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Subject: Think I have to pot up now! Or not? Replies: 24
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 204
 
The perils of success.  I started cuttings last year, late Dec-Jan.  When leaves sprouted, I put them under lights. My main lesson was that the more you supply bigger pots and water, the bigger the plants will grow.  By April, I had plants >2' high filling out 3g pots.  Prepare for a lack of space.  Then be ready to acclimate the plants to outside conditions whenever you move them out.  I'd suggest a week in deep shape then a week in mottled shade before full sun.

I'd definitely up-pot the cuttings.  Then if you want, you can somewhat retard growth by not up-potting again when they get root-bound and/or buy somewhat restricting watering.

p.s.  Did I learn my lesson?  No.  I've got more cuttings now.

Subject: Need experienced help in planning planting area. Replies: 13
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 177
 
There's good advice and appropriate caution above, especially about risks of crowding.  

FWIW, here's what I would do:  Twelve plants -- 3 rows, 4 plants per row.  Each plant is pruned to a low cordon.  After pruning, each plant occupies a space 1-2' high, 2-3' wide, and ~6' long (with 1-2 ~3' laterals on each side of the trunk).  In late season, vegetative growth (controlled by some pinching) will make the heights 4-6' and the widths 3-4'.  That'd leave roughly 2' between each row after fall pruning, but maybe ~1' during late summer. 

Three rows x 5' wide = 15'; four plants x 6' long = 24'.

p.s.  The pruning implies main crops only.

Subject: Varieties with 100g+ fruit Replies: 60
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 1,503
 
Thanks for the bump.  A good read.

I tried to post pics of Fico Nero Duemane (translation "two hands") but got an error message due too size.  I had already reduced the pics to <200Kb each, so I don't know what to do.  Suggestions welcome.

Subject: Black Marseilles Replies: 13
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 310
 
I've got it outside (with protection) here in Z6B RI.  It has survived two winters with air temps below 0F (roughly -5F), without material damage.  It is vigorous, productive and tasty.  Last season I got ~150 figs, beginning end of August.  IMO, its tastier than HC -- more intensity.  So overall, it seems like one of the better Mt Etnas.

Subject: Remember figs4fun?Time to turn this bus around! Replies: 55
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 463
 
9

Subject: In ground containers Replies: 21
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 457
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vijgenboom
Hello everyone, I have figs in containers that are not IN ground but ON the ground. I made large holes in the bottom of the containers and the roots easily grow into the soil under the pots. The big advantage here is that in the fall you don't have to labour that hard, you just cut the roots by horizontally putting the spade under it. It works!


Vijgenboom -- Thanks for the input.  I tried "on the ground" this past summer but gave up by late July.  It's not terribly hot here (Z6B, northeast US) in summer; nevertheless black pots can easily get hot enough to damage roots and stunt growth.  That risk must be greater in the south and west.  So "on there ground" doesn't seem a great option here unless the pots are covered or maybe painted.  As noted by others, burying can help keep roots cool.

Subject: Container Size for First Year Figs Replies: 10
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 205
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaiFig
In bigger pots I've gotten 6 foot tall plants in 4 months.


Agreed.  Based on my experience last year, with good light, the roots of a new cutting started in late Dec /early Jan will fill a 3g pot by late April and a 10g pot by August.  A buried 10g pot will have roots out the sides by fall.  

You can grow figs in smaller pots but then pot size will constrain growth.

Subject: Brown Turkey Problems Replies: 19
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 332
 
Yeah, those look better, especially the last one.  So water helps, but I take your point that clay soil may retard the growth of the roots (and hence growth overall).  

Well, keep the faith.  As I said, my brother-in-law is having good success in heavy north Georgia clay.  After a complete die-back in winter, his "Brown Turkeys" grow back like monsters and produce a ton of fruit.  As a matter of fact, after a complete die-back, by August his plants look roughly the same as your last pic.  That's without much, if any, added water.  

