Is anyone growing Socorro Black successfully besides Jose?  I have cuttings on eBay and my two trees haven't fruited yet so I'd like to have some help in answer questions from a potential bidder.  My trees should fruit next year.  Both seem to have a lot more side branches than most of my trees.  Jose posted about it at http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/show_single_post?pid=40229673&postcount=16 but I haven't seen anybody else post about fruit and I'd like more information about its productivity and taste. Thanks.

JD has posted number of pictures of Socorro Black. wonderful looking figs.

i had few cuttings, only two made it. one was chewed up by my puppies and one left. it's not very fast growing for me. it was rooted summer of last yr, and it has grown total about 1 foot. it grew at 90 degree angle. it did put on couple of figs, but they didn't come to much. i'm sure with string of bad luck i'm running with figs this yr, it's all my fault. 

all the pix i have seen on the forum looks wonderful and very tempting fig. 

Thanks, Pete, I remember his thread now and I even posted in it twice. http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post?id=6450893

Strange, because when I searched for the term "Socorro Black" I did not get JD's thread to show up.  I just now searched "Socorro" and entered "JD" for member, and this thread came up.

Anybody have an idea why JD's fruits this year had cavities?  Jose's fruits are solid.  I notice in Pons' book that Panache has a cavity yet mine never do.

The fruits I had on my Socorro Black trees came very late and didn't mature.  Both trees grew to about 3' this first year.

no idea why the cavity, but JD's SB from 2011 also shows cavity. 

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/socrro-black-5554708

looking at jose's pix, his figs were not as ripen as JD's. also, i can see a small cavity. nothing all that big, but maybe as the figs ripens, the pulps collapse and create bigger cavity? not sure.. 

Pics of the fruit looked great.
However, I lost my young plant before it fruited.

I've let my Panache go beyond dead ripe and they never have a cavity while the fruit in Pons book has a large cavity.  It must have something to do with the climate, I think.

Gorgi, did your SB die for freeze?

I received my SB from JD last spring, planted it in ground and it fruited in the summer.
Unfortunately I was able to taste only a few, thanks to the fracking birds and late ripening. The ones I sampled were dense and very rich tasting. Did not bother looking  for a cavity as the birds were hovering nearby and poised to attack.

"poised to attack" :)

Folks have written about trapping squirrels but I just realized that nothing has been said about trapping birds.  Is there something that makes it more objectionable to kill a bird than a squirrel or rat?

When I was a youth our neighbors trapped birds all the time.  They had a pet skunk in a cage.  Yes, really!  They had the scent glands removed from the skunk, only God knows how they talked a vet into doing that.  Anyways, they trapped birds frequently and fed them tot he skunk.  It was pretty easy, they had a wire mesh cage (1/4" square mesh, I think, though this was over 40 years ago).  There was one shorter area on one end and some grain or other bait was placed on the ground in this area and there was a cone shaped funnel out of the wire mesh leading from this section to the main enclosed area of the trap.  Usually near the other end of the funnel was a lot more grain or bait and they would hop through the funnel and not be able to get back out.  It looked something like this:

 

@Harvey: It was the cold/freeze that killed my SB.

Many/Most birds are illegal to kill I beleive.

why is it illegal to kill the birds? i can see some are more rare and endangered.. but robin, pigeon, and sparrows are plentiful and doesn't really do much other than poop on the sidewalk. now the canadian geese are becoming traffic hazard down here. 

by the way, i just remembered something. the SB cutting i kept alive was very small thin cutting. maybe it didn't have enough energy reserve to shoot up this yr. now the new growth is more presentable, maybe it will kick into high gear next yr. 

I am sure Local laws vary to a degree, but most songbirds are protected as are birds of prey. The Migratory Bird Treaty Act (MBTA) provides federal legal protection for wild birds with the exception of species not native to North America and resident game birds. Common Pigeon, European Starling, English House Sparrow (which is actually a finch) are normally ok to kill, but many of the birds that would be harassing you figs Mockingbirds, Thrashers, Catbirds, etc... I believe are protected most everywhere. You may be able to get a permit in some situations in regards to crop damage, but doubtful for a backyard grower. Your Geese would fall under Fish and Game laws as would other birds with a defined hunting season. I love most birds, but not trying to define right and wrong, just giving input to the question of why killing birds is more objectionable than killing a squirrel or rat. While squirrels  have a defined hunting season for me locally they are also classified as nuisance animal.

