On January 13, 2013 I grafted a scion of Black Madeira onto a small tree of Brown Turkey that I picked up at Lowe's to see if it might increase vigor.  I didn't do a control (un-grafted) tree at the same time for comparison although I do have a younger Black Madeira tree planted in the ground next to it now.  I believe it is probably growing more vigrous than is typical so I'm satisfied with the results.  I picked a late season fruit from the tree this evening.

 

Hi Harvey

Nice tree and much nicer fig
Congratulations !

I have been waiting to see a  BM grown in your environment, and treated as it deserves
It will be a very prolific fig and the size you have shown may well be the standard if not fruit pruned.
In a couple of years  there will be various crates at the farmer's market at premium prices!!
If it follows its ancestors, pinching will not be required.

Did you bud or graft on the BT ??
Coming spring will graft or bud Violeta on DFIC0023, Belmandil and on a nice young wild.

Francisco
Portugal

That's incredible, Harvey. Congrats.! I've tried to do the same thing but failed spectacularly.

Great work Harvey.

Yes, nice work Harvey! Wish I had the skills to do grafting.

Good work!  I have also tried 2 or 3 grafts on figs and a couple on persimmons only to have them fail.  It's hard to learn from watching youtube videos.  I think it would be really useful to attend a grafting class so I will need to keep my eyes open for this in my area.  I want to try grafting a couple Col de Dames and maybe Black Madeira onto a Florea rootstock next Spring.

Harvey, I really believe, from the little I have done that grafting improves the  growth and eventually the production. My Madeira grow almost 2 feet in one year (it was grafted onto the root still in the ground- overwintered in the hole, and now it is in a pot) it branched at one foot tall, and I removed an airlayer for my bestest fig friend, Slavi.  so, now it is a 8" stub about 1/2" thick and it is puting out 3 buds... I can hardly wait to see what it will do.  Many have said it does not grow here.

I will post later my grafted panachee for comparison... it is incredible... I learned grafting tomatoes from you, my friend...I have multiplied my Riesce to many more, by grafting its little suckers onto others...

Grafting it is fun.   That B M looks absolutely amazing.. hope you get many more.  If it was mine- I'd say is time to tie its branches down, so it sends out more side growth.

Am I understanding correctly that the goal in grafting is to invigorate a slow growing variety onto a more vigorous root stock? Or is there some other reason or benefit? 

Beautiful, Harvey. I'm wondering how low the graft is, and if BT suckering becomes an issue?

[QUOTE=cyberfarmer]Am I understanding correctly that the goal in grafting is to invigorate a slow growing variety onto a more vigorous root stock? Or is there some other reason or benefit? [/QUOTE]

There are many reasons to graft, the foremost being having several varieties on one tree.  Often a cross pollinator will be grafted on the same tree rather than needing a separate tree and the space and care that requires. 

Since the rootstock typically dictates the trees vigor it makes sense to graft a less vigorous but "better" fig onto a more vigorous rootstock.  Trading a BM for a BT is a no brainer if you have Harvey's skills!

That's pretty cool, Harvey!

Looks amazing Harvey, 
I'm looking at the dryness of the soil and amazing growth of the tree, my brain is having hard time tying them together...LOL

Thanks everybody for the encouraging responses.  I used a cleft graft for the graft because it's worked well for me in the past.  I am very successful in grafting just about anything but, for reasons I don't understand, budding have always been much more difficult for me so I typically just avoid budding (even for citrus).  The graft is made about 8" above soil level, I believe (was done when a potted BT was in my greenhouse for about 3-4 weeks, waiting until it was showing some growth before making the graft).  The biggest thing with grafting is to make sure the cambium layers are aligned and, since bark thickness may be different on rootstock than scion, I suspect some people may make a mistake by aligning the outer bark surface.  I wrap the scion with Parafilm (BuddyTape, actually), use a grafting rubber for the union (cut rubber band would be fine), and then wrap the scion with more Parafilm.  If weeping of the union is excessive, I will sometimes make diagonal cuts in different areas a few inches below the union to slow that down since I suspect excessive sap/latex may inhibit healing of the graft union.  I don't think I'm as good as a grafter as Grasa has become!  Still no success in root grafts for me.

I don't believe it's been talked about much lately but years ago in the infancy of this forum it was commonly said that Black Madeira was difficult to root.  I've not investigated the root system of other Black Madeira trees I have growing but this background lead me to believe it was worth trying other rootstock for Black Madeira.

Suckering has not been a significant issue.  I trimmed off some growth emerging from the trunk below the graft union a couple of months ago and all of the growth in the photo is from the Black Madeira.  I believe I pretty much had this tree pruned to a 15" single trunk at the beginning of the year since I wanted new growth to be able to train on the same wire supporting my drip line.  So pretty much 4'-6' of growth on several branches this year.