Subject: In ground containers Replies: 21
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 457
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukie29
Small world man, Happy New Year by the way!! I went to school in Fairfield. I see you now reside in Rhode Island, I spend as much of my free time in the summer as I possibly can all alone the shore. I really like it out there. What varieties do you grow?


FP?

Here's what's in-ground and the years planted:  Florea (2013), Paradiso (2013), Hardy Chicago (2014), Marseilles Black vs (2015), Ronde de Bordeaux (2015), Lattarula (2015), Sal's EL (2016), and Brooklyn White (2016).  I've also got a lot of plants in pots.  Older plants in big pots are Zumwalt, Weeping Black, Smith, Nordland, O'Rourke, Takoma Violet.  One-year old cuttings are Malta Black, Black Bethlehem, Black Greek, Salem Dark, ME Unknown, Norella, Natalina, Fico Nero Duemane, Emerald Strawberry, Sumacki, Nero 600M, Valle Negra, Hanc's BT, Laradek's EBT, St Rita, Danny's Delight, JH Adriatic, LSU Gold, LSU Champagne, LSU Purple, Filacciano Bianco. I'm starting cuttings now of LSU Improved Celeste and Red Lebanese Bekaa.  I retired a few years ago, so there's time for the obsession.

Subject: Brown Turkey Problems Replies: 19
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 332
 

<< This is tough for many of us to hear >>

Maybe the message needs a caveat -- so that potential growers everywhere don't get discouraged.  Something is holding that plant back.  If a grower can eliminate that issue (or issues), maybe they can do better.  This plant is "non maintained not irrigated."  What is a reasonable expectation for a plant that gets some attention, especially adequate water?   

I don't claim to be anything special when it comes to gardening skill, so don't take this the wrong way:  By mid summer 2016, my 1st-year cuttings were generally bigger than that plant in the picture.  Last April I gave a friend, who is a good gardener and a fig lover, a 4-month-old rooted cutting of Malta Black.  At the time it was probably 2' high.  By September, under her care, it was 8' tall and 3' wide with a main trunk ~2 1/2" wide and lots of branches.  She had to rip immature figs off it to stop it from bearing.  I think many other growers on this forum experience similar.  That just seems to be what a good fig is capable of.  

I'll assume that your tree is sunny most of the day, not shaded as in the picture.  I'll also assume that you have managed to control the defoliation by animals.  Then my best guess is that the plant needs more water, especially in spring and early summer when growth is most robust.  With adequate (but not abundant) water, I think the fig would grow long roots trying to find reliable moisture.  Without adequate water, the fig may simply not be able to grow that much.  So "getting established" may be all about developing good roots.  And the conundrum is that developing good roots quickly requires water.  

I have no doubt that 7 years is a reasonable benchmark for a tree grown in dry soil without irrigation.   But with water, I think the benchmark should be ~3 years (from cutting to decent production).  And once a deep root system is developed, irrigation may no longer be needed.

I'd love for more experienced members to weigh in. . . . 

Subject: In ground containers Replies: 21
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 457
 
Lukie --

I was born in Bridgeport and grew up in Fairfield.  My parents and wife were from Bridgeport too.

The best advice I ever saw about pots in the ground is to be sure that the holes are on the side, not the bottom.  It's hard to cut roots coming out the side but almost impossible to cut roots coming out the bottom.

I think it's good to get the plants seriously dormant before taking them inside.  I like to give them many nights with temps down to <35F and at least a few down to 25-30F.  The leaves will have fallen off or will be easy to remove.  This year, for example, I brought mine inside in early December just before temps went into the teens.  Then if you keep them cool (<50) all winter, they'll still be dormant in mid/late April, when you can bring them out without fear of frost damage.  

Subject: Brown Turkey Problems Replies: 19
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 332
 
Yeah, it could be heat.  But in a special sense.  It seems obvious that in-ground figs in the Middle East, Italy, Spain etc. tolerate plenty of heat.  But the roots underground stay relatively cool.  In contrast, the roots of potted figs can get really hot.  I'm sure that some of my figs in black pots got way too hot, which damaged the roots.  

