Have had great success in 2010 with creating some do it yourself subirrigation containers and using to grow figs had larger crops and figs and less work. Curios if others fig enthusiasts use SIP(subirrigation planters) and their thoughts. Would encourage others to at least try it if use containers for figs. I compared fig trees in SIPS vs. those not growing in SIPS and i was amazed at the difference in production. Again look forward to dialogues on this topic if there is an interest in it.


  Duane 

I have no experience but am intrigued.
Tell me about your system.

Kyle

Hi Duane ,
I think you are right sub irrigated containers are great. Been using them for 6 or 7 years.
Almost all my figs are in sub irrigated containers , 5 gallon bucket version. And a couple in 20 gallon sub irrigated pots copied after the containers shown in Bill's Figs link here on the F4F site.

This is only my second year with figs so I can't say much about comparative production of figs , but I have 60 buckets (sub irrigated) of veggies that are so productive , I figured same approach would be good for figs. 

Perhaps even better would be what many have mentioned here ,a sort of container/in ground planting hybrid : pots with many holes in sides only , planted in ground after soil warms and dug up for storage for the Winter.
If I had garden space , I would do this.
Look forward to hearing what you are doing.

Welcome to the forum.
Best,
Kerry
Zone 5 NH

I did my own version of a self watering pot after looking at several different construction videos on you tube and such. I did a trial with six fig trees two of each variety. One in the self watering pot and one in a regular pot. All were planted in same media at same time placed next to each other and watered the same with a controlled drip irrigation system. The trees in the self watering pot grew three times the size of the ones in the regular pot. I was totally amazed at the size difference of these trees. I now will put all my one of a kind trees into a self watering pots.

  Nice to hear some feedback on the subject of SIPS(SUB IRRIGATED PLANTERS FOR FIGS) Like you Kerry my figs were a natural advancement based on the outstanding results i have been getting from growing vegetables for a few years in SIPS. Most of my vegetable SIPS were made out of throw away 5gallon buckets from local landfill and now the younger figs are in them as well however the "big boys" like Hardy Chicago and Sals needed a larger SIP container. I had googled and found some information i believe at URBAN GREEN on using perforated drain tile the 6-8 inch diameter type from Lowes or home depot it is that long flexible black plasic material you see if that helps as a description. I took a large tote from walmart and coiled a section of the perforated pipe  into a circle in the bottom of the tub then at roughly 4 inches up i drilled a quarter inch hole through bucket and into perforated pipe inside. this is the overflow hole so you cannot overwater and water resevoir stays at 4 inch level while most of the figs roots stay sitting on top of the pipe so air can get to the root system the center of the perforted tile becomes the wick for the rest of the soil in the tud that is the "donut hole" left in the middle contacts the water reserve and through capillary action absorbs water into the rest of the soil in the tub thus watering the fig tree. In addition based on the principles of SIPS i take recycled water bottled pushed inside one another to create a funnel that goes into the large coil in the bottom of the pot i use duct tape to create a tite seal where this make shift funnel connects to perforated tile in bottom of container. Then filled with soil(soilless mix promix best for cappilary action) and planted tree arouind the circle of the tub i ran basic and cheap all purpose veggie fertilizer in a circular band around outside then prevented rain from hitting it by running tinfoil around top of pot and molding over lip edge of container all watering is done via the water bottle funnel so water never is applied from the top it goes directly to the water reserve and you know when to stop watering when a little spout of water shoots out of the overflow hole. It is like 90percent water efficient and no fertilizing needed after initial plant banding of fertilizer. I have left the house for a week and come back to incredibally healthy and productive figs. In the past i would have wilted leaves at times if i left only for a few days in the summer and had not made plans with a friend to water trees. I LIKE IT and saves me a tremendous amount of labor throughout the season granted it takes some labor to design these useful containers but once designed the benefits are phenomenal in my opinion. This year i plan to try some other desing and planter shapes as well as one using an organic fertilizer to note differences, health, and taste of figs. Anyway try it sometime and compare to your current containerized system for those using containers................ Again look forward to more dialogues and at some point will have my tech savvy daughter take a picture as of date very cold in Northern N.Y. 5F hopefully spring is around the corner:0)

Duane

Duane ,
Thanks for the explanation of how you make your SIP containers.

