Hello all.

Winter will soon be here (later then sooner I hope) in Toronto zone 5B.

I have some first year plants that I purchased from nurseries and such that are up potted to 1 or 2 gallon pots. What would be best, let them go dormant and store in my basement cold room or buy some grow lights and try and keep them growing.

This is the pot I up-potted to about 3 weeks ago when I bought the figs.

Hi Tony
I think figs need their sleep.  I would gently let them go dormant. 
Don't let the young green shoots freeze but let them get enough cold so they can drop their leaves and lignify their stems.  Then keep them cool and dark above freezing until spring. 
This will save you a lot of money given Ontario's hydro rates and the figs will be better for it and grow nice next year.

IMO, it's no contest.  Let them go dormant.  It's simpler, cheaper, easier.  Moreover, the growth under grow lights may not stand up well to actual spring sun.

Just don't ignore the dormant plants.  They'll need some moisture.

[QUOTE=pino]Hi Tony
I think figs need their sleep.  I would gently let them go dormant. 
Don't let the young green shoots freeze but let them get enough cold so they can drop their leaves and lignify their stems.  Then keep them cool and dark above freezing until spring. 
This will save you a lot of money given Ontario's hydro rates and the figs will be better for it and grow nice next year.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Pino. I can save the cost of the hydro and buying the grow lights.

[QUOTE=jrdewhirst]IMO, it's no contest.  Let them go dormant.  It's simpler, cheaper, easier.  Moreover, the growth under grow lights may not stand up well to actual spring sun.

Just don't ignore the dormant plants.  They'll need some moisture.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Joe I will let them sleep and I will check on the moisture once a while.

My first year I kept lights on all winter, gained a whole season in growth, second year put lights on a 7 day/12 hr timer, gained a whole season in growth.  For the last 3 years I put them in my unlighted, unheated barn and they grew accordingly, went dormant, no growth above ground over the winter.  This year I intend to keep my small trees and cuttings in my new greenhouse and keep the lights on a 7 day/12 hr timer.  We will see.

[QUOTE=dkirtexas]My first year I kept lights on all winter, gained a whole season in growth, second year put lights on a 7 day/12 hr timer, gained a whole season in growth.  For the last 3 years I put them in my unlighted, unheated barn and they grew accordingly, went dormant, no growth above ground over the winter.  This year I intend to keep my small trees and cuttings in my new greenhouse and keep the lights on a 7 day/12 hr timer.  We will see.[/QUOTE] Thanks Danny. May I ask the type of lights you were using. Were they the regular type of fluorescent bulbs or a type of high pressure sodium bulb?

I use a combination of standard 40w fluorescent for light and 500w heat lamps for heat when needed.  I have 2 4 ft fluorscents 6 inches above cuttings with leaves, when they get too close to the bulbs I replace them with the next batch.  You still have to acclimate the trees to direct sunlight but the process is somewhat shorter.

Last year was my first year with figs and I asked a similar question.  I had babies that I was worried wouldn't survive dormancy so I built a little indoor greenhouse with a clear plastic bin, heating elements, LED grow lights, etc.  At first it worked great, and I saw similar results as reported by Danny.  Then the plants outgrew the greenhouse and I tried to extend by using plastic wrap.  Unfortunately the plastic wrap was a poor insulator and the heating elements didn't do their job in the colder months or the plants were overcrowded.  They slowly lost their leaves 1 by 1 and it was a project to keep them alive.  I keep the spare rooms at 60 degrees in the winter.  Then there was the fungus gnats!  They were controllable with sticky tape, but there was always a few flying around and it drove my wife nuts.

In Spring, the weather warmed up to 65-70 and I took down the greenhouse and began moving them outside during the day and inside at night.  Well the 2 older plants I let go dormant woke right up and started sprouting leaves.  The greenhouse plants went into shock and lost all of the remaining leaves and stayed that way for a couple weeks for the good ones to almost 2 months for the stubborn ones.  I thought my Smith plant was a goner until it started sprouting leaves in mid-July.  Now its October, all plants have recovered and grew tall, but all of the greenhouse plants have tons of immature figs due to the late start.  I don't know if the baby plants would have survive the dormancy, but this winter I am going to let my baby fig plants go dormant and see what happens.  I think if you have mild winters (Texas) or keep your house warm and are extremely careful about weaning your plants from grow lights to natural light, it will work, but there is a lot that can go wrong.
Good luck,
Andrew

I am newbie as well, I have same results as Andrew as well last winter/this spring, This year, I put bark mulch in my garden, I let them go dormant in our mild winter, also I need this to clear hidden FMV bud mites.