Sparrows cause the most damage for me by far.  I've not seen mocking birds mess with figs.

There is such a thing as a depredation permit but I don't know what's involved.

I wonder if aversive conditioning would work for problem birds, like is done for bears?

Trap and hold them for a day, spray a little paint on their tails then show them pictures of CarrotTop and let them go.

Trapping didn't work on my towhees, Brent (who after being trapped several times in my chipmunk cages decided to build a nest right smack the top of my LSU). Should have added some Carrot Top. Or maybe a HoneyBooBoo scarecrow. My grandpa used to put fake rubber snakes in his trees and garden to keep the birds away...might try that next year.

 

harvey, this is what you need. non-lethal solution. http://m.cnet.com/news/rubber-band-machine-gun-holds-672-elastic-shots/57616103 edit: video to boot. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/11447722/rubber-band-machine-gun-0

My bird problem isn't too severe. Frank needs some help, though.  I shoot to kill. :)

For my new 6/10 acre block of figs I've already considered netting it if I get serious about marketing figs.  I think I figured it would cost $6-$8,000!

one thing good about all the rain this yr was... no birds and no flying insects.

Hi,

Does anyone know where I can find cuttings for a Socorro Black or a Ruby3 fig?

I would like to try to add one or both of these to my fledgling fig family.

Thanks,
Jubilee

Ruby 3 -- Richard Watts has it. Not sure whether Jon has it. It is a late fig here. May junk it after this
season if green house trick don't help.

Soccoro Blk --- In my opinion Hardy Chicago, Dark Portuguese, RdB are better tasting. More
likely it has to do with my zonal characteristics.

No disrespect intended but I don't know why anyone would put cuttings up for sale if they never fruited for them.  How are you even 100% positive that is the variety you have? 

Ed, my cuttings came from Jose, the discoverer of this variety.  He has posted about them here and on GW and there are some folks that want them.  The plants grew well for me so I had good cuttings available to sell and I think the above made them worthy of being sold.  Maybe you think I should have thrown them away??

No, I agree that I would not have thrown them away.  I also have a small plant but since it has not fruited for me I would not sell cuttings, maybe traded with an explanation.  I think as forum members we should take a higher road to ensure there are no mix ups.  Case in point, and I know I am not making any friends here but there is a member, who is a very nice person I understand and who has been generous to other members from what I hear. He constantly has fig cuttings for sale on ebay.  Why I would never buy from him is that he never puts pictures of the fruit.  Worse yet for me are those who don't even put a picture of the actual cuttings but the same picture for all the different varieties.  Maybe it's just me and I apologize if I offended anyone.

Ed,
I agree with you completely.
If this was only a Hobby, that would be a good procedure to help ensure its integrity. Personally I am using that procedure (growing out cuttings to harvest) to confirm cultivars.

But due to the diversity of the forum and financial concerns, that simple procedure would never be implemented.

Well, I consider ethics to be of utmost importance to me but don't agree with your broad generalization about this. If I am confident of the source, I feel it is appropriate to sell cuttings.  The idea of giving them away as trades instead of selling them makes no sense at all as the potential for a problem still persists.  In my auction I specifically indicated that the variety had not fruited for me yet.

And to think that you can identify a variety with 100% confidence once it has fruited for you is also a fallacy, though it does help.  Different environmental conditions produce different fruits and many fruits are similar to other varieties.  Since my source was very reliable, I stand by my position that it was appropriate to sell them.  I did not get big money for these cuttings, BTW.

Ed and Pete - to take this further: if I were to buy cuttings from you and grow them for one year but not get fruit, I should not sell cuttings from those trees after I pruned them?  I couldn't rely on what I actually got from you?  I know my own care in labeling trees is very careful, so any mix-up would not be on my end.

I think anybody that sells fig cuttings should indicate whether or not they are a licensed nursery and subject to annual inspections, but that's just my opinion.

Harvey,
Fig cultivation and gardening is a hobby for me, I currently have no plans to sell any fig related products. Per your scenario, IMO, it would be your responsibility to ensure that your product was the correct cultivar. There have been many instances of mislabeling from reputable sources, you could be perpetuating that mistake.