I've thought about remedies.  Bigger pots probably don't heat up as quickly, which is one reason I'm moving up to bigger pots.  Meanwhile, I buried all the 10g SIPs 4-6" into the ground, just to try to keep the roots cool.  But I don't think it was enough.  There were signs of stress in late summer.  Next year I may spraypaint the pots a light color and/or cover them with a skirt.

Subject: Brown Turkey Problems Replies: 19
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 332
 
p.s.  The same brother-in-law has two older "Brown Turkey" bought from a box store in ground in northern GA.  Based on fruit color, these seem to be two different varieties.  Despite often dying back to ground level, both of these plants produce hundreds of figs.  Roots are thick and long. 

Subject: Brown Turkey Problems Replies: 19
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 332
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sas
Hi Joe, I know what you mean by life is too short. Here's my experience after I moved my trees to inground. I currently have six in ground fig trees. Col de Dame Blanc,Noir, Gris, Violette de Sollies, another yellow French variety and a Black Madeira. Due to the type of the soil they're all extremely slow growers. In its fourth year the only one that looks like it's really ready to take off is the Col de Dame Gris, but fruit production remains very low. The only one that produced a couple of dozen fruit each year without missing a beat has been the Col de Dame Blanc UCD, but growth has been at minimum since it was moved. The variety that you have does matter. Perhaps you could tell us which fig trees produce that many figs after one year in ground. I would love to grow them. For me out of 85 varieties in containers, the only one that could put out so many figs after four years in containers has been the Celeste.


Growing conditions matter, of course.  I don't have high heat here in Z6 RI, but the soil is good and moisture is ample.  The microclimate is good too.  But I don't fertilize much at all, except for some lime and maybe one shot of 10-10-10 in May.

You've got some premier names.  Maybe you trade off quantity for quality?  Anyway, based on recommendations from a friend, I've focused on workhorse, cold hardy varieties.  I've had Florea, MBvs, RdB, Lattarula, HC, and Paradiso in-ground for 2-4 summers.  They were purchased as adult plants, maybe 2-4 years old, in 5g pots more or less.  Each main trunk was roughly 1-2" thick.  They were small 3-5' trees when I bought them but now they're all pruned low, basically 2' wide x 2' high x 10-16' long for winter (but 4' x 6' x 10-16' in late summer).

Except for Lattarula, these plants produced 15-50 figs in first year as small trees.  That's consistent with what the seller gets from her potted trees.  Florea and Paradiso were planted in 2013.  Florea produced >100 figs last year (year 3), >200 this year (year 4), despite removing 2 modest air layers.  Paradiso has been similar.  HC was planted in 2014; it was less productive (cold damage and air layers) but still put out >100 in both of the past 2 years.  MBvs and RdB were planted in 2015; this year they put out roughly 150 and 100 respectively.  RdB would have done better but I took off two huge air layers this year. Lattarula, also planted in 2015, has ripened only a few figs.  I mainly blame myself for breaking the main truck during winter prep last year.

Separately I've got pots (all SIPs).  Smith, Takoma Violet, O'Rourke, Weeping Black, and Nordland all produced 20-50 figs (including what squirrels stole).  A potted Lattarula, air layered off the unground plant before I broke it, also produced ~20.  FWIW, I assume that a bigger pot will give me more fruit, so I have these plants in 10g SIPs or bigger.  I got a lot of 10's and 15s (as well as a few 25s) from a local landscaper, so 15g is now my go-to size.  

I can't imagine that your potting mix is much different from mine, and I'm assuming you've got plenty of sun.  So I'd guess that the limiting factors (other than variety or maybe FMVB) might be pot size and maybe water.  Re water, I gave my brother-in-law in GA a bunch of potted cuttings this spring.  He planted some in-ground then endured a drought.  Mine in SIPs doubled in size to 4-5' tall, while his stagnated.

