Ok today I was checking some cuttings that I have in sphagnum when I pulled the cuttings out I noticed tinny transparent worms on the cuttings does this mean? Anyone ever notice this before?

At what stage are the cuttings?
I (like many others) had experienced
the nasty "fungus gnat" thing. Their larvae
look like tiny worms and they do damage
the roots.

Sorry Gorgi should of put that info, They dont have any roots yet I am just propagating them two Panache Cuttings had the tiny worms and 2 Black Madeira also had them all 4 cuttings are in the same plastic container with sphagnum none have roots yet.

Then all I can say that I have never had that experience,
while fig cuttings are in the pre (initial) rooting stage.
I have seen fungus gnats in the final potting stage,
specially if inside-house or GH with MG potting soil.

Did you do the initial 10% bleach twig cleaning thing?

Somebody else should be able to help you out.

 

Nelson double check are they moving.
Last time i rooted just in SM i thought similar - tiny opaque worms on the scion and when i looked at it with my jewlers eypeice it actually was small pieces of the SM.
Just a possibility that i hope is the case for you.

I got an unusual request from another member about the same thing recently, asking what these worms are.  I have seen pictures, and they are exactly as you describe, and all over the place.

Can you please tell me what varieties of cuttings have some in contact with this moss?  Maybe it is coming from a specific cutting?

Martin yes they are moving, I initially thought it was just a tiny piece of the SM but its was not.

Jason its on my Black Madeira Cuttings & Panache. I have never noticed this before on any other cuttings or roots. Maybe I should throw out that sphagnum in the container and start with a fresh batch I used the same sphagnum for a bit now.

Good point Martin!
I have also mistaken such tiny SM fragments as roots!

Another (but unlikely); if you already have a f.gnat
infestation, some adults may have entered the "container" and ... 

I assure you, they are worms in this case.  I've seen them in pictures from others.

Nelson, you say you have used this SM for a while.  Please identify the cuttings you have rooted in that SM.  I want to see if there are any similarities between yours and another member I know who had these worms recently.

Fungus gnat info:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.umass.edu/umext/floriculture/fact_sheets/pest_management/images/gnatlife.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.umass.edu/umext/floriculture/fact_sheets/pest_management/fungnat.html&h=399&w=400&sz=5&tbnid=FLhG_FgCNx88WM:&tbnh=124&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dfungus%2Bgnats&hl=en&usg=__6y7rjeV4JcTpYX7kvV5WaIPbg0M=&ei=tQxrS_rLGcmUtgfvguSLBg&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=6&ct=image&ved=0CBsQ9QEwBQ

Does the worms you observed look anywhere near their larvae?

I would love to see a pic!

If they are worms, I would toss all the rooting material, moss, etc, and clean the cuttings. The critters are going to want to eat something, and your cuttings will be the most likely target. You won't be able to guarantee the the current  moss is clean, so start over with some fresh stuff.

Yep, the one I saw looks like it's a fungus gnat larvae:

http://entomology.ucdavis.edu/faculty/parrella/graphics/fungus%20gnat%20juv.jpg

There's a picture from UCD's website of what a typical one looks like.  I don't think I realized they were that big, the gnats are so tiny!!!. 

I communicated with Jason about this topic at the beginning of this week.

EDIT: A small gnat produces a worm like those in the photograph that follows and in Jason's link. The variety shown is *not* Black Madeira or Panachee.

Worm Date: 31 January 2010. They were EVEYWHERE! Good thing I kept them separate from my other cuttings (edit: I cleaned and went direct to cup in Turface MVP:Perlite:ProMix BX 1:1:1) as they burrowed holes in the wood. I sprayed bleach, peroxide, scrubbed, rubbed and left them the stick to dry out and when I came back. Boom. They were an equal number - if not more - that came crawling out all over the wood like a disturbed ant bed. After two rounds of this, I considered tossing the lot but I didn't. The wood smells but isn't soft or rotting, and the cambium is still white from tip to tail.

