So, did one of my 'giant' layers recently, & took a few pics to illustrate. I reckon I must have layered the equivalent of 6 yrs growth - maybe more. Is there any interest here in seeing the method described in an old thread of mine? If so, I'll post the link later, & upload the pics to illustrate.

Or maybe I should wait until the layer is proved to be viable a few months after being detached from mummy tree? Any opinions considered.

Processes over time are always instructive...even fails. Share away.

yes Costas, please share:)

ok guys, you asked for it. I'll upload soon, then update the thread after it's been detached and (hopefully) growing on its own in its new site - a kinda progress report you might say. Howzat? 

Yes.....photo montage of the Greek style.  I'm sure your new layers will be just as successful as your other documented and photographed air-layers, but if the new ones fail, and I hope they don't....so what.  Failures can be informative too.

Your old Greek Style thread deserves to be seen by all our new members who may not know about it.  It was a great read.

Frank

Looking forward to any pictures.

Yes, a thread that bumps up with updates would be great!  Looking forward to seeing how this is done!

Hey there Frank. Wouldn't wanna tempt fate or make myself a hostage to fortune, or even lay myself wide open to the charge of hubris, but I've never had a 'giant' air layer fail on me. I repeat - never.

Having said that, I'm the first to admit there's always a first time, and this is almost certainly the biggest air layer I've ever attempted, so the opportunities for ending up with egg on my face are many, rich and varied. Time will tell if I have over-reached myself this time, but basically, I had very little choice in the matter. This garden is about to change hands (along with the house that is attached to it), and I'm layering a tree that will very soon no longer be ours, so I had to make the best of limited time and opportunity. If it fails, at least I'll know the limits of what is possible. To date, I've managed to layer 4 years' growth, so this is at least 50% bigger than anything I've previously attempted.

I'm also speculatively layering a bay-leaf bush, and a plum tree that produces fruit that looks like a very large cherry (also the subject of another thread). I have no idea if they will 'take', but figure it's worth trying anyway just in case. The potential reward will be so much greater than any disappointment arising from their failure. If I only get 1 out of the 3, I'll be a happy bunny. Set my expectations deliberately low so I won't be too disappointed. 

Anyway, I'm touched by the level of interest shown thus far in this thread, and thank you also for your kind words about my original thread on the subject. High praise indeed.

Let the games begin....   Show everyone your huge air-layer.


Frank

Hey, are you doubting mine's bigger than yours?

ok, I wasn't gonna upload until I completed 'Phase II', but guess there's no reason why I shouldn't upload the work in progress - ie Phase I. Just so you know what you'll be looking at:

Phase I - Main air-layer. This is basically the entire tree from around 5' off the ground. Haven't actually measured gross tree height, but I estimate around 12'. That means the layer is around 7' high. The pics only go as far as Phase I at the moment.

Phase II - To be completed on Tuesday. Near the base of the layer are 3 satellite main branches that will themselves be layered. There are 2 reasons for adding a Phase II on this occasion - 

1) The size and 'volume' of the layer makes it unwieldy and difficult to handle/transport, etc., unless these branches are removed. I didn't want to just cut and throw them away (or use them for cuttings), so decided that subsidiary layers were the answer. So you could say 4 for the 'price' of 1, in effect, though in practice the cost is actually doubled coz sphagnum moss isn't exactly cheap over here.

2) These branches will be removed before the main layer, the effect of which should be to reduce the demand made on its root system. In theory at least, the chances of viability of the main air-layer are thus improved, coz its root system now has less to support. Well, that's the theory. The practice may turn out differently.

Anyway, I won't keep you in suspenders too much longer.

Patience guys & gals. Or haven't you heard - it's a virtue.

OK, it's showtime folks. 1st pic shows the target tree, with the 'doughnut' already in place. I think I used 2 black sacks for this d'nut, just to be on the safe side. It's about 4' - 4.5' above ground level, and secured with a wire tie. If you don't have that, string will do, but don't over-tighten.

As you can see, there are branches below the intended layer, so the new owners will still get their figs - assuming they like them. Otherwise, they can always give them to us! The 3 main branches that will be the subject of PHASE II are clearly visible - pics of those layers will follow later.