I have used the 18 gallon Rubbermaid totes to make veggie containers and thought of using them for figs , but I found they broke down from sun exposure after 3 years. I could have wrapped them somehow to protect from the sun , but neglected to do so. Perfect timing to root prune and change containers anyway.

Any pictures of making them ? I'll check on the Urban Green site.

Have you had a chance to look at the Bills Figs link on F4F. It is interesting how he makes the resevoir. He has a nice system for moving the heavy pots as well.
My thinking has been to keep most figs in 5 gallon SIPS until need to root prune then move into larger pot SIPS like Bill's , if they prove to be keepers.
I am growing all of mine using an organic approach. It has worked well for the veggies and it is all I've done for the last 30 years.
BTW , one thing I noticed , The variety Florea which I think Herman said really wants an extra well drained site , did not perform as well as others in the 5 gallon SIPS. It may be that those varieties where it is emphasized that they want a really well draining site may not be the best candidates for SIPS.
Or it could just be the overflow hole was temporarily blocked !
One Florea I have growing in an 8" deep bulb crate grew very well.
All other varieties I have loved the SIPS.
Best ,
Kerry

Never ceases to amaze me what we do to get the best out of our plants.
Its fun though none the less.

  Kerry no pictures yet however should probably do it a picture is worth a thousand words especially in the case of SIPS. I have not found bills link on figs 4 fun yet again i am new to this so maybe i am overlooking something right in front of me. Is there a quick way to get to it? I would be very interested in learning more on the organic approach in your SIPS especially if it generates good yields. Do you still place nutrients on top of the soil layer in the SIP in a band like the synthetic fertilizer or is it different curious?  Everytime i use synthetic chemicals i feel i am just contributing to a broken nutrient cycle like so much of mainstream America and would really like to foster a more closed nutrient cycle especially with the subirrigation systems in short if it is organic and as good or better then synthetics i am all ears....  I agree i only put my tried and trued varieties for my area in the large subirrigation containers lots of work to create them and move around so want to make certain i am going to get a good and tasty crop.... Oh also i have used SIPS to assist with airlayering both figs and grapes since they don't require the constant watering regiment and greatly foster rooting in the airlayering process.......

Duane

Hey Duane ,
For Bill's Figs info go to the figs4fun.com homepage,on the left click on Growing Tips, the third selection down takes you to his container growing info, called Caring for Fig Trees.

If you haven't seen the Earthtainer site , it is very worthwhile.Look for the New Earthtainer III Construction Guide on the Gardenweb Growing Tomatoes Forum or on the Container Growing Forum .You have probably seen it referred to on the Inside Urban Green site.
Ray Newstead is the fellow who explains how to make the earthtainers and the soil mix he uses I think is 6 parts Pro mix BX( or Sunshine mix #4) and 1 part perlite(coarse or supercoarse I guess)

I have been using the organic equivalent of Pro Mix BX which for me in NH is Potting Mix from Ideal Compost Co. or FortLite Mix from Vermont Compost Co. mixed with extra perlite and various organic fetilizers , don't have my mix recipe in front of me right now.

Tapla (Al) who contributes to various forums has put out a lot of good info on growing in containers and I have learned a lot from that ,but I prefer to grow organically so I adapt what I can from his info.

