This was a tree labeled negronne sourced from Dalton Durio, he swore that negronne and VdB are the same
[IMG]http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t447/rtreuil1/null-59.jpg[/IMG]
This one had VdB on one side and negronne on the other side of the tag and it is sourced from James Robin,
[IMG]http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t447/rtreuil1/null-61.jpg[/IMG]
I still never seen fruit from either to make the real comparison, I've been waiting to see if the tree in the top pic would ever display leaves with the long finger like lobes that I associate with VdB but it hasn't. Only time will tell.

VdB and Negronne are either same or very similar figs. looking at the pix you posted, the bottom one looks just like my VdB/Negronne. the top one doesn't look like mine at all.

I'd wait to see how that top one develops. I thought I had a similar issue with a Ronde de Bordeaux plant I received because its leaves were nothing like I've seen in pictures. Within a month the long narrow finger leaves started forming though. I think they refer to the leaves in your pic as juvenile leaves. 

That's what I figured Pete, thats how most of them look. When I went to Durio's I went through all his "negronne" trees and picked out 3 of them, one for me, one for my dad, and one for my sister and they all looked like the one in the top pic. So I don't know if he knows something I don't or if something got mixed up on his end. Just the little I know dalton I'm willing to bet he wouldn't do that on purpose. He brought us way to the back of te nursery where he keeps all his young trees and starts, and that's how they were on the table.

I have a VDB with both types of leaves. One type on one limb and the other type on another limb.

Yea guys I will defenitly give it more time, I will be amazed if the figs are identical from two trees that look so different.

i heard dalton is reliable... more time might show more mature leaves.

Your right, that's all I've ever heard. I've only met him once and he is a real stand up guy. And also I hope no one gets the wrong idea because I sure wasn't trying to talk bad about him if that's what it sounded like, he has a lot of great trees and loves what he does. I'm sure I'm just jumping the gun with my little tree.

A photo of my "Negronne" with figlets aplenty.  Source: Hollybrook orchards.  Looks like the VdB.

I started 2 VdB cuttings last winter/spring. One had single lobe leaves like that for awhile, but by time it got to about what seems like the size of the one in your pic it started putting out leaves more like the other. Now they are the same.

Some of the leaf shapes in this thread may have some interest to you.
http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/Doesnt-look-like...-Petit-Negri...-but-is-it-5930769?highlight=petite

Thanks, I'll just keep watching it grow, lol

Oh boy, I might be down to only the one with the big leaves, we had really heavy rains for a few days and the ground is saturated, now that the sun is out it looks like it is cooking the VdB with the long lobes. Oh well, can't win them all.

my VdB leaves wilt in full sun.... It does much better in location with afternoon shade.

It gets a little shade in the morning but after 12 noon it is in the sun for the rest of the day. It never really wilted until after we had all that rain for a couple days. I made some shade for it though, hopefully it will be ok.

The one on top doesn't look like VdB or Negronne. However, My Vista OL ("odd leaf") had leaves lie that for about 3 years before beginning to look "normal".

[QUOTE=pitangadiego]The one on top doesn't look like VdB or Negronne. However, My Vista OL ("odd leaf") had leaves lie that for about 3 years before beginning to look "normal".[/QUOTE]
Jon, when you say vista that is black mission, correct? That might be the same as the tree I bought from top Tropicals, it was labeled black mission but it has some really long lobes just like most VdB's.

My young VDB has all finger leaves. It is less than a year old potted from cutting.

Thanks for the afternon shade tip. I now know where I will plant it.

just when I joined this forum, I won VdB cuttings from a generous member of this forum. I  made them root and their baby leaves are identical to yours.(mulberry/heart style and in a few month the long finger leaves developed and no move of those young leaves.  I enjoy my little tree very much. I am allowing one figlet to grow just to see what it would be like.

I have a VDB (aka Negronne) that made both of those kinds of leaves this year.  It's definitely VDB and from a reliable source.  Last year it made only the deeply cut "finger-like" leaves, but this year it had those and the single-lobed leaves on the same tree.  I think there's just a lot of variability to leaf morphology.  Maybe it's triggered by culture/environment variable.  (p.s.  Aubique Petite also makes multiple kinds of leaves, often on the same plant limb-by-limb, and from what I've read that is a common feature of Aubique Petit.  Mine has done that for two years running).