Next, prepare your container. For this size layer I had to use the largest I could find that was also workable and flexible enough to wrap around the tree. I haven't measured its volume, bit I reckon it's around 15 litres. PHASE II will call for 3x3litre containers. This one is actually the container that houses our halloumi when we occasionally bulk-buy. It works out cheaper - supposedly.

I used a hack-saw and an exceptionally strong scissor-type tool to do the cutting down one side, half way across the bottom, then the hole to accommodate the main stem/trunk.

 

Sorry, slightly out of sequence - a close-up of the d'nut.

Costas,

I have a potted Sals Corleone that is very close in size and shape as yours. I am planning on doing the same thing as you are to shorted my tree and send the rootball to another fig friend I promised last Fall.

I plan on using just about the same size pot as yours but I want to cut at least three girdles all around. I want optimum roots growth because we only have one season to complete this.

Think we can compare notes as the season goes?

OK, quick break from the slide show folks.

Sure we can Rafed. I've also used multiple wounds in the past, but still not convinced that makes much difference in terms of success or failure. Intuitively, you would think the more roots the better, and I can't argue with that.

It's just that I've found that a single wound works just as well - providing you do it near the top of the container of course. That gives the roots the space they need to grow downwards, which is their natural direction of growth. 

Anyroad, to continue the story..............

I prefer to 'girdle' either all or most of the way around the trunk. I know some of you prefer less destructive methods, but I leave that to you and whatever risks you want to take that might affect your chances of success. The fluid you see around the wound is mainly rooting gel, but you can use powder if you prefer. This wound is about 1.25 - 1.5" in length, and as I mentioned to Rafed, cut near the top of where the container will sit. I would allow at least 1" of sphag. moss cover above the top of the girdle.

Thanks,

I usually mix a little moss with the soil but I'll try your method too.

OK, now comes the 'clever' bit. Wrap your container around the trunk so that it sits on the d'nut, then tie some string around it. This is necessary of course to stop it opening up whilst you're filling it with the moss, or at any later stage in the cycle.

This particular plastic is ideal - flexible enough to allow for such manipulation without breaking wide open. If yours breaks, don't panic. Just use strong adhesive tape to put it back together again, and again circle with string for that extra security and strength.


   .

Hmm, that's an %ing idea that has also occurred to me, but never tried it coz I wanted guaranteed success, which this method has always given me. If it works, fine. It would certainly be cheaper, but your container will be quite heavy at this size, so you'd better make sure it's strong enough to take the extra weight.  

Well, you know what's next, right? Fill the darn thing with sphag. moss, or whatever you think works as well, but then don't blame me if yours bites the dust. If it works, fine. Let me know, so I can save myself a small fortune. 

Here's the container in context to give you an idea of size and relative scale.

 

Costas,

Are you going to cover the pot or leave it open?
Aren't you worried the moss will dry up? Or is there another reason for it?

Oh, and no worries on the blame part. We all know you mean every good intention.
What works for one could be a disaster for another. It's the chance many of us take.

Thanks

Costas,

Thanks for sharing the pictures and your procedure...
 
But mine is bigger ; )

Costa,
I'm sure I speak for many of us here who love seeing this type of stuff. That is the largest air layer I have ever seen. Please keep us abreast with the progress and GOOD LUCK to you and also to you Pete.
Awesome.

Hey guys, hold your horses there. I'm not quite done yet. I had to take a short break, if you know what I mean.

And finally (for now anyway), the completed layer in context, and this time I think I managed to get nearly all the tree inside the frame - no mean feat I can tell you. More to follow later.


 

Right now I'd like to grow the tree to the right of the picture.
Too bad we don't have the climate for it.

@ Pete - Well, there had to be one, didn't there? But I have to say, your container looks too small in relation to the diameter of that trunk. Even so, I wish you every success with yours.

@ Rafed - You mean the loquat tree, right? Also one of my favorites, hence my username.  We have several, and we used to get ripe fruit every summer from them - until they went native on me and started to flower in the fall instead of spring. Also the subject of other threads initiated by me. Because of the mild winter we've just had, this is possibly the first year we'll see ripe fruit again since they went native on us around 5 years ago.