Have to admit I don't follow the fertilizer banding idea for SIPS even though that is the recommended way for organic fertilizers as well. I make batches of my mix with fertilizers added in. Early or mid season side dressings of organic fertilizer may be left just on the surface . I also like to allow the rainwater free access to the containers , so I don't use a plastic mulch on top. Sometimes I even water from the top a bit before I fill the resevoir.
Even someone like me who doesn't always follow directions perfectly has good results with SIPS.
Thanks for sharing your Sips info and experience.
Can I ask what your most productive and reliable variety is ? I think we are in the same zone.
Best ,
Kerry

  Kerry many thanks on how to get to Bills Figs link and others you mention as soon as i complete this thread am going to check it out. In my last entry i mentioned i used the SIPS for airlayering actually i meant to say layering since i redirect a branch or vine into a drilled hole just under the soil line in the bucket. Huge thanks on your exploration into utilization of the SIPS without fertilizer band. I plan on using some comparisons with a bucket with vermicompost worked into top layer, another with Rabbit Compost worked in, a third with a blend, a fourth with a consumer brand of miracle grow "organic" fertilizer, and then of course contrast with the existing system of synthetic fertilizer. I will also try watering from the top  down in addition to filling resevoir with the organic SIP approach as well since makes sense unlike the synthetic should not burn roots if watered some from top down.
     Thanks for your experiences with SIP and sharing info on it i think it is a relatively new concept and now just starting to get into the mindset of mainstream gardening America i think the SIPS are a great creative pallette to work from in not only recycling what we view as (waste bottles,buckets,etc.) but the creative designs and potential is really fun IMO and efficiency is amazing.  Would have to say the three at this point four are about most reliable for me with my 18 year old big boys containerized Hardy Chicago and Abruzzi figs giving me lots of fig and then slightly younger trees Sals and Brooklyn dons very close to the amount i am getting from the latter i suspect as age and container size increase this will go up as well. These four allow me to enjoy figs consistently even on cooler years...........

Many thanks,

Duane

Here is my version (25 gallon pot) of what duane talked about in post # 5 of this thread.
The perforated pipe is 4"
The scaps of burlap may not be necessary.
Drain holes are drilled 3" up on the sides just like my normal Bills Figs containers. (Some pictures of those in use included, if these pics post for me this time)
I built another one a week ago and it seems to function well.

Hello,

 Ive been using difference types of sip systems for a few years and the difference is incredible, the only draw back is that the roots grow so rapidly that any pot 10 gal. or smaller the roots become very root bound after 1 season,but other than that i love It and the figs really respond to this method,every fig tree in a sip has figs on it in my collection.

Geo

Awesome information that I have been needing to see.  Thanks duane + drivewayfarmer

Thanks duane and drivewayfarmer, I have been thinking about using these myself and this information is really helpful.

Very informative topic.  Thanks for bringing it back to life!

did somone compare it to automatic irrigation system 
automatic irrigation gives steady slow drips of water which doesnt wash the nutrients out of the roots like in SIPS-might give same results?

Eli, I use auto drip irrigation in SWPs.  Works amazingly sweet!

Kerry, thanks for the pics. Every time I see the photos of your figs it makes me droooool. LOL

Found this link:
http://albopepper.com/30-gallon-tote.php
Has nice pics and a soil list.

Thanks for the link, I used it today to make some planters for tomatoes/peppers. I am going to try them side by side with my normal draining planters and see how the yields compare.

Those are some great DIY ideas .

[QUOTE=drivewayfarmer]Here is my version (25 gallon pot) of what duane talked about in post # 5 of this thread.
The perforated pipe is 4"
The scaps of burlap may not be necessary.
Drain holes are drilled 3" up on the sides just like my normal Bills Figs containers. (Some pictures of those in use included, if these pics post for me this time)
I built another one a week ago and it seems to function well.

[/QUOTE]

Thanks!  I'm going to try something like this using just a 5 gal bucket.  Also going to try to add a water level indicator that can be seen on the outside of the bucket.