Subject: Black Beauty 10 (BB-10) Replies: 49
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 1,205
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kkk2210
Hello guys, I was doing my usual scan on eBay looking for some good deals. I found the variety mentioned above for auction by 'willscfigs'. I didn't see any pictures of the fruit, cut fruit etc on the auction. The seller describes as follows " Black Beauty 10 is a VERY rare variety that has been sought after for many years but was being held tightly by just one grower.  It has finally found its way out and will be in high demand.   It is a very "unique and incredible" tasting fig and a very healthy cultivar.  That is a milk crate the leaf is sitting on in the picture, just huge leaves. This variety is destined to be "one of the very best".   My questions are 1, what did the seller mean by ' it was tightly held' , if so by who exactly? 2, And he also says 'it found its way out'. How? 3, Finally is this the same 'Will C' the founder of our figs ?, if so I will blindly believe his words. But the above two questions remain as I'm one of the bidder and want to know if it's the same BB-10 discovered by dan. Cheers


"Tightly held" is a finance term, used to refer to a company whose shares are mostly owned by a small group (e.g., family) and not generally offered for sale.  It seems odd and suspicious that the seller would use the term.  It suggests that he / she has a toe in the financial industry, maybe on the shady periphery (e.g., touting penny stocks).  Anyway, the whole pitch is very hyped and therefore suspicious.  "Very rare" my a**.

Subject: Brown Turkey Problems Replies: 19
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 332
 
A few more seasons?  Life is too short!!!

I'd expect a 2-year old potted plant, put into the ground, to spend 1 year establishing itself then deliver 50 / 100 / 150-200 figs in the 2nd-4th seasons.  That's been my experience.  Expecting anything less is short-changing yourself.

I'd certainly try to salvage the established trees by pruning for brebas, grafting earlier varieties, etc.  But meanwhile, find yourself some plants that can give you buckets of figs now.  Plant a bunch of those somewhere else on the 8 acres.

Subject: Brown Turkey Problems Replies: 19
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 332
 
I'd skip the fertilizer, which can encourage vegetative growth at the expense of fruit.  And pinch any branch that grows 3-4' to force energy into fruit.

If these are some version of English Brown Turkey, the result may not be a huge surprise -- the main crop is supposed to be late.  There's a widely circulated picture of Laradek's EBT in Europe in snow with lots of unripe main crop figs.  You may have seen similar.  But the breba crop is supposed to be good.  I acquired a cutting of Laradek last winter entirely based on the hope that it might generate decent brebas.  Is there any sign of brebas on your trees?  It would be very disappointing if the brebas are dropping and the main crop figs never ripen.  

I like the suggestion (above) re grafts.  For other trees, you might try pruning specifically to encourage brebas -- pruning out some old, thick growth every year but leaving a decent amount of 1-yr-old wood.  You definitely want to talk care not to prune out most of the 1-yr wood, which will curtail the breba crop.

Subject: OT Anyone growing hardy pomegranates? Replies: 45
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 648
 
Alan -- On behalf of all of us, thanks.

Subject: How's everyones cuttings coming along? Replies: 84
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 1,024
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon87
Last year I was using the paper towel method. This year I went to spagnum moss and coco choir in plastic tubs. Also using a very light potting mix when I pot them. There was a little learning curve as far as the lighting was concerned. I'm using a 105w cfl and it was only 2 feet away. Burned some of the young leaves. Now they are all looking great since I moved it to 4 feet away.. This warm weather is helping also as I can stick them outside in a spot where they get 2-3 hrs of sun a day.


FWIW, I start in damp sphagnum moss.  I keep the cuttings in moss in plastic bags in a dark, warm closet for 2-4 weeks; then I plant them into big plastic (e.g., iced coffee) cups filled with a standard planting mix.  Last year I had ~90% success with ~60 cuttings.  This year I only started a few weeks ago and will attempt only ~20-25.  But so far so good -- The first four were LSU Improved Celeste.  As of today, 3 of 4 are showing roots inside the cups.  Two of these art pushing tiny leaves. 

