Introduction : I am back to business with good intention . YES and ALWAYS ...
mnedelcu
Registered:
Posts: 571
Well...i don't know about all this stuff...but,regarding the title:yes,you can root a big/huge cutting,my biggest one was 2.7inches diam.
lolita1234
Registered:
Posts: 199
Thank you, mnedelcu
My next question : Can you air layer a cutting ?
Some of you might already saw some of my pictures before, but please tell me what do you think that air laying a cutting is possible or impossible
cyberfarmer
Registered:
Posts: 544
[QUOTE=lolita1234]Thank you, mnedelcu
My next question : Can you air layer a cutting ?
Some of you might already see some of my pictures before, but please tell me what do you think that air laying a cutting is possible or impossible[/QUOTE]
An air layer is made by causing roots to grow on a living branch (still attached to the tree until it grows roots). A cutting is just a piece of a branch. In the right conditions, it will root, but that is not an air layer. If you attach it to a living branch of a tree, it may attach itself and grow, but that is a graft - not an air layer.
pitangadiego
Registered:
Posts: 5,447
The "science" behind air-layering is that you are using the power of photosynthesis to produce new roots. Since a cutting does not have leaves, there is no photosynthesis, so no air-layer. All you are doing is rooting a cutting in the middle rather than at the bottom end.
waynea
Registered:
Posts: 1,886
Jon and Paul are correct by definition of "air layering" , the key word in the definition is a "branch" of a plant(tree) and a cutting is not a part of any definition, but I know what you are trying to explain, pretty darn neat.
lolita1234
Registered:
Posts: 199
Thank you cyberfarmer, pitangadiego and waynea for your input .
My third question : Can a huge (or a small size with 4,5,6 nods) cutting be rooted and air layered at the same time ?
Huge : trunk about 2 - 3" diameter, 5' or more in height
recomer20
Registered:
Posts: 402
It has been suggested that a huge limb or trunk can be buried sideways creating roots (and budding) at multiple nodes. It could then be chopped up into into multiple plants. I would guess the same thing could be accomplished by wrapping multiple nodes with medium (like an airlayer). As others pointed out, the term "airlayer" is usually reserved for rooting a section (branch, etc) of while the section is still attached to the host tree.
starch
Registered:
Posts: 123
If you do have a large cutting (which from experience does take a lot longer to root. I have a Sal's Gene that is about 1" in diameter that did root successfully but it took months) with lots of nodes, there might be another option also: Take a bud off the bottom of the cutting and graft it onto another fig tree you have via chip budding. For any cutting that I deem 'important', something that I really want to have, I will take one or two buds off (depending on the number of nodes on the original cutting) and chip bud it onto one of my mature trees. That way if the rooting fails or takes forever to root, I have a backup of that cultivar growing on a mature tree. I have become very proficient at chip budding and my take rate is very high. The downside is that you turned a mature fig into a frankenfig, but I don't mind.
lolita1234
Registered:
Posts: 199
How to root a cutting successfully---> I have demonstrated the art of bag rooting in this forum , so I do know the meaning of CUTTING Regarding air laying , I think I also know the art and meaning of AIR LAYING
Ask questions first and answer later is my style when I start a new topic
Rooting and air laying a cutting at the same time sounds weird to people, because it is something new , not written in any book before . But nothing is impossible .
smatthew
Registered:
Posts: 180
[QUOTE=lolita1234]Thank you, mnedelcu
My next question : Can you air layer a cutting ?
