I have experienced several sellers that have sold fig cuttings or fig rooted stock with leaves with FMV BUT did not disclose the fact that the parent or the actual plant had evidence of it. I believe that folks selling rare or high sought out types should make any buyer aware of the issue. This of course will not command the high selling price, which is most likely why the non disclosure is occurring, but after 30+ years growing figs I am well aware of the probability of it and many trees show or do not show but are dormant carriers, but I think if a plant show obvious signs, they should make the buyer aware before shipping the plant and accepting the funds. I will not trash publicly trash the seller here, but this is a general complaint that I consider any seller not opening stating that their stock does or may have FMV is not being honest. Hiding this fact on purpose commanding a high price where the buyer is assuming clean stock is fraud. No, not all fig trees have FMV, many do,  coming from infected stock and the trading propagates this literally across the planet.

George ( gorgi ) has made such disclosures and his plants always been healthy.
Plus he packs them like Fort Knox.

My thoughts.

I have bought and sold plants on Ebay.
Did i mention my plants have Fmv ? No not because trying to flim flam anyone but all of the ones that are the harder to get have them and its no secret.
If one grows finer tasting figs its likely and known they have it.

Selling scion and a few plants thruout the years i believe i was asked 1 time if plant had Fmv.

Trading plants and giving them away i recall not being asked if plant has Fmv.
Years back Fmv was not well known on this forum when there was less than 100 member of us when i found out about i looked and said to myself oh my plants are fine until i learned what to look for.

I guarantee most here including well known collectors as folks call them nowadays have it.
If you bought a plant from a nursery you have it.   ;  )


Macool
Panache
Mavra Sika
Argentile
Ischia Black
Madeira
Ronde
HC
Sals
Sultane
VdB
ScD
Pastiliere
CddN
MB
NdB
Sollies
list goes on and on.

Have yet to run across 1 that does not have FmV .


Have read recently thread here on tissue culture and its said plants were Fmv free because of it.
Talked to owner of said place and was told that plants would carry any Fmv over into the new plants being duplicated as i thought about doing it some years back.

In short one would not enjoy figs if they worry about weather there plant has Fmv.
Unless of course your trying to grow the famous Ischia Black.

So if you want a FMV free plant
Ask the person otherwise assume it has it just like 1 assumes they need to put gas in there car to make it run well at least most cars.  ; )

A simple solution to your problem Jack...avoid bidding/buying on eBay.

If you want to avoid FMV, avoid growing figs.

Or never get a plant/cutting that at any time in it's entire history has passed through any Mediterranean region - like California, or Italy, or Spain, or Greece or....  Good luck finding one of those. ;)

Probably every fig has FMV, maybe up to 7 strains.  How is a seller to disclose?  "This fig has slight (or moderate or severe) indications of FMV"?  All of the Black Madeira that is grown has apparently come from the same original mother tree indirectly yet some people report poor growth and others report very good growth even though they are all most likely growing with the same level of infection.  One person might sell something and disclose it has slight indications of FMV but the buyer might find it is more severe in his conditions for whatever reason(s).  In the commercial fig nurseries in California there is no such disclosure as FMV is a given.  Why should mostly hobby growers demand more?  I don't believe non-disclosure by any sellers is due to any intent to deceive anyone.  I saw a bunch of fig trees in Lowe's the other day (believe grown my Four Winds Nursery) and none of them had any disclosure but I am sure they all had FMV.  As I wrote in another thread I found out yesterday that Duarte Nursery is cleaning up figs of FMV in their tissue culture lab and I'm guessing those trees are most likely the only trees in the country that are completely free of FMV, though only temporarily until they get planted and infected.

[QUOTE] I don't believe non-disclosure by any sellers is due to any intent to deceive anyone.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I assume all of my figs have it and I don't even much think about it anymore. I gave 9 of my young trees to a friend and it never crossed my mind to tell them. It's simply not that important out here. If you have a fig, it either has or will soon 'catch' FMV.

I've gotten cuttings from people who volunteered that they were virus free, and I'm sure they beleive it. Yet when I start them here (SoCal) they show symptoms. Did they come with FMV, or did they get it immediately from my other figs from multiple sources?

I have Mary Lane from two sources. The one from someone in California (with a very large collection) obviously is virused  ( http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Mary-Lane-cuttings-and-FMV-5844556  ), the one from cross country from another collector appears to be much healthier from the get-go. Could just be the result of different culture on my end, multiple infections in Calif - or just blind luck of some sort.

The distinction should be made between Fig Mosaic Virus and Fig Mosaic Disease. It was pointed out to me by a knowledgeable forum member in an earlier discussion on FMV.

If it is a given that all figs carry one or more of the viruses, the term FMV is irrelevant. The discussion (disclosure) should be, if there are visible signs of FMD.