I kind of figured that's where your name came from since I saw the picture.
It is an awesome fruit.

There are so many other fruit trees I would love to have but I live in the wrong climate.
To move my family away from their friends and relatives over a fruit tree is just not fair for them.

So I make the best of what I can get.

Maybe one day when I move to a bigger place I can build my dream greenhouse.

@ Rafed - I hope the subsequent post answered most of your questions, but thx for reminding me re. moisture. I check the moss for moisture about 1 month after its installation, and top-up as necessary. I judge it based purely on touch, as I don't know any other way. After that, I check every f/night, coz you gotta remember that the developing roots will consume increasing amounts of water as they grow. For this size layer, I will have to make an educated guess that it will be ready for removal after about 10-12 weeks, and in the final weeks, I might even check moisture level at weekly intervals. 

Because of the lack of easy visual checks, I may end up removing the cover, take the string off the container, and then very carefully partially open the container along the cut in order to ensure that the roots have reached all the way to the bottom. I would then be fairly confident that the layer will survive detachment from the parent plant.

Hope that helps, but if you have any other queries, let me know.

Oh yeah, here's that link where I originally described my method:

http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/zone-air-layering-5418136?pid=1269578965#post1269578965

Yes,
Your post helped answer the question.

When I checked on my air layers and if they looked like they need a little drink I would use a plastic syringe and inject it into the soil and place a piece of tape to seal the hole. I would do it in different parts in small amounts. 

I looked at your profile and it says you're from London. Is this London England?
Are your winters that mild to where you can grow Loquats?

Yes, London England, and depends on what you mean by mild. This year the temp did not drop below -2C, which our loquats easily survive. Our lowest is usually around -5 to -6C, which in theory is also survivable, but crucially, if it snows, the blossom or setting fruit is destroyed unless I take protective measures.

This year, it didn't even snow, so I didn't need to protect the blossom or setting fruit. Having said that, our springs are obviously not as warm/hot as our summers, so the only remaining question is whether we'll get enough sunshine now to ripen the fruit over the next 2-3 months.

Again, time will tell, but if the fruit can hang onto the tree long enough, then it's just possible it might get some summer sunshine too. I'll update you on my loquat thread when I get the answers.

@ James - Thx for the kind words. Appreciated, & glad you found this thread of interest. I'll update as & when there is more to report.

Thanks for the info.
Compared to where I'm at, your winter is mild. Trust me on this one.
Especially this past winter where we dipped to well below -25f quite a few times. I think this is -31c if I'm not mistaken.

Hope all is well with the Loquat and your other trees.

Well, there's plenty of small, unripe and undamaged fruit on it, so the omens are good so far. As I said, I'll update on that topic too when there's more to report. 

Yeah, I heard about the 'vortex' that affected most of N. & central US this winter. That was a tough one for most plant life to get thru unscathed. Maybe a greenhouse would have helped, but it would have to be heated to make enough difference, and that ain't gonna be cheap, is it?

Anyroad, must sign off now folks. Way past my bedtime, & gotta take the missus to hospital first thing this morning.

Speak again soon.

Sayonara, buenas noches, kali nichta, etc etc.

Just reviewed my slide show, and noticed this part didn't appear for some reason, tho I actually remember writing it up. Bizarre, and no wonder Rafed queried the lack of covering. So, here it is again, and hopefully it will appear this time.

As best as I can recall, the description went along the following lines, tho the 2nd para. is additional:

Cover the whole shebang with any light-excluding material, such as a black sack, and again secure with a wire tie or string. Apparently, roots don't like direct light, which is why they grow mainly underground. The opaque container also helps in this respect, but suffers from the disadvantage that it prevents direct visual inspection of the progress of root growth.

That's a real shame, coz I rely on visual clues to tell me when the layer is ready for severing. The covering also conserves the moisture, so you won't need to top up so often. 