Some of you might already saw some of my pictures before, but please tell me what do you think that air laying a cutting is possible or impossible[/QUOTE]
Why are you asking a question that you've already decided the answer to? To brag?
lolita1234
Registered:
Posts: 199
Definitely not to brag but to share with people interesting things that just happened . Things that i could not believe my own eyes !
andreas
Registered:
Posts: 372
mai if you like to share info to help others learn, please do. i have learned many things in this forum myself. please dont turn it in to a puzzle and answer in caps if you dont like the answer people gave you. the answer to your question has benn given. you can not airlayer a cutting. you can only root it in a second place after you have started rooting in another part of it. but that is still rooting. it is not airlayering
lolita1234
Registered:
Posts: 199
recomer20 and starch, I appreciate your input
smatthew and andreas, This is figs 4 fun, so I am having fun with my fig stories . When I am going to give away my humble ideas , people should give me air to breathe and time to organize my thoughts . When I am digging my phone to upload pictures to photobucket , I started the topic because I am so excited with new discovery
I am slow . Give me time . Be patient . Of course I appreciate all the answers and maybe I am wrong to call a rooting ball (in the middle of a cutting) an air layer hehehe , because I could not find any other better word . I agree that my vocabulary in English is limited but at least I manage to express my ideas in a way that people can figure out what I am talking about . If you are in my shoes with Vietnamese , I bet that you will have same problem .
Nowhere I could find roots when I played with a huge branch. Is it true that a branch with no roots, no leaves ---> a cutting ? Is a branch freshly cut down (in dormant state) be considered as a live branch or a dead one ? 1) If it is considered as a live one (cutting with some vital sign), then a person who performs an air laying process at a particular area of that branch ----> what is the appropriate word for that part ? An air layer process ---> not just cover a particular part of the trunk with some medium . An air layer process is more than that 2) Else, no way to do anything except for trying to root the bottom end with misery ...
I ask myself, should I quit playing ???
lolita1234
Registered:
Posts: 199
This is one of the branches with several ... tin foil balls . They were done 30 minutes after the branch was buried in 5 G pot for rooting
Les bonbons de figue (French) ----> The fig candies (English) ---> Keo Sung (Vietnamese)
A HUGE cutting roots at the bottom end and the air layer also roots in winter time ! This is not a joke, this is reality ...
Thank you for watching
cyberfarmer
Registered:
Posts: 544
I would just call that rooting a cutting in two places at the same time. ...unless the "air layer" was made after the cutting was already rooted. Then I would go ahead and call it an air layer, but then I wouldn't call the host a cutting anymore since by the time it has roots and leaves it is already a small tree. Either you rooted a cutting in two places at once, or you started an air layer on a very small tree. Semantics ;)
Likeo
Registered:
Posts: 268
[QUOTE=lolita1234]How to root a cutting successfully---> I have demonstrated the art of bag rooting in this forum , so I do know the meaning of CUTTING Regarding air laying , I think I also know the art and meaning of AIR LAYING
Ask questions first and answer later is my style when I start a new topic
Rooting and air laying a cutting at the same time sounds weird to people, because it is something new , not written in any book before . But nothing is impossible .[/QUOTE] I have a Grapefrutit, do you?
jdsfrance
Registered:
Posts: 2,591
Hi lolita1234,
A branch cut from a tree is a cutting and no longer a tree. So you are rooting a cutting - call it semantics . Now, are you sure that you have roots in the pot ? A branch that big can behave like several branches/cuttings. Because they are still linked together, you may get roots everywhere but in the pot (see* below). But the bottom part will be fed by the other roots.
Sometimes when throwing trimming/cuttings to the ground or when burying part of an attached branch, I get roots in the middle of the cutting and at the former top, but not at the former bottom.
Now the problem you have is that if you want to separate those cuttings, you'll have to saw them and that will shake the tree ... and may brake the roots. you'll be creating a serious wound too on both of the "new trees". In such a case, IMO, it is best to cut them to smaller cuttings and root each one individually.
That experience is fun. Let us know what is the future for it in the topic of separating them into individual trees.
(*) Old wood is harder to root. I once had a tree that I could take cuttings of, but quickly (before it got bulldozed ). But it was left with the scaffold branches only (other people, or the former owner had taken all rootable branches) and the ones I took did not make it...
PetiteNegra
Registered:
Posts: 16
Goodness, the arrogance. What was the question for, if you've already got an answer? Why not just say that you wanted to share a new technique?
lolita1234
Registered:
Posts: 199
[QUOTE=jdsfrance]Hi lolita1234,
A branch cut from a tree is a cutting and no longer a tree. So you are rooting a cutting - call it semantics .