A hint on getting free, food-grade buckets:
I make wine from grape juice that comes in 6 gal buckets. I've used a few to make SIPs. I only make two buckets of wine each year but I know that some people make much more. The guy at my wine supply place says he has one guy who buys 30 buckets every year. I can't imagine that guy uses all 30 empty buckets after he makes the wine. So my hint is that you look around to see if there is a place that sells supplies for makeing wine in your area. Possibly they also sell juice in 6 gallon buckets, or can tell you where to get them. I'd guess that many people buy the wine juice but don't want the bucket after they make wine. Somehow it would be nice if you could connect with them and get their empty buckets. Maybe the owner of the wine supply shop would help connect you to customers with extra empty buckets.

Giacomo:
Molto bello! That is a great SIP design, and very well documented. I think you are also partly an engineer.

Giacomo,  good job!  Which tool do you use to drill?

I have a Ryobi Drill Press from Home depot and a rechargeable 12 volt hand held drill.  I also use a couple dremel tools like the one to make hole cuts and the circular saw one to make cuts in the support base.  My numer is 702-296-7086 is you have questions.  I work my casino job dayshift 12PM - 8PM usually Mon/Tues off.  I made 28 of these so far and they work well.  I used to use more 5 gallon sips like Kerry (Drivewayfarmer) does initially but these are very mobile and do exactly what I want.  The 55 gallon food grade service barrels are nice to have the larger water tank but are pricey and tougher for me to get along with being less mobile (heavier).  You could use an automatic drip system to keep the tank on these filled and fertilize on top (slow release) or possibly use a food injector with a liquid MG sort of fertilizer once a week I guess?  Sips are pretty flexible.  I used 20 something 5 gallon sips last year for my vegetable garden.  The plants grew well but they seem to grow quicker when watered and fertilized on top until the roots grow down some in the bucket.  So I made those without the soil dome top so I water them form the top easier.  I started a facebbok page justfigs with some pics of my cats enjoying some sun under the fig trees.

Duane and Kerry, I like the way you guys designed yours.  Giacomo, I like yours too!  Im in the process of fertilizing all my trees this week including those in SWP.  I got a couple of trees were the roots are already kissing the water.  Last year, I sat 2 Galbuns in 2 16" Walmart SWPs.  They did great for about 3 months.  Then one day...BOOM!  They took off!  I had them in UPM and found myself adding water every day.  I ended up transplanting them to my self made 22 inch SWPs.  That did the trick! 

I like how you don't have to water these guys except for maybe once a week.  I got some of mine on an automatic dripper line.  Great thread guys!  thanks!

Bill told me his larger mature trees in his sips take up to 2 gallons of water per day (in the summer in full bloom I am guessing) and he is zone 6 (NJ) I believe.  In my zone 9 (Henderson NV) I wonder when my trees get bigger if watering them once per day by hand right now will do it?  I guestimate the tank should hold at least 2 1/2 gallons measuring off 3 1/2 inches at the bottom overflow mark.  The plastic tarp really helps here.  The desert can be brutal in the summer reaching close to 120 if not more degrees and is arid (dry).  When people visit I always tell them to drink especially when they get tired.  You dont notice dehydration because you dont sweat that much in arid places.  Your body sweat dries too quickly to notice much.

Giacomo,

Thanks for the great description and photos.  Very nice.  I just made a SWC from a 6.5 gallon (outer) and 5 gallon (inner) bucket a couple of weeks ago.  I hope it can give me a couple of days between having to water here in hot Houston.  What did you use for a soil/potting mix if you don't mind me asking?  Oh, and welcome!  And thanks for some of those recipes on your Facebook page.....fig ice cream, fig smoothies......yum!

Hey Steve (and everyone else :-).  For rooting my cuttings I use (scored dipped in clonex) the clear 24 oz cups I get at smart and final in a plastic bin with the top flaps closed.  I drill 7 3/8" holes in the front of the plastic bin not to get mold when rooting them inside.  I use 50/50 coarse grade perlite and potting mix for cuttings.  New plants get potted up using 2 parts potting mix and 1 part coarse grade perlite.  Established trees I use just straight potting mix.  Losing too many to over watering I now use a squirt bottle to gently water my newbies in pots sparingly.

