I found this fig for sale on eBay UK,seller claims it is Rouge de Bordeaux(Pastilliere to US folks).Ive not managed to find many pics of the leaves on the forum, I am questioning whether the leaves look right based on the listings. Most people here who miss-sell are selling BT as something it's not(or something that isn't BT as BT to make a sale of an unknown) but this doesn't look anything like BT. Does this look right for Rouge de Bordeaux or is it something else?,if so what are people's thoughts it might be,it's Definately not one I have already so I'm tempted to risk it as the price is reasonably low. Thoughts?,suggestions?

I have 2 Rouges and 4 Past. Each are fully grown 8 foot tall trees. I can post pics of mine later this week.

I have it too in ground. Will post pics. Mine drops all of its fruit. Needs wasp

Mine do not drop its figs.

Really. Will mine hold its fruit. First year in ground 2 years old

Thanks for the replies guys,Dennis that's much appreciated,the pics I have found so far have all been young trees so leaf pattern I know can differ but yours should be true.Ill hold off making a decision.Rouge de Bordeaux has been grown here for some time and is supposed to do well here,perhaps dropping fruit is a climatic thing?,we will only get Breba here due to the short season,I know there is some discussion as to whether Rouge/red Bordeaux is the same as Pastilliere and there is and Unk.Pastilliere out there too so perhaps more than one variety/strain?. If the leaves so look right I'll buy it and have to post on progress here to see if it holds its Breba crop. Richie and figpig,do the leaves look right to you?,if not what else do you think it could be?

Among the many leaf shapes/contours for this cultivar,  the  most representative shape I found for Pastiliere (Rouge de Bordeaux) can be seen here and it's very distinct from all other figs

http://www.planetfig.com/images/pastiliere/600/pastiliere_a_feuille.jpg

From Gustav Eisen's old book you may as well see what he shows... and it looks to match

 
Francisco
Portugal

Hi,
Pastiliere and Rouge de Bordeaux are both French made names. They used one in the South-east and the other in the South-west .
If you're waiting on the breba crop ... you'll be deceived ... Pastiliere is mostly unifera, so no brebas but maincrops.
But, Pastiliere is supposed to be THE early fruiting strain.
Pastiliere is supposed to be THE cultivar for potted culture .
I have Pastiliere.
The leaf is not really so distinctive.
Your leaves look too big for Pastiliere, especially since it is in that tiny pot.
Have you personally seen Pastiliere ripen in the UK ? Does the seller have pics of the mother tree? ripe fruit ?

Mine here this year, showed 10 figs, and as of yesterday, 5 already dropped... for the third year.
She grows damn slowly . 3 new leaves per bud per year ... I may uproot her come Fall and check on the roots to see if something bad is going on on mine.
Well, not a good experience for now . I may toss her someday .
I may try and buy another tree to see if the nursery where I bought just supplied a bad tree.

Lampo,thanks for that,the picture illustrated looks completely different from the young plant which has eleongated deep finger lopes with a bit of a bulbous tip,I have attached a pic from the claimed mother tree and the leaves are a lot less long fingered,I know this could be due to past growth/over fertilising,but looking at the leaves in Eisens book I am now more dubious.

JDSFrance,I haven't seen it ripen but it is often recommended.I don't have pics of the ripe fruit but have added another photo.If I do but it (and now I am less certain) if it does grow that slow I would I think just fertilise the sh*t out of in in the first year and then pinch to see if that makes a difference.I had a BT that did that,fertilised,up potted.pinched and it started pushing out new buds and side shoots.

I was thinking if it's not a Rouge is might be Dalmatie or a Brunswick?,the mother tree(if that's what it is looks different from the plant for sale,could be just because it's young or just because it's a different tree all together

Sellers here really aren't as clued on,you should see the wonderful variety of unknowns sold as BT on eBay,it's madness

These are today's leaves of my potted Pastillière
In my climate they do ripe first main crop figs with no abortions,  with or without wasps, about second week of July or even earlier depending on weather.

 

 

Francisco
Portugal

Francisco,thank you for that,the leaves of ours look close to the supposed mother tree but I am still unsure about her 'babies' the leaf fingers of the young plant are very much longer but the basic shape of the lobes is right,could this just be a case of quick growth looking a bit different or would you say these are different figs?

[QUOTE=haslamhulme]Francisco,thank you for that,the leaves of ours look close to the supposed mother tree but I am still unsure about her 'babies' the leaf fingers of the young plant are very much longer but the basic shape of the lobes is right,could this just be a case of quick growth looking a bit different or would you say these are different figs?[/QUOTE]


When you first show that young plant I felt that it was not a Pastillière aka, Roug. d'Bordeaux
In the absence of any fruit, let's try an additional test on its leaves besides what was already checked.
A grown up true Past.leaf is dark green, somewhat thicker than most of other fig leaves and sporting  bluish reflections on the upper side.
This leaf  is quite pleasant to the touch, fluffy/velvety on its underside..