Subject: OT Anyone growing hardy pomegranates? Replies: 45
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 648
 
I don't want to be a downer either, but "a man's got to know his limitations."  If anyone who isn't selling (and therefore marketing) pomegranates could document a history of growing them in Z6 (or worse), I'd probably jump on the bandwagon just as I have with figs.  Even a requirement for a modest amount of protection would be OK. 

But I wouldn't want to invest 5 years without fruit then see the plant destroyed by a random -10 F weekend.  Meanwhile, I'll focus effort on the species that will reliably produce tons of fruit with modest effort -- e.g., raspberries, peaches, and of course figs.

Subject: OT Anyone growing hardy pomegranates? Replies: 45
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 648
 
Dig -- Thank you.  Every time I think about growing pomegranates here, I try to remind myself that I'm fighting reality.  Some fruits I should just buy at the store.

Subject: OT - Question for honey lovers/honey farmers. Replies: 14
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 209
 
I'm with crademan.  Honey is roughly 40% fructose and 30% glucose.  Chemically, it's not very different from cane sugar or high fructose corn syrup.  

I'll grant you that there may be tiny amounts of beneficial micronutrients in honey, but mainlining fructose and glucose is not healthy.  No doubt it gives an energy boost -- the glucose will raise your blood sugar almost immediately.  Then unless you are diabetic, your body will respond by secreting insulin, which will turn the glucose into body fat.  An hour or so after eating the honey (or sucrose or HFCS), as the glucose is depleted, you may find yourself faint, lethargic, perhaps even hungry.

The fructose is metabolized more slowly by your liver.  Your body is designed to metabolize relatively small amounts of fructose, from wild fruit.  It struggles with big doses.  So for many people, much of the fructose passes through the stomach into the intestines, where it is digested by bacteria, causing gas, bloating and pain.  It seems possible to me that the 1 week delay in the appearance of symptoms was an interval during which fructose-eating bacteria in your gut proliferated in response to your new fructose-rich diet.

Setting aside this preaching about nutrition, you can test whether your body is reacting to the sugars or something else (e.g., herbicides):  Eat a spoonful of high fructose corn syrup.  See if you have a similar reaction.

Subject: I Probably Just Killed My First Cuttings Replies: 5
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 127
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeanderFig
Wow! Thanks for the quick replies! There are large holes in the bottom of the pots, so lots of drainage. Even if the bottom of the bag is open, I should cut the corners out of the bags?


It may not matter if the bag is open.  I usually hold the bag in place with a rubber band, then put a vent hole in an upper corner.  It may be a bit OCD but it just seems likely to produce a more consistent result. 

Subject: I Probably Just Killed My First Cuttings Replies: 5
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 127
 
Make sure there is a drainage hole (or holes).  The excess water will flow through the medium and out the hole(s).  The cuttings will be fine.

Cut a corner off the plastic bag for ventilation.  That'll prevent excess humidity.

When you think the roots are well enough developed, take the bag off for a few hours.  If you get wilting, put it back and try again in a couple days.  If you don't, then leave it off.  Note that a plant with good roots and no bag will require more watering.  But with a well draining medium, you can rely on the drainage holes to prevent overwatering. 

Subject: Wilting of rooted cutting Replies: 34
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 501
 
Johnny -- Some people put them on top of a warm appliance, like a fridge.  I've got mine (in damp sphagnum moss in baggies) in a warm, dark closet.  The closet has got some electrical gear that generates just enough heat.

Subject: Wilting of rooted cutting Replies: 34
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 501
 
in my limited experience, thinner cuttings are less reliable.  The apparent reason is a lack of resources.  A cutting that puts all its energy into making leaves may not have enough left over for good roots.  Once the internal resources are exhausted, the meager roots are incapable of meeting demand from the robust leaves.  