I would think your 5/6 gallon sip will be fine for a couple of days if need be as the tree and roots are smaller using less water?  I guess it depends how big you let them get.  I am surprised nobody is creating a stand/platform inside the bottom bucket so the top part simply sits higher and the drain holes are drilled higher.  This would give you a larger tank and just sit higher up but who cares?  You would use a taller plastic cup as the wicker.  I just make skirts for my 5 gallon bucket SIP's so people don't have to tell me they looks ghetto.

I just bypass those now going right from 1 gallon pot to the 22 1/2" Whiskey barrel SIP or I would use a 20 gallon plastic container.  For those of you who use them I would simply use the burlap sack dress over it to protect it from sun exposure maybe lengthening its life?  I invite everyone to post on my page your fig pics, videos and articles.  Even your offerings.  Have fun! 

That David Lebovitz book "Whats the scoop is assume!  We make many sorbet recipes from there.  One of our party favorites is his chocolate sorbet recipe http://food52.com/recipes/17877-david-lebovitz-s-chocolate-sorbet yet we make it mocha!  Add equal parts folgers instant crystals (3/4 cup and you can use decafe) and 1/4 cup kahlua.  We add spirits to all our sorbets keep them from freezing (yeah right ;-).

Hi 
not smoking pot here. but i saw in a website of weed growers that they cover drill holes to the sides of the inside bucket and layer them with burlap-they got no root bounding  and hyper growth rate.....

heres the link:
http://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/303229-diy-air-pruning-pot-experiment-6.html

Another interesting idea: http://www.instructables.com/id/Milk-Crate-Air-Pot-Square-Foot-Urban-Container-G/

Thats cool also if you have access to them.
they are not the best looking but i think they are very strong and can survive few decades...

Nice, I'm going to try the corrugated drain pipe.

Hi
that seem to be a proffesional SIP build.  i dont know if i could do it for 100 pots +....

justfigs i dont understand somthing--if the soil is touching the water and there is no fear of root rot, what is the difference if i take rocks and put it in a pot (2-3 inches high)  without holes and the soil on top and than cover the pot to protect from rain. the wicking system will still work doesnt matter if i water from below or from the top? cause the water will still be on the lower part of the pot where the rocks are!!

also above the height of the rocks i will do a drain hole to protect from overwatering..

maybe would help if i put lime stone in the bottom to balance the ph...

This may have been covered on the forum before but does anyone have an opinion regarding how well the Misco self watering containers/SIPs perform relative to the 5 gallon DIY types?  This is the commercial one I am considering:

http://www.amazon.com/Misco-1654-Watering-Planter-16-Inch/dp/B0053NKIVA

I need to set up about 20 containers of around 5-6 gallons each and am weighing cost vs. labor vs. performance etc.  Thanks!

Rewton,
Walmart has those exact planters for a lot less.

HD even has them for less and if you have a Tractor Supply, they have some sizes on sale.

Tami and Mike - thanks for the tips though I don't shop at Walmart.  Have either of you used them and, if so, how do you like them?

Yes.  Mike and Tami and others are correct!  Walmart has those exact same ones.  I have just about 50% of my collection in those pots.

I am buying them at Target. Love them, esp. the larger sizes. The small ones (< 1G) are too wet for figs, I think.

Rewton, I am just trying out my first one so I don't have any results.

Rewton,

I bought a 14 inch for $9.97 at Lowes.  I have a TX Everbearing planted (May 11, 2013) in it using only Miracle Grow Moisture Control potting soil.  For me SWCs seem to take some time to get their SWC characteristic going, but so far this planter looks good early in its test.  I only bought one to try it.  If successful this season I may buy a few more next year.  For comparison, my Hunt planted in a self-made 6.5 gallon SWC took 3 months to show growth and wicking action.