Aaron, the soil is not very dry but the soil does crack near the surface a lot because of clay and silt content.  Water table is at about 3'-4' right now and will raise during the winter months, thus planting the trees on a berm.  The trees are irrigated with drip.  I had been running drip for just an hour or so about once a week figuring roots will go down to lower moisture but have been running drip much longer lately in hopes that will speed up fruit ripening on the last of my fruit.  A recent soil test also revealed I have some sodium in the soil so I'm trying to leach that away from the trees (source of sodium is unknown, was a bit of a surprise).  I also discovered potassium level is very low and that will be addressed with potash and I'll apply gypsum as well to help deal with sodium.  I'm not set up at present to fertigate this orchard but may change that next spring.

Harvey, How much of the tree in the picture is Black Madeira and how much is Brown Turkey? Did you graft just above the soil line or are just one of the branches pictured BM? Fruit looks good too.

Rich, I wrote above in my preceding post, that all growth in the photo is Black Madeira and that my graft is about 8" above soil.  There were some suckers of BT coming from trunk but those were removed about two months ago and no re-growth yet.

[QUOTE=HarveyC]Rich, I wrote above in my preceding post, that all growth in the photo is Black Madeira and that my graft is about 8" above soil.  There were some suckers of BT coming from trunk but those were removed about two months ago and no re-growth yet.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Harvey I missed that. Looks like a great idea. Might be something worth marketing?

Rich, hadn't thought of that, but maybe something worth looking into.  I've usually grafted onto a larger tree but shipped smaller trees for selling since they are easier/cheaper to ship.  Maybe could do whip/tongue grafts on smaller trees or give budding a try again.

Thank you Harvey for this great post! ... and good luck on all your future grafts
I am glad you have given us all that great detail of what you have done and.. shown/documented the nice results.
Congrats !
The subject has been appearing in this forum on a few occasions and from the general feedback, I was becoming almost 'convinced' that grafting figs was sort of a sin !
 
Found this long, priceless and VERY interesting video   on grafting/budding  wall nuts and what is said here, will also apply to figs, practically with no modifications.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQv65gYTtNU

I am now in a process of building a double blade knife, a simple and precious tool if one does patch budding, which is the most used method for figs in my area. You may also see this method on the video.
It always has great chances of success  if done properly.. you will have at least 3 if not 4 lines of guaranteed cambium contact between stock and scion. This budding is to done in spring, as soon as buds start getting more volume.

Francisco
Portugal

That sounds interesting, Francisco.  I had not even considered a patch bud.  Before I first started grafting chestnuts about 12 years ago someone suggested I might want to try patch buds like used in walnuts.  I searched and found an old one for sale on eBay and it has been sitting in a box ever since as I found bark grafts, cleft grafts, and whip and tongue grafts to work very well on chestnuts.  This double-bladed knife appears to have been home-made from two Tina knives.  Don't have time to watch that long video right now but will bookmark it.

Harvey,

Keep that 2blade Tina knife ! They are rarities now. Tried to find one of any brand to no success.
Will make my own with 2 old style shoemaker' cutter blades made by a friend .

For more common size tree limbs, patch or 'T' budding are my preferred.
For lighter stuff 'whip and tongue' does marvels.. quite efficient
For thicker root stocks, come the cleft, bark and rind series

One tricky part when taking a patch (whatever format) with a live bud from the parent limb, sort of snap-off clever push ( well illustrated by Alex on the video) one has to make sure that the bud comes off complete (with its heart! - a tiny protrusion on the inside of the patch just under the bud). Scion variety genetics are stored into this 'heart'.

These jobs are made early morning, no exposure to direct sun rays.. and  ideally, immediately after the New Moon day. Strong root stocks should be gashed to avoid excessive sap flooding the grafts..

Follows some pictures of successful patch budding of 'Inchario Preto' on Caprifig

Francisco
Portugal



Done in the fall 2010, stayed dormant through winter and sprouting early spring 2011.
Two patch 'rectangles' on the same wild limb.

   

One year after,....

 

 

 

This is great stuff, thankyou Harvey and Lampo for sharing your info. I have a healthy unknown that demonstrates very vigorous rooting and growth, but it could be a San Pedro type. I have been planning to giving it next summer to see what is does and then start using it as a root stock for some varieties such as BM that don't show strong root growth.

I wish I had a grandfather like him.

For the bargain price of $100 you can buy a budding knife like I bought 10 years or so ago....
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271646590848

Okay, with Francisco's encouragement, I've embarked upon some further experimenting.  I don't have a large Brown Turkey to experiment with but decided that UCR 184-15 was a good choice for rootstock as it has rooted and grown vigorously for me.