So we should probably do what we can to suppress leaf growth and encourage root growth until the roots are well established.  For this reason, I believe (but can't prove) that it's best to start cuttings in the dark and, if possible, to use bottom heat to keep the roots (rooting medium) warmer than the leaves (air).  Similarly, the top of the cutting should be kept humid until the roots are sufficiently developed to provide adequate water.

Subject: Wilting of rooted cutting Replies: 34
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 501
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsfrance
Hi,
Looks like the cutting was pushed and now is depleted and crumbles


FWIW, I think that this is the right diagnosis.  The leaves seem to have outgrown the roots.

Subject: First Smith 2016 Replies: 30
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 657
 
My Smith has leaves and fruit like Don's.

Subject: Pinch, cut, or stay the course? Replies: 24
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 323
 
Joe --

I totally agree that cuttings grown under artificial light need gradual acclimation to outdoor sunlight.  Last spring, I did ~1 week in full shade followed by ~1 week in partial shade, which worked well.  But I'm not sure that sunlight coming through a window is comparable to sunlight outdoors.

Anyway, I wouldn't want the above discussion to distract from my core point:  I fear that without intense light for long hours, the growth of the cuttings may be weak and spindly.  I'd love to have others with more experience weigh in.  

Subject: Pinch, cut, or stay the course? Replies: 24
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 323
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorontoJoe
I have a bunch of cuttings starting to leaf out in a north facing window at the moment. The ground is covered in snow and the sun is shining quite brightly. I just moved one of them to a south facing window to see how it goes. I'm worried the sun may be too strong there at this stage. If this one does well more are headed to that window tomorrow.


I grow my cuttings under artificial light.  I realize that it's apples-to-oranges, but once the cutting begins to leaf out I keep the plants as close as possible to the bulbs, inches away.  If the roots are poorly developed or the leaves show any wilting, I'll cover the cutting in a plastic bag (with a small vent hole).  That helps maintain high humidity, reducing the risk of drying out the leavers.  If the roots are well developed and there's no wilting, I'll remove the bag expecting that the roots can keep the leaves hydrated. The lights are on 16 hours a day.  All of this works well.

Given good humidity and/or strong roots, I don't think the sun can be too strong.  More  light for more hours should mean stronger, bushier growth.

Subject: Pinch, cut, or stay the course? Replies: 24
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 323
 
FWIW, I agree with "leave it alone" and also with "cover the glass."

Can you add any more light?  I'd worry that mere window light in winter will produce lanky growth.

Subject: Bethlehem Black Cuttings? Replies: 7
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 336
 
see my pm

Subject: Cuttings need help Replies: 26
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 509
 
I've only started cuttings once (last winter) but I did a fair number (~60) and had pretty good success.

I agree with Pete.  I started mine in the dark.  Damp sphagnum moss in baggies, kept warm.  

I think that light encourages premature leaf growth.  

Subject: When Do Figs Become Ever-Hardy in Zone 6 Replies: 56
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 766
 
from the linked article:  

< In fact, it would be normal to consider that young and vigorous fig plants may be damaged or completely killed by ground frost, when temperatures drop to between -2 and -4°C. 

On the other hand, if it benefits from protection during the first years and succeeds in developing, the fig tree may easily resist temperatures of between -15° and -17°C, and even less for some varieties, when planted in very good locations (-18°C at least). >>

So assuming that this is correct, here is the paradox -- young / non-dormant figs will be killed at -2 to -4C (23 - 28F); older, dormant figs can survive -15 to -17C (1 - 5F) our even lower for good varieties in good locations (0F "at least").  

The words "may easily resist" seem optimistic.  But basic point seems right, given observations here.

One last point:  The article points out that the amount of water that a fig receives late in the growing season impacts its vulnerability.  So we should all interpret our experience through the lens of water received or applied, naturally or artificially.   

Subject: When Do Figs Become Ever-Hardy in Zone 6 Replies: 56
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 766
 
TJ -- I didn't mean to imply any put-down.  I'm in exactly the same boat as you, just trying to learn from our collective experience.  I appreciate your observations.