BTW Rafed, based on advice I read on the web, I also tried layering my main loquat tree. All attempts failed - a complete waste of time, so I don't know why the authors thought it possible. The bark simply regrew over the wound - I assume in an attempt to effect a repair of the 'damaged' area. Very strange, and not so much as even a hint of a root. I gave up after about 4 attempts. Some trees are simply not suitable for layering. Ours were all grown from the stone.

That is a huge air layer!  Wow!  My air layers are on much smaller branches, but my trees are all smaller too!  I have a lot of respect for the old ways.  No science involved.  Just methods that work passed down through the generations.  My favorite method of rooting cuttings came from the advice of an old Greek.  It is to just lay them in a trench, cover with soil in partial sun, sprinkle them now and then and be surprised when one day they pop up as little trees.  I leave them in their spots for a few months to be sure they have good root systems.  No mold, rot or fungus gnats with that method.

Nice photos.  Thanks for sharing!

Suzi

@Costas, very impressive. You should tram the tops too, since the tree is still dormant. that way there will be less for the tree to cary. I have been air layering my Dorset and  Fuji, stared in end December and I am just starting to see some very few white roots towards the cellophane wrap... 3 months... when do I cut the trunk separate?
 

@ Suzi:

[QUOTE]My air layers are on much smaller branches, but my trees are all smaller too! [/QUOTE]

That's the point Suzi. The problem with this tree is that it's too tall to reach the fruit on the top branches without a ladder. I prefer to just reach out and pick my fruit without going chair or ladder hunting. In that respect, I'm as lazy as the next guy.

So that's usually the point at which I decide that it's time to layer the tree. It restores everything back to within easy reach without waste, otherwise you're just throwing away years of useful growth. Even if you didn't want the layer yourself, most people have friends or relatives who would thank you for it. This one is going either to a close relative (ie one of my children), or to the care home where my mother-in-law resides. Or possibly even to a close neighbor. I'll let them fight over it.

@ Aaron

[QUOTE]You should tram the tops too, since the tree is still dormant. that way there will be less for the tree to carry.[/QUOTE]

Maybe you missed the posts above where I described this as a 2-phased project. The main branches at the base of the layer will each have their own layers, which by definition removes at least one third of the burden on the main layer.

Also, although not easily visible from these photos (taken mainly from a distance in order to get most of the tree in the frame and facing the sun - which doesn't help), the shoots have actually turned green and started to sprout leaves. My guess is that dormancy is now over, and besides, I'm too greedy to start pruning now (except possibly for cuttings). 

[QUOTE]I have been air layering my Dorset and  Fuji, stared in end December and I am just starting to see some very few white roots towards the cellophane wrap... 3 months... when do I cut the trunk separate?[/QUOTE]

Hmm, I'm a bit wary about advising others when to remove a layer, notwithstanding this thread. I rely on direct visual inspection of the root system to assess when my layers are ready, and since this option is not open to me for your layer, I can only give general advice.

Firstly, is the root system florid? Do most (or at least a lot of the) roots reach to the bottom of the container? Have they started to change color from white to various shades of off-white, brown and orange, etc? If your answer to all these questions is yes, then I'd say your layer was ready for 'excision'.

Sorry I can't be more specific, but as I said, a lot of this is down to judgement based on a visual inspection. Going by your description, I'd say you need another 4-6 weeks before you can consider separation. But whatever you do, don't forget to keep it moist. And I've always found that a very dilute liquid feed in the latter weeks also helps. 

BTW, this tree is an Italian Purple. Not the creme de la creme for taste, etc, but has the distinct advantages of being an early ripener, hardy, and prolific. And the flavor is more than acceptable to boot.

All in all, a good all-rounder. Almost all our friends and relatives have expressed their disbelief that this fruit actually grows and ripens to this level of flavor and sweetness in England. So there you go.

thanks for the advise Costas, we can all see how vigorously your tree has grown, good variety... :)

Hey Frank - where are you? You've gone strangely quiet since you challenged me to 'display my wares'. Have I disappointed? If so, don't worry. There's more to come.

Costas,

I'm looking, but quietly.  You whipped out a very impressive air-layer!  That's some stick you got there.  I'll leave it at that.  Carry on.

Frank

Ah, there you are. Glad you're still alive & kicking, & hope you found the thread instructive, if not %ing.