Worm Date 1 February 2010: In the middle of the night, I got a mental text from Mr. Filament, cousin of Bright Idea. So I got up and put the worm infested cuttings in water to drown the worms and if I saw at least 50 before, I drowned 50 more easy.

Worm Date 3 February 2010: After two full days of water bath, I still found three or four dead, black headed clear worms stuck on their way out of pin holes in the wood or I saw them 'floating' at the bottom of the clear cup.

JD

That is some ugly-critter-worm that I have never-ever seen before...
(suddenly, I just  got a mysterious itch).

E: OK, me calming down! It must be a cluster of worms and (singly)
they do look like f.gnat stuff; concentrating on their best next available food...

E2: I concur with Jon, clean-up, seal and re-start.
With tiny-brained f.gnats, one can never figure
where they may end up ... heck, I once inhaled an adult one
thru my nose! (my filtering-hairs stopped it), felt a twitch
(wing-fluttering), and then it got finger-squashed... funny but true).

You know the ones I seen looked thinner and no black heads not sure if its the same but I will definately change the moss and clean the cuttigns again. What a year, Jesus.

Yuck !
YES i would get new sm.
Nice pictures but ugly critter.

Ok so I also had 2 black madeira in Papertowel baggie method look fine no worms had 2 I started in soil no worms. These thigs are weird they coil when they move and are really really thin as thin as a hair or thinner even and are transparent almost I can barely see them. I look at one with my magnifying glass and no black head looks like a normal worm just tinny and clear. One thing I just remembered though I had the panache in soil first and then put it back in the sphagnum I cleaned the cutting with a mist of water from the water bottle that was it.
Another thing that gorgi got me thinking the plants that I had that died last month all had these tiny tiny little white thingies moving all over the cutting about a 1/4" above the roots wonder if they are the cause of my young rooted plants that died.

This is the closest thing I found on the net, and im starting to believe its nematodes like in the pic above.

Good Grief!
Sorry no, I have no idea what those ugly little crawly critters are.
I am starting to "itch" again...

The big nice picture that JD posted above does not seem to be just one critter. It appears to be at least three worms/larvae
(each with a black head) mingle together to make a scary composit.

nelson,

You should let them grow and use them for walleye fishing.

I think your sphagnum could also be the source of these bugs... All depends how the supplier handles his sphagnum.

nelson ,those on the pic above are same as got them too. I got this rooted cutting in a clear cup and about 2 weeks ago I noticed tiny roots,but while i was enjoying my success I noticed they`re moving :) . (you should seen my face when I realized whats going on).
The pic JD posted they look a lot thicker right ? The one we got are like human hair thick and no black heads.
Since I first seen these guys 2 weeks ago they did not multiplied a lot ,its about same amount I would say I can see around a cup maybe 20 pics.,and they are not getting any bigger either.
The best I can think of is to take the plant to some kind of botanic garden`s lab or something.
Does anybody knows how nematodes look like ?

Sorry forgot to mention I got perilite and poting soil mix 50/50. (no sphagnum).I used some antipesticide with my last watering it did not helped.
These beautiful fings are still moving :(

Take a look at pages  i found :
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.biconet.com/biocontrol/GIFs/Nematodes.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.biconet.com/biocontrol/nemas.html&h=451&w=556&sz=142&tbnid=snGnhfSZRsCmrM:&tbnh=108&tbnw=133&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnematodes%2Bpictures&usg=__1jnHWxCme6I7QP21sOipRHThtxY=&ei=L3FrS7jaEtGBnQe23vX0BQ&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=1&ct=image&ved=0CAoQ9QEwAA

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.organicgardeninfo.com/images/parasitic-nematodes.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.organicgardeninfo.com/parasitic-nematodes.html&usg=__Fs2jTp3H25fvCSK28jLz-Zp2j54=&h=332&w=439&sz=17&hl=en&start=18&sig2=7wu0ceu9e_tvtO8Kh6MCDQ&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=FudckWTKoRiOpM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnematodes%2Bpictures%26hl%3Den%26rlz% 3D1T4TSHB_enUS234US234%26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=qnNrS63mMeKZnAfx9fyTBg

I wish pis was better quality ,I`ll keep my other figs away so they don`t get it.