Most of the heritage trees in the NYC metro area do not exhibit any visible signs of Fig Mosaic Disease (FMD), that is not saying that they do or do not have Fig Mosaic Virus (FMV). Purchased plants from large nurseries (*onrovia as an example) that are planted in the same locations as FMD symtom free trees show the distinctive visible signs of FMD.

I think the question should be asked by the buyer, but many sellers have statements on the visual appearance of their mother trees.

Even though there are quite a few members selling here that I trust and never give a 2nd guess about.
And even though there are different views in this topic. I have to agree with everyone.

I understand Jacks issues/concerns and I understand everyone else's. This subject is in the shaded area.

Glad we kept it civil.

Hope I didn't confuse anyone and Happy figging.

Another thing I have noticed is that trees that are grown in pots can show dramatically much more fmv of fmd than those in the ground, sometimes it shows up in the pots but not in the ground.  I can't explain why, prehaps it's more a root constraint showing up?  Also when my dog pees on trees it tends to show up where he pees and not other areas, could it be higher ammonia can cause something that looks similar?

I agree with Rafed! :)

I'll try to put together some photos as an update to a thread I started earlier this year or late last year regarding some local giant fig trees that are about 100 years old.  I saw symptoms of FMV in these trees when I checked them out today.  Birds had already eaten most of the breba but I found one that was quite good and there are many hundreds of main crop figs.  These trees have received zero care for several decades (the home that my uncle was raised in was lost to a flood 41 years ago) and they are doing quite well.  Maybe nutrient deficiencies are easier to encounter in pot culture and FMD is possibly then more likely to be reflected in such conditions.

i have a perfect solution. if FMV/FMD is of a concern. don't grow fig. otherwise, enjoy the fun part of growing and eating the fig and forget about FMV/FMD.

I will man up and say that I sold Jack the rdb in question.  However I did not intentionally hide the fact that the specimen had fmv.  The mother plant shows no fmv but the plant in question does.  I just never thought about it.  No one has ever asked me about fmv and if they did I would tell the truth.  I guess I have come to the conclusion that it is not an issue, at least to as vigorous a grower as rdb. I offered and the offer still stands to pay for the return shipping and a full refund of the price paid.  In the future I will be more careful so as to not get into this situation.  A few years ago I tagged the mother plant with those metal tags with the wire.  I forgot about the tag and the tree out grew it and I didn't notice until the  next year that the wire had girdled the tree but it did not set it back at all.  I used pliers to remove the wire and the tree kept growing like the monster it is, fmv or not.  Please accept my apology and as I said I have no problem if you want your money back.

Ed, is your mother ship RdB in ground or how big a pot?  What kind of soil do you have it in?

Apology accepted.  My desire for private sales is what most professional growers and sellers in general do when selling anything is make the buyers aware of any issues.  I am simply not going to stop growing figs or not go on eBay or even not grow figs with FMV. 

I think this is sort of like tacking "unknown" onto an original named variety. Some people feel better that it is there but it really is just a statement of the obvious. Good sellers saying, "my plants may have FMV" gives bad sellers an opportunity to say "my RdB is special because it does not have FMV". 

Jack, I respectfully disagree with your view on this issue. There was no need for Ed to apologize. He did nothing wrong.

Unless the plant is riddled with signs or FMV or the cutting comes from said plant, what is the seller to tell you? As Ed stated, the rdb he sold you came from a vigorous healthy mother tree without signs of disease. Should he have disclosed that 5 or 10 years ago when he first grew the original cutting it may have had some indication of carrying the virus? What if he never noticed any signs of the virus in the original scion?  There are endless scenarios and permeations that could be imagined here.

I personally received cuttings from Ed's rdb two years ago that never have shown signs of FMV. They are now 3-4 feet tall vigorous trees starting to fruit. I just recently swapped an air layered plant from it with another member without any type of disclosure. Do I owe the recipient an apology?

As almost everyone has stated, FMV comes with the territory so it is best to assume it is present at some level in any and all fig trees.

"My desire for private sales is what most professional growers and sellers in general do when selling anything is make the buyers aware of any issues."

I am not aware of any professional nursery specifically making buyers aware of FMV.  Encanto does have a legal sounding disclosure (below). Would something like that have fulfilled your requirements?

"If you are interested in fig trees, you must be aware that we have an extensive collection of varieties. As a result of their many places of origin, including USDA/UC Davis, they have all been exposed to Fig Mosaic Virus (FMV) and most likely are infected with it (though not all exhibit symptoms). Some of our varieties have come from the finest sources in the country, and they have been similarly infected. We do not consider this to be a problem and the United States Department of Agriculture agrees, noting that it is “ubiquitous” even in many wild populations of trees. But we understand that some people are concerned. It is not possible to have a collection of this size and not have FMV, just as it is not possible to obtain most of these varieties from uninfected sources. If this is of concern to you, you will probably want to refrain from purchasing. We have used names for all of the figs which they had when we received them, unless they were unmistakably mislabeled. The pictures at Figs 4 Fun will serve to identify them as what they actually are here in San Diego (given the difference of climates, soil, fertilizer, caprification, etc. "your results will vary"). Again, hopefully this is full disclosure."