Subject: When Do Figs Become Ever-Hardy in Zone 6 Replies: 56
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 766
 
TorontoJoe -- The questions are well put.  Now we need someone who actually knows something! :)

Subject: When Do Figs Become Ever-Hardy in Zone 6 Replies: 56
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 766
 
Seconding what TorontoJoe says, the potted figs in my friend's unheated detached garage must get down to ~10F or lower when the outside air temp is -15F, which is a level reached last winter.  Yet in April, I bought one each of the following from her -- Takoma Violet, Sal's EL, Brooklyn White, Nordland, O'Rourke, and Smith -- once she had unpacked them from the garage.  Not only did they all thrive but they all also produced ripe figs.

Was it not cold enough for the branches or roots to freeze?

Subject: Is Danny's Delight and Desert King the same Fig? Replies: 16
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 655
 
Dennis -- OK, agreed.  The way you wrote, I thought you were taking the red center as confirmation.

Subject: When Do Figs Become Ever-Hardy in Zone 6 Replies: 56
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 766
 
<< when roots freeze . . . . >>

Doug --

Dormancy reduces moisture in roots and branches.  So it takes lower temperatures to cause a damaging freeze in a dormant plant.  

Variations in damage to roots would seem to depend on:

1.  How dormant is the fig tree?
      a.  How readily does the variety shed moisture in preparation for winter?  This may be one major variable determining cold hardiness.
      b.  How well did growing conditions help prepare the fig tree for winter?  For example, was it consistently 50-60F or 30-40F before temperatures dropped to 20F?  

This may be the bigger issue in warmer growing areas like yours.

2.  How cold is the soil?  The earth is a huge heat sink.  It takes consistently cold weather to lower soil temperatures much below the surface because warmth is continuously migrating from deeper levels.  So one day at 0F may be inconsequential for soil temperature; one week might matter.

This may be a bigger issue in colder growing areas like mine.  

Of course, a pot stored in an unheated garage doesn't benefit much from the relative warmth of the earth.  But given observations of growers who store potted figs in unheated garages, it seems that the roots of fully dormant figs might be able to tolerate temperatures approaching 0F.  

Subject: Is Danny's Delight and Desert King the same Fig? Replies: 16
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 655
 
Lattarula (which may be the same as Italian Honey) has a yellow center.  But there's a fig named "Lattarola" (with an "o") that has a red center.

Subject: When Do Figs Become Ever-Hardy in Zone 6 Replies: 56
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 766
 
ADelmanto -- That's great info and a sensible conclusion.  Thx.

Subject: When Do Figs Become Ever-Hardy in Zone 6 Replies: 56
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 766
 
<< What kills them the most are the dissecating winds that freeze burn them. >>

Rio -- yes, this makes sense.  Thx.  At some point, cold per se may kill.  But the dormant fig, protected from wind and sun, seems much tougher than many people think.

<< If you can grow fig trees in zone 5, good for you! >>

As Rio said, no offense intended.  It's just that you made a very strong assertion that was inconsistent with what I've observed.  I wouldn't want potential fig growers in the northern U.S. and Canada to be discouraged needlessly.

Subject: When Do Figs Become Ever-Hardy in Zone 6 Replies: 56
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 766
 
<< The roots can not freeze and live.
The root ball needs to be below the frost line or depth of dirt that
freezes each year.
It was 36" frost line in ohio, 6" frost line in South Carolina. >>

Chester --

I'm sorry, but I can't believe that this is right.  I'll offer two observations.  First, I have a friend who has hundreds of figs in pots, which she overwinters in an unheated detached garage.  She lives in Z5b, where winter lows reach -10 F or worse.  The root balls in her garage freeze solid.  Sometimes they are still frozen in late April when she takes the pots outside.  She loses some plants, but the vast majority of her collection survives (otherwise there'd be no collection).  Second, the frost line here in Z5-6 reaches, as you note, many feet below the ground.  The ground is frozen solid.  I doubt that there is much of a root system below the frost line.   