My house is not heated, I have small room about 100 SqFT, Temperature was Aprom. at 45-52F, I use 600W heater to maintain at 60F-65F, it was near on all the time and It costed near $1 per day and our electric rate is much cheaper at $0.13 KWH than you.

If your house has Sun-room of bright window sill, it might be a good spot to extended them growing longer.

Your fig trees are fine to go dormant, I pruned my bady trees with some toothpick green cuttings and surprise me  that they all rooted,  they are too small to go dormant.

 
 

I thought I would let most go dormant but try a few under these grow lights I bought today http://www.leevalley.com/en/Wood/page.aspx?cat=2,44716&p=67298.

What about growing them under the lights until Jan 2017 and then letting them go dormant for a few months till they awake.

I came here today hoping to find this exact topic and answers to this very quandary.  I guess that the answer is "take your pick".

I think you may have a hard time getting the growth under lights to toughen up (i.e., turn woody, or "lignify") in Canada in January.  For plants in pots left outdoors or for plants in ground, as autumn passes and plants are exposed to gradually declining temps, the tissues toughen up.  The toughened plants can then tolerate storage in the cold (and dark), and they can also tolerate late spring conditions as they emerge from dormancy.  I fear that your plants under lights will be too soft to survive, 

[QUOTE=jrdewhirst]I think you may have a hard time getting the growth under lights to toughen up (i.e., turn woody, or "lignify") in Canada in January.  For plants in pots left outdoors or for plants in ground, as autumn passes and plants are exposed to gradually declining temps, the tissues toughen up.  The toughened plants can then tolerate storage in the cold (and dark), and they can also tolerate late spring conditions as they emerge from dormancy.  I fear that your plants under lights will be too soft to survive, [/QUOTE]

Very good points Joe, thank you.

I started figs under lights last winter, and they got quite big, and the leaves were dark green. I have to acclimate my pepper and tomato seedlings every year, and the figs were not any harder to do than those plants to get used to outside conditions. It takes 2-3 weeks before they are acclimated.
I have a fig now that looks like it fruits in December, so it's going under lights in my zone 6a/5b. I have very powerful lights. You could grow hemp under them no problem, the figs love it. A problem is overcrowding, but with just one or two plants, not really a problem. I always grow herbs under lights all winter. I like to cook and need fresh herbs year round.
As far as fungus gnats, all you need to do is water with 1/2 cup hydrogen peroxide per gallon of water, and it will kill all eggs, works great!

[QUOTE=drew51]I started figs under lights last winter, and they got quite big, and the leaves were dark green. I have to acclimate my pepper and tomato seedlings every year, and the figs were not any harder to do than those plants to get used to outside conditions. It takes 2-3 weeks before they are acclimated.
I have a fig now that looks like it fruits in December, so it's going under lights in my zone 6a/5b. I have very powerful lights. You could grow hemp under them no problem, the figs love it. A problem is overcrowding, but with just one or two plants, not really a problem. I always grow herbs under lights all winter. I like to cook and need fresh herbs year round.
As far as fungus gnats, all you need to do is water with 1/2 cup hydrogen peroxide per gallon of water, and it will kill all eggs, works great![/QUOTE]

Great tip for the fungus gnats.

Is that the same hydrogen peroxide you would use when you cut your finger.

In general I let the larger figs plants go dormant. But I keep the smaller new starts under the LED lamped growing shelves I built. As to moving them outside you cannot simply stick them in the Sun. The Sun puts out a much broader light spectrum than LED white lamps. This includes both UV and infrared light. This is what will cook an indoor plant if moved directly to full sun. Mine go to full shade for a week then to about 1/3 sun......slowly moving until after about 3 weeks they are in full Sun. All of my rootings are under indoor lamps. Yes you will battle the gnats but it just takes a little effort to get 4-5 months of growth on the new plants. 