I'm trying a two-pronged approach.  I dug out my twin blade Tina grafting knife (one blade is marked 671) and budded six Black Madeira buds onto my large UCR 184-15 in the ground.  I figure this probably should have been done a month ago but I hadn't really thought of it at the time and was buried in chestnut harvest at the time.  Still, I'll go ahead and hope that the mild weather we're having is sufficient for the bud matches to callus and I will then probably prune off those branches and root them.  Below is a photo of my UCR 184-15 with five of the buds marked with blue tape so I can find them easier when the trees are going dormant.  I also pruned off a branch from the UCR 184-15 and prepared two cuttings for rooting after I budded each to Black Madeira and am trying to root them now and hope that the patch bud will also heal and start growing.  This is using the same method I used for most of my rooted cuttings late last year and early this year, using Pro-Mix HP and wrapping exposed portion of cutting with BuddyTape (Parafilme).  I may try this again later but am expecting it will probably become more difficult to lift buds when the trees go dormant.  Maybe I'll use some grafts as well.
 
 
 

 
 
 
 

Good luck Harvey and thanks for more pics. Up till this last post, I couldn't really see what was so special about that knife. Now it makes perfect sense to me, the bud graft and accepting scion are an exact match. Do you then always cut the bud piece a little larger and slightly whittle the sides to make an exact fit onto the scion?

Thanks, Calvin.  I had never used the knife until today even though I bought it about 10 years ago for something like $50-$60 (I see now that it sells new for about $200).  After watching the video Francisco posted, I know better how to use it and the expert long-time grafter said to make the patch smaller than the opening in the stock as matching up on the sides doesn't really matter.  Because of the odd position I was working in for some of my grafts (mostly because I was trying to place bud on the side of the branch facing the sun to the south to aid in callusing), some of my side cuts were not at right angles and I did have to trim a couple of them.

Also, I found that I was unable to slide the Black Madeira patch off like shown in that video.  I don't know if it's because figs are just different or because they are no longer actively growing (but they are still growing somewhat).  I used the brass bud lifter to help get under the bud to lift it and to make sure I obtained the "heart" of the bud.

Overall, it seems like a very simple process and I like it and will definitely use it more often if these buds grow for me.

Harvey,

That's a very nice job ! well done.
Congratulations.

Being done in the fall, they stand a good chance of taking up but to remain dormant until coming spring.
Inspecting the job in 3 ..4 weeks time you will know exactly what happened.

On the budded cuttings you put to root, I would wax the top cut on the stock, thus keeping the juices inside to avoid losses by evaporation and insure a longer flow of stored nutrients . (may be you have covered it with the film,.? cannot clearly see)
I would also cutoff eventual live buds left on this same stock....all available energies going to the scion patch.

Using this method you guarantee automatic and perfect cambium contact on the top and horizontal cuts, which are the most important, plus at least one (or even the two) of the vertical cuts.

Good luck!
Francisco
Portugal

Thanks, Francisco. Yes, the cuttings have been wrapped in film as I've done with all of my cuttings.

In citrus budding we typically leave the other buds alone until the new bud's unions have sealed then we will bend or cut off the top and start removing lower growth.  I plan to leave the other buds alone until things start growing and decide then what to do.

The biggest concern I had with this is the lack of good slipping and uncertainty if I was truly getting the "heart" of the bud.

The video is great, I watched about half of it last night. Thanks for bringing it up again Harvey and thanks for posting it Francisco. At work all videos are blocked to preserve data flow so sometimes I forget that a video was ever part of a thread. I'll be watching the rest soon.

Congrats Harvey. Envy what you are doing. Here it is a little challenging as I have to do it in a pot and have it planted when
it grows bigger. Main constrain is the season is a little too short before cooler weather changes things.

Thanks, Paul.  Yes, I imagine that a more vigorous root system could have drawbacks for those growing in pots.

Someone else asked me if a tree on more vigorous roots would mature fruit earlier in the season and I can't really answer that yet.

Rootstock selection has long been used to control size, disease resistance, and fruiting habits of various fruit trees, it would surprise me if that wasn't the case for figs.   
Even grapes, which are easily grown on their own roots like figs, are sometimes grafted onto rootstocks.   It would make an interesting study to use a variety that produces early fruits, like Florea, and graft it over to a late ripening variety or one known for not fruiting at a young age, and see whether rootstock affects the ripening time, etc.   

Great stuff guys, I feel like I may try some patch budding this spring.

Harvey, how far apart are those blades?  Look to be about an inch??
I need to make one for myself.