To the contrary, I think that the earth is a huge heat sink that prevents the ground from getting much below 30F.  So figs in frozen ground are protected against really low temperatures.  Hence plants that die due top exposure tent to die down to the ground but no further.  Plenty of other plants survive frozen root balls, why not figs?  

I realize that there is a bit of a disconnect between my observations here and the experience of some growers.  It's still a bit of a mystery to me.  The one thing I know for sure is that my friend's figs are deeply dormant before / during / and briefly after the root balls freeze.  Achieving dormancy before really cold weather hits and maintaining dormancy while cold weather persists seems key. 
 

Subject: When Do Figs Become Ever-Hardy in Zone 6 Replies: 56
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 766
 

At the risk of jinxing myself:  I protect my in-ground plants well against winter wind and sun; but while I provide light insulation, I provide no artificial heat.  The only relative warmth comes from the earth.  With this system, I've had 6 varieties survive roughly -5 F (Z6 norm) for 1-3 winters.  So my guess is that a fully dormant, cold hardy variety can survive temperatures well below 15-20 F if it is protected from both cold wind and hot sun (early emergence).   

Subject: Best Varieties for Zone 5a/4b Replies: 10
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 279
 
IMO, zone5figger gave you great advice.  These are four cold-hardy, early varieties.  .xenil's other suggestions are also hardy but a little later.  FWIW, I've kept Florea, RdB, Marseilles Black and Hardy Chicago in-ground (protected) over 2-3 winters here (Z6B) with minimal damage.  I planted Malta Black this year, so this winter will be a test; and I'm starting cuttings of Improved Celeste.  But its colder where you are, so you may find it tougher.

The good news is that all of these varieties are early enough that if they die back to the ground, you'll probably still get figs.  FYI, ALL "common figs" produce the main crop on new wood.

But don't plant DK outside.  It's a San Pedro fig that only produces brebas in our part of the world.  Brebas are born on old wood.  Even if the plant survives, the breba buds probably won't.  You could, however, keep DK in a pot that you shelter each winter.  That's what I do.

Subject: Best Figs for Michigan Replies: 33
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 4,146
 
Which varieties bombed?  What should the northern grower avoid?

Subject: Col de Dama de Ciutat vs. Col de Dama Negra de Ciutat Replies: 2
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 160
 
"de ciutat" would be Catalan for "of/from the city."  Does it just mean locally grown?

Subject: Winter prep Replies: 11
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 167
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklikestofish
~what varieties i am in zone 6 i insulted my shed ,the first year i ran an electric heater in there with thermostat ,kept temps around 40 * F ,then i experimented i did not heat at all last year ,results were exactly the same as heated year before,so i don't heat them anymore.i even had desert king and kathleen black,vdb etc in there so they were fine + i have a few diff. mt etnas they were fine to.


Chuck -- How cold did it get, unheated?  This would be great data on the cold-tolerance of varieties when protected from wind and sun in winter.

Subject: Winter prep Replies: 11
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 167
 
imo, 25F would be no problem.  The question would be whether the attached garage gets too warm in March/April, so plants come out of dormancy too soon.  Them they would be very vulnerable to cold. 

Subject: Winterizing Outdoor Fig Trees - Zone 6 Replies: 6
Posted By: jrdewhirst Views: 197
 
I feel very confident that the babies would be fine.  Putting my money where my mouth is, I've got roughly 40 1-yr old cuttings (also without leaves) in SIPs in my driveway, deliberately exposed to cold weather to drive them into deep dormancy.  They've already endured 31F once or twice.  I'm not putting them in the garage until the forecast says 28F or lower.

That said, there are lots of people participating in this forum who have way more experience than me.  They come from PA, OH, NY, NJ, WV, MA, RI, etc.  Let's see what they say.

p.s.  If you haven't done it already, cut back on water.  The pots should be slightly damp, not soggy.