Very efficient LED growing shelves can be made fairly inexpensively using big box materials. And stay away from the red/blue LED lamps!   

[QUOTE=JMRTSUS]
Very efficient LED growing shelves can be made fairly inexpensively using big box materials. [/QUOTE]

Would you mind linking the lights that you are using? My head is about to explode with all the choices...




[QUOTE=JMRTSUS]... And stay away from the red/blue LED lamps!   [/QUOTE]

Would love to hear thoughts on why...

Thanks,

I can say this for the subject. Last year I was living in a place too rough in summer even for the figs, so I grew them entirely under lights. Most were too weak to even go outside really, all green wood. They slowly lost their leaves all winter long, even with lights and had no root development whatsoever during winter months. They tried to flush for spring too early, and when i put them outside In early summer they all went totally totally dormant, lost all spring growth, new shoots tips died back and I lost 6 trees simply because they expended all or nearly all of their energies between limping along all winter and the first flush and couldn't come back to flush again. It took a full month to come around, and only the strongest did so readily. I was advised by others here to pinch buds at September 15, leave outside until first frost or at least November if possible and cut off leaves leaving stem to fall naturally on December 15. I am letting all my trees that are somewhat or fully established go dormant and only my fully greenwood new rooted cuttings will be allowed to stay awake simply because there is no other choice. Grow lights aren't enough. Take it from me who tried as I am sure others did and sustained losses. Let them go dormant, they need the rest. Use lights in spring and slowly harden to outside conditions if necessary. But by all means let them sleep.

JMRTSUS, whats wrong with the red-blue LED lights? Was just preparing to order some. Thanks

In a nutshell the biggest problem is reliability followed by cost and in my plant shelves compared to cool white LED lamps showed no growth difference in tests I did. I purchased 24 of the A19 base (normal home light socket) red/blue LED lamps for the test. I am not condemning all red/blue LED type lamps I am sure there are high quality products available. My goal was to find the easiest and less expensive option. Of the initial 24 lamps I have 10 still working with about 4 months use, at varying levels of intensity. These were ordered online from China and took 4-6 weeks to get here. I ordered from 2 different suppliers as I was under the impression it was different lamps, no, they were the same. They are also way over rated as to light levels and even power consumption. That is the reason they die quickly. These lamps use LEDs that are rated from the manufacture at half what the lamp maker drives them at, hence they burn out quickly. Of the 48 home type lamps all purchased from Lowes only one has failed and the cost was less than 1/2 of the red/blue.

Here is the secret of LED lamps. There is no such thing as a "white" LED. A "white" LED is a combination of red/blue/green LED's in a single package. So when you buy a "white" home LED lamp it is supplying the same wave lengths of blue and red light as the specialized ones. The market for the red/blue large lamps is the indoor marijuana market. It may be the case that this combination works well in that application but in fig cuttings and Alpine strawberries in very controlled experiments showed ZERO difference in leaf or root growth. 

These are what I used....the white 40w equivalent LED lamp provides 800 lumens and I paid as low as $1.00 a bulb on sale! I use about 2 per sq ft. 10 of these for about $15 plus the sockets at $1.50 each plus wire and a $5.00 timer will give you 8000 lumens of light for a 1 x 5 foot shelf. The great thing about LED lamps is their efficiency. The 40w equivalent lamp uses only 8.5 watts of power.  So ten will cost less that a 100w old type bulb to run and they produce only about 1/4 the heat level. 

Sorry server will not accept pics right now. Look at this to see my shelves and lamps

 Please help- growing figs indoors! Specifically- LIGHT BULBS :/

I would like to get a sodium halide light set up next year for rooting and my citrus. They come 400, 600 or 1000 watt. 400 us about equal to a t5 setup and a 1000 costs 50$ a month to run so I'll likely go 600. It's about $300 for the ballast, maybe 500 all said but I'm just not seeing the light out put I want. Plus changing 8 bulbs is a pain every 6-8 months rather than one every year or two. They come with a fan setup for summer months due to heat output, but if growing in a winter basement? Heat isn't so bad lol

The question comes down to lumens per watt and initial costs. The 40w equivalent lamps produce 94 lumens per watt. Cost of $2.00 would be 24 cents per watt. 1000W of LED lamps would require 118 lamps and produce 94,400 lumens! Cost of lamps would be $236 plus $175 in lampholders. 