Frank....

My family  has 59 years of experience in two generations operating a professional nursery and greenhouses business, so I do not agree with you. Many professional growers state the health and state of their plants to protect their strategic reputation.  I am also aware of the history and background of FMV and believe it is incorrect to asume that all plants have it or may have it as a rational to allow sellers not to state it may or does have it. I am aware of or own many trees who show no signs or have been tested not to have it. My issue is not having a plant with FMV, would have liked to own one without it like anyone else, but would have liked the seller to state it had signs of FMV before I bought and also any statements made about the history of the plant were made after the sale was completed.

[QUOTE=JackHNVA]My family  has 59 years of experience in two generations operating a professional nursery and greenhouses business, so I do not agree with you. Many professional growers state the health and state of their plants to protect their strategic reputation.  I am also aware of the history and background of FMV and believe it is incorrect to asume that all plants have it or may have it as a rational to allow sellers not to state it may or does have it. I am aware of or own many trees who show no signs or have been tested not to have it. My issue is not having a plant with FMV, would have liked to own one without it like anyone else, but would have liked the seller to state it had signs of FMV before I bought and also any statements made about the history of the plant were made after the sale was completed.[/QUOTE]


Give it up . If you have a plant which does not have FMV it will soon have. 59 years will make no difference. I grow a lot of citrus far removed from commercial growing areas and within two years of a new problem arising within the commercial growing belt I have it. Same with figs. I have many with and some which don't show FMV but believe they are also infected. Live with what is . Professional nurseries and greenhouses are the best way to spread problems.

I know i am rather new to growing figs (about 5 years) and have grown many citrus even longer. it is my understanding (please correct me if i am wrong) that all figs carry fmv tho may not be symptomatic. also it is my understanding that a 5 year old tree that may not display signs of fmv but freash rooted cuttings from said tree can and most likly will. i donto know if it is my climate or what but none of my older trees show signs of fmv tho they did when they where younger. and cuttings rooted from my older trees show signs. so i am thinking it may be somthing like sorry for lack of a better anoligy but cancer. we as humans all carry cancer in our genetics, now we all dont have cancer until somthing trigers it to go off. just taking a stab in the dark on this one.

now my younger trees show signs of fmv not in spring and summer but in fall right before going to sleep for winter.

so the big question here is FMV really that big a deal. i sopose if it is such a bad case that the fruit is deformed and unetible.I have heard of such cases for example Ischia black tho have never seen it myself. fmv is here to stay i assume. unless the protiens that cause it on a genetic levle can be blocked ( like a fmv vaccine) maybe it is possible. but creating a fmv tree is a waste of time unless it can be prevented from catching it later on.

I honestly hope nobody takes any offence to anything at all i said here. i understand both sides as a buyer and sell myself. its like buying a pack of smokes. do you really need the warning that smoking is bad for you. its somthing that is common knowladge. except maybe to a newbie. then i could understand the frustration. just please keep it clean. and if you cannot agree then please agree to disagree.

Dave

While I tend to agree that most plants have FMV I cannot say that every plant has it or there are some without it, it is impossible for me to prove either one since I have not done the tests nor do I have all the trees in the world.  In order to alleviate the problem, it might be advisable to put on a listing of the tree, or cuttings or even in trade that the trees have not been verified free of FMV so buyer beware that it is possible they have the virus.  If a person wishes to then not to buy them because of it then they will be happy that they have been warned for someone who is not concerned they will still be happy they have the tree then we don't have to deal with unsatisfied customers and everyone is happy, hopefully.

That is my two cents on it for what it's worth.

Jack, I don't have a long history as a nursery and it's only a small one at that.  However, there are very large and old nurseries in California (that are considered to be very reputable), much longer than your operation's combined experience, and they don't address presence of FMV in the fig trees they sell.  For instance, I think Dave Wilson Nursery has been around for 75 years and sells millions of trees annually.  The only time I know of disease issues being addressed in commercial nurseries is when they state them to be "virus free", etc. of a particular disease pest.

Ed has already stated his parent tree did not exhibit signs of FMV and another buy said that their tree started from that mother tree hasn't either yet you think he should have disclosed it's presence and that an apology was deserved.  I don't see how this makes any sense, but maybe I'm missing something.

I'll hijack your thread and say a thing I've noticed is that some smyrna fig trees and cuttings are being sold on eBay but not being disclosed as such.  I really wonder how many of the buyers of these realize they won't be getting fruit if they don't have wasps present.  The buyer has some responsibility to know what they are buying but some of these don't have much information available.