Rewton, I just bought a 16 inch for 11.97 at Home Depot

Thanks Mike.  The closest HD to me did not have them when I looked recently but I'll try a wider search in the area.

Steve

Giacomo,

Where did you get the 20 ga. tub for your first version of the SIP? I'm planning to make a SIP from the H.D. planter also.

Thanks.
Peter

I would be interested to hear from people either in the desert or on the west coast.  My experience with SIPs is that I saw no noticeable difference, and possible poorer results.   Most of my vegetables did very well in SIPs, except for beets which came out super salty.  My fig trees didn't do that well and I didn't use less water.  I still had to water every day if not more than that daily.   They would be dry within a few hours in the summer.  Plus, we have very hard water and the salt doesn't get flushed out.  Over time (say 1+ years), none of my trees did well which I attribute to salt accumulation.   Who in the desert or West Coast can give your experience using these with for figs?

You raise a good point about the water used to fill the self watering containers.  I am planning on using water from a rain barrel as long as that holds out.  I might install another one to keep up the supply.  In the desert this would be a bigger issue.

Steve

[QUOTE=duane]
  Nice to hear some feedback on the subject of SIPS(SUB IRRIGATED PLANTERS FOR FIGS) Like you Kerry my figs were a natural advancement based on the outstanding results i have been getting from growing vegetables for a few years in SIPS. Most of my vegetable SIPS were made out of throw away 5gallon buckets from local landfill and now the younger figs are in them as well however the "big boys" like Hardy Chicago and Sals needed a larger SIP container. I had googled and found some information i believe at URBAN GREEN on using perforated drain tile the 6-8 inch diameter type from Lowes or home depot it is that long flexible black plasic material you see if that helps as a description. I took a large tote from walmart and coiled a section of the perforated pipe  into a circle in the bottom of the tub then at roughly 4 inches up i drilled a quarter inch hole through bucket and into perforated pipe inside. this is the overflow hole so you cannot overwater and water resevoir stays at 4 inch level while most of the figs roots stay sitting on top of the pipe so air can get to the root system the center of the perforted tile becomes the wick for the rest of the soil in the tud that is the "donut hole" left in the middle contacts the water reserve and through capillary action absorbs water into the rest of the soil in the tub thus watering the fig tree. In addition based on the principles of SIPS i take recycled water bottled pushed inside one another to create a funnel that goes into the large coil in the bottom of the pot i use duct tape to create a tite seal where this make shift funnel connects to perforated tile in bottom of container. Then filled with soil(soilless mix promix best for cappilary action) and planted tree arouind the circle of the tub i ran basic and cheap all purpose veggie fertilizer in a circular band around outside then prevented rain from hitting it by running tinfoil around top of pot and molding over lip edge of container all watering is done via the water bottle funnel so water never is applied from the top it goes directly to the water reserve and you know when to stop watering when a little spout of water shoots out of the overflow hole. It is like 90percent water efficient and no fertilizing needed after initial plant banding of fertilizer. I have left the house for a week and come back to incredibally healthy and productive figs. In the past i would have wilted leaves at times if i left only for a few days in the summer and had not made plans with a friend to water trees. I LIKE IT and saves me a tremendous amount of labor throughout the season granted it takes some labor to design these useful containers but once designed the benefits are phenomenal in my opinion. This year i plan to try some other desing and planter shapes as well as one using an organic fertilizer to note differences, health, and taste of figs. Anyway try it sometime and compare to your current containerized system for those using containers................ Again look forward to more dialogues and at some point will have my tech savvy daughter take a picture as of date very cold in Northern N.Y. 5F hopefully spring is around the corner:0)

Duane
[/QUOTE]Duane, I just got done reading your article here and still a little in the dark.. would it be possible when it warms up to do a youtube and send me the link so I also can make your water efficient system???
Please let me know.. thanks
Vic.