[/QUOTE]
You are correct, jdsfrance, I was rooting a Huge cutting some time between Thanksgiving and Christmas 2015
[QUOTE=jdsfrance]Hi lolita1234,
Now, are you sure that you have roots in the pot ?
[/QUOTE]
Yes, I am sure that there are roots in the pot . Please see the pictures below
As of today Saturday March 05, 2016
Upper part, above the tin foil ball [IMG]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a133/hongkhackimmai/d4ab9d06-3bfd-4c35-bb92-8e41bd8c2e67_zpsdrimrr7p.jpg[/IMG]
Some roots do show on the surface of the pot [IMG]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a133/hongkhackimmai/e8ecd7be-1d77-4c2d-88b0-6fdf2e339a53_zps3ln8qg0f.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=jdsfrance]
Because they are still linked together, you may get roots everywhere but in the pot (see* below). But the bottom part will be fed by the other roots. ................... ...........................
(*) Old wood is harder to root. I once had a tree that I could take cuttings of, but quickly (before it got bulldozed ). But it was left with the scaffold branches only (other people, or the former owner had taken all rootable branches) and the ones I took did not make it...
[/QUOTE]
My cutting was not linked to another tree or any other cutting, except that I tied it to a post so it could not be knocked over since it was high and unbalanced in a 5 G pot . You can see that my cutting does not have roots everywhere . Just from where I wanted them to be . In this case, only roots at the tin foil ball and at the bottom end (in the pot)
Old wood is harder to root as you quoted, I used to think that way too . But now since I saw the result, I can say that (what we thought before) is not true
[QUOTE=jdsfrance] .............
Sometimes when throwing trimming/cuttings to the ground or when burying part of an attached branch, I get roots in the middle of the cutting and at the former top, but not at the former bottom.
[/QUOTE]
You did not get roots at the former bottom because you did not root the cutting . You threw the trimming/cuttings in the ground and let the nature did the rest . Whatever you got was just purely luck, not your work
I can figure out why you did not get roots at the former bottom You did not bury the whole thing . The buried part and the middle of the cutting and the former top got rooted because they got the humidity they needed to root . The former bottom was too dry to root
[QUOTE=jdsfrance]Hi lolita1234,
Now the problem you have is that if you want to separate those cuttings, you'll have to saw them and that will shake the tree ... and may brake the roots. you'll be creating a serious wound too on both of the "new trees". In such a case, IMO, it is best to cut them to smaller cuttings and root each one individually.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your suggestions, but it is too late to do so . Anyway, I agree that the saw-all blade will make the roots both in the ball and in the pot fall apart, but that is not an issue for me to worry.
[QUOTE=jdsfrance]..... you'll be creating a serious wound too on both of the "new trees".
[/QUOTE]
Not at all . I love my work . I am able to bring them back as trees once the temp outside is stable . They will be happy new trees
Folks, There is no arrogance as accused . This is a debate
bamafig
Registered:
Posts: 119
So, how long did this process take? Specifically the pot roots of the big cutting? What are the ambient conditions in the room? Is this a known variety that roots easily?
bamafig, It is an unknown variety so far . The previous owner of the tree said it was a Celeste, but by the description of the fruit from her son, it does not sound a Celeste to me . I will find out when the fruits come out from the cuttings (hopefully) this coming summer .