Mike   central NY state, zone 5a

Does anyone think that the type of leaf produced might depend on the age/maturity of the plant where the cutting was sourced?

Ryan,
There seems to be several different cultivars that have been named Violet de Bordeaux. From all accounts Negronne and VDB have been cross named for so long that the names have become interchangeable. I have a named Violet de bordeaux/Negronne from Edible landscaping (it came with a tag from a west coast nursery with both names). It has never produced single leaves (3 and mostly 5 lobed) and a sucker that it produced last year has only produced 5 lobed leaves this year (the first 4 emergent leaves the sucker ever produced last year were singles).


Mike "MichaelTuscon" posted pictures of his Aubique Petite (in a topic about Petite Negri) that produces entire branches with single lobed leaves. From older posts this may possibly be the single lobed cultivar that you've posted. I would be curios to see pictures of the multi-lobed leaves when they develop (whether they resemble Petite Aubique or VDB/Negronne).



Charles,
IMO the source of the cuttings dictate the leaves produced, based on the cultivar that the source is replicating.

Thanks Pete, and everyone else, when and if it produces leaves with the long lobes I will post it.

I also have a Vdb/Negronne sourced from Edible Landscaping 2 branches have mostly 'mulberry' type leaves (these branches get less sun). The rest have the typical long fingers. I have 5 plants started this year from this fig; 3 have the long fingers, 2 have the mulberry leaf. they are all about a 18" high. I bet in time yours will produce the long fingered leaves.

Scott

Thanks all, the more feed back the less I'm worried about it

I answered on fb, I said right. Since I made this post I've come to realize that all the long fingered leaf trees can put out single lobed leaves. Ives seen the single lobes on vdb, negronne, nero 600m, aubique petite, vista, raspberry latte, etc, etc.

So with that said, the one on the right can be vdb but the one on the left looks to be too jagged around the edges, but that doesn't mean it's not possible.

[QUOTE=ThaiFig]So to bump up an old thread, which one of these is VdB, left or right? I got every response imaginable on FB.[/QUOTE]
Do you know, or are you trying to find out?

My vdb put out single lobe leaves when it was less than 2 years old.
Now there are only long fingered leaves.
I believe it is just part of the plant maturing.
Doug

The one on the left is a tissue culture. The one in the right is typical VDB

I haven't seen leaves like the one on the left from my VdB type family of trees. The right yes.
I think until you get ripe fruit to judge from the one on the left all bets are off. Imo
I'm not saying it isn't, just saying it possibly isn't.

First two pictures are typical VDB. Next two are tissue culture.

Brianm,

Yours are probably 2 different strains. The left look like the Vista, which UCD confirmed was the same as a strain of "VDB" sourced from a reputable person which I nevertheless believe was mislabeled at some point and sold to many collectors as VDB. There is another strain called VDB that looks like the ones on the right, and may be the same fig as Nero 600M.  The "Vista/UCD genetically analyzed VDB", and the other VDB floating around are 2 different varieties.  I am unsure if there is a 3rd variety going by VDB; however, I do have a VDB that throws limbs with single-lobe grape like leaves and other limbs with the long fingers on them similar to the leaves on the right. I can give you cuttings from one of my "Vista" and from one of my other "VDB" that are not tissue cultures so you can see what I am talking about.  Hit me up trade season if you want to see how the "Vista" will look like the one on the left and the other will look like the one on the right. They are easy rooters. :)

[QUOTE=SuperMario1]... I do have a VDB that throws limbs with single-lobe grape like leaves and other limbs with the long fingers on them similar to the leaves on the right...[/QUOTE] One of my tissue culture VdB looks like what you described. All the others are long finger leaves. I wonder if the difference is only in the leaves or if the figs taste different as well? Has anyone experienced eating figs from both and can answer one way or another?

I have tasted both and have not noticed a difference yet, but those were first year fruits. This will be year two for both.

Edit: Apparently Nero 600M also throws some of the single lobed stems so it is likely that it is the same as the non-vista VDB.  see thread: http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/nero-600m-7033563