I use 30 for about 14 x 1 foot of shelves. 255w times 10 hours a day times 30 days is 76.5Kw per month. Rate here is .07817 per kw hour so cost to run 24K lumens for a month is $6.00 and initial investment was under $500. If you are doing citrus I would guess you would need lots more light. All I do is root figs and grow some Alpine strawberries. I do mine in the house so the small amount of heat is not a problem. Plus an inexpensive timer ($10) will handle the load. So for my used the goal was met.....shelves and fixtures will last for years. Lamp life has been only 1 failure in the 30 lamps plus the other 10 or so in light fixtures around the house.

BTW, I have Cara Cara and Valencia oranges in 3 gal. pots that have oranges I pollinated last winters indoors starting to ripen now! Too much trouble to do it again and too large now for me to deal with. Good luck with your indoor adventure!

[QUOTE=tinyfish] Great tip for the fungus gnats. Is that the same hydrogen peroxide you would use when you cut your finger.[/QUOTE]
Yes.

[QUOTE=JMRTSUS]The question comes down to lumens per watt and initial costs. The 40w equivalent lamps produce 94 lumens per watt. Cost of $2.00 would be 24 cents per watt. 1000W of LED lamps would require 118 lamps and produce 94,400 lumens! Cost of lamps would be $236 plus $175 in lampholders. 

I use 30 for about 14 x 1 foot of shelves. 255w times 10 hours a day times 30 days is 76.5Kw per month. Rate here is .07817 per kw hour so cost to run 24K lumens for a month is $6.00 and initial investment was under $500. If you are doing citrus I would guess you would need lots more light. All I do is root figs and grow some Alpine strawberries. I do mine in the house so the small amount of heat is not a problem. Plus an inexpensive timer ($10) will handle the load. So for my used the goal was met.....shelves and fixtures will last for years. Lamp life has been only 1 failure in the 30 lamps plus the other 10 or so in light fixtures around the house.

BTW, I have Cara Cara and Valencia oranges in 3 gal. pots that have oranges I pollinated last winters indoors starting to ripen now! Too much trouble to do it again and too large now for me to deal with. Good luck with your indoor adventure![/QUOTE]

My biggest issue is I have to hang my lights and cannot mount them permanently. So I need something that throws a wide range of strong light. I find T5 is adequate for very young citrus and for young figs only do long as they are within 3 feet of the light, and inadequate for more mature trees. Given I suspect I will be beginning my fig season indoors I would like a light that can properly sustain my adults as well. No greenhouse in sight for a while for me. Even still my adults will be going to sleep this year.

Different types of T5 light. i assume when people say T5 they mean T5HO, you can also buy T5VHO, which is a stronger light, and you need a T5VHO fixture.
Halagen lights and other lights used for marijuana will do well. A 4 foot T5 gives off 5,000 lumens, T5VHO gives off 7,200 lumens. One problem is it runs hot. But you don't need to be as close. I have 4 lamp fixtures of both. 8 lamp fixtures are around too.

This winter I will be bored (lack of expected vecation time) so started 4 new varieties.

Its alot of work keeping those gnats at bay..

White light is not just white light.....
There is what is called cool white and warm white.
Both put out different colors from the color spectrum.
One is bluish tint one is more orange tint.
I build my own LED grow lights from parts easily found on ebay.
They have them so simple now that you can buy the LED chip
and the driver to go with it.
No special training needed.
Just common sense and follow directions.
This year I'm running 2- 100 watt LED chips that
produce 24,000 lumen each.
This winter I plan on building another LED grow light assembly.
Using and assembling from only cheap parts on ebay.
I may put up a thread on how to do it yourself and safely.
I'll see how much time I have...