Regarding your other questions, I am still in discovering phases ..... and I am not in a position to tell people what to do yet until I study more about the case and when I am 100% sure about what/how I got the ... amazed results, I will
andreas
Registered:
Posts: 372
can you please, now that you are taking new pictures stop calling it an airlayer. you are confusing people that dont know what an airlayer is, and others that will be reading this topic in the future. other than that. You have done a great job. i hope you get 2 plants and taste the fruit from it this season. best of luck.
lolita1234
Registered:
Posts: 199
[QUOTE=andreas]
..... you are confusing people ........... you get 2 plants and taste the fruit from it this season. best of luck.[/QUOTE]
both of us are confusing people hehehe because a rooted cutting with trunk more than 1" in diameter is no longer a PLANT but a TREE
Just kidding hehehe
No more kidding in my part ./.
newk
Registered:
Posts: 21
[QUOTE=mnedelcu]Well...i don't know about all this stuff...but,regarding the title:yes,you can root a big/huge cutting,my biggest one was 2.7inches diam.[/QUOTE] I have my best success with end cuttings as large as I can find but I have success with center cuttings up to an inch in diameter, don't think I have ever tried one larger than that. If I try to start a plant from a branch that large, I go to the air layering it on the tree.
bamafig
Registered:
Posts: 119
I came across this video. I dont speak french, but it deals with a large cutting. https://youtu.be/kkKAFI-FfQo
lolita1234
Registered:
Posts: 199
Whatever you said, whatever you called, here is up to date (03/22/2016)
There was a total of 5 huge cuttings, about 8' - 12' high, 2.5" - 3.2" diameter, and 2 smaller size , 5' high and 1" diameter. Cuttings were rooting around Thanksgiving time 2015 Foil tin balls were done a few days later using air layering method . Total of 9 foil tin balls for 7 trunks Winter time . Indoor. Temp 65 F - 70 F . Light : 4 T16 neon/24 hours. Fan 6 hours/day Rooting hormone : Hormodin 2 Medium : Moisture Control Soil . Pot : 5 G
As of today, the below pictures show that a previous huge cutting is no longer ... a cutting, but 2 standing trees linked together in 1 pot . The whole thing was recently moved to outside for fresh air and for more growth .
Below the foil tin part [IMG]http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a133/hongkhackimmai/hongkhackimmai010/d88d8b45-793c-4f68-a46d-72c1af86c93b_zpsysxxllwi.jpg[/IMG]
Story : Thursday : Found tree for sale on Craigslist around Thanksgiving 2015 inside a back yard . Seller stated that the tree was 10 years old. Variety : Celeste . Only access was a 40" x 6' wooden gate
Friday : Seller wanted the whole tree to be gone no later than Sunday afternoon . Started to remove all small limbs . More than 850 cuttings (4 nods each) collected and a truck load of different size limbs..
Saturday : Discover that tree was not 10 years old as seller stated 7 big trunks were standing on a huge stump hidden under layers of dry leaves and grass mulches No way to dig the whole tree out in one piece . Have to cut off all the trunks down in order to get out of the gate
Sunday : Stump was 3'6" wide . Use saw-all to remove all the roots sticking out the stump (2' circumference) , 1' deep then divided it into 4 sections . Sliced each section with a long blade . Broke 4 blades and could not go deeper. Finally got the job done by 4:00 pm .
Saved 1 slice of hard wood for experimental purpose and get rid of all the rest ( a pickup load of broken roots!)
lolita1234
Registered:
Posts: 199
Thanks, barnafig, for the video. I do speak French so I understand it well, however IMO to dig a hole like that is way too much for me . Using a small pot is simpler and easier to move the tree everywhere you wanted .
My plan is to move all of them to more than 2000 miles away with a U-Haul box truck. I know that the road will be not smooth, but bumpy . I will manage to take them with me wherever I go .... in a very near future
torontofig
Registered:
Posts: 60
it is really a good harvest. the thick stems help you save a few years to grow from baby tree. :)
lolita1234
Registered:
Posts: 199
[QUOTE=torontofig]... the thick stems help you save a few years to grow from baby tree. :)[/QUOTE]
Good bonsai projects ! that is what I have in my head now
![[3343416b-8cdd-4a06-890c-346cdc847545_zpsmao0baab]](http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a133/hongkhackimmai/3343416b-8cdd-4a06-890c-346cdc847545_zpsmao0baab.jpg)
![[image]](http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a133/hongkhackimmai/336e5673-43ac-4c40-bff9-7c03834004c8_zpsdggzypig.jpg?302)