Can you check these aspects ?

Francisco
Portugal

A friend sent me a Pastiliere cutting. His tree is a Pierre Baud tree, so i have complete confidence on the variety.

The cutting was rooted last year, so no figs yet, but here are the leaves (they seem identical to Francisco's tree)

 

 

 

What is for sale in first post on topic,is Ronde De Bordeauux,which for some people is similar to Rouge de Bordeaux.

Pastilliere is not Rouge nor Ronde de Bordeaux, But a fig of Japanese origin,or at least a Japonicum strain of ficus carica.

Post #15 show ,the true Pastilliere, (Typical) and is exactly what i had ,from US Germaplasm as Pastilliere!.
Also ,Lampo, pix show same cultivar in my opinion.

Jsacadura,thanks for showing the leaves,they are similar to the second picture I posted,that much be some sort of 'stock photo' they found of rouge,the first pic I posted and the actual plant for sale looks different. Herman,thank you for that,are you positive it is Ronde?,if it is I am DEFINATELY buying it,it's on my wish list,MUCH higher up than Pastillere :) If you check out eBay.co.uk there are plenty of misslabels,even of things labelled as BT which actually look like Brunswick ,white Marsailles,Dalmatie etc,at least that way I can probably pick up some bargains

Yes,I am sure is Ronde de Bordeaux,i have a couple ,old ones and sold numerous young ones like that tree.

Having just looked at pics of Ronde(Db) especially young plants I think Herman might be bang on the money!,what would us newbies do without her you guys!,thank you Herman,I can buy that one in confidence I'm getting a good fig(and a good deal)

You Welcome!

You know you have a fig problem when your eBay purchases page looks like this

@haslamhulme - At least the prices listed don't seem to be  a skipped heart beat in the making... I have been bidding on a few of the cultivars of desirable / hard to obtain varieties and those numbers reach levels that cause cardiac fibrillations....  :-)

The U.K. Is a totally different market for figs,there are no specialist fig nurseries,there are no collections,no research programmes,and very few people are interested in Figs to the extend you guys in the US are,the most a mature fig tree will go for here is as a specimens tree,fully grown would be about £150.Most 1 year plants sell for £5-10,more mature plants for £15-20,rare desirable imports about £45.I would love to start a fig nursery here,no one is doing it,I do wonder whether I could do it as a full time income,to start with probably not but I'm giving it some serious thought

If I had the money to pack my boring as hell office job in and start a fig nursery I would without a second thought,however a man cannot live on figs alone,I'm from a long line of gardeners and farmers so the desire to go down that route is getting stronger the older and more jaded with office work I get,I'll probably post more on this subject in future,will do a business plan and crunch the numbers

Herman,

>>Pastilliere is not Rouge nor Ronde de Bordeaux, But a fig of Japanese origin,or at least a Japonicum strain of ficus carica.

At least in Europe Rouge de Bordeaux is clearly used as a synonym for Pastiliere (also called Hirta du Japon sometimes).

Even Pierre Baud uses those synonyms in his website:



As for being a fig with a Japanese origin, i have read that could be a Portuguese fig that was taken to Japan when the Portuguese where sailing, "discovering" the world until they reached Japan (probably taking with them some potted fig trees.

http://www.planetfig.com/cultivars/fcveng8586.html

His Portuguese ancestor could be the old fig variety that Francisco showed us in this thread - http://figs4funforum.websitetoolbox.com/post/figo-preto-tempor%C3-%A3o-early-black-6446465?highlight=preto&pid=1278928313

  

How many local names a fig have ,it does not matter,it matter,that the person gets what he is buying.
haslamhulme asked ,if the little plant for sale,is Pastilliere,and my answer is;
No that plant is Ronde de Bordeaux.

My "Rouge de Bordeaux" (?) has both types of leaves, with the more mature leaves looking like the Ronde de Bordeaux type as in the first post. It didn't fruit this year, was a bare root tree from a reputable nursery last year. It's a slow grower, preferring to spread out on multiple branches rather than up.  

Aren't both types of leaves shown in this picture of Rouge de Bordeaux from a German nursery: the Ronde de Bordeaux leaf (Post 1) and the Pastilliere leaf (Post 15)?

http://www.lidl.de/de/frucht-feige-rouge-de-bordeaux-klein-1-pflanze-ficus-carica-feigenbaum/p173443

http://www.lidl.de/media/product/0/1/7/3/4/4/3/frucht-feige-rouge-de-bordeaux-klein-1-pflanze-ficus-carica-feigenbaum-zoom--41.jpg

If there's a mix up, then perhaps it's one in other countries as well as here. 