But my original comment was directed to ED, It was not an indictment on your sale of cuttings.
Financial concerns aside, Would you agree that growing out the cultivar to harvest would provide a more definitive confirmation of the cultivar that you would be selling?

it wasn't too long ago when large quantity of RdB cuttings were auction off ebay and lot of members got burnt. the tree was not grown by the seller and he went by what his neighbor said.. or something like that. not sure what the full story was. i think people are rather concerned with that and other issue from the past.

i'm sure Socorro Black in this discussion has more reliable source and harvey will back it up if something goes wrong. i don't question others too much about what i'm trading with. their word is good with me and if something goes wrong, i just won't trade with that person again. but when money gets involved, things can get ugly. 

Pete, growing a cultivar to harvest can help but, as I already said, it is not going to provide 100% confidence.  Again, fruits appear differently in different climates.  Nobody has mentioned leaves yet.  I do compare leaves and use that as a guide.  One tree I bought from another member here did not match up and I pointed that out to him and he apologized and made a refund (which I said beforehand was not being requested).  Once that tree fruits for me I still won't be selling it as a named variety as I already know it's wrong.

Hobbyists can come up with many different ideas of what they would like to see put into practice but that does mean it will be put into commercial practice.  Most nurseries in the USA do not grow fruit/nuts on their own mother trees.  For instance, when UC Riverside bred and released the citrus variety 'Tango', it was released through CCPP with a limit of 12 buds per nursery.  Within a year, there were hundreds of thousands of Tango trees being sold.  Some people here at F4F have bought trees from Burnt Ridge Nursery.  This is a small nursery and I visited the place in 2000.  I am pretty certain that owner Michael Dolan doesn't produce any fig fruits yet he sells fig trees.  At the same time, he does produce different chestnuts and also sell chestnut trees.  Many of his chestnut trees that he sells are mislabeled.  I know this from first hand experience as well as from hearing from several others who have experienced the same problems.  So how well does the fact that his mother trees produce nuts help?  Duarte Nursery in California produces something more than 10 million trees and vines each year and most of these are varieties that they don't fruit.  Many are produced in tissue culture and then grown in greeenhouses.  This is a commercially accepted practice.  If I'm not mistaken, Jon has also sold cuttings from varieties that have not yet fruited for him.  Doing so helps get the diversity spread out more quickly.

The cuttings I've sold have made it clear if they have fruited for me or not.  I make a careful judgment on the source and take great care in labeling of my new plants (rarely, I find a plant that has a lost label and I through the plant away).  I believe my actions are prudent.

By the way, Socorro Black to produce fruits for me, but they were too late in the year to fully mature so I did not even try eating them or take photos.

Harvey,
Thank you for answering my question.
I am aware that its not viable due to financial concerns, especially since the advent of tissue culturing and I have no illusion that it would ever be practiced commercially.

The Socorro Black looks to be an interesting cultivar, Hopefully it will be more available for trialing in other Zones.

Pete, if you want cuttings, just let me know. :)

I am not just growing figs for financial reasons but I do need to pay bills also.  I spent another $500 last night to expand my indoor growing.

For some proof in the pudding, I have spent quite a bit of money in the past year buying varieties where I know they had not yet fruited for the buyer but I was eager to be able to give them a chance.  I am not selling any of those yet.  As I said earlier, if I consider the source to be very reliable, I think it's okay to sell.  In these cases, a second chain of title leaves too much risk, IMO.

Harvey,
Thanks for the offer, but I already have dozens of unknowns that were collected from NYC that I'm currently growing or will be starting this year.

Please keep us updated on the progress of your Socorro Black. Thanks.

Harvey, the last thing I want to do is cause a problem.  I enjoy your posts and the threads you have started.  Lets just say that I disagree with selling cuttings before they fruit for me.  No hard feelings.  Lets get back to any input as far as the fruit of the Socorro black.

Harvey you asked if it is more objectionable to kill a bird than a squirrel or rat.  The answer is, it depends on species.  It's actually a federal offense to kill any native bird in the US or posses the eggs, feathers or nests of any native bird in the US unless it is classified as a game bird such as ducks, quale and turkeys.  If it is a game bird state and federal laws regarding hunting season and licensing apply.  It is legal to kill any exotic bird for any reason unless it is an endangered species, but it is illegal to collect eggs, feathers or nests so as to prevent international trafficking.  Laws protecting birds are strict as heck!  God bless.

I have a Socorro Black that I bought from Harvey last year via EBay. I am in Zone 5B and it will be interesting to compare fruit eventually as there are obviously many different parameters. No signs of fig embryos yet but I have my fingers  crossed.