Hi Remis,
if in the end you run out of options ( all else fails ) take plant out and use sink sprayer and hose off roots system and trunk with lukewarm to cool water and repot in new soil, you can also put new soil on plate with a glass of water in microwave and get the soil smoking hot let it cool down then use soil as it will be pretty sterilized then if you think they might have come in the soil. Im sorry i cannot be of any more help i never had them things before.
What type of plant is it ?

Nelson and jusalda,

At this point, I tend to agree that (most likely) they may
be some kind of a (good? or bad?) nematode. I have
bought some (expensive) good-ones. Also, I have seen
the effect of some bad-ones (RKN) as root-gals.

But I have never seen them squirmy little bugs with my own eyes...

Just a wild guess.
Maybe, Just maybe could they be baby earth worm/night crawlers?

I've seen some dead and dried up worms with the moss I purchased.
I don't know anything on how worms breed but could there be a possibility that if they breed by laying eggs that they could have hatched when they came in contact with water?

Just a wild guess.

Martin,
They are in my VDB`s cup, I`m 90% think they are nematodes the only question I have is: are they good or bad ? Since I water my plants with rain water I could get them from water possibly. I just puled out my other fig out of pot and I couldn't see any of these tiny white worms.
I will keep this pot separately and see what happens,I `ve seen RNK infected roots mine so far does not show any signs.
I hope I have the good guys - http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.pelletlab.com/v5Files/pellet/204592/nematode.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pelletlab.com/beneficial_insects&usg=__7u0EN_6WZQZ05OQZzhb8BHz9q9Q=&h=358&w=225&sz=12&hl=en&start=21&sig2=RaSSb6N_V6MoswBqs-nPKA&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=lqNvouDbaXZxrM:&tbnh=121&tbnw=76&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgood%2Bnematodes%2Bin%2Baquarium%26nd sp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4TSHB_enUS234US234%26s a%3DN%26start%3D18%26um%3D1&ei=fjdsS7K2EqS2NO6g_MsE

Remis you are absolutely right the tiny worms are about as thin as a human hair and no black heads. I too am pretty sure they are nematodes no Idea if they are good or bad. But like I wrote before I have not noticed any damage to the cuttings yet, they are not drying up or rotting if anything they are pushing out new growth in the moss but no roots. Wish my camera was working so I could take some pics.

@ Akram - you are needing to scroll side-to-side because of the long web links that Gorgi and Jusada have put in the thread.  If they were to use a free link-shortener like www.tinyurl.com , the thread could be cleaned up and returned to normal.

As for the worms, it sounds like we have two kinds:

JD's worms with the black heads are pretty clearly fungus gnat larvae

The others seem like they could be nematodes, there are three which affect Figs, please see the UC Davis site:  http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/r261200111.html

Wow what a disapointment, Today I checked the other container I had with cuttings I had some Panache In that container as well and Dark Portuguese I had noticed that the cuttings in this container had more root bumps that any other I had seen so far the cuttings were practically white with these huge mushroom shaped powdery stuff.
Turns out all that white stuff has turned dark brown and seems like those tiny worms are feeding off of them. Noticed one fo the Dark Portuguese cutting has a tiny pin hole on the cutting and when I checked my notes I had the other panache cuttings & Black Madeira in the same container for a couple days Im starting to believe where ever these things came from originated in this Container and then was transfered to the other.
At this point I think Im just going to throw everything out and start from scratch, the good thing is that I had started 1 Panache & 2 Black Madeira in soil right from the day I received them and they seem healthy with no traces of these worms I have been checking on those daily and so far so good.

Nelson,

For those little fuzzy bumps, this is totally normal, in my experience, this happens often, they are not root initials, and I've been fooled also.  I've had green wood with so many white fuzzy bumps that the cutting looks creamy, then within a few days, they all turn brown.  I don't know what this is, really, it's almost like the cutting is secreting something.  It's been discussed in quite a few threads here.