Altadenamara,thanks for that,LIDL are a supermarket,I would not trust them to sell it true to type as they are dependent on their big bucks volume producing suppliers and just sell what they are given called by whatever name they are told.There seems to be some confusion about Rouge de Bordeaux,it either is or isn't the same as Pastilliere and either does or doesn't have finger leaves.

From what has been posted so far I am confident this is not Pastilliere,if Pastilliere is the same as Rouge de Bordeaux then this isn't that either,if it is,fine,the best alternative candidate is Ronde,which does not seem to change shape with age,the shape just seems to get sharper and more defined.

For the plant I pictured it is the young leaves that look more like Rdb,not the older ones(like in the second pic),I suspect the seller bought them as Rouge de Bordeaux,found a picture of Rouge de Bordeaux through Google no doubt and posted that long with a picture of the plants for sale.

It seems the debate will rumble on,either way,if is Ronde,Rouge or whatever else the proof will be in the pudding as we say here,i will have to wait and see what fruit it produces and what leaf it produces when it matures

either way,I have a fig,fig=good in most cases and this one is nice and cheap so I can afford to risk it

Herman,

You are probably right and the plant for sale may well be Ronde de Bordeaux. 

I was commenting on your statement that Pastiliére and Rouge de Bordeaux are different varieties.

[QUOTE=haslamhulme]The U.K. Is a totally different market for figs,there are no specialist fig nurseries,there are no collections,no research programmes[/QUOTE]

Here are few mail order nurseries that you might find interesting and they all send to the UK.
I have also attached a file that contains full price and list of Monsterrat Pons Varities (I think over 300 varities, prices ranging from 5 euros-25 euros).This might keep you busy for few years . 

http://www.rvroger.co.uk/index.php?linksource=stockgroup&webpage=figs&listgroupfile=fruitandnuttrees&parentpagefile=opengroundfruit&season=MAIN&caller=Header

http://www.senteursduquercy.com/46-fruitiers-figuier-arbousier-grenadier

http://www.vivaigabbianelli.it/cerca?orderby=position&orderway=desc&search_query=Ficus+Carica&submit_search=Search

http://www.manfredhans.de/epages/63701025.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/63701025/Categories/Pflanzen/Feigen

http://www.figuiers.com/plants-de-figuiers.html

http://palmi.bg/search.html?phrase=ficus&x=0&y=0

http://www.fig-baud.com/figuiers.html

http://www.pepinieres-minier.fr/plantes.php?target=rechercheNom&action=search&by=nomScientifique2&letter=F

http://www.blackmoor.co.uk/category/310

http://www.mercato-verde.ch/de/angebot/feigenbaeume

Vinny,thank you for your addition to the topic,that's an awesome resource,thank you,it will indeed keep me busy,I think you also validated my point about there being no specialised fig nurseries in the UK,how Europeans and Americans have caught the fig fever and the Brits on the whole haven't I don't know

Jsacadura: You are right ,Rouge de B and Pastilliere is thought, to be the same cultivar,is just that some gardener confuse Ronde de Bordeaux with Rouge de Bordeaux,and sell Ronde plants as Rouge plants.
I have seen Ronde de Bordeaux,being called synonym to Negronne also,and is not.

[QUOTE=haslamhulme]Vinny,thank you for your addition to the topic,that's an awesome resource,thank you,it will indeed keep me busy,I think you also validated my point about there being no specialised fig nurseries in the UK,how Europeans and Americans have caught the fig fever and the Brits on the whole haven't I don't know[/QUOTE]
I think reads claim to be a specialist , but I'm not sure . I was just quoting that line you posted. It would be nice to see a fig specialist in Britain

Reads is sometime said to have the 'national collection' of fig trees though I can't find anything out about that,what it means or who would 'award' that?

[QUOTE=haslamhulme]Reads is sometime said to have the 'national collection' of fig trees though I can't find anything out about that,what it means or who would 'award' that?[/QUOTE]
The Royal horticultural society, for that you need to display your collection on one if them posh garden shows. Or get in touch with them with your collection . I know Steven reads and he got a huge collection than what he have advertised. I would imagine 250 plus varieties will help to be in the national collection. There is a 300 year old fig tree in Suffolk near reads nursery, if you every go that direction get some cuttings mate, I want to know what it is lol.

I would have thought having the Royal/national collection or anything would be a thing you would want to make a big thing if for marketing purposes?,maybe Stepehn is missing a trick there.

On old trees,I'm afraid they are all closer to you than me,I don't get much all for coming down south.

Tree arrived yesterday,will post pics

Top pic is the tree,then then the older leaves,last one is s brand new leaf looking a bit different

I definty see that this is NOT rouge or Pastilliere,what are folks though on the Ronde de Bordeaux ID?,I know fruit will tell but in going to have to wait on that a bit

That looks like RDB, Rhonde de Bordeaux to me

I hope so,it's looking curiously like my Precoce de Dalmatie too so jury still out till it fruits