Doug

http://www.bestlightingbuy.com/color-difference.html

As a few more experienced people pointed out, it is absolutely possible to keep your figs growing over the winter.  All you need is a warm room and grow lights.  But the question is should you grow over the winter?  For me, 4 hours of spring sun in a single day un-did all the benefits of the entire winter.  Once the leaves got sunburnt, there was nothing to be done but watch them slowly dry, brown and one by one fall.  Then there was a month where I thought the plans were dead before they began sprouting new buds.  Three months later at the end of summer, all the plants survived and look great, however, I missed out on a year of figs all because of that 1/2 day of sun.  If you have fruiting trees and these are an experiment, go for it.  But if these are all you have and you are new to fig growing, you might want to take the safer route.
To make matters worse, I will have to pick a hundred plus un-ripened figs off the trees in a few weeks while still not tasting a single one.  Actually I got 2 from another tree.
Good luck and let us know what you choose and how you make out.

The thing to consider is if you can provide enough light and care for the plant to thrive for all the months of the winter.  As was mentioned, cuttings will out grow the fluorescent light systems in 1 - 2 months.  I imagine it would be the same for an LED as well.  Here's a list of some good HID systems that are inexpensive.  Only a 1000 W HID or other system with over 100,000 Lm provides enough light for the height your plants are going to get after a few months. 

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=apollo+hid

Moving them outside is not hard at all if you allow them to adjust to the sun gradually.

The fact is that you can start cuttings, transplant and grow a bush
before march in my zone where I then plant straight in the ground.
I've been doing this over 5 years and I have 73 fig trees in my orchard as proof.
Figs grow in areas where they do not go dormant, but they thrive.
When I grow indoors it adds months to it''s first year growing season.
Many many cuttings try to grow figs their first summer.
Winter growing has great benefit, if you use the right lights with
the right color spectrum.
Stay away from HPS lights as these put out a color used for flowering plants
not growing. Although some have used them, they just produce leggy plants.
They have the real orange fall type lighting color.

Soon I will show how to spend $30 and assemble a 100 watt LED light.
Nothing extra needed to produce 100 watts of LED power.
Just assemble parts already made.

Doug

edit
If there is no interest in making a LED grow light, I won't bother.
I have been growing indoors for 15-18 years total. It will not help me any.

Aporto gave some really good advice. Also one should mention, at least to many of us, figs in the house smell like cat urine. I have some young figs, I'm going to let them go dormant all the same. Only one I'm bringing in for awhile to fruit, then slowly expose it back outside, or at least into dormancy. Acclimation can be done without damaging plants, leave them outside in the shade a week. First full sun for 15 minutes, 30 the next day, 45 the next etc. Your plants will not lose any leaves. I have to do this with all figs every year as mine overwinter in the dark. It can be done just no instant karma, you need to do it slowly.

I use cheep Walmart shop lights they work well. And gnatrol for fungus gnats, you can find it on eBay cheep. I would use lights but slowly transition to the sun in spring like hardening them off.

SCfigFanatic:
"edit
If there is no interest in making a LED grow light, I won't bother.
I have been growing indoors for 15-18 years total. It will not help me any."

Yes, interested!

I could use some supplemental light to my grow lights, so yeah I would like to see how you do it.

[QUOTE=SCfigFanatic]If there is no interest in making a LED grow light, I won't bother.
I have been growing indoors for 15-18 years total. It will not help me any.[/QUOTE]

Count me in, I would love to learn...

Ok, have contacted seller of parts with specifications request.
Will start a thread after his response.

Doug

[QUOTE=drew51]Aporto gave some really good advice. Also one should mention, at least to many of us, figs in the house smell like cat urine. I have some young figs, I'm going to let them go dormant all the same. Only one I'm bringing in for awhile to fruit, then slowly expose it back outside, or at least into dormancy. Acclimation can be done without damaging plants, leave them outside in the shade a week. First full sun for 15 minutes, 30 the next day, 45 the next etc. Your plants will not lose any leaves. I have to do this with all figs every year as mine overwinter in the dark. It can be done just no instant karma, you need to do it slowly.[/QUOTE]

My wife complains about the smell. But what I don't get is why some figs smell stronger than others? Mine rarely smell bad, but I've bought a few that Snell worse than the cat litter...

A ionizer running in the room eliminates any odors.
I have one and had good results.
They can be found online fairly cheap.

Doug