them from my folks and we dried about 3/4 of it.

A Fuyu tree was one of the last non-fig fruit trees on my wishlist, until we went to Home Depot and took care of that last weekend. ;)

But this person has been on garden web for a while.

[QUOTE=HarveyC]I'd be very skeptical of anybody offering rooted persimmon cuttings.

.[/QUOTE]

Chances are that they could be seedlings and I have no clue if they would be identical to parent or are the same outcome as fig seedlings.

Since my Fuyu tree hardly produced this season, I Just picked these up at the local store.

What is the best way to dry some of these?

   

Sas: if you dont have a dehydrator, I have heard of people dehydrating in an oven under extremely low heat but i must admit, I havent tried it myself.

I'll probably eat those one faster than I could dry them. I usually eat about half a dozen in one sitting. When you peel them and slice them they go fast. 

Lol...yup, Sas, thats what I do too!. Only i have to buy mine when theres a good price. Its feast or famin for me with both figs & persimmons.

What time of the year is too late in the season to plant.  For instance, we are not quite in winter yet in zone 7a, could Fuyu be planted this late in fall?  To make it relevant to the forum, what about figs as well?

As long as the ground is not frozen it could be done anytime.
Unless the trees are fully dormant, I just move them from pot to in ground without disturbing the roots. It might take longer for them to adjust, but no shock will occur. Make sure that no air pockets exist in the soil if you plant them this late and cover with lots of mulch. In TX I planted some trees in ground in January, but over here it hardly freezes and when it does it does not last for too long.

Hi,
Potted trees can be planted whenever you want. Due to their high prices -here- persimmons trees are always sold as potted trees. So you can plant them when you want.
But, normally trees are planted now for less heat stress . Don't forget to water more the two first years . They really need it !
Be careful with persimmons, in Zone7, you' (and I) re pushing them towards their hardiness limit.
A neighbor here lost a persimmon in the winter of 2012 (lost the graft but not the rootstock ) - I lost 10 in ground fig trees that same winter ...
My newly planted Fuyu currently has an 80 liters  trashcan around the trunk and graft point, just like some of my fig trees.

[QUOTE=Bass]besides the freezer which can somewhat alter the flavor, the easiest way i get them to ripen is in bag with an apple. I just put about 10 persimmons to a couple apples. 
This year I attempted this Japanese method of drying them. I peeled the skin, and hung them on a string. 2-3 weeks later I got a delicious sun dried persimmon. They're even sweeter than fresh ones. 
These are the Russyanka persimmon that I dried. 




 [/QUOTE]

Bass:  Great pictures!  Love the idea. 

[QUOTE=Aaron4USA]Maybe you guys read the other thread that I had to go buy Rat poison? anyway...
On my way home I stopped by at the local Korean Market called HK Market to buy cooked seafood (they prep it really well) and saw these humongous Persimmons.
The price was $1.20/Lbs and it was labeled "Hachiya". I was glad to recognize thanks to you all :)
I couldn't resist so I brought some home. I ate one there (was too tempting not to, and left one out on top of the fridge to ripen by itself  (has some tear on the skin) the rest f'em are in the freezer. 8 of them weighed 7Lbs + I payed $9.

 [/QUOTE]

Aaron, great find!  Huge!  And, I love HK Market.  So much good food there!  These make my mouth water!

[QUOTE=Charlie][QUOTE=Ogorodnitsa]Has anyone had any experience rooting persimmon cuttings? What was your success rate? Do you use the same method you use to start fig cuttings?
 [/QUOTE]

No success here.  I could not even get air layers to take root on Fuyu.  I read in a few places it is best to graft persimmons.  Need to learn that. [/QUOTE]

Charlie:  I would love to know if and when you get a successful rooted cutting!

Cyberfarmer, amazing to have so much goodness!  I would love to be able to graft some of your nice varieties onto my 13 year old tree.  It has only fruited once but that was early on when I first bought it.  Never again after that.  It's a beautiful tree and stands about 15 feet but no fruit.  PLEASE, if you are interested, I would be happy to buy some cuttings from you. 