The hardest part of using the method you're using (or the baggie method) is being patient enough to wait till definitive roots are showing.  That can take, it seems, sometimes upwards of 2-3 months at a constant temperature.  Sometimes it can take as little as 1-2 weeks.  Even with the same batches of cuttings!  But, if you see the little white fluffs everywhere, and you transplant before rootlets appear, then you basically have no idea what's going on with the roots.  It could be months before anything happens under the potting mix, and you see roots.

I made the mistake of cupping up some Hardy Chicago cuttings after seeing little white bumps all over, they were everywhere.  After sitting in cups for almost 10 weeks doing nothing - while all other cuttings had well-rooted at this point - I finally broke down and carefully uncupped the cutting, only to find brown freckles and no sign of roots.  I thought the cutting was ready to go into the cup because of the spots.....lesson learned.  Back into the baggie they went.  Seems it's easier to start roots - or at least easier to watch progress - from inside the baggie.

Jason thats funny you say that same thing happened with my BT-MD I thought it was roots potted it up after 6 weeks I pulled it out of the cup nothing going on I cut off the bottom node 2 weeks later in baggy had really nice 1/2" initials then I transfered into potting mix now it has really nice looking roots.

heres a pic of my BT-MD that I was talking about

Nelson,

Before you toss out the cuttings, try soaking them in water for 24 hours to drown the worms. It seems to have eliminated my fungus gnat larvae. My next objective is to see what, if anything, will happen with the cuttings. BTW, Dan suggested adding some liquid soap to the water so that it is more effective in killing the worms.

JD

Thanks JD good thing I just checked the forum and caught your message. I will give that a try and see what happens, the Cutting I showed above is of a Dark Portuguese cutting the embryos have started turning green and swealing so It seems it still has some stored energy in it. Will post an update on Monday when I get back to work.

Just one more tip to add.  Someone - don't ask me who - wrote some time ago that they use part of a 'mosquito dunk' in the water used to soak their soil for planting to control fungus gnats.  This 'dunk' is a tablet you put in standing water to kill mosquito larvae in standing water pots. etc., you can get them at most hardware stores/garden centers.  I imagine you would need to read the directions and adjust the size of tablet you put in your water.

If you are having fungus gnat problems, either BT (which is natural) or mosquito dunks will kill of fungus gnat larvae.  If you make a mix of this, soak your SM with it to do your cuttings, you could potentially (I have not proven it!) obliterate any chance of a fungus gnat invasion.  Soaking your infected cuttings in this, and watering your plants with such water, or just using a sprayer to mist the top of the soil where the egs are typically lain, could help significantly.

I found this topic by chance when looking up another subject.  I wanted to bring it back up because I recently found those tiny clear larvae in one of my cuttings bins.  I had at first thought it came from one set of cuttings and then spread, but later found it was the soil that was contaminated. 

What I found happening was once these little worms appeared I would first see one or two, and then more and more.  And after a few days I might see a tiny white bug crawling on the stem of the cutting right at the soil line.  After worrying about it for a few days I soaked a few cuttings out of their soil to take a look.  The cuttings that were hit first were completely gone.  No roots, and the bark just fell off because they had eaten the live tissue between the bark and wood. 

Now to the solution.  I soaked all the cuttings in that bin out with water. Then disposed any badly damaged ones or cut off damaged parts.  I then soaked the soil with bleach before disposing of it.  The cuttings were soaked with a bleach solution and then potted up in a new mix that was from a new bag of soil.  So far there have been no sightings of worms in any of the other bins and the cuttings that I saved are growing well. 

The worms are very tiny, thin and almost clear.  They look a bit like new roots, but when I touched the cup around the worm they would start moving.  No black head like the fungus gnat larvae.  I hope this helps others if they come across the same thing. 

Very good information, thanks for sharing.

Best,
Tam

You all are amazing to deal with this.  Its the only way we will learn. Thanks!  

Nematodes or fungus gnats?

It doesn't matter.  If that's a fig cutting that part of it at least looks dead.  You need to kill the worms and cut away all dead parts of the cutting.  Showing us the whole cutting might help.