Greg, Frostproof.com says the blades are 1.125" apart and that seems about right.  I was thinking it could be less than that but the wood below the bud (on the budwood) always seems to have some unusual growth that makes it uneven so I think it's good to start a cut well below the bud.  The blades are sharpened on only the edge facing the outside.  This seems ideal for the bud patch but opposite of what I think would be ideal for the cut being made on the stock.  I think any sort of blade should work fine for this sort of work, maybe try blades for a carpet knife.

Not to hijack your thread Harvey, but here is a nice article I just read on patch grafting for olives if anyone wants to read it: http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/8115.pdf.

So far, no buds have pushed from the above buds after taking cuttings from these branches and starting them in the rooting process.  Still am hoping for some to push but would have been better to do this earlier in the year.

For those who would like one of these Tina budding knives, there is one on eBay now starting at $100 http://www.ebay.com/itm/181614659277 (appears to be new, unused, so decent deal since it's less than half of the cost of a new one bought at retail.)

I had 2 folks asking me about grafting and budding tonight and I referred one friend to this thread.  When I tried this I knew it was not a good time of year but it's when I had time to try it.  I'd like to try it again now but simply don't have the time but think others should.

That tree looks amazingly, you have any more recent photos of it?  I am planning on trying to do some grafting onto cuttings since I dont have much rootstock yet. As for that knife, thats a really cool setup!

That is awesome Harvey, congrats!

Yes, I have more photos of my grafted BM but I'm using this thread now to promote the idea of trying some of these patch budding methods.  Maybe I can try some later this week but I'd like to see how it works out for others as well.

My grafted Black Madeira at the end of 2015 was about 10 times the size of a non-grafted one, each being the same age of 3 years old.  About 7' of growth on the longest branches vs. 4'.

[QUOTE=HarveyC]Yes, I have more photos of my grafted BM but I'm using this thread now to promote the idea of trying some of these patch budding methods.  Maybe I can try some later this week but I'd like to see how it works out for others as well.

My grafted Black Madeira at the end of 2015 was about 10 times the size of a non-grafted one, each being the same age of 3 years old.  About 7' of growth on the longest branches vs. 4'.[/QUOTE]
Hi Harvey, how r u
This is my first post here. I am from Canada and got cuttings from u this season.

Good cuttings and they are growing. Thanks for that.

I want to try grafting also on three of my brown turkey plants last year I bought $3 each.

They are kind of one year old and now I woke them early by putting inside.
They are of 3/4 inch dia.

I will use the grafting tool , I bought from Lee valley.

My question was how to control the drip or sap during grafting ??

I noticed in your discussion that dripping could kill grafting.

And if I stop watering them before grafting , will it work? In this case how long we could stop watering after grafting??
Thanks

  Hi Raaz,

    I wouldn't assume to speak for Harvey,  but in that he stays quite busy, it may be a little while before he sees your post and is able to respond to your question.  I have sat with him at his home through several days of grafting multiple cultivars, and can give you what he taught me about relieving the sap flow.

   If fluids have begun to push through your host plant, Harvey makes several superficial cuts, just below the grafting site, through the outer bark, and just into the cambium layer.  These cuts are not quite around the entire circumference of the trunk or branch being grafted onto...  but rather they encompass about 3/4 to 7/8 of the circumference.  The several slices are just 3/8 to 1/2" below one another, and the non-incised portion are offset from one-another. (The uncut portion of each slice is not immediately above or below the next uncut portion.  If you are familiar with automobile engines, you could substitute the piston rings for the slices.  The opening of each piston ring is set 1/3 offset from the next ring on the piston)

  The plant is not kept from its watering regime.  (Don't stop the appropriate watering of the plant, but remember that the foliage is no longer present on the plant, so water requirements are drastically reduced as evapotranspiration has all but stopped.) 

Thanks Bluemalibu.
I will do that.

You did well Blue, thanks.  You were also good in predicting my response. :)

  Well, I had a good instructor...

Hi Blue,

can u guide me one more thing that the humidity is 40 % and temperature is 24*C of the room where I am growing my cuttings .buds are coming out .

Is this much humidity is good ? or I should put plastic bags on the pots ??

last time I put plastic bags and fungus grew up in a day or two.

I am new in growing figs but I love it .

  Experience is the best teacher, Raaz.  For your conditions, you're being taught that more humidity = trouble.  While you will find some growers that promote humidity chambers, like you, they caused me to experience my only fig losses due to mold.  And the transition from humidity dome to ambient humidity has to be carefully orchestrated, or you will lose a large percentage of plants at that time.

  You are finding success with budding cuttings without the humidity chambers...   if it ain't broke, don't fix it!