Thanks in advance,

Meg

[QUOTE=Smyfigs][QUOTE=Charlie][QUOTE=Ogorodnitsa]Has anyone had any experience rooting persimmon cuttings? What was your success rate? Do you use the same method you use to start fig cuttings?
 [/QUOTE]

No success here.  I could not even get air layers to take root on Fuyu.  I read in a few places it is best to graft persimmons.  Need to learn that. [/QUOTE]

Charlie:  I would love to know if and when you get a successful rooted cutting![/QUOTE]

I'm with Harvey on this one and would be seriously skeptical of anyone offering rooted persimmon cuttings but not saying it's not possible.  Perhaps I'll try a few more air layers this year for longer duration and maybe add some rooting hormone, something I've never used.

This morning I ordered seven new trees from England's. Early Jewel, Wonderful, Lehman's Delight, Kasandra, Zima Khurma, Sestronka and Rosseyanka.

Definitely am going to do some grafting this year.  Got one of those tools off ebay and itchin to give it a try. 

None of my current four varieties, Fuyu, Prok, Nakita's Gift and Hachiya made any fruit last year.  Well they started to but heavy, persistent Spring rains caused all the fruit to drop.  They did put on some reasonable growth though so perhaps we'll get some fruits this year.

In my work travels, a  native? tree was located that makes very early ripening, very good tasting fruit, normal native size of about 1.5 inch diameter, some seedless and most either one or just two seeds but never found one with more than two.  Going to try and graft some of that onto more local natives, closer to home.

Also located some unknown Asian variety, growing behind an apartment complex that is situated directly behind a business that was formerly an Asian restaurant.  The tree is as tall as the two story apartments and was absolutely loaded with fruit last year.  It doesn't appear to be grafted.  Must get up the nerve to go ask about it.   

Charlie: You can do it!  Go ask about it :-D  People really appreciate this.

[QUOTE=Smyfigs]Charlie: You can do it!  Go ask about it :-D  People really appreciate this.[/QUOTE]

If I knew which was the right apartment door to knock on.  If I see somebody out there I'll be sure to ask.  

Here's a story about germinating persimmon seeds.  Last winter I gathered a bunch, like a thousand and kept them in the crisper drawer.  Went to quite a lot of effort to separate them from the remnants of persimmons that had fallen off the trees.

Well, I forgot about them with everything else going on and when cleaning out the crisper drawer last summer I found them.  A big blob of mold was pretty much it.  Thought what the heck and dumped them out into a large plastic trash can, full of composted stuff and watered it.

About a week or so there were persimmons sprouting everywhere, a lot of persimmons.  They just kept on sprouting and they were so thick it was crazy.  Didn't expect that at all.  
So like I said it was hot summer.  Tried keeping them watered but I guess with the sun beating on the side of the dark can and them being so crowded, they just didn't make it.  Had hopes of keeping them alive until they went dormant, separating them and replanting somewhere to use for grafting rootstock.

This year it's going a little different.  I've kept some seeds and am putting 40 each into five gallon, white buckets full of the composted stuff.  40 is about as many as will fit with some spacing, I'm thinking enough that even if all sprout they won't be overly crowded and can thin if needed. They will come out at the natural spring time and have a better time of it, theoretically.

The ones that make it, I'll tend all summer and hopefully then come next winter I will have many to separate, replant and use for rootstock for the many other desirable varieties.   

Charlie,

Did you get any grafts to take from the scion I sent you a couple years ago?  Or were you trying to root them back then?

[QUOTE=strudeldog]Charlie,

Did you get any grafts to take from the scion I sent you a couple years ago?  Or were you trying to root them back then?[/QUOTE]

Sadly no.  I tried to root some and didn't get around to trying any grafting.  

Ok, Now of course I Need a persimmon.  I really like the non astringent types when I can find them in the store.

If one had to choose from one of these listed below, which would you choose?  These are on sale at Ison's right now.

Fuyu
Hana-Fuyu
Jiro
Matsumoto

Thanks!